highaltitude.log.20210613

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[02:04] <SpacenearUS> New position from 034FSKTEST after 037 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=4FSKTEST
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[03:33] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03K4UAH-6 after 0313 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K4UAH-6
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[07:41] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BZ4a after 037 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BZ4a
[07:59] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP6QKM-4FSK after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6QKM-4FSK
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[08:53] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03W8VPV-1 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W8VPV-1
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[09:13] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP9UOB-P40 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP9UOB-P40
[09:32] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP9UOB-P28 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP9UOB-P28
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[09:53] <Guest60> hello
[09:53] <PE2BZ> Gm, or afternoon, or anything :-)
[09:53] <Guest60> i wanna ask question about tracking habballons without aprs
[09:54] <PE2BZ> Drop the question and hang around a bit till someone replies :-)
[09:54] <Guest60> yeah
[09:54] <Guest60> what possible source can take habitat server ?
[09:55] <Guest60> (without aprs) to display on tracking map
[09:56] <PE2BZ> habitat tracker map takes uploads from: dl-fldigi, Horus Gui, scripts converting wspr packets to payload strings and more
[09:58] <Guest60> thx for answer becouse is nice to know that i can be aprs station directly to habitat but...
[09:58] <Guest60> i want to use satelite system,i am not reach man haha but i have satelite phone
[09:59] <Guest60> as i good understand i must have script which send wspr packets to habitat ?
[10:00] <Guest60> (change format satelites data to wspr format) ?
[10:00] <PE2BZ> At the moment there is BZ4a on the map, which happens to be my tracker, released this morning. On my linux box there is a python script running to grab my telemetry, convert it to habhub string and push it to habhub. You have to make a payload doc which fits the contents of your string
[10:03] <Guest60> thx
[10:04] <Guest60> one more if i can
[10:05] <Guest60> Do you use respberry mission computer OR use script enter inside device ?
[10:06] <Guest60> device=gps,weather,connection system
[10:06] <Guest60> motorola,garmin,itd
[10:07] <bertrik> the node under the balloon is usually quite simple, just receives GPS coordinates, perhaps adds some other data, then transmits it
[10:08] <bertrik> sometimes there's a camera on board, video or photo, you can have something like a raspberry pi as a 'flight computer'
[10:09] <bertrik> but they don't transmit directly to the habitat server
[10:09] <Guest60> i tell you my plan
[10:10] <Guest60> 15 years ago i sent balloon with photo and altimeter,location on ground was by gps locator
[10:11] <Guest60> than was finacial crisis and i dont have time for it
[10:11] <Guest60> then enter aprs,arduino,raspberry and others....
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[10:12] <Guest60> i dont want use it, i want use satelite phone to send information
[10:12] <Guest60> i want to know what exatcly type of code i must send to habitat
[10:13] <Guest60> i respect that many use aprs mostly in europe but i want use ready device by companies like motorola garmin itd and send info by satelite phone
[10:14] <Guest60> aplication or script is possible for me and good info from you but what exactly code is need to habitat
[10:14] <Guest60> rtty or what data ?
[10:15] <Guest60> no problem if you dont know,i just working on sat phones ;)
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[10:17] <Guest60> this type transmission have also plus you can send also movie
[10:20] <bertrik> I wrote an application that bridges from LoRaWAN packets through TheThingsNetwork to the habitat system
[10:21] <bertrik> I could not find complete habhub API at the time, but what I did is described at https://revspace.nl/TTNHABBridge#Habitat_uploader
[10:21] <Guest60> i am also european :)
[10:22] <Guest60> nice, i searching know about lorawan packets
[10:22] <Guest60> now
[10:23] <Guest60> btw can you send video on your "system"
[10:23] <Guest60> ?
[10:23] <bertrik> no, telemetry only, bandwidth is extremely limited
[10:26] <Guest60> ssdv=dstv ?
[10:26] <Guest60> can you tell me ?
[10:29] <bertrik> no I don't know
[10:30] <Guest60> no problem
[10:31] <Guest60> i saw people in my country send images by dstv
[10:36] <Guest60> can you tell me what platform for your flight computer do you use ?
[10:36] <Guest60> raspberry st32 arduino ?
