highaltitude.log.20200602

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[05:45] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03pc4l-0620 after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=pc4l-0620
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[06:37] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DL2623-4_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DL2623-4_chase
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[08:27] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-77 after 036 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-77
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[10:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03habboy_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=habboy_chase
[10:17] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-76 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-76
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[10:48] <OZ1SKY_Brian> is pc4l-0620 solar power?
[11:05] <PE2BZ> Hi Brian, yes it´s solar powered, no lipo or something
[11:05] <PE2BZ> https://ttnmapper.org/track/?device=pc4l-0620&startdate=&enddate=&gateways=on&lines=on&points=on
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[11:06] <nmcc> Ha, that should mess with their heads!
[11:07] <OZ1SKY_Brian> oh cool
[11:08] <PE2BZ> Saves us from ¨measure distance¨ on Google Maps. Out to the roof now, replacing Ecoflex 15 for triple Aircell 7....
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[11:12] <OZ1SKY_Brian> bare carefull
[11:12] <OZ1SKY_Brian> be
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[11:28] <michal_f> is it normal that my pololu regulator emits audible buzz ??
[11:28] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SA6BSS-8 after 0321 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SA6BSS-8
[11:29] <nmcc> No, stand back and wait for the capacitor to blow
[11:29] <nmcc> Which model of reg and I can be more specific
[11:29] <michal_f> seriously ?
[11:32] <michal_f> https://www.pololu.com/product/2872
[11:32] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03N6JED-12 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N6JED-12
[11:33] <nmcc> Perhaps not on this one, no electrolytics - what voltage are you giving it?
[11:34] <michal_f> 5v from 3x AAA
[11:35] <michal_f> my pi zero tracker works ok when powered from PSU, but acts werird on batteries... and this suspicius buzz :/
[11:36] <nmcc> Then it's no good - I use similar boards from Ada and generics from China and don't get buzzing. Pi Zero + GPS + LoRa is well within limits for that module.
[11:37] <nmcc> It may well be OK for ground based non-critical work
[11:38] <michal_f> I am using 3.3v output to 3.3v pin on pi zero. No 5v at all.
[11:38] <michal_f> and I have camera
[11:38] <nmcc> Hmm, not sure if camera needs 5V
[11:40] <michal_f> I probably should replace this regulator
[11:40] <michal_f> maybe I have faulty unit
[11:41] <nmcc> Yes, regardless of what the Pi Zero & other bits need in the way of voltage, the reg shouldn't buzz
[11:42] <nmcc> https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberrypi/schematics/rpi_SCH_Zero_1p3_reduced.pdf
[11:43] <nmcc> It may be worth trying 3 x AAA directly as the 5V input goes direct to a regulator and I can't see anything else that uses the 5V rail
[11:44] <michal_f> the question is how low the voltage can go before pi's regulator gives up
[11:44] <michal_f> that pololu I linked can go down to 2v
[11:45] <michal_f> plus - I already have PCB manufactured and soldered :)
[11:45] <michal_f> ping daveake
[11:45] <nmcc> How long do you want the tracker to run - using Lithium's, I'd expect it to be 15+ hours
[11:45] <michal_f> daveake, have you had any trouble with piZero and camera when powered with 3.3v only ?
[11:45] <daveake> Depends on the Pi
[11:45] <nmcc> Boost is much less efficient on a dual purpose chip
[11:46] <daveake> iirc I had a zero running at 2.9V in
[11:46] <michal_f> and camera working too ?
[11:46] <daveake> Anywhere near the lowest threshold and you risk undesirables happening when the current requirement peaks e.g. taking photo, lose GPS lock
[11:49] <nmcc> https://www.diodes.com/assets/Datasheets/PAM2306.pdf
[11:49] <nmcc> This is the reg on the PiZ - find the voltage drop required for 3.3V
[11:51] <nmcc> https://data.energizer.com/pdfs/l92.pdf
[11:52] <nmcc> 3 x AAA's will run at 4.8V up to 600mAh and the next 600 will slope down to 4.2V and then drop off a cliff - this is data sheet calcs so the next step would be to run one.
