highaltitude.log.20190610

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[06:56] <Lahti> Darkside: https://tracker.sondehub.org/?sondehub=1#!mt=satellite&mz=20&qm=All&mc=60.28274,24.8795&f=RS_P4420028&q=RS_P4420028
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[06:58] <Lahti> https://tracker.sondehub.org/?sondehub=1#!mt=satellite&mz=19&qm=All&mc=60.28276,24.87958&f=RS_R2230994&q=RS_R2230994
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[07:35] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03TA2MUN-11 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=TA2MUN-11
[07:39] FireFighter (~firefight@2601:44:4200:ab4f:e882:2b32:1ccd:1b97) joined #highaltitude.
[07:54] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DG1YIQ_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DG1YIQ_chase
[08:10] <daveake> Sorry about cancelled flight guys ... the chap who was supposed to be coming along to film for his magazine decided to let me do it all by myself.
[08:10] <daveake> I had a different view.
[08:11] <Darkside> yeah
[08:27] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SITS-3 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SITS-3
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[09:54] <Bozzy> !flights
[09:54] <SpacenearUS> 03Bozzy: Current flights: 03APOLLO 50 10(d852), 03QUB X Cloudchaser 10(922b)
[10:23] <PE2BZ> Apollo 50 has been postponed Bozzy
[10:26] <fsphil> I've missed Apollo's 18 to 49
[10:26] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03AZUBI_DE after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AZUBI_DE
[10:26] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03QUB-XL after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=QUB-XL
[10:28] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03QUB-X after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=QUB-X
[10:31] <fsphil> looks like the QUB flight is going ahead
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[11:12] <Bozzy> Thanks PE2BZ will it launch today or another day?
[11:13] <fsphil> QUB are up
[11:17] <fsphil> they might have the rtty and lora too close
[11:23] <G8DVR> QUBGL3 need to set their local co-ordinates!
[11:29] <fsphil> no ssdv, aww :(
[11:38] <daveake> Bozzy: The Apollo one hopefully will fly on anniversary of the Apollo 11 launch next month
[11:39] <Bozzy> Thanks
[11:41] <G8DVR> QUBX USB 434.350,2 350Bd 750Hz shift>
[11:41] <fsphil> the predictor is misbehaving with this flight
[11:42] <fsphil> it's 150 baud, 700 hz shift
[11:42] <G8DVR> SRI 150Baud>
[11:46] <Darkside> fsphil: see that email about the german guys proposing wenet/ssdv mode?
[11:46] <Darkside> mods*
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[11:53] <fsphil> Darkside: yep. I meant to reply to that, totally forgot
[11:54] <Darkside> i wish he would release his changes
[11:54] <Darkside> anyway, bedtime for me, gnight
[11:55] <fsphil> nite!
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[12:02] <michal_f> Upu ping
[12:05] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DK0WT-4FSK - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DK0WT-4FSK
[12:08] <Upu> hey michal_f
[12:08] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DaveX_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DaveX_chase
[12:08] <michal_f> hi :) a quick question !
[12:08] <michal_f> so I have this precious: https://store.uputronics.com/image/cache/catalog/GPS-Modules/IMG_0095-500x500-1140x380.JPG
[12:08] <Upu> it is we can't make those any more
[12:08] <michal_f> but I damaged Vcc trace while desoldering pins. Is there any other place I can solder wire with Vcc ?
[12:09] <Upu> 1 sec phone
[12:09] <michal_f> ok. I'm at work too
[12:10] <Upu> pm me a close up pic
[12:11] <michal_f> ok I will when I get home
[12:11] <michal_f> I pulled the pins too hard and that round part peeled off
[12:14] <daveake> Oops. Usually customers just send them back with "This thing you sold me doesn't work!"
[12:15] <Upu> there are a few places you can solder too
[12:15] <Upu> one of the legs on the SOT-23 package
[12:15] <Upu> as thats the 5 -> 3.3V regulator
[12:16] <michal_f> can I send you a closeup photo and you mark the place for me please ?