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[10:38] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SQ6NEI-4FSK after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SQ6NEI-4FSK
[10:39] <SQ6NEI> .approval52cd76aaf538fb18ccd896406690313a
[10:40] <Guest60> i see you speak here only about exactly question,no free speak :)
[10:46] Nick change: Guest60 -> HowSendTelemetri
[10:47] Nick change: HowSendTelemetri -> SendTeleSatPhone
[10:47] Nick change: SendTeleSatPhone -> SendTelemSatPhon
[10:47] <SendTelemSatPhon> now good please answer if sombody know later
[10:48] <SendTelemSatPhon> ths for answers at this moment
[10:48] <SendTelemSatPhon> thx
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[11:23] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03N4XWC-1 after 039 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N4XWC-1
[11:54] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IDA-4FSK after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IDA-4FSK
[11:58] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03EVA1 after 0320 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=EVA1
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[12:15] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 039A3ZI-4FSK - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=9A3ZI-4FSK
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[12:19] <SA6BSS-Mike> SendTelemSatPhon: might be of intereset http://52.209.169.204/hab/flight/2017/03/13/ubseds22.html
[12:26] <SendTelemSatPhon> thx i will look
[12:26] <SendTelemSatPhon> is that your flight ?
[12:30] <SendTelemSatPhon> i see that is private message,i will not tell nick ;)
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[13:28] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KI6RC-1 after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KI6RC-1
[13:28] <SendTelemSatPhon> i cant write in prv ; your advice is interesting but still problem is i want all transmision by satelite
[13:31] <SendTelemSatPhon> i have solution on it with using sat modem and flight computer
[13:31] <SendTelemSatPhon> but i still prefer to use ready branded device
[13:33] <SendTelemSatPhon> best will be additional hardware projected to satphone
[13:33] <SendTelemSatPhon> thx for advice
[13:39] <bertrik> I think the best system is where you have the device under the balloon as a relatively simple and low-power system, then send it through some network (aprs, rtty, lorawan, satellite), then have a system that picks the data up from the network and forwards it to the specific habhub protocols
[13:41] <SendTelemSatPhon> yes that will be by phonesat
[13:41] <SendTelemSatPhon> problem is this phone cant send telematic
[13:42] <SendTelemSatPhon> technical can but not real time,all time
[13:44] <SendTelemSatPhon> also standart send only possition,today i didnt find phonesat with meteo or other functions
[13:45] <SendTelemSatPhon> so in meritum must be conctucted device special to phone sat with other activity for hab
[13:45] <SendTelemSatPhon> contructed
[13:46] <bertrik> can you access the modem inside the phone sat, to send your own byte payload, for example?
[13:47] <SendTelemSatPhon> today i can send only one time possition
[13:47] <SendTelemSatPhon> it's rescue function for travelers
[13:48] <SendTelemSatPhon> but still not altitude or meteo
[13:49] <SendTelemSatPhon> as i said i am thinking about controler which take data from gps with meteo sensor
[13:49] <SendTelemSatPhon> and send (by cable) to phone sat
[13:51] <SendTelemSatPhon> no radio (analog) and no flighjt computer just sensor
[13:51] <SendTelemSatPhon> controler soryy
[13:53] <SendTelemSatPhon> all controlers i found is projected to radio 43x.xxx
[13:53] <SendTelemSatPhon> not for phone sat,but who dont try,never will be first...
[13:55] <SendTelemSatPhon> to say something new in this case : this option have also one good point
[13:56] <Suterusu> If t'was me, I'd be lookin for ways to flash the phone's firmware so y'can use that as the microcontroller to sample the sensor data and tx the payload .... But it's sounding far easier to use an iridium link or something, if you need constant feedback - are prepared to pay for it - and are insistent on using satts
[13:56] <SendTelemSatPhon> thx for answer
[13:58] <SendTelemSatPhon> you have good idea man i asked about it in operators sat
[13:59] <Suterusu> Far, far cheaper will be using radio to move the payload data ... though that might require waiting until it gets in range of a receiver. Fortunately, these folks here seem to have a lot, collectively, that cover most populated places...
[13:59] <SendTelemSatPhon> as you said for money they can make localizator in sat version
[14:00] <SendTelemSatPhon> so is real today but is done all system by them not for me ...
[14:01] <SendTelemSatPhon> Suterusu you can use flight comptuer and modem sat and send normal info
[14:02] <SendTelemSatPhon> to laptop or gsm phone
[14:02] <SendTelemSatPhon> but best option is make controler for satphone
[14:03] <SendTelemSatPhon> ;)
[14:03] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03VE3OCL-19 after 036 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VE3OCL-19
[14:03] <SendTelemSatPhon> OR try to make firmware in satphone
[14:03] <SendTelemSatPhon> like you said
[14:04] <bertrik> maybe the phone has some kind of data link, where you can send the equivalent of an SMS or something like that
[14:04] <bertrik> I think modifying the phone firmware is a few orders of magnitude more difficult, might also get you in trouble with regulations
[14:04] <Suterusu> Using iridium or common extra-terrestrial carrier would put it straight onto the intelliwebs. You can then either serve the data from where it is - but transmitting it to somewhere to be collected probably more responsive and consume less power. Using the phone is likely heavier, eats more power and offers little in the way of advantages that I can see.