[11:52] <michal_f> hmm. Maybe I shouldn't use own regulator at all
[11:54] <nmcc> PiZ needs ~80mA with HDMI & LED off, apparently
[11:55] <PE2BZ> OZ1SKY_Brian, thanks. Back in :-)
[11:56] <PE2BZ> You know the distance between me at the keybord and the antennas is only 3 meter, and I can reach it from the top roof window. The roof is about 15 degrees so not a big risk :-)
[11:57] <michal_f> with camera and mtx2 runnig it oscilates under 200mA here
[11:58] Action: PE2BZ thinks.... calculates... The end of the roof is 75 degrees and only 2 feet away ;-)
[11:58] <nmcc> What are you doing with the camera - shooting video
[11:59] <nmcc> Would be interesting to know what the draw is for PiZ with camera only and PiZ with MTX2 only to figure out where the drain is
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[12:03] <nmcc> As that may influence you to change to LoRa
[12:04] <nmcc> @PE2BZ, what's the drop - it's not falling off that hurts, it's the landing
[12:04] <michal_f> with cam disconnected and only mtx2 running it's about 80-100mA
[12:04] <michal_f> so camera is that hubgry here
[12:05] <michal_f> hungry
[12:05] <nmcc> I know it is with video, was that with it just plugged in?
[12:05] <michal_f> now camera is disconnected --> 80-100mA. When I connect camera, the video is constantly recording
[12:06] <nmcc> Are you planning on video?
[12:06] <michal_f> yes ! :)
[12:06] <nmcc> If so, you could go to 3 x AA batteries
[12:06] <PE2BZ> nmcc, the only cable that could hold me, the Ecoflex 15, was cut in 2 pieces ;-)
[12:06] <michal_f> I was about to measure how long it lasts
[12:07] <nmcc> The height of the roof ...
[12:09] <michal_f> I think I order another regulator and test it. Otherwise I just solder cables to 5v rail... I really need to let it go soon, I'm making it for too long now :)
[12:09] <PE2BZ> 13 m with a balcony 8 meters below...
[12:09] <nmcc> AA's double the weight but you get 3 times the run time
[12:09] <michal_f> good to know
[12:10] <michal_f> fortunatelly I can make this decission late
[12:10] <nmcc> @PE2BZ, yeah, that should be enough to keep you quiet forever 💀
[12:10] <nmcc> How long is your flight time?
[12:10] <PE2BZ> 2 seconds...
[12:11] <PE2BZ> Somehow I now think that question was to michal_f ;-)
[12:11] <nmcc> No, not you Ben, but long enough for your whole life to pass before your eyes
[12:11] <nmcc> Yes!
[12:12] <michal_f> I expect ~2.5 raw flight. +2h for preparations and payload recovery
[12:12] <nmcc> When?
[12:12] <michal_f> I know - optimistic measure
[12:12] <nmcc> Seems about right to me
[12:12] <michal_f> I hoped this month maybe
[12:13] <nmcc> OK, so today you solder to the 5V pads on the underside of the PiZero, tonight you put 3 x AAA batteries on it, leave it to run, in the morning you will know the run time
[12:14] <michal_f> hmm yeah.... I will do that
[12:15] <michal_f> This f**** just died... It runned ok without camera for several minutes, but nt with camera
[12:15] <michal_f> <solder-mode on>
[12:15] <nmcc> The reg?
[12:15] <michal_f> no, the tracker shut down
[12:18] <nmcc> More to investigate - after some random stupidity from me in the past, I've learn't to soak test a rig a week before flight on a PSU for at least 12 hours (ie, all day).
[12:19] <nmcc> As for the video, if you use raspivid then use the --segment option to split the video files rather than have one very big one
[12:21] <michal_f> I do that, however camera code is python and it's camera module
[12:21] <michal_f> I also take hires photos inbetween
[12:22] <nmcc> 👍
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[12:25] <michal_f> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaBXRVB98nI my last flight!
