highaltitude.log.20200601

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[04:05] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03S52O-9_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=S52O-9_chase
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[05:23] <OZ1SKY_Brian> gm
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[06:05] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DL2623-4_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DL2623-4_chase
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[07:25] <nmcc> @KevWal, you are in what we think of as our landing area, I'll lob a balloon your way when the pub is open, but as it's a bit of a drive from Bolton, I think the wife will want food as well!
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[08:08] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DirkDuyvel - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DirkDuyvel
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[08:35] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03W5KUB-18 after 0314 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W5KUB-18
[08:41] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Darkside pretty good batt power https://pasteboard.co/Jb2RZqY.png
[08:42] <Darkside> uhhhhhh
[08:42] <Darkside> well thats odd
[08:43] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yeah :-)
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[08:51] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03pc4l-0620 after 034 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=pc4l-0620
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[09:13] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-77 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-77
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[09:29] <PE2BZ> Good morning all :-)
[09:29] <OZ1SKY_Brian> gm ben
[09:30] <PE2BZ> Now this is a time to start the day :-)
[09:30] <PE2BZ> kevwal is debugging my TTN tracker atm :-) Should fail / give a message close to 12:00 BST
[09:32] <OZ1SKY_Brian> do you run a TTN node?
[09:32] <PE2BZ> We have had 3 issues, stopping either transmitting or reporting on the TTN after 2.5 hours of ¨power on time¨ where the one from PC4L started again after 7.5 hours and mine exactly half way at 3.75 hours... Still no clue why, but it´s a start...
[09:32] <PE2BZ> Yesterday we flew bz-ttn-v2 with the altitude trial.
[09:33] <PE2BZ> That one was received in Danmark on a gateway.
[09:33] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes i saw, but havent had any luck with TTN yet, do you run one?
[09:33] <OZ1SKY_Brian> a node
[09:33] <PE2BZ> I run a local gateway with indoor antenna at the moment, it´s good weather to put it outside.
[09:33] <PE2BZ> Where you say node I think I say gateway ?
[09:34] <SM0ULC-David> the deduplication in the backbone of TTN shouldn't make room for any "storms" of messages i think, about yesterdays comments--
[09:34] <PE2BZ> SM0ULC-David, thanks David !
[09:35] <PE2BZ> Must be something very silly software bug.... Grabbing the laptop to zip the ino for investigation....
[09:35] <OZ1SKY_Brian> what software do you use and radio ?
[09:35] <PE2BZ> but 2.5 hours, 9000 seconds, really does not match anything like integer out of range...
[09:36] <PE2BZ> OZ1SKY_Brian, sorry, for the tracker transmitter ?
[09:36] <OZ1SKY_Brian> no the gateway
[09:36] <PE2BZ> I did buy an indoor gateway. One moment.... Locating type
[09:37] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ah ok, i was trying to make one run on the PI
[09:37] <OZ1SKY_Brian> never mind
[09:39] <PE2BZ> If you make one (with RFM 868 MHz module that is possible) you will have a single channel gateway. That´s why I decided to ¨not do that¨
[09:41] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes thats right
[09:41] <PE2BZ> So, I went for this one https://www.antratek.nl/the-things-indoor-gateway?gclid=CjwKCAjwztL2BRATEiwAvnALcnLKueIUvgC1lljb_QBOxY0wEE5bzJ8kiNPGpJrFO7i6Z5DDVihGzRoC8psQAvD_BwE
[09:42] <PE2BZ> which has an on board connector for the inside antenna, which I removed and replaced by pigtail cable to connect the 868 Hz groundplane
[09:44] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes good idea
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[09:47] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-76 after 0319 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-76
[09:48] <OZ1SKY_Brian> dont understand what makes those outdoor gateway SO expensive
[09:48] <OZ1SKY_Brian> those prices are not for hobby
[09:51] <PE2BZ> With only 3 meter coax between ¨outdoor¨ and ¨indoor¨ the choice was easy for me.
[09:53] <bertrik> OZ1SKY_Brian: the difference is that the gateway listens on 8 frequencies at once, and at 8 (or so) modulation rates, and only 1 (or two by now?) chipset can do that, and the modulation is a bit proprietary
[09:54] <PE2BZ> I have to remove 12 meter of ecoflex to make space for Aircell7 3 lengths. The Ecoflex was for the 2400 MHz uplink to satellite which I stopped...
