highaltitude.log.20190724

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[02:27] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03U3B-25 after 036 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=U3B-25
[02:58] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03U3B-27 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=U3B-27
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[06:47] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03STELLA21 after 0316 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=STELLA21
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[06:53] <BillH> Testing access to #highaltitude for payload flight doc authorisation Callsign Apollo_50_EX
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[07:29] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KD2KPZ-11 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD2KPZ-11
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[07:55] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BSS21 after 0317 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BSS21
[08:02] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03MAGNU - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MAGNU
[08:23] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03STELLA22 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=STELLA22
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[08:55] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BSS22 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BSS22
[09:08] <SA6BSS-Mike> BSS22 is ups wspr and qrss on 20m
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[09:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03K6DWA-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K6DWA-11
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[11:29] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SITS-0 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SITS-0
[11:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK5LJG-9_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VK5LJG-9_chase
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[12:21] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KD0HIP-7 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD0HIP-7
[12:45] <PE2BZ> Yesterday I did fill a foil balloon (burstfree type) with air, twisted the filling tube, folded it and closed it with a ty-rap. 24 hours later the cirumference is 7 cm less Anyone knows if this is common ?
[12:49] <Phil_M0DNY> People have reported it, I think the common solution was to fill the filling tube with glue.
[12:49] <Phil_M0DNY> as it's foil, twisting it actually creates more chance of small cavities, as it doesn't squeeze like latex.
[12:51] <nmcc> And if your local air pressure has gone up over night, air will be squeezed out and then when it comes back down it will leave the balloon soggy. Temp of air in & out will be a factor too.
[13:08] <Phil_M0DNY> if your local air pressure has gone down, yes. I wouldn't expect that to cause a 7cm difference though.
[13:09] <Phil_M0DNY> likely just leakage
[13:11] <PE2BZ> Thanks ! So, I should fill the balloon with HE tomorrow morning, use one tyrap to be able to glue the neck, maybe remove the tyrap after that
[13:12] Action: PE2BZ should not forget to tie the payload to the balloon
[13:12] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03W5CFI - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W5CFI
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[13:24] <nmcc> Rising air pressure will accelerate leakage. I see a school science project in the making here!
[13:26] <Phil_M0DNY> rising air pressure will make the inflated volume of the ballon smaller, putting less stress on the envelope.
[13:26] <nmcc> And push out air until it equalises?
[13:27] <fsphil> I'd imagine the air's more likely to escape if the outside pressure dropped
[13:27] <Phil_M0DNY> unless you're at superpressure, the pressure inside and outside the balloon is the same, and the envelope will expand and contract to equalise it
[13:27] <Phil_M0DNY> for a nonrigid balloon, such as latex or foil
[13:28] <nmcc> School science project is code for oh god, my brain is broken, best get younger minds to figure this out
[13:28] <Phil_M0DNY> :)
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[13:28] <Phil_M0DNY> come to the ukhas conference, we often talk about the science of this :)
[13:28] <nmcc> I am
[13:29] <Phil_M0DNY> and have heated discussions :D
[13:29] <Phil_M0DNY> great, see you there!
[13:29] <fsphil> I still struggle with the basic question of why a helium/hydrogen balloon rises
[13:29] <nmcc> Id definitely expect air to escape if the outside pressure dropped.
[13:29] <fsphil> is it a difference in pressure between the bottom and the top?
[13:30] <nmcc> Assuming a perfect sphere &
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[13:30] <Phil_M0DNY> nmcc: assuming that the envelope is at limits of expansion, then that pressure differential will build and likely cause leakage yep.
[13:31] <PE2BZ> fsphil seriously ?
[13:43] <daveake> fsphil yes
[13:44] <daveake> The cause is the pressure difference
[13:45] <daveake> So for a level cube balloon (hah), take the area at the bottom, times pressure difference between top and bottom, = buoyancy
[13:45] <fsphil> I find it hard to visualise
[13:46] <daveake> For a balloon you treat as many tall thin (whatever a long thin square is) and integrate
[13:46] <daveake> and ofc the answer = weight of displaced fluid
[13:46] <daveake> because magic
[13:46] <nmcc> And for your next trick, explain the burst formula
[13:46] <daveake> but yes the physical left is air pressure differential
[13:46] <daveake> lift
[13:50] <fsphil> I think my mistake is considering the gas inside. I shouldn't, it makes no difference to the force the atmosphere puts on the balloon. it just affects the weight
[13:50] <daveake> Well it affects the size and shape of the balloon :)
[13:50] <chris_99> the pressure is actually different at the bottom and top? i didn't realise that
[13:50] <daveake> yup
[13:50] <daveake> That is why balloons go up
[13:52] <chris_99> i thought it was just the helium was lighter than air, didn't know about this
[13:52] <fsphil> it's that too
[13:52] <fsphil> two separate effects
[13:52] <chris_99> what's the presure difference effect called?
[13:52] <daveake> Buoyancy :)
[13:52] <chris_99> ah heh, ta
[13:53] <daveake> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buoyancy :)
[13:54] <fsphil> hard to imagine the slight difference in pressure from the bottom to the top of a balloon is enough
[13:54] <daveake> Indeed
[13:54] <daveake> But the weight of that air is what causes the pressure change
[13:55] <chris_99> so the bottom has higher pressure than the top right?