[12:16] <Upu> cure
[12:16] <Upu> sure
[12:16] <michal_f> great, thanks :)
[12:16] <Upu> just finding the design hang on
[12:17] <michal_f> daveake, do be too hard on me :) I'm lame on soldering
[12:17] <daveake> :)
[12:22] <fsphil> I'm struggling to decode this QUB flight
[12:22] <Upu> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/Jpr9m0Zj/image.png
[12:23] <Upu> anywhere highlighted
[12:23] <fsphil> ah it's burst, that's why
[12:23] <Upu> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/RUhyJduz/image.png
[12:25] <michal_f> thanks! will try when I get home
[12:36] <PE2BZ> Tomorrow STM in the sky should take place, in France. Info (and live stream ?) on https://blog.st.com/stm32-in-the-sky-high/?fbclid=IwAR1mrS_GjU3tedmOyzpEIC4r-2hhmxUTGzhPobOay6LXlLFzfcPJv-cBcdQ
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[12:41] <craag> interesting
[12:49] <fsphil> ah an official ST launch
[12:50] <fsphil> oh habhub's doing the time lag thing again
[12:50] <fsphil> about 5 minutes
[12:55] <chris_99> ooh interesting
[12:56] <chris_99> am i right in thinking sometimes the balloon is cut off the payload, automagically, not sure the reason why, or am i imagining that
[13:00] <fsphil> a cut-down device is sometimes used if you can't rely on the balloon bursting when you want it to
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[13:02] <chris_99> ah cheers, that's the term
[13:02] <chris_99> i was looking for
[13:03] <chris_99> maybe a highly questionable way to do that, would be to ignite it ;)
[13:05] <fsphil> some of the cut-down devices are pyros, so it's not that odd :)
[13:05] <chris_99> oh intriguing!
[13:05] <chris_99> do some of them use a wax type thing + nichrome?
[13:06] <fsphil> nichrome wire is sometimes used to melt the cord
[13:06] <chris_99> oh directly melt the coord? didn't know that'd work
[13:06] <russss> or e-matches
[13:06] <chris_99> oh i have something like that for a model rocket thing
[13:07] <russss> if there's strain on the cord it doesn't take much heat to break it
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[13:08] <chris_99> the coord is some kind of nylon maybe
[13:08] <chris_99> rather than cotton i guess
[13:10] <daveake> Usually Nylon yes
[13:10] <chris_99> makes sense. i was thinking cotton could burn
[13:10] <daveake> Lack of oxygen
[13:10] <chris_99> oh yeah, doh
[13:10] <daveake> There are other plastic braided cords you can use, with a lower melting point
[13:10] <chris_99> on that note, has anyone used an O2 sensor
[13:11] <chris_99> to measure it in ppm
[13:11] <chris_99> and CO2 also would be interesting
[13:11] <fsphil> QUB have a nice easy recovery from the looks of it. unless that field is full of lions. you never know
[13:13] <bertrik> the cheapish CO2 meters have a kind of variable baseline that is calibrated every 48h against 400 ppm or so
[13:13] <chris_99> yeah, ive used an NDIR one
[13:13] <bertrik> also I think the measurement depends on density of air
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[13:13] <bertrik> which it assumes is constant (as far as I know)
[13:13] <chris_99> oh
[13:13] <chris_99> interesting
[13:14] <russss> one assumes they all basically measure partial pressure, so at low atmospheric pressures they may be out of their range
[13:15] <bertrik> chris_99: I tried a UV sensor once, a few years ago, but the measurement was quite hard to interpret because it varied mostly by the movement of the balloon
[13:16] <bertrik> and it had a kind of homebrew pre-amp, of which I'm not completely sure that it was OK
[13:16] <chris_99> ahh. Could you use very long poles that jut out of the payload?
[13:16] <chris_99> if the balloon obstructed the UV i mean
[13:16] <bertrik> but the idea was to take two UV diodes, cover one of them with a piece of glass (which should stop UV) and compare the signals
[13:17] <chris_99> oh neat
[13:17] <bertrik> every other influence (temperature, etc) should have the same impact on both sensors, to a first degree
[13:17] <chris_99> mm
[13:20] <chris_99> im just thinking about the CO2 thing, it shines a light, through a chamber, and has a filter + photodiode, so i think the amplitude of voltage depends on co2 particles in the chamber, i'm wondering why density of air matters?