[09:54] <bertrik> the sx1301 chipset appears to do it with a kind of SDR solution + 2 frontend chips for the two bands
[09:54] <bertrik> SDR-on-a-chip
[09:55] <OZ1SKY_Brian> wonder about this one https://mikrotik.com/product/wap_lr8_kit
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[09:57] <bertrik> hm, all of the info about the wireless interface is about the wifi connection ...
[09:57] <OZ1SKY_Brian> https://www.thethingsnetwork.org/community/sion/post/new-gateway-in-saviese
[09:57] <OZ1SKY_Brian> says 8 channel
[09:58] <bertrik> right, "1-channel-gateways" are not really gateways, you need the 8 channels
[09:59] <OZ1SKY_Brian> so that should work
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[10:00] <bertrik> yes
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[10:34] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hmm those launches in sweden, they run out of batt before burst
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[10:37] <OZ1SKY_Brian> one on its way up, again low batteri, 37min left
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[10:37] <OZ1SKY_Brian> SA6BSS-Mike they dont want you to find them :-)
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[10:50] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03W8MV-11 after 039 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W8MV-11
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[10:54] <SM0ULC-David> OZ1SKY_Brian: you mean the rs41's?
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[10:55] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes
[10:58] <SM0ULC-David> mm, i thought they were cut via the firmware, timewise
[11:00] <OZ1SKY_Brian> not acording to the batt readout
[11:01] <OZ1SKY_Brian> 13min left on the batt
[11:05] <SM0ULC-David> kind of hard to track them then...
[11:06] <PE2BZ> OZ1SKY_Brian, where do you notice the remaining time ?
[11:14] <OZ1SKY_Brian> its the BT value
[11:15] <OZ1SKY_Brian> last decode BT value was 00:00:18
[11:15] <PE2BZ> That means Burst Timer is activated, and transmitter is turned off. Are those military launch locations ?
[11:15] <OZ1SKY_Brian> they must be using some dead batt or have them run a long time before launch
[11:16] <OZ1SKY_Brian> burst time?, ok i didnt know it was that
[11:16] <PE2BZ> Is that in RS41 tracker software ?
[11:17] <OZ1SKY_Brian> auto_rx
[11:17] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes i think its a military site
[11:19] <PE2BZ> The weather stations run default with 8.5 hours to have one (eventually floating) sonde not disturbing the next reading of a sonde launch. That is 8.5 hours after burst.
[11:19] <PE2BZ> Is that locally received by you ?
[11:19] <OZ1SKY_Brian> the BT kicks in before burst
[11:19] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes
[11:20] <Darkside> so the BT value is not always a burst timer
[11:20] <PE2BZ> Can you run rtl_tcp instead of the auto_rx and feed the received remote audio into RS41 tracker ?
[11:20] <OZ1SKY_Brian> it was still going up, as the last 3 was
[11:20] <Darkside> it can also be a 'kill timer' which is set so the tracker turns off after a fixed time ater launch
[11:21] <OZ1SKY_Brian> no not really, its running on a stand alone pi
[11:21] <Darkside> unfortunately its the same timer variable, so the only way to tell them apart isby when in the flight the counter starts counting down
[11:21] <Darkside> if its counting down during ascent, then its a kill timer, if it starts counting down after burst, then its a burst timer
[11:21] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok then its a kill timer
[11:22] <PE2BZ> That does imply multiple launches on the same QRG ?
[11:22] <PE2BZ> Than it makes sense...
[11:23] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Darkside again a odd voltage value
[11:23] <Darkside> OZ1SKY_Brian: yeah not sure whats up there. its possible that bit of the frame isnt being checksummed correctly
[11:23] <OZ1SKY_Brian> https://pasteboard.co/Jb3VC7E.png
[11:23] <Darkside> or the decoder is not testing the checksum correctly
[11:23] <PE2BZ> Newer firmware in the S-series perhaps ?
[11:24] <Darkside> what were the values just before that?
[11:24] <Darkside> can you copy the log file for that sonde somewhere?
[11:24] <OZ1SKY_Brian> checking
[11:26] <OZ1SKY_Brian> BATT 2.7,BT 00:00:18
[11:26] <OZ1SKY_Brian> then
[11:26] <OZ1SKY_Brian> BATT 1641.1,BT 00:00:18
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[11:27] <OZ1SKY_Brian> log sent to you
[11:28] <Darkside> hmm
[11:28] <Darkside> ok so the battery isnt *that* low
[11:29] <OZ1SKY_Brian> sent 2 more
[11:29] <OZ1SKY_Brian> same "issue"
[11:29] <Darkside> and the value is consisdent, which is interesting
[11:29] <Darkside> the log files really dont help that much
[11:29] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok
[11:29] <Darkside> a recording would be more useful, but that difficult to get
[11:31] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ill check if they launch another and see if i can do a baseband recording
[11:32] <Darkside> watch your disk space!
