highaltitude.log.20190729

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[05:33] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BSS22 after 0319 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BSS22
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[05:48] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03ICT3 after 0321 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ICT3
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[10:04] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SITS-2 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SITS-2
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[10:04] <Bozzey> !flights
[10:05] <SpacenearUS> 03Bozzey: Current flights: 03MW high Summer Launch  10(495e), 03BZ around the world 10(62b6)
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[10:40] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03NA1WJ-7 after 0313 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=NA1WJ-7
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[10:54] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03M0RPI_Chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M0RPI_Chase
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[11:34] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03WB8MSJ-9 after 0313 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WB8MSJ-9
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[11:52] <PB0AHX-Herman> !flights
[11:52] <SpacenearUS> 03PB0AHX-Herman: Current flights: 03MW high Summer Launch  10(495e), 03BZ around the world 10(62b6)
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[12:35] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KD0HIP-7 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD0HIP-7
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[13:07] <MedadR> Many of us have launched balloons that have traveled great distances. I have now gotten interested in sending a boat very very far. around the world. Anyone here has considered doing it?
[13:12] <fsphil> that's what I wanted to do before getting into HAB
[13:13] <fsphil> there was #sealevel channel setup for it, but it's inactive these days
[13:27] <daveake> Nice to see the idea floated again
[13:27] <daveake> <gets coat>
[13:28] <russss> I reckon at least 50% of the people in this channel have considered it
[13:28] <russss> around the world would definitely be a challenge though.
[13:29] <daveake> I have a habI made to land at sea and tx back to land via balloon repeater
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[13:33] <fsphil> there's been at least one buoy launched
[13:34] <fsphil> it washed up on an island
[13:39] <MedadR> I really like these long distance missions. Especially if anybody can do them. It is not restricted to large companies
[13:41] <edmoore> MedadR: have a look at microtransat
[13:41] <russss> https://www.microtransat.org/
[13:41] <MedadR> http://www.seacharger.com/ I came across this awesome project where this man sent his boat from America Mainland to Hawaii and then on to NewZealand
[13:41] <russss> heh
[13:42] <MedadR> russss: Yes I have come across the website but there seems to be very few attempts in recent years
[13:42] <edmoore> there's a mailing list
[13:42] <edmoore> it's fairly active
[13:42] <edmoore> there are attempts right now
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[13:44] <SA6BSS-Mike> https://www.qsl.net/zl1rs/oceanfloater.html
[13:44] <MedadR> Wow there are quite a few attempts out there
[13:44] <SA6BSS-Mike> best atamt i heard off
[13:45] <MedadR> SA6BSS-Mike: Yes I have see that as well. It floats where the current takes them
[13:45] <SA6BSS-Mike> then three are thos solar driven gps controlled larger boats as well
[13:46] <russss> there's also literally thousands of autonomous research things, argo floats and slocum gliders
[13:46] <russss> slocum gliders are the coolest IMHO
[13:47] <russss> I reckon it's almost impossible to send a little sailing boat around the world non-stop without something breaking or otherwise getting completely fouled up
[13:47] <edmoore> the latter seems to get everyone
[13:47] <edmoore> assuming they can engineer
[13:49] <MedadR> The slocum gliders look quite interesting. There is an exhibition in the Science Museum in London about autonomous vehicles. It has a number of autonomous flying drones, boats and submarines. Really interesting
[13:49] <edmoore> it's got a black arrow too
[13:49] <edmoore> my favourite autonomous vehicle
[13:51] <MedadR> The rocket?
[13:52] <edmoore> the kind of moth
[13:58] <MedadR> How hard will it be to send a boat around the world? The main failure modes I can see is the failure of the Rudder and propeller
[13:59] <russss> fouling is probably the hardest problem to mitigate - you will get all manner of crap growing on it
[14:00] <russss> and although there are plenty of ways to reduce it, ultimately it will build up and slow you to a standstill
[14:01] <MedadR> fouling on the propellers itself?
[14:01] <russss> on everything
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[14:03] <edmoore> stuff grows on you
[14:03] <edmoore> seaweed tangles you right in the secrets
[14:03] <edmoore> salt water is annoying
[14:04] <russss> there are some good antifouling coatings now which work well *if* you sustain more than 5-7kts
[14:05] <russss> slower than that you'll ultimately turn into some kind of reef regardless
[14:05] <SA6BSS-Mike> :)
[14:06] <russss> solve that problem (...without causing significant ecological damage) and you'll be rich
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[14:06] <edmoore> shed your hull
[14:06] <edmoore> like a crab
[14:07] <fsphil> steal another autonomous boats hull
[14:08] <TT7> there's also one buoy being built currently https://twitter.com/ibelings/status/1132303266468048896
[14:08] <TT7> there are more post about it on that account
[14:08] <MedadR> What about some sort of internal jets to propel the boat. Presumably it will keep away the weeds from tangling up the propellers?
[14:08] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KK6UUQ-7 after 0313 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KK6UUQ-7
[14:09] <SA6BSS-Mike> wow, thats some masive caps!
[14:10] <fsphil> they must be a bit of a pain to charge from empty
[14:11] <edmoore> they have about a billionch the energy density of lipo sadly
[14:11] <edmoore> there's an instructive Mike's Electric Stuff dissassembly of a commercial buoy
[14:11] <edmoore> which uses supercaps
[14:11] <MedadR> I think a good test run(if you are in the UK) would be to send the boat from the coast of Suffolk to Sealand and back. Just to make sure everything(autopilot, mechanical) works
[14:11] <edmoore> from a number of years ago
[14:12] <MedadR> edmoore: I am pretty sure those were D cells. Not super caps
[14:12] <edmoore> in tt7's link?
