highaltitude.log.20211114

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[02:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Lw2edm_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Lw2edm_chase
[02:21] <SpacenearUS> New position from 034FSKTEST after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=4FSKTEST
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[02:41] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BSS41 after 0315 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BSS41
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[08:28] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IDA-4FSK after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IDA-4FSK
[08:31] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SQ3GJS after 0321 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SQ3GJS
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[09:02] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP3IZN-4FSK after 035 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP3IZN-4FSK
[09:19] <ly2en> lol what a disclaimer
[09:20] <ly2en> that's when my 13yrs of german in the school pays off
[09:23] <bertrik> aerologischer Aufstieggespann, nice
[09:23] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SA6BSS-7 after 036 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SA6BSS-7
[09:23] <SA6BSS-Mike> woo
[09:23] <SA6BSS-Mike> lets see where it is :)
[09:24] <SA6BSS-Mike> custom balloon, first lap, check :)
[09:25] <SA6BSS-Mike> ly2en: ad this to yoyr git, packges to install pip install psycopg2
[09:25] <SA6BSS-Mike> wspr to habhub
[09:27] <SA6BSS-Mike> forget it, its there in "requirements.txt" :)
[09:27] <SA6BSS-Mike> me blind
[09:29] <PE2BZ> SA6BSS-Mike, congrats on the DIY first lap :-)
[09:30] <SA6BSS-Mike> tnx :)
[09:41] <MikeTango> good morning
[09:42] <MikeTango> ly2en: I absolutely have no idea why they would want the sondes back after telling the finder in the first sentence that it has served its purpose and is to be discarded
[09:42] <MikeTango> "if you cannot dispose of it properly, mail it half way across germany and we will throw it in the trash for you"
[09:43] <eor> https://www.weather.gov/upperair/radiosonde
[09:43] <eor> the NWS claims "it can be sent back to the NWS where it may be refurbished and flown again, lowering the cost of the weather balloon program."
[09:44] <eor> I highly doubt that though...
[09:44] <VK5QI> yeah, i doubt they ever refurb the LMS6's
[09:44] <VK5QI> they are PITA to pull apart
[09:45] <VK5QI> and the RS41s they are launching dont say to return
[09:45] <MikeTango> the O3 attachments do get refurbd
[09:45] <eor> well, regardless of the model, the sensors are basically toast once they've hit the ground
[09:45] <VK5QI> yeah
[09:45] <VK5QI> MikeTango: here in australia they don't. not enough personnel to refurb them
[09:45] <VK5QI> they do offer a reward for returning them (AUD$50, not enough to cover fuel in most cases)
[09:46] <MikeTango> and in germany, we have so many flights per day that there is actually a decent chance of finding one randomly
[09:46] <MikeTango> we calculated that over the course of the life of radiosondy.info there would be one every 6 km around IdarOberstein
[09:47] <MikeTango> https://radiosondy.info/maps/web_map.php?startplace=Idar-Oberstein+%28DE%29&launch_site_map=1 and zoom in to the bubble with the most sondes
[09:48] <MikeTango> also, VK5QI when did you plan to publish the multi-station/weekday hack?
[09:48] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SQ4IXR-14_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SQ4IXR-14_chase
[09:49] <VK5QI> MikeTango: uhh, i'm not?