[12:25] <michal_f> ot 4 yrs ago :/
[12:26] <nmcc> Video is private
[12:30] <michal_f> oh
[12:30] <michal_f> sorry
[12:32] <nmcc> Would be interesting to see, I've not tried a video yet, can you make it by invitation or public?
[12:35] <nmcc> I think it's called making it unlisted - so it doesn't come up in the searches
[12:35] <michal_f> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaBXRVB98nI&feature=youtu.be now ok ?
[12:36] <nmcc> Yup, excellent, I MUST try this soon
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[13:01] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KN6EQU-2 after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KN6EQU-2
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[13:11] <michal_f> ok. I soldered 5v... but 3xAAA is still unstable. I am trying with 4xAAA - what is interesting that even signal looks stronger on demodulator
[13:11] <nmcc> Can you measure the 3.3V pad?
[13:12] <michal_f> I measured for 3xAAA - it was 3.3v
[13:12] <nmcc> How is the GPS powered
[13:12] <PE2BZ> michal_f, is this the weight vvs power struggle ?
[13:12] <nmcc> No, it's the buzzing regulator vs not using one on a PiZero struggle
[13:12] <michal_f> PE2BZ, no it's a struggle to have a working tracker from batteries :)
[13:13] <michal_f> yes, and buzzing power reg
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[13:16] <nmcc> Is the GPS powered via the 3.3V from the Pi?
[13:17] <michal_f> yes
[13:17] <nmcc> Can it be temporarily removed to see if stability returns?
[13:17] <nmcc> What sort of module is it? Could it be powered directly?
[13:18] <michal_f> it's that https://store.uputronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=60_64&product_id=72
[13:19] <michal_f> I was feeding power reg output to raspi 3.3v pin. actually all was connected to that rail
[13:19] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03W5HRH-15 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W5HRH-15
[13:21] <nmcc> Definitely can't run that off 3xAA(A) but you could tap in to 2xAA(A) to feed it directly - it may be overloading the Pi reg
[13:22] <michal_f> with power regulator this was not an issue - right ?
[13:22] <michal_f> it had much more capacity
[13:25] <nmcc> Yup - GPS chip typically needs <30mA, but with the camera and the MTX2 it may be overloading the traces as much as the reg
[13:29] <michal_f> it runs ok now, 15 minutes ... keeps going
[13:29] <nmcc> Any changes or just a reboot?
[13:29] <michal_f> 4 batts instead of 3
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[13:38] <Celestial_Mech> Ok so, trying to setup dl-fldigi on a windows 10 laptop, everything appearing nominal, accept that the waterfall doesn't appear in its panel, so can't tune anything. Is this a noted problem? Is it grpahics related?
[13:39] <Celestial_Mech> I have manged to get it working as advertised on a non-portable windows 10 machine
[13:39] <nmcc> Look at differences in specs between the two machines - may be video card driver related
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[13:41] <Celestial_Mech> Thanks, also has anyone got it working on Ubuntu? I followed the instructions but a "make" step appeared to fail
[13:42] <michal_f> as to LoRa... do HABbers have some common c/c++ code for it? Or everyone reinvents wheel ?
[13:43] <nmcc> Every one uses Dave's code!
[13:43] <michal_f> very good !
[13:43] <nmcc> Which can alternate between RTTY & LoRa so your trackers can be either or both
[13:45] <nmcc> @Celestial_Mech, I believe for HAB mostly people use the pre-builds from the UKHAS site as it integrates HabHub
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[13:51] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03K5WH-15 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K5WH-15
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[13:55] <PE2BZ> michal_f, I might have missed a piece here or there, but you are running into problems with powering a Pi from 3 batteries (not a Pi zero ) ?
[13:56] <michal_f> pizero from 3xAAA.
[13:56] <michal_f> Initialy with power regulator from Pololu, but it emited buzzing sound and tracker was unstable.