[14:08] <SendTelemSatPhon> yeah
[14:08] <Suterusu> ie, something like: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13745 coupled with a £2 arduino nano or something ...
[14:09] <Suterusu> Probably not the lightest solution available - especially once you've factored in some sort of power supply - but I wager it'll weigh less than the phone...
[14:10] <SendTelemSatPhon> good option
[14:12] <SendTelemSatPhon> what software do you suggested to use for additional sensors ?
[14:13] <Suterusu> I'd still suggest radio ... for what spend on the sat comms hardware, and then 'line' rental to actually use it you could deploy more than one baloon - if you mimic, say the 50 meter extending antenna system on Voyager - you can deploy a uch much larger antenna once you achieve a decent altitude ... between range extension tricks thus and the network of listeners globally, you should be able to get the data back from most places
[14:14] <Suterusu> For 'additional sensors' I'd just cram 'em into the 'duino ... it has a few spare pins for GPIO, i2C, and the other common protocol what escapes me recollect
[14:15] <Suterusu> Them nano is small, light and cheap enough to use multiple if required - but things like i2C can 'daisy chain' if the devices have different addresses...
[14:18] <SendTelemSatPhon> you give me wise advices but i tell you what is my target
[14:18] <SendTelemSatPhon> i want to transmit video live
[14:19] <SendTelemSatPhon> about get data is better for me if wont be on aprs maps....
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[14:20] <SendTelemSatPhon> if in future make interesting fly i can ofcourse make stream on you tube or others with map locaton
[14:20] <Suterusu> Heavy on bandwidth .... I'd not expect most satphones to keep up - but I've not played with any in well over a decade .... The satellite system itself is an issue for video, time taken to bounce the signal etc...
[14:21] <SendTelemSatPhon> i am just not radio man,i am telecomunication man
[14:21] <SendTelemSatPhon> and avio
[14:21] <bertrik> I think sending video over satphone will be extremely expensive
[14:22] <Suterusu> That too.
[14:22] <SendTelemSatPhon> yes,if you want do all fly yes
[14:22] <SendTelemSatPhon> but above 38 km and few min not
[14:22] <bertrik> raw audio is 64 kbps or so, compressed maybe 8 kbps, but I guess video is about 100x more bandwidth probably
[14:23] <Suterusu> Even if you only want to do a few seconds ... Most firms charge by the byte....
[14:23] <SendTelemSatPhon> right
[14:23] <bertrik> what people here often do, is store video on flash, then retrieve the balloon + flash cards after the flight
[14:25] <Suterusu> Basically from what I've seen, unless the vehicle is in the middle of the ocean, there should be a decent chance of it reaching a receiver run by someone in here... Questionable if you'll be able to fit so much data down available pipes, but you should be able to get some stuff moving towards you
[14:25] <SendTelemSatPhon> video is ofcourse final option
[14:25] <SendTelemSatPhon> not now
[14:28] <Suterusu> For moving video I was thinking about wider capacity links - Using 3G/4G modems springs to mind, avoid pairing to base station and 'just listen' ... the matching unit in the air 'just shouting' - bigger n better antenna on both etc
[14:29] <SendTelemSatPhon> what range can be on your 3g/4g in that option ?
[14:30] <SendTelemSatPhon> normal gsm base 700 m altitude and about 25 by land
[14:30] <SendTelemSatPhon> as i know
[14:30] <SendTelemSatPhon> 25km
[14:32] <Suterusu> I've not looked into it too heavily - or done any maffs - but I'm thinking COTS hardware is self-limited in terms of tx strength to avoid health and saftey issues ... we can adjust this and 'shout louder' to get a little more range (probably unlawful, but once it's in the air, stop me. In fact, prove it's mine) .... Most of the range in a 'common' setup is actually at the cellular mast end ... they have a much bigger, more power
[14:32] <Suterusu> ful transmitter - they boost the incoming signals too ...
[14:33] <Suterusu> That don't seem right, 700m up and 25km across .... To move across the wave bounces off the ionosphere... to get 1 meter across a milimeter wave is going to go up to the atmosphere a thousand times or so
[14:34] <SendTelemSatPhon> yes also about safety...