[09:49] <MikeTango> i spent the better part of yesterday writing that and then you pull an already finished thing out of your hat
[09:49] <VK5QI> i mean, i hacked it up
[09:49] <VK5QI> a while ago
[09:49] <VK5QI> i kind of forgot i had it, its just been sitting there in the background doing my horus predictions
[09:49] <MikeTango> then telling ppl to use that one instead
[09:49] <VK5QI> i wouldnt say its 'release ready'
[09:49] <VK5QI> i'm just saying its a bunch of code that might prove useful if someone wants to write something cleaner
[09:50] <MikeTango> same here
[09:50] <VK5QI> i didnt really write it for release, e.g. the sites are harcoded into the file. ideally they would be in some separate config file
[09:50] <MikeTango> at least i learned something about nesting conditions
[09:51] <MikeTango> i released it despite the german/dutch sonde hunters being sometimes rather competetive
[09:51] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03kc3fxx_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=kc3fxx_chase
[09:52] <VK5QI> i mean, we've had launch sire predictions on sondehub for a while now
[09:52] <MikeTango> you even managed to squeeze the burst delta into it
[09:52] <VK5QI> click on site, click 'generate predictions'
[09:53] <VK5QI> and instead of guessing the parameters, for most sites its making use of historical data
[09:53] <MikeTango> ah yes
[09:53] <MikeTango> those are absolutely not accurate
[09:53] <MikeTango> here's why
[09:53] <MikeTango> if 99 balloons make it to 35000
[09:53] <MikeTango> and one only to 1500
[09:54] <MikeTango> that makes the mean go down a lot
[09:54] <VK5QI> there's this thing called a median
[09:54] <MikeTango> which is the value literally in the middle of the field
[09:54] <MikeTango> which is still not discarding the many many outliers
[09:55] <VK5QI> there's also a button on there saying 'know more about this site? click here!'
[09:55] <VK5QI> so people who know more information can suggest fixes
[09:55] <VK5QI> i suggest using that button if you have good information
[09:55] <MikeTango> well, i guess that's why i write here
[09:56] <VK5QI> sure, but writing here doesnt help much
[09:56] <VK5QI> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfIbBSQMZOXpNE4VpK4BqUbKDPCWCDgU9QxYgmhh-JD-JGSsQ/viewform?usp=pp_url&entry.796606853=Modify+Existing+Site&entry.749833526=10304&entry.675505431=Meppen+(Germany)&entry.1613779787=52.7156,7.3175&entry.753148337=21&entry.1897602989=23687&entry.267462486=4.9
[09:56] <VK5QI> wow that link is big lol
[09:56] <MikeTango> well, the "contribute" part says we're on LC in #highaltitude
[09:57] <VK5QI> anyway, now i'm telling you where you can help contribute information about a site :-)
[09:58] <MikeTango> that's a general problem
[09:58] <MikeTango> not a site-specific one
[09:58] <VK5QI> interestingly for meppen i think we're abotu right
[09:58] <MikeTango> Meppen is very consistent
[09:58] <VK5QI> though the burst altitude does have a pretty big spread
[09:58] <MikeTango> that's because they have 2 balloon types
[09:58] <VK5QI> there's not 2 distinct lines there
[09:59] <VK5QI> just a kind of blur between 19km and 27km
[09:59] <MikeTango> they have one that pops at 25000-ish and the regular 33000-ish one
[09:59] <VK5QI> interestingly i dont see any data above 30k for meppen
[09:59] <VK5QI> but i am looking at dta that ends mid augist
[09:59] <MikeTango> that one is rare
[09:59] <VK5QI> august*
[09:59] <MikeTango> i discarded it as outliers
[09:59] <MikeTango> for a hunt there i assume 25000 as the furthest throw
[09:59] <VK5QI> i see 3 datapoints that are above 30km, roughly one a month in the range im looking at
[10:00] <VK5QI> i need to grab the last few months out of the db and add that in
[10:00] <MikeTango> Ukkel and Bilt have high burst alts but very, very inconsistent sink rates
[10:01] <MikeTango> the o3 goes up to 35km and then it depends on whether the intern packed the chute or someone else
[10:01] <MikeTango> Essen goes out of the auto launcher and you can set your watch by those values
[10:01] <VK5QI> oh wow
[10:01] <VK5QI> look at the spread on the descent rate on de bilt
[10:01] <MikeTango> yes
[10:01] <MikeTango> you know why?
