highaltitude.log.20200514

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[00:41] <VK8TH> Does anyone know anything about PS-76 Balloon over central Australia, WSPR beaconon 14.0956?
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[03:23] <snh> VK8TH: PS is normally picospace.net
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[03:55] <VK8TH> thanks snh :)
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[05:26] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KK6BJ-11 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KK6BJ-11
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[05:46] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03W5KUB-18 after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W5KUB-18
[05:50] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03W8MV-11 after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W8MV-11
[05:57] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03YO3ICT-PITS after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YO3ICT-PITS
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[06:13] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KB6CAG-12 after 0314 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KB6CAG-12
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[06:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 0319GSN0013_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=19GSN0013_chase
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[07:34] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BSS26 after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BSS26
[07:41] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PMO_B01L after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PMO_B01L
[08:54] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03U4B-2 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=U4B-2
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[09:26] <kevwal> @daveake (or anyone..) For a TTGO Rx am I best using https://github.com/daveake/LoRaSerialGatewayTTGO or https://github.com/daveake/LoraBluetooth please?
[09:28] <daveake> The latter is basically a flexible version for different devices, so you just #define the one you have and it sets up pin allocations, OLED yay/nay, Bluetooth yay/nay, ESP32 or not (flash on ESP32 needs extra code)
[09:29] <daveake> Because I get fed up having 4 versions of the code :)
[09:29] <daveake> Probably that first repo will go at some point as it's not needed, but if it matches your device then it's fine
[09:31] <kevwal> understood, thanks Dave
[09:33] <OG27> Hey guys, predict.habhub.org is down. seems like the jquery include fails, probably a depricated include. Did you already notice? Who could fix that? Our stratosphere team wanted to fly this sunday and relied on this prediction :D
[09:38] <daveake> Ask in #habhub where the admin guys
[09:38] <daveake> r
[09:38] <Darkside> oh dear
[09:38] <PE2BZ> OG27, you do not have a launch location nearby with an hourly predictor ? They seem to work . ( like predict.habhub.org/hourly/westland )
[09:38] <Darkside> OG27: try https://predict.sondehub.org/
[09:39] <Darkside> it doesnt have all the features of the original predictor, e.g. saving to CSV or kml
[09:39] <Darkside> but it is working
[09:43] <OG27> Thanks for your responses! The predict sondehub.org seems to work! is that based on the same calculation i presume?
[09:43] <Darkside> yes
[09:43] <Darkside> though its using a different API, whcih is way faster
[09:43] <Darkside> also it doesnt use the gmaps API
[09:43] <PE2BZ> Darkside, Nice! Flight Profile Float :-) without having to enter 0.000005 and get rid of the warnings.
[09:43] <Darkside> thats part of the new API which agg and DanielRichman developed
[09:44] <PE2BZ> Thanks go to agg and DanielRichman for this :-)
[09:45] <Darkside> ok i fixed the main predictor
[09:46] <PE2BZ> Anything you can´t fix ? ;-)
[09:46] <kevwal> :)
[09:46] <kevwal> Darkside is the man :)
[09:46] <Darkside> PE2BZ: ugh
[09:46] <Darkside> it was as OG27 said
[09:46] <Darkside> import issues
[09:48] <OG27> Big Thanks to Darkside, DanielRichman and agg! We (some students of a swiss uni) will probably start a flight this sunday and send sensordata in real time to our website at https://stratoon.ch/ have a look if you'd like, sadly it's only in german :)
[09:49] <Darkside> not using the habhub tracker?
[09:49] <OG27> nope, track via lora and our own server. discovered your project only midway of our planning :)
[09:50] <Darkside> wow
[09:50] <OG27> lora point to point :D
[09:50] <Darkside> surprising, since its been around for... like 15 years
[09:50] <Darkside> well, maybe less
[09:50] <OG27> :) yea our bad :D
[09:50] <Darkside> but a long time anyway
[09:50] <Darkside> wheel, reinvented
[09:50] <Darkside> on habhub you get live predictions etc..