[13:21] <bertrik> simply fewer CO2 molecules to absorb the light at lower pressure
[13:21] <russss> the density means that the amount of CO2 in the chamber is much less so presumably you'll get a much smaller signal
[13:21] <SIbot> In real units: 2 in = 5.08 cm
[13:21] <russss> not quite, SIbot
[13:22] <chris_99> but if there's just fewer molecules, won't you just get a lower reading
[13:22] <chris_99> like lower ppm
[13:22] <chris_99> i mean
[13:22] <russss> yes, but it might not be able to accurately read such a low ppm
[13:22] <chris_99> ohh
[13:22] <chris_99> sorry
[13:22] <russss> and yeah, the ppm will presumably be erroneous because it probably assumes sea level air pressure
[13:23] <chris_99> oh, so co2 could be < 400ppm or so at high alt? the sensor i used only worked to 400pm
[13:23] <chris_99> *ppm at lowest i think
[13:24] <chris_99> just found a little table - http://www.bapihvac.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Altitude_Temperature_CO2_ALC.pdf
[13:24] <chris_99> 10,000 feet it says 688ppm as an idea
[13:24] <SIbot> In real units: 10,000 ft = 3048 m
[13:24] <russss> if it's measuring an absolute amount of CO2 then the ppm value will be wrong, because it assumes there's more air present then there actually is
[13:25] <russss> that PDF appears to say that
[13:25] <chris_99> yeah, https://www.co2meter.com/blogs/news/127454855-altitude-compensation-for-co2-sensor-modules also mentions about that
[13:26] <russss> as the pressure drops, it will under-read the CO2 concentration
[13:28] <chris_99> i wonder if there's a way to measure all air particles then, to do the compensation automagically
[13:29] <russss> well that's just the absolute air pressure
[13:29] <russss> but that assumes the sensor is sensitive enough to pick up that amount of CO2
[13:30] <russss> at 20km the air pressure is 5% of sea level, so if the CO2 level is 600ppm your apparent reading will be 30ppm
[13:31] <russss> I assume there must be reasonably cost-effective ways of doing this though because presumably there are met balloons which read CO2
[13:31] <chris_99> theoretically could you not do spectroscopy for all gases, then you wouldn't need a pressure sensor, i _think_ ?
[13:33] <russss> theoretically yes, economically no, I think
[13:33] <chris_99> mm
[13:34] <chris_99> just found this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nondispersive_infrared_sensor seems you can do NDIR for lots of gases, which i didn't realise
[13:34] <chris_99> H2O would be neat to do
[13:37] <bertrik> so, a CO2 sensor reads one very specific wavelength, would be nice if you could read a bunch of those in parallel
[13:37] <chris_99> mm that's what i wwas thinking
[13:37] <chris_99> like N2O, O2 etc
[13:37] <chris_99> not n2o sorry
[13:37] <chris_99> N2 i guess
[13:41] <chris_99> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourier-transform_infrared_spectroscopy is kind of that, which it linked to, but might be very complex i guess, seems to use a polychromatic light source
[13:43] <bertrik> the simple ndir co2 meters use a broadband light and a narrowband filter, as I understood
[13:44] <bertrik> so with a single glow bulb with wide spectrum and a bunch of narrow band filters, it should be possible
[13:44] <chris_99> oh , i thought it was a narrow bandpass filter + ir led
[13:44] <chris_99> not sure what the drop off is from the led wavelength
[13:45] <chris_99> oh yes that's a good point
[13:45] <chris_99> using mult filters
[13:45] <chris_99> i bought some photodiodes with filters
[13:45] <chris_99> fairly recently
[13:45] <chris_99> one sec
[13:46] <bertrik> chris_99: I'm not completely sure, looked light a glow bulb to me, but could also be a LED
[13:46] <chris_99> ahh
[13:46] <bertrik> you can see it glow when it's measuring
[13:46] <chris_99> https://www.intorfilters.com/
[13:46] <chris_99> oh thta's true
[13:46] <chris_99> it glows red
[13:46] <chris_99> good point
[13:47] <chris_99> they were pretty helpful in selecting the right filter for me etc.
[14:15] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CHANGEME - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CHANGEME
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[16:05] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KM6BWB-3 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KM6BWB-3
[16:42] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CAEN_CP1 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CAEN_CP1
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[18:37] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03WA3ITR-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WA3ITR-11
[18:49] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03U3B-25 after 0313 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=U3B-25
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[19:22] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ALTRIPREP - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ALTRIPREP
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[19:29] <MW1MDH> Hi all - 2nd Attempt! - Could you please approve flight "a0e9f5ce5ffe63ccf6dfe47eecd746b1" - Callsign "Altriprep" - Pareser logtail is showing as RX!..THanks!
[19:29] <SIbot> In real units: 1 in = 2.54 cm
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[19:35] <MW1MDH> Hi all - 2nd Attempt! - Could you please approve flight "a0e9f5ce5ffe63ccf6dfe47eecd746b1" - Callsign "Altriprep" - Pareser logtail is showing as RX!..THanks!
[19:35] <SIbot> In real units: 1 in = 2.54 cm
[19:38] <MW1MDH> Sorry..thought it had gone in Habhub..D'Oh!
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[19:59] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KI7NYA-11 after 039 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KI7NYA-11
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[20:12] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SWHS_HAB - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SWHS_HAB
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[20:37] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03MWH01 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MWH01
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[00:00] --- Tue Jun 11 2019