[10:01] <VK5QI> burst is pretty good though
[10:01] <MikeTango> they have 2 chutes
[10:02] <MikeTango> so it's either 2.5 at touchdown, 4-5ish....or Acme Anvil
[10:02] <VK5QI> im seeing a bit more spread than that
[10:02] <VK5QI> but yeah
[10:02] <MikeTango> (and Bilt also throws regular sondes and an extra o3 on thursdays)
[10:03] <VK5QI> the burst altitudes are pretty good around 33km
[10:03] <MikeTango> so if you cut out the thursday 13?Z one, you'll have values for rs41 only
[10:03] <VK5QI> like... for forward predictions im not really sure how to do much better this
[10:03] <VK5QI> its 'good enough' to decide if you should be chasing or not
[10:04] <VK5QI> fyi im using this: https://github.com/projecthorus/sondehub-analysis
[10:04] <VK5QI> i need to update that though, since we started running reverse predictions and assigning sondes to launch sites on as telemetry comes in
[10:05] <VK5QI> so for the last month or so, the binning of sondes to launch site bit can be skipped
[10:06] <MikeTango> 99% of the time the prediction is good enough
[10:06] <MikeTango> the germans have a tighter model somewhere
[10:06] <MikeTango> but that would be overkill
[10:07] <VK5QI> ok, main tracker got updated to predict out to the extent of the model
[10:07] <VK5QI> instead of just 7 predictions
[10:07] <MikeTango> one very interesting line that i would love to see
[10:08] <MikeTango> how the first prediction and the actual flight path compare
[10:08] <VK5QI> interestinyl we actually save all prediction data now
[10:08] <VK5QI> so that would be possible
[10:08] <MikeTango> i take screenshots for that
[10:08] <VK5QI> we have it in the sondehub db..
[10:08] <VK5QI> will have to check how to query that
[10:09] <VK5QI> i think the API docs need updating..
[10:10] <MikeTango> nice
[10:10] <VK5QI> ahh i think its in the db, but we havent exposed an API for it yet
[10:10] <VK5QI> the Opensearch cluster is publically available though
[10:11] <MikeTango> just having it on the chasemapper would be awesome
[10:11] <VK5QI> but yeah, thats an interesting diagnostic tool
[10:11] <VK5QI> hrm
[10:11] <VK5QI> i guess you kind of want a 'freeze current prediction' option
[10:11] <VK5QI> i did write some code to analyse the log file that chasemapper saves for that purpose btw
[10:12] <MikeTango> as well as having a square of probability
[10:12] <VK5QI> the log_parse.py script in chasemapper will parse a log file and plot out the error in the predictions throughout the flight
[10:12] <MikeTango> min/max burst height vs min/max fall speed
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[10:13] <VK5QI> i think i had something in there to compare the observed wind vector to the GFS model too
[10:13] <VK5QI> i havent used that script in a long time though
[10:15] <PE2BZ> Chrischan, any idea why IDA switched to a not so smart frequency ?
[10:16] <SA6BSS-Mike> probably more web sdr ?
[10:16] <SA6BSS-Mike> to be able to track out of range?
[10:17] <SA6BSS-Mike> but its out od ism ?
[10:17] <PE2BZ> 433.100 would not be my advice.... Over our country that is common 24/7 telemetry, 12.5 kHz wide :-(
[10:17] <PE2BZ> It[ LPD (Low Power Device) range over here.
[10:18] <VK5QI> finding a frequency which is going to be ok anywhere is going to be difficult
[10:18] <SA6BSS-Mike> 433.05434.79 MHz is ism so ok in that regard
[10:37] <PE2BZ> VK5QI, agreed, but for a signal which fits into 3 kHz bandwidth we do suggest a 6.25 kHz step to get out of the rounded ¨cheap¨ frequencies
[10:39] <VK5QI> i mean, you could just pick an arbitraty 1 kHz frequency :P
[10:47] <PE2BZ> But, otoh :-)
[10:47] <PE2BZ> https://imgur.com/YlgE1Er
[10:47] <PE2BZ> 2400 Hz BW, and a notch on the 2.4 kHz ¨fm¨ carrier
[10:47] <SA6BSS-Mike> good thing letting a wspr payload run low solar angles, taking advantage of Greyzoone conds
[10:47] <SA6BSS-Mike> 2021-11-14 10:44 SA6BSS 14.097170 -26 -2 NN05 +23 0.200 LX1DQ JN39cq 5390 3349 WSPR-2 2021-11-14 10:44 SA6BSS 14.097114 -25 -1 NN05 +23 0.200 SWL NL42en 2635 1637 WSPR-2 2021-11-14 10:44 SA6BSS 14.097176 -20 -1 NN05 +23 0.200 VK4CT
[10:48] <VK5QI> PE2BZ: heh
[10:49] <SA6BSS-Mike> 3 + 11000km spots on öast over :)
[10:49] <PE2BZ> 2 times 5m03 ?