[14:12] <MedadR> no Mike's electrics Stuff buoy teardown
[14:13] <fsphil> that was definitly a supercap
[14:13] <russss> any kind of propulsion depends on your power budget, and also for reasons I still don't entirely understand longer boats move faster. But you don't want to make your boat too big in case you accidentally end up sinking someone's small yacht.
[14:13] <edmoore> i think the only way you could be pretty sure is if you watched with the sound off and ignored the entire second half of the video that was about supercaps
[14:16] <fsphil> you won't be getting large lumps of metal red hot with D cells
[14:16] <russss> depends how many
[14:16] <fsphil> well, maybe with lots of them
[14:16] <russss> D-cell powered arc welder
[14:19] <MedadR> Ah I had this video in mind. The Sonar transponder https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QK9ZYrqPHfI
[14:20] <MedadR> Not the Satellite bouy teardown which I think you are refering to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY2X-ZQpnvY
[14:20] <TT7> I haven't looked into ocean currents around the world, but the New Zealand buoy spent +400 days just east of Australia
[14:21] <fsphil> I think anything I launch here will just wash up in scotland
[14:21] <edmoore> for circumnavigation i suppose you just lob it into the southern ocean
[14:22] <edmoore> and wait a few days
[14:22] <TT7> fsphil: even a balloon? :)
[14:23] <fsphil> usually yeah, or the irish sea
[14:25] <MedadR> TT7: That twitter link is really interesting. In other news, where did you get your multilayer evoh film from? it is so hard to get it!
[14:25] <MedadR> for your pico balloon
[14:27] <TT7> MedadR: from a local (Czech Republic) company that makes these films for the packaging industry
[14:27] <TT7> https://www.vepak.cz/contacts
[14:29] <TT7> I've bought a 40um film recently and have been working on a homemade heat sealer
[14:29] <MedadR> from the same supplier?
[14:29] <TT7> yes
[14:30] <MedadR> wow 40um is really good isn't it? The thinnest I have seen is 50um
[14:30] <TT7> they call the film TR9 and its PE/PA/EVOH/PA/PE in different thicknesses
[14:30] <MedadR> Thanks for putting all your extensive documentation online. It is really really useful
[14:31] <TT7> I had the same film, but in 50um thickness last time
[14:31] <MedadR> Have you found any PET/EVOH combinations?
[14:32] <MedadR> the yield strength of PE/EVOH combinations seems quite low compared to PET films
[14:32] <TT7> no, the only thing I actually laid my hands on are these two films, plus a 40um PE/EVOH/PE from the same company
[14:36] <TT7> the datasheet for TR9 states minimum of 30/26MPa tensile strength, but I have no means of measuring it more accurately
[14:37] <TT7> it will also vary with temperature
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[14:45] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03NA1WJ-8 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=NA1WJ-8
[14:46] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03K9SDW-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K9SDW-11
[14:57] <nmcc> Dear old BOC are currently only doing new for empty cylinders - so with not quite enough gas for a launch in mine I need a recommendation for a supplier that can get me over the hump. Please dont say Argos, Ive already got one of them.
[14:58] <nmcc> Helium by the way. Hydrogen is not a problem unless youre writing the risk assessment for small children & their helicopter parents.
[14:59] <russss> most other suppliers are more local, I have a few in London for my various gas needs
[14:59] <nmcc> Various?
[15:00] <russss> beer gas, welding gas, etc
[15:00] <russss> all the daily essentials
[15:00] <russss> https://www.londongases.co.uk/ caters for them all
[15:00] <nmcc> Also, is it safe to assume that cubic metres are proportional to pressure - my Hydrogen has a (gold plated) pressure gauge in bar and Id like to figure out what that is in balloon filling terms.
[15:01] <edmoore> yes cubic meter readings are usually quoted for standard temp and pressure
[15:01] <edmoore> you won't get it all out of course
[15:01] <nmcc> I doubt they deliver to the top of Derbyshire, but I can use it as a price guide.
[15:01] <russss> that is the case for H2/He but not for CO2/propane or anything else which liquifies under storage pressure
[15:02] <nmcc> Ah, yes, now I understand where my head had taken a left turn!
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[15:35] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03OnFoot_Chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=OnFoot_Chase
[15:36] <nmcc> BOC have relented - £80 of gas in a cylinder I pay rental on - the force of my arguement was unassailable.
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[15:58] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03U3B-25 after 036 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=U3B-25
[16:02] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03MWHS4345 after 0319 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MWHS4345
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[17:26] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KB6CAG-3 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KB6CAG-3
[17:48] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03U3B-27 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=U3B-27
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[19:37] <chris_99> russss: 'there are some good antifouling coatings now which work well *if* you sustain more than 5-7kts' -- maybe kind of related , i was just reading this today https://qz.com/india/1673557/indian-scientists-use-mango-leaf-to-prevent-ships-from-rusting/ seems it hasn't really been tested outside a lab yet though iirc
[19:48] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SQ9MOA - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SQ9MOA
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[20:18] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03ICT3 after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ICT3
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[21:57] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BSS22 after 0313 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BSS22
[22:08] <russss> chris_99: yeah but that's anticorrosion rather than antifouling, different (but still important)
[22:09] <russss> anticorrosion is important on bigger ships where it seems like sacrificial anodes are too labour intensive to maintain
[22:22] <MedadR> Anyone here uses non-ublox gps chips on their trackers?
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[00:00] --- Tue Jul 30 2019