highaltitude.log.20190417

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[05:03] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03YO4SJI-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YO4SJI-11
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[06:21] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KG7VFC-11 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KG7VFC-11
[06:40] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03GLAUB40 after 0320 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=GLAUB40
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[07:30] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Tablet_Chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Tablet_Chase
[07:30] <TimMc_> mwheeler: got the ozonesonde today?
[07:31] <TimMc_> 5 sondes so far in Melbourne on 400.5 401.4 401.5 402 402.5
[07:32] <mwheeler> TimMc_: nah, working today
[07:40] <mwheeler> ozone was two sondes on same box again
[07:40] <mwheeler> likely pretty recoverable too if i could have been out there
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[10:26] <TimMc_> 6 launches in Melbourne so far :O I wonder if they're aiming for some kind of record :-P
[10:26] <Darkside> haha
[10:42] <chris_99> out of interest, how much do the 4 radial 'poles' i think that's the term, on a colinear antenna matter?
[10:42] <Darkside> depends on the design..
[10:43] <Darkside> many co-linear designs are supposed to be ground independent
[10:43] <chris_99> ah
[10:43] <russss> an actual colinear doesn't need radials
[10:43] <russss> because it's an array of dipoles
[10:43] <Darkside> but then you see weird shit like the diamond X-50 and others
[10:43] <chris_99> radial is the right term that i used, for the four wires on the bottom right?
[10:43] <Darkside> yes
[10:43] <chris_99> cheers
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[10:45] <craag> when you have radials it's because the bottom dipole is a 1/4wave, doesn't matter for the rest of the elements
[10:46] <craag> means you don't have to mess around with a balun is the most common reason
[10:46] <russss> aha
[10:46] <russss> maybe something to do with bandwidth too?
[10:49] <craag> yeah the radials bit is mostly frequency-agnostic, and the rest can even function as just a single 1/4 wave on the lower frequencies
[10:51] <SA6BSS-Mike> chris_99: the "radials" are not radials on the cloniear but decouplers
[10:51] <SA6BSS-Mike> keeping rf from getting back on the coax
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[10:52] <chris_99> you mean when it's transmitting?
[10:52] <SA6BSS-Mike> yes
[10:52] <chris_99> ahh
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[10:52] <chris_99> so for rx, it's not important then?
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[10:52] <SA6BSS-Mike> probably not
[10:52] <SA6BSS-Mike> maby it shileds some noise from the house, dont know
[10:52] <chris_99> gotcha
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[11:19] <TimMc_> 8 radiosondes in Melbourne today :O
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[12:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03E2 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=E2
[12:11] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03MARS2018 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MARS2018
[12:14] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SSTAR0301 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SSTAR0301
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[12:40] <Ian_> On a colinear, the radials are an artificial earth system. They normally require to be a minimum 1/4 wavelength to operate correctly, but can be longer, with no adverse effects.
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[12:42] <Ian_> Typically on tri-band colinears, the bottom band is often compromised because the radials are not long enough for that band. Easily rectified as you might guess, but it would be good if the manufacturer actually provided those extra centimetres, but aesthetically it would maybe not sell as well either with longer radials. Not so cute :)
[12:43] <Ian_> PS don't buy a tri-band colinear . . .
[12:43] <chris_99> heh, why so out of interest? (i've never seen one though)
[12:43] <chris_99> oh you said already sorry
[12:44] <Ian_> I think mine is a Watson W300 - been up a long time and the label has dissappeared long since.
[12:44] <chris_99> http://www.rason.org/Projects/collant/collant.htm mentions how a single band one works, how do >1 bands work?