[13:56] <michal_f> now I soldered batteries directly to 5V pins
[13:56] <michal_f> and I use 4xAAA
[13:56] <PE2BZ> 4 batteries to the 5 V pins ?
[13:56] <michal_f> yes
[13:57] <PE2BZ> Why....
[13:57] <michal_f> with 3 batts the tracker was acting weird
[13:57] <PE2BZ> All my Pi Zero flights were powered from 3 AA Energizer batteries. At the 5 Volt pin. Most of them transmitted for over 20 hours !
[13:58] <PE2BZ> Only problem is interference from camera and or LoRa transmitter 9at 434 MHz) to the GPS reception.
[13:58] <michal_f> did you use camera in video mode ?
[13:59] <PE2BZ> Not while trasnmitting no. I did use it to adjust the lens for some minutes. With HDMI cable to the Pi Zero
[14:01] <michal_f> if I use 3 batteries, my mtx2 retunes to default frequency for some reason
[14:02] <michal_f> and stops transmitting soon after
[14:02] <PE2BZ> You are running on the tiny triple a ?
[14:05] <PE2BZ> Any chance to run it on 4.5 volt from a power supply with amp meter ?
[14:06] <PE2BZ> I never found a DC converter able to power the Pi Zero by the way. It would never start up.
[14:08] <michal_f> I measured with cheap USB amp meter. it's under 200mA 5V when using camera
[14:09] <michal_f> I hoped to use 3xAAA - PE2BZ would you recommend 3xAA as better option ?
[14:10] <PE2BZ> The triple a have about double ¨internal resistance¨ so it makes sense that the voltage drops when powering on. 0,2 Ohm at 0,2 Ampere should not give a big drop.
[14:11] <PE2BZ> Do you have 3 AA around for test ? Might be alkaline when not flying, it never failed on me with AA batteries.
[14:12] <michal_f> no, have to buy some
[14:13] <PE2BZ> 4.5 ¨torch¨ battery ? The flat type ?
[14:14] <michal_f> no AA batts, I have no spare around
[14:14] <michal_f> and I have no 3x basket for them either
[14:15] <PE2BZ> You do have a solder iron and maybe a bit of sandpaper ?
[14:15] <michal_f> sure :)
[14:15] <michal_f> anyway - tracker runs 4xAAA now, the voltage is 4.9 and all seems good
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[14:16] <PE2BZ> 4.9 does not make sense... 6 Volt from 4 batteries, you have a drop of 1.1 Volt ?
[14:16] <PE2BZ> Do you happen to have gas stations where they sell multimeters for 5 pound ? The small orange things ?
[14:16] <michal_f> so it seems
[14:17] <michal_f> I used such one to measure this voltage
[14:17] <michal_f> after connecting those 4 AAA the voltage reads 4.9
[14:17] <PE2BZ> Battery wire thickness ? You are not using the chinese crocodile cables for testing ?
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[14:18] <michal_f> battery -> tracker is indeed thin wire.
[14:18] <PE2BZ> Nice ! So you can measure at both sides of the same cable (+ and later -) to see if you drop 0.5 volt over the cable only please ?
[14:18] <michal_f> multimeter wires are what I had - no idea how good they are
[14:18] <nmcc> IR on Energizer AA & AAA are about the same, 120-240 & 140-180 m& respectively
[14:18] <michal_f> btw. I run cheap lexmark batteries now (not for flighjt)
[14:18] <PE2BZ> You used multimeter wires for the power ?
[14:19] <PE2BZ> You are not to blame but those are much worse as the chinese crocodile cables.
[14:19] <michal_f> no ! :)
[14:19] <PE2BZ> Any ¨lamp wire¨ like 2 x 0.75? Brown blue ?
[14:20] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03W5KUB-18 after 0320 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W5KUB-18
[14:21] <PE2BZ> So, you can measure if the voltage drop is in the battery wires ?
