highaltitude.log.20190527

[00:49] <Ian_> Interesting about the satellite spreading. As they are moved into a slightly higher orbit, they will travel slower than their companions, and so effectively each is moved higher in it's turn and even a few hundred metres higher will cause a speed differential,
[00:50] <Ian_> so that when the next moves up to the same orbit, it will also be going at the same slower speed, but will be ahead of the earlier one. Neat; I wish that I really understood orbital manoeuvring geometry
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[02:04] <SpeedEvil> In principle they could do damn near anything.
[02:04] <SpeedEvil> Elon has specifically said that with 250kg propellant, they can get to low mars orbit. (well, implied if you carefully read between the lines).
[02:05] <SpeedEvil> But 25kg of propellant gives them enough to change to one plane over in the constellation.
[02:05] <SpeedEvil> If you assume the ion engines can in fact do 3kW, they should be capable of around 1mm/s^2.
[02:13] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PY2UEP-4FSK - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PY2UEP-4FSK
[02:23] <M0JCU> HADT1 is aiming to launch at about 08:00 UTC from Kiruna, Sweden.
[02:23] <M0JCU> Any listeners would be welcome!
[02:56] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Py2uepMovel_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Py2uepMovel_chase
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[05:04] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03YO4SJI-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YO4SJI-11
[05:42] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03ICT1 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ICT1
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[06:15] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK5ST_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VK5ST_chase
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[07:12] <M0JCU> ... and HADT1 postponed until tomorrow.
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[11:19] <SpeedEvil> Alas the starlink user terminals seem likely to be >>2kg even strippe down, so won't work so well for payloads.
[11:20] <chris_99> what frequency do they use out of interest
[11:22] Nick change: sumie-dh_ -> sumie-dh
[11:23] <SpeedEvil> Ku band.
[11:24] <SpeedEvil> 12-18GHz
[11:24] <chris_99> ah cheers
[11:25] <chris_99> they are designed for providing internet right? is there any rough information on Mbps you might get with them?
[11:25] <SpeedEvil> >>10mbps per user.
[11:25] <SpeedEvil> It's aimed at 'good broadband' very low latency eventually.
[11:26] <chris_99> cool
[11:26] <chris_99> most sat broadband at the mo' is using geostationary sats right?
[11:26] <SpeedEvil> yeah, or low earth and very expensive in comparison.
[11:26] <chris_99> aha
[11:27] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PJw6hvMhhQ&list=PLXxoQ6PzwasnOjjgC3kzgEWirt4l4RROV&index=2&t=0s - the very visible train is making good showings over the US and EU at teh moment
[11:27] <chris_99> yeah i thought that looked very cool
[11:27] <SpeedEvil> https://celestrak.com/cesium/orbit-viz.php?tle=/NORAD/elements/starlink.txt&satcat=/pub/satcat.txt&orbits=25&pixelSize=3&samplesPerPeriod=90&referenceFrame=1
[11:28] <chris_99> do you think it would be possible to get a device to tx/rx with them, using much less weight than 2kg?
[11:28] <chris_99> oh and that visualisation
[11:28] <chris_99> is awesome
[11:29] <SpeedEvil> ...
[11:30] <SpeedEvil> It's going to be almost certainly highly encrypted auth sequence, and require very high bandwidth comms.
[11:30] <SpeedEvil> It might be possible to lose the phased array and put in a very light dish, but the system is really not designed for working to 'phone' class devices.
[11:31] <chris_99> ahh
[11:31] <SpeedEvil> I suspect not.
[11:31] <chris_99> i didn't realise it required
[11:31] <chris_99> a dish
[11:31] <SpeedEvil> It's a pizza box shaped thing with a phased array in it normally.
[11:56] <russss> they filed a patent (which is unusual for spacex) for some phased array antenna
[11:56] <russss> https://patents.google.com/patent/US20180241122A1/en
[11:58] <chris_99> oh interesting
[11:58] <chris_99> i was just looking at that kickstarter again that claims to let you use lora from space, but on twitter, people are saying that would be illegal for some reason
[11:59] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03U3S33 after 0319 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=U3S33
[12:02] <russss> but yeah for balloons you want low data rate and lighter weight/smaller antennas. Iridium does that better, but the terminal equipment is still rather expensive
[12:03] <chris_99> it's fairly light though right
[12:03] <russss> 32g + antenna https://www.iridium.com/products/iridium-core-9523/
[12:03] <chris_99> ooh cool
[12:03] <SpeedEvil> Starlink would make it possible to put SDRs basically anywhere there is land easily though.
[12:04] <SpeedEvil> Even without conventional internet connectivity.
[12:04] <SpeedEvil> But, a proper constellation is obviously better.
[12:04] <russss> chris_99: the only place I can immediately find to buy that charges £834.86 though
[12:04] <chris_99> oh eek
[12:04] <chris_99> i thought i saw something for iridium that was 100 - 200
[12:04] <russss> $995 MSRP
[12:05] <russss> well, there's the old SPOT hack
[12:05] <SpeedEvil> I assume it is not plausible toclone a receiver?