[12:44] <Ian_> In a word, harmonics
[12:45] <chris_99> ahh
[12:45] <Ian_> 144.xx * 3 = 433.xx (ish)
[12:48] <chris_99> gotcha. Out of interest, i don't suppose anyone knows how to force gqrx to use a specific antenna on a USRP (b200), it's not vitally important, just curious how i can switch between the two SMA ports
[12:50] <Ian_> Take your pal's new wonder 2m handie on 144.500MHz FM and listen on 433.500MHz, in the same close vicinity and then suggest that he has been robbed . . . Near Field of course, but enough to cause him concerns and quieten him down if he isn't up to speed. :) for shit and giggles of course.
[12:50] <Ian_> Don't know the answer to your gqrx question, sorry, hopefully someone else has the answer for you.
[12:51] <Ian_> I suggested FM ^^ because on SSB someone will notice that something is odd.
[12:52] <chris_99> heh
[12:54] <Ian_> Becoming interested in the possibilities of TPMS. Tire Pressure Monitoring Systems. In use they report to the mothership around once ever two seconds and carry an ID so that you don't get a reading from the next guy over at the traffic lights.
[12:55] <chris_99> intriguing, that could uniquely identify the car then? like people could see the same car comes past point X each day?
[12:55] <Ian_> Couple the reg plate with the TPMS IDs and you can surveil with an SDR and an MCU
[12:55] <chris_99> heh
[12:55] <chris_99> it's plaintext?
[12:57] <chris_99> i assume this is something only fancy cars have?
[12:57] <Ian_> Better than that. City installs SDR and camera at choke points where cars are travelling slowly - service stations and then everywhere else you just need the SDR's which is super cheap. But better yet
[12:57] <Ian_> In the US it has been mandated for a number of years on new cars.
[12:57] <chris_99> oh interesting
[12:58] <Ian_> If the smarter car is really smart, it can out-stupid itself, and refuse to start the engine with a flat tire.
[12:58] <chris_99> haha
[12:58] <Ian_> You with your small tx, with power slightly larger than your neighbour's tires is now subject to your control 9sh.
[12:59] <chris_99> heh. i assume you've seen the SDR relay keyfob thing too?
[12:59] <Ian_> What fun. Possible answer to high tech car theft. Switch on a flat tire tx in the car.
[12:59] <Ian_> I'm empty now and off topic of course.
[13:01] <Ian_> Cmon chris_99 I can see you googling like crazy now :) (in my mind's eye at least)
[13:01] <chris_99> heh, googling for what?
[13:02] <Ian_> TPMS exploits. I forget the freq but maybe 433.200MHz I would need to check it myself, but it's standard.
[13:02] <chris_99> ohh heh, i will have a look, as i'm curious if it's plaintext
[13:03] <chris_99> oh it seems it is
[13:03] <Ian_> it's a packet and has a standard format
[13:04] <chris_99> i'll have to see if our cars have it, i doubt they do though
[13:06] <Ian_> Increasingly so I would think. https://www.sigidwiki.com/wiki/Tire_Pressure_Monitoring_System_(TPMS)
[13:08] <Ian_> https://www.bartecautoid.com/tpms-legislation.html because it saves lives, while increasing the possibilities for evil
[13:08] <chris_99> all these fancy new technologies do seem somewhat scary to me, i saw something where they could trick a Tesla to drive into oncoming traffic
[13:10] <Ian_> If someone spoofs an ADSB (sort of) signal and it says that it's proximity is close to an oncoming Boeing, as if they didn't have enough problems, then would the anti collision system say, pull up, pull up . . . it's as much control as the flat tire scenario. Also a plaintext system.
[13:10] <Ian_> It's quite worrying in a way.
[13:12] <chris_99> i didn't know ADSB information was used by the autopilot type hardware, that's scary
[13:14] <Ian_> There is a link as as the TCAS system has to somehow be aware of the position of nearby traffic. It's just that causing something to be defensive is a form of control, however coarse grained that control might be. it's an influence on the flight path characteristics to be sure.
[13:15] <chris_99> gotcha. I guess planes also use GPS probably too, although maybe with some highly directional antenna?