[14:21] <michal_f> 4.8v at battey basket, 4.5 at pi pins. definitely need to solder thicker wire :)
[14:21] <michal_f> brb - lunch time
[14:21] <PE2BZ> Enjoy ;-)
[14:21] <michal_f> thanks !
[14:21] <PE2BZ> 2 wires in parallel :-)
[14:21] <PE2BZ> Or 4....
[14:25] <nmcc> I know the small orange multimeters - too small for my hands, I tend to recommend this as a good starter: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01N9TRQI1
[14:25] <nmcc> Then they can get a Fluke after
[14:27] <PE2BZ> Looks neath! Using a Fluke myself but still using the Hapé I got when I finished the technical school in 1988 ;-)
[14:28] <PE2BZ> And I have one which hides itself inside a chinese oscilloscope. But that thing sucks....
[14:29] <PE2BZ> Now I have to look on the roof and see if the lowest (7 el 70 cm yagi) does not touch the 23 cm biquad on the other rotor...
[14:29] <nmcc> Put boxing gloves on the end of each of them
[14:31] <nmcc> This is my oldest meter:
[14:31] <nmcc> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/aEB2yYjq/s-l1600.jpg
[14:31] <PE2BZ> Might be easier to take 10 cm from the PVC tube on the ¨other rotor¨ .... Or wire a siren if they touch each other...
[14:31] <PE2BZ> Awwww... Nice :-) Older as me ?
[14:32] <nmcc> Pre WW2 I think, 1800 ohms per volt!
[14:33] <nmcc> I also have a Mooshimeter - two channel Bluetooth meter with logging - very useful for watching things without standing next to them
[14:34] <michal_f> ok, going to have a little rest. thanks for all advice guys
[14:34] <michal_f> btw. this is my tracker https://twitter.com/froszu/status/1251182135232397315
[14:35] <PE2BZ> michal_f, take it easy :-)
[14:35] <nmcc> Nice job @michal_f
[14:36] <PE2BZ> How about a close encounter ?
[14:36] <PE2BZ> https://photos.app.goo.gl/UjGNrquwmjJwpNA96
[14:37] <PE2BZ> The good news: I did stop in time :-) and there is space in the cable to move the 70 cm yagi 20 cm up.
[14:38] <nmcc> You only need to go up 1cm
[14:39] <PE2BZ> The yagi rotor thinks it is at 285 degrees and the other one at 270. Let me first fix the yagi a bit up. Always better for the UK radiosondes :-)
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[14:54] <PE2BZ> 20 cm space between the lowest part of the yagi and the top of the bi-quad now :-)
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[16:04] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KN4ZEQ-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KN4ZEQ-11
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[16:33] <OZ1SKY_Brian> is it pobbisle to rx the pc4l with the lora gateway?
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[16:48] <PE2BZ> Yes
[16:48] <PE2BZ> A bit...
[16:48] <PE2BZ> I guess
[16:49] <PE2BZ> It won´t decode but you should see the RSSI drop
[16:49] <PE2BZ> It uses alternating channels 868.1 868.3 and 868.5 SF7 and 125 kHz bandwidth
[16:50] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok sounds like its not worth it then
[16:51] <OZ1SKY_Brian> i got other trafic on 868, so i would not know what is what
[16:52] <PE2BZ> The ones in stereo are wireless headsets ;-)
[16:53] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hehe yeah but the lora bursts
[16:54] <OZ1SKY_Brian> might as well just use the sdr then
[16:58] <OZ1SKY_Brian> are those center freq?
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[17:03] <OZ1SKY_Brian> lucky not much lora trafic in south west direction
[17:03] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03NT6T-13 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=NT6T-13
[17:04] <OZ1SKY_Brian> still -0.49deg
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[17:05] <PE2BZ> Could take till tomorrow
[17:10] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yeah dont know when it shut down
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[17:53] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DL2623-4_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DL2623-4_chase
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[18:37] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-77 after 038 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-77
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[19:42] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03habboy_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=habboy_chase
[19:48] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03W8MV-11 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W8MV-11
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[00:00] --- Wed Jun 3 2020