[11:32] <OZ1SKY_Brian> doing it on the pc
[11:33] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03JOALTL - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=JOALTL
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[12:21] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD0HIP-7 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD0HIP-7
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[12:45] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DK0LG - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DK0LG
[12:53] <PD3T> !flight pc4l-0620
[12:53] <SpacenearUS> 03PD3T: Can't find a flight doc matching your query
[12:54] <PD3T> @PC4L, are you online?.
[12:54] <PC4L> yep
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[12:56] <PD3T> is you flight active on air? If so what's the freq?
[12:56] <PC4L> I see you are looking for a flight doc.. there isn´t.. It´s only TTN so no bleeps to decode :)
[12:57] <PD3T> Ahh. Then i'll leave my gw on EWI to it ;)
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[12:59] <PC4L> It´s a balloon test.. to see if it good enough for the wspr flight.. If PE2BZ can see it, so should you ;)
[13:04] <PD3T> Hehe true i'm at aproxx 90 mtrs asl
[13:05] <PD3T> problem is it's a bit to crowdy on my gw to search for specific nodes unless i know the id ;)
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[13:11] <PC4L> 26011AFF
[13:15] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03AIRCOR-4 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AIRCOR-4
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[13:25] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SA6BSS-8 after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SA6BSS-8
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[13:34] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03N6JED-12 after 0313 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N6JED-12
[13:35] <SA6BSS-Mike> Darkside: OZ1SKY_Brian: those are Bofors military shooting range, they usuly have btk enableled as they send up severar after another
[13:36] <OZ1SKY_Brian> RR
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[13:51] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03TTGO - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=TTGO
[14:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03JOAL17 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=JOAL17
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[14:03] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03MYLORA after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MYLORA
[14:07] <buzz53> Just launched JOAL17 from Ipswich UK, LoRA mode 4 869.850 with SSDV, won't be going far hopefully, but estimating to 70000 feet
[14:07] <SIbot> In real units: 70000 ft = 21.3 km
[14:09] <OZ1SKY_Brian> nice, gl
[14:09] <OZ1SKY_Brian> wow nice pictures
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[14:35] <YO3ICT> buzz53: 16 kbps @ 250KHz bw?
[14:36] <buzz53> YO3ICT yes, that's right
[14:37] <YO3ICT> Thanks. Looks like you got a very solid RF link there. What's the payload antenna/RF output and the receive antenna?
[14:48] <buzz53> Just an upside down 1/4 wave and radials, 5mW. RX is G8FJG 10 ele special
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[14:56] <Ron_G8FJG> great pictures "BUZZ" you got the sunny day and the wind from the east
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[15:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03K6STS-2 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K6STS-2
[15:27] <daveake> Balloon sneaks into the pic https://ssdv.habhub.org/images/2020/06/01/2020-06-01--15-25-09-JOAL17-2B454.jpeg?u=218
[15:58] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KN6EQU-2 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KN6EQU-2
[16:05] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KK6UUQ-8 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KK6UUQ-8
[16:06] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03K7HAK-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K7HAK-11
[16:12] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KM6BWB-9 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KM6BWB-9
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[16:22] <Ron_G8FJG> image 194 death star and moon in harmony
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[16:34] <daveake> hah
[16:39] <chris_99> was there an image of the death star/moon, as i don't see it :'(
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[16:48] <YO3ICT> https://ssdv.habhub.org/images/2020/06/01/2020-06-01--16-45-57-JOAL17-2B4EE.jpeg?u=185
[16:57] <chris_99> ooh
[16:57] <chris_99> what's that from?
[16:57] <daveake> "That's no moon"
[16:58] <chris_99> i'm confused what it is
[16:58] <daveake> At the top? The balloon
[16:58] <chris_99> ohhh heh
[16:59] <daveake> At a guess this is a 100g balloon with the camera near the neck to try and stay within the 2m limit
[16:59] <chris_99> 2m limit?
[17:00] <daveake> For balloons flown without needing a NOTAM etc
[17:00] <daveake> Everything (balloon, payload, parachute, aerial) has to be within a 2m diameter sphere
[17:00] <chris_99> oh interesting, didn't know you could do that
[17:01] <daveake> IIRC the balloon has an official burst diameter of 1.8m, but if it burst at the official diameter it wouldn't be up above 20km :)
[17:01] <chris_99> with a NOTAM would the balloon alone be >2m diameter sphere?