[13:15] <Ian_> That's the story why daveake doesn't put an ADSB beacon on his balloons . . . too smart (oh goth April 1 is long gone) :)
[13:16] <Ian_> GPS is probably omni looking at the whole sky
[13:16] <dbrooke> I see several Ford, Toyota and Renault TPMS decodes from passing cars, as well as neighbours heating oil tank levels, running rtl_433 here
[13:18] <chris_99> heh interesting
[13:18] <Ian_> That's a start. What happens if it's autumn and someone consistently spoofs that the oil tank is a lot lower than it is? I guess that could result in a potential order for oil that doesn't fit in the tank, with lots of hassle.
[13:20] <dbrooke> I've also seen a central heating thermostat so could potentially use up the oil faster 8-)
[13:21] <Ian_> The possibilities are seemingly almost endless.
[13:22] <craag> I've heard of people spoofing their own thermostat RF to non-invasively make a remote control system :)
[13:22] <dbrooke> I'm actually using rtl_433 to feed a script which sends some of my own sensor data into my home automation system and it just dumps thinks it doesn't process to screen
[13:23] <chris_99> i'm just looking at that program now, it supports tonnes of devices!
[13:25] <dbrooke> I've not yet hooked it to a proper antenna, just the small whip which came with an rtl sdr, so there are probably even more things out there ...
[13:26] <craag> Missing a ukhasnet decoder..
[13:27] <dbrooke> well ukhasnet already gets fed in
[13:27] <dbrooke> this is mostly for currentcost monitors which I already had
[13:27] <chris_99> is there a CLI rtty decoder btw? i noticed multimon-ng doesn't seem to have one yet
[13:28] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03U3B-25 after 0314 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=U3B-25
[13:30] <Ian_> Steve asked about the UKHAS Conference this year in the mailing list but doesn't seem to have had much in the way of interest as yet. That's why we didn't have one in 2017. He needs time to get things organised and select a venue.
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[13:40] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KD0ZTV-3 after 0321 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD0ZTV-3
[13:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD0ZTV-4 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD0ZTV-4
[13:44] <PE2BZ> chris_99, https://gitlab.com/snippets/1812596
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[13:45] <PE2BZ> chris_99, // Usage: ./rtty <sample rate> <carrier frequency> <baud rate> <deviation>
[13:45] <PE2BZ> with thanks to happysat
[13:46] <chris_99> ooh, interesting, thanks!
[13:46] <chris_99> i guess you could pipe the udp output from gqrx to that maybe
[13:47] <chris_99> will have a play
[13:48] <Darkside> horus_demod will also decode RTTY: https://github.com/projecthorus/horusbinary#demodulating-using-gqrx
[13:48] <Darkside> in particulr formats anyway
[13:49] <Darkside> oh, fixed baud rate too lol
[13:49] <Darkside> oh well
[13:49] <Darkside> that would be an option in the code somewhere, i think we fixed it because we dont use much else than that, and the modem was more targeted for the 4FSK mode...
[13:49] <PE2BZ> chris_99, even with rtl_dongle rtl_fm -M usb -p 0 -g 29.6 -f 432800000 -s 48000 - | ./rtty 48000 1400 75 570 /dev/stdin
[13:51] <chris_99> Darkside: cool, i'll check that out too, thanks. Nice PE2BZ i'm using a USRP at the mo' i'll see if there's a similar CLI alternative to rtl_fm
[13:55] <Darkside> chris_99: i just don't like modems that haven't got BER vs SNR curves available :)
[13:59] <chris_99> how did you measure that out of interest, for say fldigi ?
[14:01] <chris_99> wow this photo is awesome, from the ISS - https://i.redd.it/9h2lwvmj4ns21.jpg
[14:08] <PE2BZ> nice photo indeed!