[09:50] <Darkside> pretty useful for recovery
[09:51] <Darkside> if you want them 'offline' you can use https://github.com/projecthorus/chasemapper
[09:51] <PE2BZ> OG27, ¨common¨ LoRa mode / frequency ? OZ1SKY has setup a receiver station wiht 434 and 868 LoRa
[09:51] <Darkside> PE2BZ: it sounds like they rolled their own
[09:51] <Darkside> so its not going to be compatible?
[09:52] <OG27> Arduino Mega with Lora Dragino 868 Hat
[09:52] <Darkside> ok that stratoon page crashed my browser tab
[09:53] <OG27> sorry mate :swating:
[09:53] <Darkside> OG27: so what PE2BZ is talking about is that there's a fairly common set of LoRa modes and telemetry formats used by the HAB community
[09:53] <Darkside> which means that multiple stations can receive, and contribute telemetry to tracker.habhub.org
[09:53] <Darkside> which means higher chance of tracking throughout the flight, and for things like sending pictures, higher chances of capturing a complete image
[09:54] <Darkside> OG27: have you heard of SSDV?
[09:54] <OG27> okey, seems intresting ill have a look
[09:55] <Darkside> SSDV being a means of packetizing an image in a way that if you lose a packet or two, you still get an image
[09:55] <Darkside> and if multiple receiers capture different packets, they can be re-assembled on the ssdv.habhub.org server to form a complete image
[09:56] <Darkside> in fact you can see an example right now on http://ssdv.habhub.org/ where there are two receivers (albeit ones at the same location for testing), contributing packets to form an image
[10:03] <OG27> looks nice, we take the car to drive behind the balloon :)
[10:03] <Darkside> yes, been there done that :P
[10:03] <Darkside> i wrote chasemapper so i would have something in the car that was not so reliant on internet for chasing
[10:04] <OG27> SSDV is a very nice concept :) much better than ours :D obviously
[10:04] <Darkside> and chasemapper is a successor of an older system we were using from ~2011
[10:05] <Darkside> getting your position data into somethign like chasemapper or habhub isn't that difficult
[10:05] <OG27> we amateurs use a serial communication between our arduino receiver and feed that into a map from nodeRED
[10:06] <Darkside> well with chasemapper you just have to emit your telemetry on USB in a format like TELEMETRY,HH:MM:SS,latitude,longitude,altitude\n
[10:06] <Darkside> UDP*
[10:06] <Darkside> not USB :P
[10:06] <Darkside> and if you do that, you get the map, if you set up chasmeapper right you also get live flight path predictions
[10:06] <Darkside> all stuff that helps a LOT in being able to get into position to recover your payload
[10:08] <Darkside> anyway, the point im making is there's a lot of open source tools out there to make this stuff easier, safer, and more reliable
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[10:09] <Darkside> gorn
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[10:10] <PE2BZ> OG41, are you from the OG27 team ?
[10:11] Action: PE2BZ thinks that nodeRED and lora and 868 MHz could mean they are on ¨the things network:
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[10:13] <OG27> sorry, it kicked me out for some reason :)
[10:14] Action: PE2BZ thinks that nodeRED and lora and 868 MHz could mean they are on ¨the things network:
[10:15] <PE2BZ> OG27, are you using the things network or something like that for receiving ? LoRaWan ?
[10:16] <OG27> Nope, we have one transmitter and one receiver. nodeRED is just a easy way to handle serial input from the receiver for us
[10:17] <PE2BZ> I wish the team good luck and a good recovery.
[10:19] <Darkside> yep, good luck.. and once you've done this flight, take a look at the work done previously on distributed receivers
[10:20] <Darkside> with a single receiver system, it only takes one broken bit of hardware to really ruin your day
[10:20] <PE2BZ> Should we mention things like reverse SMA connectors on antennas or are they part of ¨one broken bit: ..
[10:21] <Darkside> if you want.. but the point here is more around openness in protocol
[10:21] <chris_99> why was reverse SMA actually created?
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[10:22] <Darkside> to make it harder to connect consumer wifi equipment to higher gain antennas
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[10:22] <chris_99> ahh
[10:22] <OG27> yeah thanks a lot for your welcoming spirit here in the forum! for this flight, we won't be able to use lots of the infrastructure you guys provided already besides the wonderful predictor. We have one spare LoRa Hat, some SMA cables and we hope the best:
[10:22] <Darkside> good luck
[10:22] <Darkside> you'll need it
[10:23] <OG27> Thanks :) we take everything that is given to us :D
[10:24] <PE2BZ> OG27, test TX and RX on a good distance.... We heve seen flights on the map, disappearing on 200 m altitude and never received again...
