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[02:54] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BSS24 after 0315 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BSS24
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[05:14] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03U4B-2 after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=U4B-2
[05:17] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03ICT4 after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ICT4
[05:30] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03K6STS-15 after 0317 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K6STS-15
[06:06] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP3RAT_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP3RAT_chase
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[06:27] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP9UOB after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP9UOB
[06:27] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP9UOB-P37 after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP9UOB-P37
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[07:24] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP7THR - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP7THR
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[08:36] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03cheap - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=cheap
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[09:36] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 0319GSN0013_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=19GSN0013_chase
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[10:25] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PS-74 after 0319 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PS-74
[11:17] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP3RAT_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP3RAT_chase
[11:17] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03GOL2 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=GOL2
[11:17] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03GOL3 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=GOL3
[12:09] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CHEAPO - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CHEAPO
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[15:08] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KO4ACL-12 after 0316 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KO4ACL-12
[15:18] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KO4ACL-11 after 0316 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KO4ACL-11
[15:18] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03W5KUB-16 after 0318 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W5KUB-16
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[15:23] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LAST_HE - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=LAST_HE
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[16:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 0319GSN006 GALAXY S10 ROBERT_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=19GSN006%20GALAXY%20S10%20ROBERT_chase
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[16:31] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DK0LG - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DK0LG
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[18:23] <chris_99> Hi, has anyone ever seen a survey type paper on different accelerometer and gyros used in IMUs, covering fancy ones like RLG, Hemispherical resonator, etc. i'm curious how they all compare
[18:28] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03U4B-1 after 0321 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=U4B-1
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[20:16] <SpeedEvil> chris_99: I skipped all of those in my surveys of the field as they have too many zeros in the price.
[20:17] <chris_99> you can get some of them cheap on fleabay, like RLGs however im betting not a Hemispherical resonator, as i haven't found them
[20:19] <chris_99> i saw this today though - https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/sensors/automotive-sensors/new-gyroscope-design-will-help-autonomous-cars-robots-map-world a mini version afaik
[20:23] <SpeedEvil> Interesting.
[20:23] Action: SpeedEvil was recently sad when his ebay search fired.
[20:23] <SpeedEvil> Found a listing appearing to list a sterling engine from a ecogen baxi.
[20:23] <SpeedEvil> Googling got me the specs (560C in, 100C out, 5kW in, 1kWe out, even the driver PCB
[20:24] <SpeedEvil> Alas, it was just the housing.
[20:24] <SpeedEvil> Ebay is fun.
[20:24] <chris_99> ecogen baxi.? google is showing me a boiler
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> yes
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> It was a micro-CHP boiler with a sterling engine in.
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> It was unpopular and really expensive.
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> But I wanted to play with a sterling engine, and that's one of the only ones that came to market on a consumer level.
[20:26] <chris_99> ah gotcha, i'm confused. so my mechanical knowledge is v. poor, why would you need something like that in a boil, if you're heating water?
[20:26] <chris_99> *in a boiler
[20:28] <chris_99> oh it generates electricity
[20:28] <chris_99> neat
[20:28] <SpeedEvil> If you need heat anyway, it's free electricity
[20:28] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[20:28] <chris_99> sounds intriguing
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[20:28] <SpeedEvil> It was about 2K IIRC, and difficult to fit due to weight and other things.
[20:29] <chris_99> ahh
[20:29] <chris_99> what where you gonna use the engine for
[20:29] <SpeedEvil> Solar-PV-thermal-store
[20:29] <SpeedEvil> And yes, it's stupid.
[20:29] <SpeedEvil> But solar-PV is cheap.
[20:30] <SpeedEvil> And thermal store is cheap, batteries ain't.
[20:30] <chris_99> sorry i don't understand, you mean using the sun's heat to drive the engine?
[20:31] <SpeedEvil> Solar photovoltaic run into a resistive dump to heat a thermal store, to later generate electricity rather than put it in a battery.
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[20:32] <chris_99> can't you skip the PV, to generate heat directly?
[20:32] <chris_99> like those solar pipe heating things i mean
[20:32] <chris_99> on roofs
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> Thermal capture is actually more expensive - by a lot - compared to cheap solar panels.