[14:34] <SendTelemSatPhon> in sat max is regulated by satelites and bases
[14:35] <SendTelemSatPhon> (i speak about legal modems)
[14:36] <SendTelemSatPhon> tell me both
[14:36] <SendTelemSatPhon> what maximimal altitude with live videou you know ?
[14:36] <SendTelemSatPhon> do you know ?
[14:37] <bertrik> strangely enough, transmit power is not the most important in balloon telemetry, range is hard limited by line-of-sight usually
[14:37] <bertrik> you can get sometimes 300 km range with only 25 mW of power
[14:38] <SendTelemSatPhon> sorry
[14:38] <SendTelemSatPhon> i asked about altitude not range
[14:38] <Suterusu> I've not seen musk offer nothing for telemetry purposes with his starlink yet - seems odd, just in getting the tesla fleet data home it seems sensible - but his birds are lower down, less latency - and he has more coverage than any competition atm AFAIK besides the polar orbits... I've not looked into his encoding methods etc, or what 'security features' are on his connection kits .... but jacking into that strikes me as viable to
[14:38] <Suterusu> o
[14:39] <Suterusu> To me, range is a bubble... a sphere ... it doesn't matter what direction it emits. Unless something is in the way to absorb/reflect it.
[14:40] <SendTelemSatPhon> possible but i am today "not on time"
[14:40] <SendTelemSatPhon> i stoped when was 2 km
[14:40] <SendTelemSatPhon> like in drons :)
[14:40] <SendTelemSatPhon> so please tell me one more time max altitude for normal systems in live video
[14:42] <SendTelemSatPhon> normal=popular
[14:43] <bertrik> the ceiling for HABs is around 30 km, maybe 35km max
[14:43] <SendTelemSatPhon> 35 km with video live ?
[14:43] <SendTelemSatPhon> that's great result
[14:43] <Suterusu> I don't think there's an 'altitude' limit for video, as much as a 'bandwidth' limit ... if you can fit a 1080p frame into say 35KB, and you need 30 frames per second on the feed that's just over 1MB/s you'll *need* to fit it down .... Range comes into play because the smaller the waveform, the more data you can cram in per second - a 31Mhz radio link possibly get the signal far enough but will move data too slow
[14:45] <Suterusu> A 315Mhz radio link will be able to fit more data into it, fast enough - but the smaller the wave the less it moves 'across' each bounce up to the ionosphere .... which is the longer distance of the travel, and where the energy gets mostly eaten. More bounces to cover a meter, the less meters it moves.
[14:45] <SA6BSS-Mike> and higher freq resquire highrt power and large antenna/parabolic reflector and there isnt any "free" freq /ism freq, maby if you have an amature radio license but still needs quite a lot of bandwith
[14:46] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP6NVX - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6NVX
[14:47] <SA6BSS-Mike> its not done reguarly if ever due to the problems of stransmitt the vido, most record localy and retrive the payload
[14:47] <bertrik> the radio methods currently used, like RTTY etc, typically use a modem over a radio channel with audio bandwidth, like 10 kHz max, so live video is not possible with the current telemetry infrastructure
[14:47] <Suterusu> Large antenna is suttin I see as 'easy' - especially if you don't actually extend it until you're 30klicks up and there's nothing to hit
[14:48] <Suterusu> As I saids earlier - steal the mechanism NASA used in Voyager - I wager you can mimic it with a 50m tape measure, a 'duino, a stepper motor, and a cunningly designed forming die
[14:52] <SendTelemSatPhon> interesting talk
[14:52] <SendTelemSatPhon> with 3 of you
[14:52] <Suterusu> Could probably 3D print most the mechanism for lightness... Whilst you're at it, print some larger carterigde/wheel to hold the tape measure and can use a £10 microwave's high voltage transformer to spot-weld 'em together lengthways and go much larger than 50 meters on the antenna
[14:54] <Suterusu> Though, by that point, I strongly suspect atmospheric conditions would pose a hazard to it's safety, even pointed straight down
[14:54] <SendTelemSatPhon> hard work
[14:54] <SendTelemSatPhon> with it
[14:54] <SendTelemSatPhon> btw two stratospheric balloons what system use?
[14:54] <Suterusu> lol, I bet that'd be easier than re-writing the firmware in the satphone ....
[14:55] <SendTelemSatPhon> i didnt check it
[14:55] <SendTelemSatPhon> Suterusu that's my point haha
[14:56] <SendTelemSatPhon> make own system but not from voyager
[14:56] <SendTelemSatPhon> ;)
[14:56] <Suterusu> I'm to understand the two largest limiting factors in range are tx power and antenna size .... Making a larger antenna is easy enough ...