[14:08] <PE2BZ> Let´s use that for SSTV
[14:12] <Darkside> chris_99: thats kind of the point - i haven't done it for fldigi
[14:12] <Darkside> well
[14:12] <Darkside> actually i think we do have some packet error rate vs snr data
[14:13] <Darkside> it was done by producing test files with a calibrated SNR, and then feeding them through the various demodulators
[14:13] <Darkside> and essentually counting the number of valid packets received
[14:13] <chris_99> ahhh
[14:13] <chris_99> gotcha
[14:14] <Darkside> doing a proper bit error ratio measurement woudl be better, but that would require lots of delving into the code of fldigi
[14:16] <Darkside> anyway, gnight
[14:16] <chris_99> toodles
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[14:57] <dbrooke> low altitude balloons https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47960237
[15:12] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC1KZE-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC1KZE-11
[15:13] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CALLSIGN123_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CALLSIGN123_chase
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[15:24] <roseman> hi. any predictor admin here?
[15:27] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SSTAR0287 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SSTAR0287
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[15:38] <Ian_> Unfortunate headline doing the rounds today. Google 'network rail helium balloons' to guage the extent. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/train-delay-balloon-helium-network-rail-cost-a8874466.html party variety I understand, but the headline is a very broad brush and needs nipped in the bud quickly.
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[15:44] <fsphil> I wonder how much is spent dealing with leaves, vs. balloons
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[15:53] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03GLAUB40 after 037 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=GLAUB40
[15:55] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KN4CZZ-LoRa - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KN4CZZ-LoRa
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[17:26] <PE2BZ> fsphil they just leave them :-)
[17:35] <Lahti> https://aijaa.com/hkb1oI
[17:38] <Ian_> Good recovery I guess Lahti. Well done.
[17:41] <Lahti> had already fallen, now the snow was melted in the field
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[18:37] <LIERO_> SA6BSS-Mike, Weather service station in Sofia is literally the only one in the country that flies one of those RS41 sondes
[18:37] <SA6BSS-Mike> ok
[18:37] <LIERO_> if the wind is right, one coming down from Bucharest is far more likely
[18:38] <LIERO_> but searching about it, hunters find them on occasion.. and ask on radio forums
[18:38] <SA6BSS-Mike> they tend to land within 250km from launch site
[18:39] <SA6BSS-Mike> I used to use http://predict.habhub.org
[18:40] <SA6BSS-Mike> to predict landings, set burst around 25000m
[18:40] <SA6BSS-Mike> you have to grab a couple to get the feeling of some medium burts hight, around here they pop at about 23000
[18:42] <LIERO_> the one I tracked today was 26, iirc
[18:42] <SA6BSS-Mike> ok
[18:42] <LIERO_> I will wait till tonight to see if they do a 0:00 launch
[18:43] <LIERO_> some news site from a few years ago said they´re only doing 1 launch a day now
[18:43] <SA6BSS-Mike> then you have to be up half the night, yhats UTC
[18:43] <LIERO_> right, 3 am ;_;
[18:44] <LIERO_> nevermind, I´ll see tomorrow
[18:44] <SA6BSS-Mike> yep , :)
[18:44] <SA6BSS-Mike> you can set a timed recorder, like hdsdr
[18:44] <LIERO_> but a RX station is a good idea, the Romanian sondes from Bucharest have trouble getting through
[18:44] <SA6BSS-Mike> to record acoupple of hours
[18:45] <LIERO_> although that would basically be it, I´m not going to get anything else..
[18:45] <SA6BSS-Mike> you can run the predictor and put in one week in advance to see how its predicted to land
[18:45] <SA6BSS-Mike> one day at the time
[18:47] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03N4XWC-1 after 033 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N4XWC-1
[18:52] <SA6BSS-Mike> looks like some tracked Bulgarina wx today, looking at sondehub
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[18:59] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03N4XWC-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N4XWC-11
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[20:28] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KN4CZZ - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KN4CZZ
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[22:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PITS00 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PITS00
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[23:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Spencer_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Spencer_chase
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[00:00] --- Thu Apr 18 2019