[17:01] <daveake> With a NOTAM it can be whatever size you like
[17:02] <daveake> There are weight limits though
[17:02] <chris_99> gotcha, is there a simple formualae for how big the balloon is, in relation to the gas you put in, or would that be difficult to calculate?
[17:03] <daveake> yes not difficult
[17:03] <chris_99> would you need to know the material for that, or is that not that important
[17:03] <daveake> That's what the burst calculator does - it uses the manufacturer's burst diameter as a starting point
[17:04] <daveake> Steve's calculator is better as he offers the option of using a different burst diameter based on experience flying them
[17:04] <chris_99> sorry i was thinking of the diameter on the ground, wrt the gas you put in
[17:04] <daveake> Typically Hwoyee balloons exceed their specified diameter by some margin
[17:05] <daveake> Yes, the burst calculator gives you the volume at ground
[17:05] <chris_99> oh cool
[17:06] <daveake> And essentially the volume at altitude is the ground volume divided by the relative air density at altitude
[17:07] <nmcc> Can't see NOTAM for JOAL17, can @buzz53 confirm it's under 2m?
[17:07] <daveake> e.g. at 30km it's approx 1% air density so the volume is approx 100x that at ground level, so the balloon diameter is approx 4.6 that at ground level
[17:07] <chris_99> oh neat
[17:07] <daveake> nmcc pretty sure that picos are all he does
[17:09] <daveake> Latex pico flights would be a whole lot easier if they changed the limit to 2.5m :)
[17:10] <nmcc> So we can dangle underneath or because the burst size is so variable?
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[17:36] <daveake> To stay within the rules, you need to make sire that the max burst size plus the length of neck/payload/aerial is no more than 2m
[17:36] <daveake> sure
[17:37] <nmcc> I recall from conf 2 years back - but why increase it to 2.5m?
[17:37] <daveake> Hence people putting the parachute inside the balloon and tracker in the neck
[17:37] <nmcc> Ditto
[17:37] <daveake> Oh, that would be nice because these balloons can reach 2m
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[17:37] <nmcc> Perhaps get Steve to ask for smaller balloons?
[17:38] <daveake> Neck and 70cm 1/4 wave adds maybe 250mm or so
[17:38] <daveake> Yeah I think he's looked at some
[17:38] <daveake> Of use non-Hwoyee where burst alt means burst alt :)
[17:40] <nmcc> I'd certainly do more launches if we had something that was in the limit
[17:40] <nmcc> How reliable are parachutes inserted in to balloons
[17:41] <nmcc> And does a 16.4cm pigtail really count to the 2m rule 🤫
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[17:44] <daveake> Parachute in the balloon works well
[17:44] <daveake> and yes *everything* counts towards the rule :/
[17:45] <daveake> Feel free to design an aerial that retracts as the balloon fills :D
[17:46] <nmcc> Dang, those Pawan CPR-100g, 1.85m + pigtail = 14mm over ...
[17:47] <nmcc> Or using the HE you deploy, detach at 25m
[17:48] <nmcc> Any serious negative effects on the aerial if it's inside the balloon - I've a picture in my mind of a plastic sleeve that's attached to the top of the balloon & the neck with all the gubbins inside it, so it's easy to insert
[17:50] <daveake> Well you'd lose 3dB if no ground plane, but otherwise fine
[17:52] <nmcc> Could have an auto-magic unfolding ground plane on cardboard with tin foil - like a ship in a bottle
[17:53] <daveake> :)
[17:55] <nmcc> Hmmm, as schools have no time to do any launches this year, I've got about 9 months to play with this.
[17:59] <nmcc> Time to cook supper and then figure out why the air-conn has just flooded the area specifically under my chair
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[20:37] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-77 after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-77
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[21:50] <matb> Before I create a massive bodge to extract just the bits I want (one-off), is there a way to get https://legacy-snus.habhub.org/tracker/datanew.php?mode=1day&type=positions&format=json&max_positions=0&position_id=0 to give me just the current positions? Or at least a pointer to it's code/documentation?
[21:50] <KevWal> :)
[21:51] <matb> :-)
[21:59] <KevWal> Once last attempt at building HAB Tracker https://ukhas.org.uk/projects:hab_modem before bed...
[22:00] <KevWal> Ooh, closest yet I think, just a few "Could not resolve com.android.support:support-v4:28.0.0"
[22:00] <SIbot> In real units: 0 in = 0.00 cm
[22:17] <KevWal> time for bed, night all
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[00:00] --- Tue Jun 2 2020