[14:56] <SendTelemSatPhon> what system use baumgartner ?
[14:56] <Suterusu> More power is where the balloons struggle - needs to add more weight to achieve this.
[14:57] <SendTelemSatPhon> with video ?
[14:57] <SendTelemSatPhon> this famous redbull strothpere fly
[14:57] <SendTelemSatPhon> did they use radio or sat ?
[14:57] <SendTelemSatPhon> or second this man from google
[14:58] <Suterusu> I thought they picked it up when they got to the floor
[14:58] <SendTelemSatPhon> ?
[14:58] <SendTelemSatPhon> no it was on live
[14:58] <SendTelemSatPhon> 1 one sure
[14:58] <SendTelemSatPhon> i think they use satelite
[14:58] <Suterusu> As in, they just had a common gopro camera, set it going 12 hrs into the flight when they got up there - and jumped .... put it online when they got to the floor.
[14:59] <SendTelemSatPhon> but they have extre budget for this
[15:00] <SendTelemSatPhon> as i know it was live video
[15:00] <Suterusu> They'd of had the money for a satlink in the balloon - but that would of got 12 hours of boring slow ascent footage, then 3 seconds of matey hopping out the door .... Pretty sure bloke on the way down was using a gopro .... Especially moving that fast 12s into his descent I'd expect errors in the reception/transmission
[15:01] <SendTelemSatPhon> but nothing special if with space station they also speak live video
[15:01] <SendTelemSatPhon> live stream is more exactly
[15:01] <SendTelemSatPhon> they have few time errors
[15:01] <Suterusu> ISS goes across NASA's DSN - Deep Space Network ... there's a collection of massive dishes on the ground, and the station is always in the range of a few
[15:01] <SendTelemSatPhon> bye few seconds
[15:01] <SendTelemSatPhon> by
[15:02] <Suterusu> You can pick up ISS with a realtek SDR, BTW
[15:02] <SendTelemSatPhon> wait, when falling was on gopro
[15:03] <SA6BSS-Mike> you can picup iss with handheld baufeng with its small stock antenna :)
[15:03] <SendTelemSatPhon> ascent and in "space" was live
[15:03] <SA6BSS-Mike> tested and working :)
[15:03] <Suterusu> Iunno about 'in space' - though I'd not quibble much about 'edge of'
[15:04] <SendTelemSatPhon> "in near space"
[15:04] <SendTelemSatPhon> my mistake
[15:04] <SA6BSS-Mike> 1/3 to the edge of space
[15:04] <Suterusu> ISS qualifies as in space ... but it's still suffering atmospheric drag .... just really really thin atmosphere...
[15:04] <SendTelemSatPhon> still most near man to speace withou using rocket :)
[15:04] <bertrik> balloons go up to 35 km or so, space starts at 100 km, ISS is at 400-something km
[15:04] <SA6BSS-Mike> iss ofc in space
[15:05] <SA6BSS-Mike> exactly
[15:05] <Suterusu> Not sure about that ... pretty confident there's been sub-orbital with ramjets...
[15:07] <SendTelemSatPhon> i dont understand one thing
[15:08] <SA6BSS-Mike> lol, it can carry away sideways sometimes :)
[15:09] <SendTelemSatPhon> deep space network have many station on ground
[15:09] <SendTelemSatPhon> do space station have suitable on their station ?
[15:10] <Suterusu> Um, whut?
[15:10] <SendTelemSatPhon> to ask easier ...
[15:10] <SendTelemSatPhon> does space station have also strong radio system like deep space network ?
[15:11] <SendTelemSatPhon> has
[15:11] <SendTelemSatPhon> i didnt see many antenas on space station
[15:12] <SA6BSS-Mike> only think the iss have antennas for local, iss-eart com and and a 144Mhz for amature use
[15:12] <Suterusu> https://www.nasa.gov/archive/directorates/heo/scan/services/networks/dsn/ « Little more information on it » www.nasa.gov/directorates/heo/scan/services/networks/deep_space_network/
[15:12] <Suterusu> There's antenna on ISS - probably didn't notice them because there's many bigger things to look at.
[15:13] <Suterusu> Like the coolant arrays
[15:13] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DG2FS-1 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DG2FS-1
[15:13] <SendTelemSatPhon> i believe,it was curious question
[15:18] <Suterusu> https://issfanclub.eu/iss-antennas/
[15:19] <SendTelemSatPhon> nice thx
[15:19] <Suterusu> https://i0.wp.com/issfanclub.eu/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Panoramic2.jpeg shows the actual positioning .... As mentioned, you was probably busy looking at something else
[15:22] <SendTelemSatPhon> Ham TV DATV
[15:23] <Suterusu> I don't see mention of a few links, so there's more antenna too
[15:23] <SendTelemSatPhon> i though they have better system :)
[15:23] <SendTelemSatPhon> for respect for radio people but they are on space station !!!