[10:49] <SA6BSS-Mike> https://www.wsprnet.org/olddb?mode=html&band=all&limit=50&findcall=sa6bss+&findreporter=&sort=date
[10:49] <PE2BZ> Excellent results !
[10:50] <SA6BSS-Mike> solar down below 2° !
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[10:52] <SA6BSS-Mike> I let it fire up at any slot tx standard folowed by tele
[10:54] <SA6BSS-Mike> 1 pic is worth 1000 word :) https://imgur.com/a/QYsARn9
[10:55] <VK5QI> hehe
[10:56] <PE2BZ> VK5QI, find the 4fsk ;-) https://imgur.com/cQdS5WM
[10:56] <VK5QI> hahaha
[10:57] <VK5QI> that's what the software is for
[10:57] <SA6BSS-Mike> I see it :)
[10:57] <PE2BZ> 100 xp ;-)
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[11:27] <ly2en> SA6BSS-Mike: i've put everything into requirements.txt, pip install -r requirements.txt
[11:27] <SA6BSS-Mike> yeah, I saw that :)
[11:27] <ly2en> needs testing now
[11:27] <SA6BSS-Mike> now lets see why I get File "C:\Users\i5\Dropbox\hab_wspr\run.py", line 319, in <module> sleeping = sleeptime - int(datetime.datetime.now().strftime('%s')) % sleeptime ValueError: Invalid format string
[11:28] <SA6BSS-Mike> il play with it, I see I have a few uppdates to install...
[11:29] <ly2en> from wspr web the spots are late 4-6 mins
[11:29] <ly2en> compared to timescaledb
[11:30] <SA6BSS-Mike> if I mark out line 319 it runs but it runs "all" the time , no sleep
[11:31] <SA6BSS-Mike> but it "works" hm, Il play some and see if I get going
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[11:32] <Chrischan> PE2BZ zoals SA6BSS-Mike terecht vermoedt, gaat het om WEBsdr om de tracering gaande te houden. Maar kan de frequentie op elk moment wijzigen als dit nodig lijkt. De 433.10 waren slechts een eerste resultaat in de zoektocht naar een geschikte frequentie (:
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[11:39] <VK5QI> SA6BSS-Mike: you could remove the datetime bit in there and replace it with time.time()
[11:39] <SA6BSS-Mike> rr, testing
[11:39] <VK5QI> makes me wonder what the 'sleeptime' variable is
[11:39] <VK5QI> if its a string, python coudl be interpreting that "% sleeptime " as tryin gto format something
[11:39] <SA6BSS-Mike> time between the programlooks for nrew spots in the wspr db
[11:40] <VK5QI> and its an integer?
[11:40] <SA6BSS-Mike> original 60 sec, Il have it set for 75 sec
[11:40] <SA6BSS-Mike> it works on my other fork of the script, probably just missing something simple
[11:41] <VK5QI> >>> sleeptime = 75
[11:41] <VK5QI> >>> sleeptime - time.time() % sleeptime
[11:41] <VK5QI> 9.217306852340698
[11:44] <SA6BSS-Mike> hm, seems to work!
[11:44] <SA6BSS-Mike> thats thesleeptime - time.time() % sleeptime made it :)
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[11:50] <PE2BZ> Chrischan, understood, but both 433.100 and 434.660 are in the ISM band, for which is not that much coverage in the openwebrx or websdr scene. OpenwebRX should have the ISM band as default profile added. there are a lot of users just running the default 144 MHz and 438 MHz repeater band, even if they have local repeaters on 430 MHz. But I would advise to stick to frequencies on 12.5 kHz raster, like 433.1125, or 433.1375 and so on, to give you just
[11:50] <PE2BZ> enough space outside the telemetry channels at the rounded frequencies.