[12:06] <chris_99> something there for example - https://www.sparkfun.com/categories/338
[12:06] <chris_99> but you wouldn't really want to lose something like that
[12:06] <russss> oh yeah I forgot about the RockBlock
[12:07] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03stm32_ecm_bkp - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=stm32_ecm_bkp
[12:07] <chris_99> there's nothing really that would be suitable for video is there, via sat, from a balloon?
[12:08] <russss> nope. Video would require more bandwidth, hence more gain, hence more power/weight
[12:09] <chris_99> mm
[12:10] <russss> and at any rate satellite terminals which support that level of bandwidth are very expensive
[12:11] <chris_99> i'm kind of curious if lasers could be feasibly be used for tx/rx from a balloon
[12:13] <SpeedEvil> Yes.
[12:13] <SpeedEvil> Twinkling is a problem.
[12:13] <chris_99> twinkling?
[12:13] <SpeedEvil> As in little stars.
[12:14] <SpeedEvil> 'speckle' - small sources have peaks and nulls which as the atmosphere moves and the source move null out at times.
[12:15] <SpeedEvil> I have wondered of something rather simple - like a 10 degree or so roughly pointed 5W peak LASER, and a small telescope + filter.
[12:15] <SpeedEvil> Trying to point it actually accurately is hard
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[12:18] <chris_99> just to clarify, you mean the gases in the atmosphere, as they're moving cause that 'speckle'?
[12:23] <chris_99> or is it due to water
[12:36] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KD5GOM-11 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD5GOM-11
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[13:42] <SpeedEvil> chris_99: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speckle_pattern gasses in motion, not rain.
[13:42] <SpeedEvil> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinkling
[13:43] <chris_99> cheers
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[13:51] <G6ZKC> Anybody tracking RS_RS0101400081
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[14:46] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PeakL - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PeakL
[14:50] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03CLOUD1 after 0313 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CLOUD1
[14:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PeakR - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PeakR
[14:55] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Nicks_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Nicks_chase
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[15:20] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03jp-tracker after 0311 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=jp-tracker
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[18:07] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SOLAR-WL - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SOLAR-WL
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[18:10] <PE2BZ> !track SOLAR-WL
[18:10] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Here you go - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SOLAR-WL
[18:10] <PE2BZ> Hi, is there any way to find the payload name I used for the tracker currently known as SOLAR-WL ?
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[18:12] <PE2BZ> found it: <PE2BZ> testing 74df4ba49870f7cbe92d18c1dc0e0bed
[18:12] <PE2BZ> <SpacenearUS> Payload config Pico-solar-BZ (0bed)
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[19:50] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PISKY after 037 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PISKY
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[20:37] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03VORTEX1 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VORTEX1
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[20:40] <M0JCU> We are trying again tonight for HADT1. Estimated launch time is 04:00 CET ISH.
[20:41] <bertrik> hi M0JCU, wow, why such an early time?
[20:41] <M0JCU> Winds are lowest during the night
[20:42] <M0JCU> The balloon is huge so we can't deal with high winds (high is >4m/s)
[20:58] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03MARS2018 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MARS2018
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[21:53] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03AD4XX-11 after 033 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AD4XX-11
[21:58] <daveake> HAB flight replaying live (tracker --> gateway ------> web app) https://youtu.be/AviO0e2CG50
[22:00] <Darkside> yay cesium
[22:01] <daveake> :)
[22:01] <daveake> used it ?
[22:04] <Darkside> barely
[22:04] <Darkside> but i have seen it used for some amazing things
[22:05] <daveake> or this
[22:05] <daveake> :D
[22:05] <Darkside> have you watched a recent spacex launch?
[22:05] <Darkside> pretty sure their flight path animations are done in cesium
[22:06] <daveake> or kerbal :D
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[22:17] <michal_f> the camera pans around, is this from a heading reading from payload ?
[22:18] <daveake> Just fixed right now, but yes it will be
[22:19] <michal_f> that's cool
[22:19] <michal_f> how many updates per second will you get ?
[22:20] <Darkside> oh hmm, actual fused 9DOF heading, or just GPS heading
[22:20] <daveake> That's one every couple of seconds. Could go a lot faster
[22:20] <daveake> former
[22:20] <Darkside> i suspect displaying 9DOF heading might get a bit disorienting
[22:20] <daveake> Yeah I think so
[22:20] <michal_f> what's 9dof heading ?
[22:21] <daveake> fused heading from compass/accel/gyro
[22:21] <Darkside> michal_f: fused heading from a magnetometer, gyroscope, and accelerometer
[22:21] <Darkside> snap
[22:21] <daveake> hah
[22:21] <michal_f> ohh ok
[22:21] <daveake> I have a Bosch thing that does that onboard
[22:21] <Darkside> daveake: we found that the update rates really need to be >1Hz to get a true picture of the payload motion
[22:22] <daveake> Yeah I can do a few Hz
[22:22] <daveake> But I think in the end it'll be uncomfortable to watch
[22:22] <Darkside> definitely
[22:23] <Darkside> i suspect you'd be better off just using the GPS heading
[22:23] <Darkside> it would at least be smoother
[22:23] <daveake> Yeah
[22:23] <daveake> Or just fake it with a sine wave
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[23:51] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03M0RPI_Chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M0RPI_Chase
[00:00] --- Tue May 28 2019