[20:32] <chris_99> oh
[20:32] <chris_99> did not know that
[20:33] <chris_99> i kind of want one of those hand warmer stirling engines
[20:33] <chris_99> as a desk toy
[20:34] <chris_99> er, warmed by hands even
[20:34] <SpeedEvil> https://www.bimblesolar.com/solar/solar-pallets For example, has 8.1kW for 2700 quid.
[20:34] <chris_99> cool
[20:35] <chris_99> that's cheaper than i thought they'd be, that's the peak power output then?
[20:35] <SpeedEvil> yes
[20:36] <chris_99> efficiency 16.5 %
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> Also, on the topic of gyros/accels, you can get a tenfold improvement in some cases with MEMS ones if you use 100 of them.
[20:36] <chris_99> aren't some up to 45% or something
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> (which is admittedly very silly)
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[20:36] <chris_99> haha that's interesting though
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> that's only for lenses/mirrored panels. Typical 'premium' is only 21% or so
[20:37] <chris_99> ah
[20:37] <chris_99> does that require some very fancy algorithms re. the MEMS
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[20:38] <SpeedEvil> Just average all the outputs.
[20:38] <chris_99> oh, i didn't realise you could do that
[20:38] <chris_99> for that kind of thing
[20:38] <chris_99> and get an improvement like that
[20:38] <SpeedEvil> You naively improve it by 1/sqrt(n).
[20:38] <SpeedEvil> For uncorrelated noise.
[20:39] <chris_99> interesting, what's the 1/sqrt(n) from? not heard about that before
[20:40] <bertrik> for electrical S/N improvement I know the explanation, but can't really prove it in general
[20:40] <SpeedEvil> Statistics.
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> Take a constant, add a random number to that, and if you average out enough of the uncorrelated random numbers, you get close to just the constant.
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> I also do not remember the proper mathematical term.
[20:43] <bertrik> if you add two random/uncorrelated signals, the energy of the resulting sum, is the sum of the energy of the input signals, and energy generally scales with the square
[20:44] <bertrik> nevermind, I can't really explain it
[20:48] <chris_99> i'm just looking @ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27879855 they have 4 gyros on a chip by the looks of it, and are using a kallman filter to create a single output
[20:49] <chris_99> the maths for that looks scary, but would that be better than averaging, or..?
[20:53] <SpeedEvil> I'm gonna say no.
[20:53] <SpeedEvil> If you look, you find the performance is twice (half the noise) with the averaging, as the raw bias corrected number
[20:53] <SpeedEvil> Which is 1/sqrt(4)
[20:54] <SpeedEvil> For non-coplanar gyros, yes, you need kalman or something more complex often when there may be significant correlations between inputs
[20:54] <SpeedEvil> Significnat unknown.
[20:55] <chris_99> interesting, cheers
[20:55] <bertrik> as far as I understand, indeed a Kalman filter cannot magically get better than averaging, the trick is that it will adjust itself to weigh the different inputs based on their "quality"
[20:58] <chris_99> neat, how does it know the quality of one is better than the other? (maybe there's no simple explaination for that though)
[21:03] <bertrik> I can't really explain that, not sure if I fully understand it myself to be honest :)
[21:04] <chris_99> no worries, the idea of weighting the different inputs to improve the output, sounds cool though
[21:05] <bertrik> if you have fixed weights, I think it's called a Wien filter
[21:05] <chris_99> aha
[21:06] <bertrik> sorry "Wiener filter" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalized_Wiener_filter
[21:06] <chris_99> cheers , i found https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiener_filter also
[21:06] <bertrik> the one you found is much better yes
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[21:11] <bertrik> it could be that you combine two signals, where one signal is a better estimate at low frequencies, and the other is a better estimate at high frequencies, so the weight can be frequency dependent as well
[21:12] <chris_99> oh, that's very cool, and with the kalman filter, you don't have to apply other things like FFT for it to deduce that?
[21:12] <bertrik> and, as I understand, the kalman filter can estimate the reliability of the signals vs frequency and automatically adjust the weights
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[21:37] <chris_99> http://bilgin.esme.org/BitsAndBytes/KalmanFilterForDummies looks quite nice, i'm gonna look at its references too
[21:39] <bertrik> I think a lot of the texts on kalman filters focus too much on the maths and too little on what the whole purpose is, that one looks nice
[21:49] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BB07 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BB07
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[00:00] --- Fri Apr 3 2020