[11:54] Nick change: Trieste_ -> Trieste
[11:55] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03N4XWC-1 after 0313 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N4XWC-1
[11:55] <Chrischan> PE2BZ Bedankt voor de hint, ik zal dat in de gaten houden en eventueel veranderen.
[11:57] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03DH3SUP-4FSK after 0316 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DH3SUP-4FSK
[12:03] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Lw2edm_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Lw2edm_chase
[12:03] <PE2BZ> Chrischan, Danke !
[12:06] <ly2en> SA6BSS-Mike: if successful, please put it on github too
[12:10] <SA6BSS-Mike> ok; il put it on my git in a sec
[12:14] <SA6BSS-Mike> https://github.com/micked99?tab=repositories
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[12:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Jantar_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Jantar_chase
[12:28] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SQ6TW_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SQ6TW_chase
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[13:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03K4PRM-5 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K4PRM-5
[13:12] <ly2en> SA6BSS-Mike: I'm surprised you're not using some of the git features
[13:12] <ly2en> would be easier to handle it with forks/pr but I don't mind picking it by hand :)
[13:13] <ly2en> will also need to incorporate changes from reganhimself
[13:16] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KD0HIP-7 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD0HIP-7
[13:24] <SpacenearUS> New position from 034FSKTEST after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=4FSKTEST
[13:37] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03GAS-2 after 034 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=GAS-2
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[14:28] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP3IZN-11 after 0315 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP3IZN-11
[14:30] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03W3EAX-9 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W3EAX-9
[14:31] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03W3EAX-12 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W3EAX-12
[14:31] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03W3EAX-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W3EAX-11
[14:31] <SA6BSS-Mike> ly2en: I use it mainly as a backup and to point interested people to the files
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[14:35] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03W3EAX-8 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W3EAX-8
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[14:51] <ly2en> got Q_0% telemetry today consistent with sunlight but no main call spots
[14:51] <ly2en> SA6BSS-Mike: if you don't mind i will diff the changes and raise a pull request to myself :)
[14:53] <SA6BSS-Mike> :) ofc not, you go ahead!
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[16:43] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03WSHAB2 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WSHAB2
[17:07] <ly2en> SA6BSS-Mike: ok updated the pull request to SM0ULC-David
[17:07] <ly2en> https://github.com/sm3ulc/hab-wspr/pull/7
[17:07] <ly2en> https://github.com/sm3ulc/hab-wspr/pull/7/commits/989b89270382e3ac874df0d2be401ffc32a49271
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[18:09] <ly2en> SA6BSS-Mike: the reganhimself/hab-wspr is actually outdated :) David moved on with new features
[18:10] <SA6BSS-Mike> rr, it was the at the time only one I could get to work , so I simply continued using that
[18:10] <ly2en> does habhub have a test environment?
[18:11] <ly2en> so I can virtually fly a balloon like LY2EN-TEST
[18:11] <ly2en> and test this script on it ?
[18:12] <SA6BSS-Mike> nop
[18:12] <SA6BSS-Mike> not that I ever heard of anyway
[18:12] <ly2en> okay the script has a dry run mode so I can play with that I guess
[18:35] <SA6BSS-Mike> you can run gps sim if you have a hack-rf and a spare tracker
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[18:40] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SA6BSS-9 after 034 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SA6BSS-9
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[18:54] <ly2en> a lot of work to put up the tracker for actual transmission, else need another hf sdr to decode
[18:55] <ly2en> but yes, hackrf is the primary workhorse
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[19:15] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KG4SGP-11 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KG4SGP-11
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[23:19] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03N4XWC-1 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N4XWC-1
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[23:49] <F5RZC> Good Evening
[23:53] <Chrischan> Bonne nuit, merci beaucoup
[23:59] <F5RZC> Merci à vous aussi bien entendu.
[00:00] --- Mon Nov 15 2021