[15:26] <Suterusu> There's no mention of how long ago that was placed there.... Equipment that gets to there generally isn't new to begin with - they have to test it'll survive being launched, then survive the radiation prone environment etc - so by the time it actually gets up there it is likely old before they launched. The major exception there is a few, personal, laptops the astronaut took up with them...
[15:27] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD0AWK-12 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD0AWK-12
[15:27] <SendTelemSatPhon> they must have other communication system
[15:28] <SendTelemSatPhon> maybe seret
[15:28] <SendTelemSatPhon> secret
[15:28] <SendTelemSatPhon> not other but additional
[15:28] <Suterusu> Oh, they do - I don't think any o them hook up with the DSN, though I could be wrong.
[15:30] <Suterusu> Doesn't really matter - it's al getting scrapped anyway. Mission was only to 2025 ish. There's a few modules there with more service life, but that's outside of warrenty.... space isn't the place to risk it. Sell it to a private investor to upgrade/update. Besides, they want to be getting on with the Artemis missions, which spec up for a lunar base and or a cislunar orbital station.
[15:31] <SendTelemSatPhon> yes
[15:31] <Suterusu> As for the comms, Musk has already swamped the atmosphere with birds - and each launch he'll throw another 100 or so out the door. His starlink constellation wouldn't take much of an upgrade to provision data for the Artemis missions - and he'll need to be doing that anyway if he plans to ferry data backwards n forwards from Mars...
[15:32] <Suterusu> The Artemis missions also have they mince pies on Mars - so he'll probably be able to wrangle NASA into footing the bill to build at least out that far.
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[15:35] <SendTelemSatPhon> i prefer to send sonda out of solar
[15:36] <SendTelemSatPhon> what gives humanity when we ONLY build base on other planet
[15:38] <SendTelemSatPhon> new inventions are in people heads
[15:38] <SendTelemSatPhon> of somebody make device,can make it here
[15:38] <SendTelemSatPhon> if
[15:39] <Suterusu> I phear the growing up on a planet has tainted the human mentality. Given a preconception of what is 'home'.
[15:40] <Suterusu> If you can engineer an environment for long term survival on an unhospitable planet, you don't really need the planet. You can build your environment.
[15:40] <SendTelemSatPhon> in some part you have right
[15:41] <SendTelemSatPhon> but in other always people or even animals have own home near them
[15:41] <Suterusu> All you need is materials .... And space is full of materials. Most people think space is empty, but literally everything is in space.
[15:41] <SendTelemSatPhon> people form other city often back to their city born
[15:41] Nick change: snakedGT -> snaked
[15:42] <SendTelemSatPhon> ofcourse people can try this in space
[15:42] <SendTelemSatPhon> but first should be budget on sondas
[15:42] <Suterusu> If you take it from up there, you don't need to worry about expending energy fighting Eart's gravity none. All you need to lift is the initial equipment to kick it off. Might be a good idea to start in LEO harvesting the debris field and dead satellites, plenty o materials there....
[15:43] <Suterusu> Think, each major rocket launch since say 1960, has left an upper stage floating about up there - and that's a nice lump of titanium waiting to repurpose....
[15:46] <SendTelemSatPhon> member that you need also energy to make something or change
[15:46] <SendTelemSatPhon> solar system is too weak for that
[15:47] <SendTelemSatPhon> solar energy
[15:47] <Suterusu> One facility that can reprocess materials, and fabricate - Grind it into a powder and laser sinter into a new product for example - could conceivably clone itself, part by part. Maybe a couple of 'tugs' to get it more food. And a pair of centrafugal launchers. Spin it up to high RPM and let go so it launches a tug off past mars to the asteroid field beyond. Much food. Spin up the clone next, and the tug can 'catch' it and position
[15:47] <Suterusu> it perfectly...
[15:47] <Suterusu> Solar is good all the way out to Jupiter... almost.
[15:48] <Suterusu> In space you don't have a few miles of air to absorb the light...
[15:48] <Suterusu> In fact - in space the problem is too much light ... tends to burn out the panels ... they has to make 'em special because of
[15:50] <SendTelemSatPhon> possible but laser only cut or spin
[15:50] <SendTelemSatPhon> not rechange material
[15:51] <Suterusu> Laser can cut - by heating that intensely it atomises it ... but be a little more gentle and it can heat it slower, and just melt it. Or you can use a laser to freeze it. Freeze is possible a 'better' option for a lot of materials as it causes them to become brittle. This makes them easier to break - a simple mulcher can powder most things...