[10:27] <Darkside> especially on the 868 mhz band...
[10:28] <OG27> We tested a whole bunch in the last few days but yes, you'll never know for sure, but that's the adventure right? :D We have a secondary GPS GSM tracker on board for the recovery :)
[10:36] <Darkside> those are maybe 50% reliable
[10:36] <Darkside> usualyl less
[10:37] <Darkside> main issue is usually no phone coverage when its sitting on the ground
[10:37] <Darkside> all this and more discussed in http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=1732
[10:52] <chris_99> Out of interest has anyone used modulation schemes other than 2FSK or CSS
[10:52] <Darkside> yeah, we use 4FSK on our primary telemetry
[10:52] <chris_99> oh neat
[10:52] <chris_99> what hardware do you use for that
[10:52] <Darkside> https://github.com/projecthorus/horusbinary
[10:52] <Darkside> reprogrammed RS41 radiosonde
[10:53] <Darkside> Si4032 radio chip
[10:53] <chris_99> cheers
[10:53] <Darkside> currently working on a modem upgrade for it too, which will improve performance by a few db
[10:55] <chris_99> what kind of baud does that give you?
[10:56] <Darkside> whatever baud you want to run it at, but i run at 100 baud, for 200 uncoded bit/s, back down to 100 coded bit/s
[10:56] <Darkside> the current packet format is 22 bytes, resulting in a position update every 3 seconds or so
[10:57] <Darkside> teh new packet format (when I finish writing the code for it) will be 32 bytes, with about 9 bytes available for custom data
[10:59] <chris_99> cheers, so 100 baud is 200 bits of data, as 1 baud is 2 bits, because of 4FSK?
[10:59] <Darkside> yes
[11:00] <chris_99> is 100 baud about the max you can go? if so, what determines the max baud rate
[11:00] <Darkside> your link budget, and your available bandwidth
[11:00] <Darkside> this modem was designed specifically for high reliability positioning telemetry for a balloon flight
[11:01] <Darkside> hence keeping the baud rate low - though we still get a reasonable position update rate - certainly good enough for a HAB flight
[11:01] <chris_99> gotcha, thanks
[11:01] <chris_99> one more silly question, could you go above 4FSK
[11:01] <Darkside> not with this particular modem, but sure
[11:01] <chris_99> or i guess that relates to avail bandwidth too?
[11:02] <Darkside> the performance improvements are diminishing with increased modulation index
[11:02] <Darkside> s/index/order/
[11:02] <Darkside> 4FSK seems to be a good sweet spot
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[11:02] <chris_99> interesting, why does performance improvement diminish?
[11:02] <Darkside> not sure!
[11:04] <Darkside> there'll be a nice mathematical reason behind it im sure
[11:05] <chris_99> i'll do some googling. i guess you could use 4FSK on >1 channel though heh
[11:05] <Darkside> anyway, the FSK modulations are nice as its easy to get modulators for them
[11:05] <Darkside> all-in-one modulator chips that will do BPSK do exist, but are a lot more rare
[11:06] <Darkside> the AX5043 is one of them
[11:06] <chris_99> is there any advantage of psk?
[11:07] <chris_99> over fsk
[11:07] <Darkside> it has better performance for the same SNR / baud rate
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[11:43] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-74 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-74
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[18:19] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KN4IUD-15 after 033 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KN4IUD-15
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[19:24] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 034Z7HKA_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=4Z7HKA_chase
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[20:10] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DK0LG - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DK0LG
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[20:33] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-76 after 0314 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-76
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[20:51] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03EA4AKB_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=EA4AKB_chase
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[21:07] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 034X6UB-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=4X6UB-11
[21:22] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PMO_B01L after 0314 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PMO_B01L
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[23:53] daveake (uid144009@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yuplskivyclmydey) left irc: Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
[00:00] --- Fri May 15 2020