[13:55] <fsphil> or, it's on the balloon rising it's the air falling around it
[13:55] <daveake> yes air pressure reduces with altitude
[13:55] <fsphil> air pressure drops with altitude
[13:55] <daveake> The pressure it there because of the weight of the air column above
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[14:03] <chris_99> sorry i think i misunderstood, you mean the air pressure outside the balloon, from bottom to top is different?
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[14:10] <fsphil> yep
[14:12] <chris_99> but there would also be a tiny difference in pressure internal to the balloon too i assume?
[14:13] <fsphil> makes sense
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[14:22] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03NA1WJ-6 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=NA1WJ-6
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[15:18] <PE2BZ> About the leaking foil balloon: PC4L suggested to put the neck in a can of water..... Blub ..... Blub ..... Blub..... which continued after 5 minutes, so point taken.... Glue the neck tomorrow :-)
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[15:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VE5AA-2 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VE5AA-2
[15:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VE5AA-14 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VE5AA-14
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[17:19] <SM0ULC-David> :)
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[18:53] Action: Pit[m] uploaded an image: Screenshot_2019-07-24-18-33-19-540_com.mxtech.videoplayer.pro.png (98KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/audXxeOmzVVzLsluZjTRLEcm >
[18:54] <Pit[m]> DFM landed 150m from my home. That's a so called jackpot I think
[19:06] <Pit[m]> Sondehub predict was actual garbage. Something is wrong.
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[19:20] <happysat> this one https://radiosondy.info/sonde_archive.php?sondenumber=DF942B6D ?
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[19:24] Nick change: dg2fs1 -> dg2fs
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[19:40] <Pit[m]> Yes
[20:00] <happysat> nice :)
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[20:41] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03U3B-27 after 0317 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=U3B-27
[20:45] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03TA2MUN-14 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=TA2MUN-14
[21:01] <fsphil> random RocketBoy on BBC 4 just now. the james may glider episode from a few years back
[21:06] <daveake> :)
[21:19] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03pa5rob_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=pa5rob_chase
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[21:51] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PC4L-HAB - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PC4L-HAB
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[22:14] <daveake> SpaceX Dragon flight in 10 mins https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Wa3EDUuP5I
[22:15] <BillH> Just finished (well not quite) setting up for tomorrows HAB workshop. Need to get flight docs sorted I did submit it? Anyone seen it. Call sign is Apollo_50_EX and VINCENT. One more to do tomorrow.
[22:16] <daveake> Submitted? In #habhub?
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[22:21] <Bryanstein> I've been watching the balloons from the spacecoast and they look like they're pushes outwards towards the coast. Some barely come inland and got right back out to sea
[22:23] <bertrik> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Wa3EDUuP5I&feature=youtu.be CRS-18 in 1 minute
[22:23] <SIbot> In real units: 18 in = 45.72 cm
[22:23] <Darkside> weather is nogo though
[22:24] <Darkside> or, it was
[22:24] <Darkside> loooool sibot
[22:24] <fsphil> tropical depression. we've all been there
[22:24] <BillH> Yes I did a genpayload Payload Document and Flight Document
[22:25] <Darkside> BillH: you need to past ethe flight document ID into #habhub
[22:25] <Darkside> else it won't get approved
[22:25] <BillH> Might need your help with it tomorrow Dave
[22:25] <daveake> I'm not an admin; you need to post the flight ID in #habhub and ask
[22:26] <BillH> Took me two hours to clean the hall!! Before I started setting up.
[22:26] <Darkside> you need to get the docs approved ASAP
[22:26] <Darkside> not on the launch day
[22:26] <daveake> Do it now just takes seconds to ask
[22:26] <BillH> Sorry for being dumb, and I dont have the guide with me, is that #habhub another irc channel.
[22:27] <Darkside> if you come into habhub asking for a doc to be approved 30 min before launch you will likely find either no-one around to approve it, or people reluctant to approve it
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[22:27] <BillH> The launch is Friday (if wind changes)
[22:27] <Bryanstein> Darkside, you have any interest in the 8 bit mcu in these LMS6's?
[22:28] <Darkside> Bryanstein: zero whatsoever :P
[22:28] <Darkside> oooooold design
[22:28] <Bryanstein> lol I figured...it's super old. I'd have to either pay almost 100 dollars or build a programmer just to fiddle with them
[22:29] <daveake> #habhub is a channel; just click on it that should take you there
[22:29] <daveake> probably
[22:29] <Bryanstein> Major waste of time but for some it keeps calling me.
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[22:29] <daveake> oh
[22:29] <Bryanstein> s/for some/for some reason
[22:30] <Bryanstein> I'm also building a biquad so I can see if I can hit some of the 1680 sondes in jacksonville
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[22:30] <Bryanstein> Also if Tampa has any but I think all the Tampa sondes go back out to see. Well with today's weather they'd all come inland
[22:31] <Bryanstein> s/see/sea
[22:32] <Darkside> theres a map somewhere... hang on
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[23:25] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK5LJG-9_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VK5LJG-9_chase
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[00:00] --- Thu Jul 25 2019