[15:52] <SendTelemSatPhon> yes in minerals ofcourse you have right
[15:53] <SendTelemSatPhon> i though about making something very advanced
[15:53] <Suterusu> Armed with a powder, the laser can fuse two bits of powder together, then another - until it makes a solid part .... powder is also easy to melt, push through an extruder into a filiment to use for induction welding into shapes, blob by blob - or as a liquid it can be injection moulded
[15:54] <Suterusu> A similar process can be used for ore extraction from asteroids ... and once you get to that stage there's basically an unlimited (on the scale of your species lifespan) amount of resources.
[15:55] <Suterusu> Just one rock floating just the other side of Mars has more platinum in it than has ever been mined from the surface of the Earth.
[15:55] <Suterusu> And there's more rocks than you can count ....
[15:56] <Suterusu> By the time you've managed to clear a path thru that field, you can think about spinning a clone out to the Oort cloud ...
[16:21] <Suterusu> What about tomtom? No-one in 'ere occureed 'em being repurposed? Methinks them got GPS. Strip it of the screen n case and it gets a lot lighter. Doesn't look like the chips GPIO particular accessible - but it's got a USB socket, and I hear them runs linux.... Gotta be possible to bridge over to USB somehow... Could be a reasonably cheap flight controller - just add radio, sensors and code...
[16:23] <SendTelemSatPhon> i entering now tomtom
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[16:34] <SendTelemSatPhon> i am not sure they can use usb to send data
[16:34] <SendTelemSatPhon> only to update maps
[16:39] <SendTelemSatPhon> do you know any sonda with usb ?
[16:39] <SendTelemSatPhon> i now just thinked about it
[16:51] <Suterusu> I'm not familiar at all .... And USB is a bi-directional interface. They don't send data down it as stock - but if you change it's firmware.... I hear that's some breed of linux, so something can possible be made to go. Might need some intimacy with the internals of it's chip - not looked see what's in the one on junk shelf yet but suspect it's some breed of ARM. Once you can talk over it's USB port then getting a cheap hub to take
[16:51] <Suterusu> apart for it's USB controller to link it to many things - including other sensors and radio so it can transmit data - should be dolly dimple
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[17:22] <SendTelemSatPhon> is there any page where you have records about altitude ?
[17:23] <SA6BSS-Mike> in here maby https://ukhas.org.uk/
[17:24] <SendTelemSatPhon> i didint find there
[17:24] <SA6BSS-Mike> altitudes of what, up /down flight?
[17:24] <SendTelemSatPhon> up
[17:24] <SA6BSS-Mike> up / burst - Down?
[17:24] <SendTelemSatPhon> maybe server have logs about it
[17:25] <SA6BSS-Mike> there a re calcultors
[17:25] <SendTelemSatPhon> and make statistics about records
[17:25] <SA6BSS-Mike> what balloon , what payload weight , how much gas , etc
[17:26] <SA6BSS-Mike> what altirude do you aim for?
[17:26] <SendTelemSatPhon> to do record
[17:27] <SA6BSS-Mike> to achive a world record in altitude ?
[17:27] <SendTelemSatPhon> yea,hab balloons
[17:28] <SA6BSS-Mike> its somewhere arround 42000m iirc or was it 52000m
[17:28] <SA6BSS-Mike> it was a verry questionable record made by a Maxican group
[17:29] <SendTelemSatPhon> ...and then to speak how to do it more times
[17:29] <SendTelemSatPhon> 42000m do balloon type 5000
[17:29] <SendTelemSatPhon> but how 52 ?
[17:29] <SA6BSS-Mike> so, it only going to be non govermental supported record
[17:30] <SendTelemSatPhon> i know
[17:30] <SendTelemSatPhon> but is passion not guiness record,i believe people wont cheat
[17:31] <SendTelemSatPhon> also habbit take info from radio/sat
[17:31] <SA6BSS-Mike> there was this site if I only could remeber the name...
[17:31] <SA6BSS-Mike> its gone but the way back mashine should work
[17:31] <SA6BSS-Mike> back in 5
[17:33] <SendTelemSatPhon> have you ever been in kiruna space center ?
[17:34] <SA6BSS-Mike> No, same country but just as far away as Italy is :)
[17:35] <SendTelemSatPhon> haha
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[17:35] <SendTelemSatPhon> italy have rocket platform at sea
[17:36] <SendTelemSatPhon> you can choice haha
[17:36] <SA6BSS-Mike> :)
[17:36] <SA6BSS-Mike> them name came back to me, lets see if waybackmashine have something for us...
[17:37] <SendTelemSatPhon> nice
[17:37] <SA6BSS-Mike> https://arhab.org/
[17:37] <SA6BSS-Mike> old site
[17:40] <Suterusu> Re: record .... I has a cunning plan. I was hoping to aim for a stable float somewhere about 43-45clicks (night-time ballast provided by resistor powering a lil hot air baloon, with valve to let air out) by getting 4x baloons with a 1KG payload suggestion and 30klick burst ceiling but only filling each one about 29% - making the 1KG and 30 klicks muck more of a guide than a limit .... But similar story - larger balloons, with les
[17:40] <Suterusu> s gas in 'em - and you'll get higher before they pop ... if I'm understanding this right you can balance the payload to achieve height stability
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[17:47] <SA6BSS-Mike> tell us if you succeed!
[17:48] <SendTelemSatPhon> this site have 2001 gallery
[17:49] <SendTelemSatPhon> nice
[17:49] <Suterusu> Shouldn't be too hard - maybe a lil fumbling finding for optimum temperature, optimum speed to feed the squircle thru the heating element etc .... but them blankets is cheap so should be able to has a few attempts until it goes right. Just actually getting around to do it. Probably got all I need kicking about, bar the teflon tape
[17:49] <Suterusu> Trying to think what that film is on my printer bed, that might be good too - ahh, kaptom
[17:50] <SendTelemSatPhon> i spoken about great plains...
[17:51] <SendTelemSatPhon> on arhab.org still are new missions
[17:52] <SendTelemSatPhon> i wrote this here but maybe this portal are in competitions haha
[17:53] <SA6BSS-Mike> :) just a sister site
[17:53] <SA6BSS-Mike> great plains are the LARGE balloon fest in US
[17:53] <Suterusu> Hmm. I wonder if I can just turn my bed temperature up, and mount a motored roller on the head assembly to pull the material thru - maybe an insulated block to force the path of the squicle so only the two edges touch the bed at the point it's welding, then lifts away rapid...
[17:55] <Suterusu> I'm thinkin if the edges is folded over each other, and then fused, it should be a pretty solid seam
[17:55] <Suterusu> Gah, now I'm trying to think o a way to weld the seam on the inside - that'd be far stronger under negative pressure
[17:59] <Suterusu> And a toroid specifically, 'cause you do a stack o them right then they can support the upper end o a K class rocket to fire once you get the platform high enough...
[18:04] <SendTelemSatPhon> i found satelite tracker
[18:04] <Suterusu> Methinks if that was built Airlander 10/HAV403 scale(anyone wanna foot the bill?), then you could haul something significantly larger to fire. Might be able to build the toroids wide enough to survive too. But I suspect the skin on such isn't one of the more expensive components, a decent arrest system -replace 'em on the ground and the saving from not burning fuel thru the first 30 klicks or so of the lift will allow easier acce
[18:04] <Suterusu> ss to smaller payloads and cheaper access to medium payloads shifted to orbit.
[18:05] <SendTelemSatPhon> why are only 2 satelites ?
[18:05] <SendTelemSatPhon> (one is issis station in real)
[18:05] <Suterusu> I can't tell you that - insufficient data
[18:05] <SendTelemSatPhon> on nearspace.us/satelite
[18:05] <SendTelemSatPhon> nearspace.us/sats
[18:05] <Suterusu> it's likely them the only two they tracking - there's definitely more up there
[18:06] <Suterusu> I can think of a dozen NOAA weather birds alone
[18:06] <Suterusu> They tx unencrypted btw, as they pass over you can just yoink the payload
[18:08] <Suterusu> That link just took me to some canadian web host? possible a work in progress?
[18:09] <SendTelemSatPhon> ?
[18:09] <Suterusu> https://platform.leolabs.space/visualization
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[18:16] <SendTelemSatPhon> my mistake on this website is ISS and HST
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[18:29] <SendTelemSatPhon> thank you for web site i found records
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[18:39] <SendTelemSatPhon> maybe in near future administrator make from logs base to check also on habhub
[18:41] <SendTelemSatPhon> at other side film from 1987 ,nice
[19:22] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KD2FOU-11 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD2FOU-11
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[20:45] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03MARS2021 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MARS2021
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[21:07] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03ICT6 after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ICT6
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[23:07] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03N4XWC-1 after 039 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N4XWC-1
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[00:00] --- Mon Jun 14 2021