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[00:04] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BSS18 after 0313 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BSS18
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[06:36] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03YO2MAB_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YO2MAB_chase
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[07:51] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03YO3ICT after 033 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YO3ICT
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[08:46] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP5WWL-b - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP5WWL-b
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[08:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP5WWL - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP5WWL
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[09:54] <PB0AHX-Herman> !flights
[09:54] <SpacenearUS> 03PB0AHX-Herman: Current flights: 03SP5WWL - 437.600&650MHz RTTY 75/540 7N1 & 432.500MHz APRS & 144.500MHz SSTV 10(cb9e), 03SP9UOB-PICO33 10(9a95), 03ICSPACE6 10(f90d), 03ICSPACE7 10(f3a0), 03PICO-32 144.251 MHz CTSTIA32/1000 10(33b0)
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[10:21] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ICSPACE6 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ICSPACE6
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[10:22] <Medad> getting ready to launch ICSPACE6
[10:25] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03tracher4 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=tracher4
[10:27] <PE2BZ> Good luck Medad!
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[10:42] <Medad> thanks!
[10:52] <Medad> ICSPACE6 is off!!
[10:53] <PB0AHX-Herman> GL
[10:54] <PE0SAT> Medad: Enjoy the flight
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[10:58] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03M0LVR_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M0LVR_chase
[10:58] <Medad> on its way
[10:59] <Medad> We have the pipping problem sadly. Struggling to get a fix
[11:03] <Medad> its working!
[11:03] <Medad> takes a little while to get a fix
[11:04] <Medad> 1 extra minute to get a fix
[11:06] <bertrik> what's the pipping problem?
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[11:07] <Medad> thank you for tracking ICSPACE6!
[11:08] <Medad> last launch it tooks some time for it to get a fix, pipping all the way
[11:08] <Medad> seems to work now
[11:10] <Astrobiologist> as last time I heard a couple of transmissions as it passed overhead but now it is blocked by buildings
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[11:28] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03ICSPACE7 after 0320 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ICSPACE7
[11:28] <Medad> icspace6 is doing well! We are preparing icspace7 now
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[11:42] <Astrobiologist> hello
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[11:44] <Astrobiologist_> Hello
[11:50] <Astrobiologist_> I think I have a working audio cable and tracker app for ICSPACE7. Standing by in Soho Square. I think I can hear faint morse pips on 434.250
[11:57] <Medad> yup
[11:57] <Medad> thats it
[11:58] <Astrobiologist_> Good luck Medad, Godspeed ICSPACE7!
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[12:04] <PB0AHX-Herman> green
[12:04] <PE2BZ> 6 or 7 Herman ?
[12:05] <PE2BZ> I think 6 :-)
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[12:07] <Medad> icspace7 launched
[12:09] <PE0SAT> PE2BZ: I think so to, no reception on the vertical x5000, yet ;-)
[12:11] <PE2BZ> I did not notice that 7 had to be launched ;-) Over here also the X-5000 with sometimes green if I adjust the beeps to center for each string transmitted
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[12:12] <PE0SAT> And you are using 434.6 ?
[12:14] <PE2BZ> Yes
[12:15] <PE0SAT> Then we just need to be patient
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[12:16] <Medad> icspace7 launched at 434.258 but it is only pipping only at the moment
[12:16] <Medad> doesn't seem to have gps lock
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[12:18] <PE2BZ> What´s the ´new´ number of sats in the software for the GPS lock ?
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[12:19] <Medad> just a 3d fix is good enough
[12:19] <PE2BZ> ICSPACE6 also appears to be in beep mode
[12:19] <Medad> I heard ICSPACE7 transmit just now but could not decode
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[12:19] <Medad> too far away
[12:20] <Medad> icspace7 just transmitting
[12:25] <Astrobiologist_> Where is ICSPACE7 now?
[12:25] <Medad> around 800m above groud
[12:25] <Medad> I cannot fully decode because it is very far
[12:25] <Medad> Anyone see icpsace7? 434.258Mhz
[12:25] <PE2BZ> Medad define ¨far¨ ?
[12:26] <Medad> maybe close to the east coast of england
[12:26] <Medad> getting partial decodes
[12:26] <Medad> but it is transmitting now
[12:26] <Astrobiologist_> Has anybody decoded it please? And when did you launch? I may have missed it since I had to step away for a moment
[12:27] <bertrik> ispace7 is over belgium now
[12:27] <Medad> I am not getting full decodes
[12:27] <Medad> really?
[12:27] <Medad> or is that icspace6?
[12:27] <PE2BZ> 6 is over Belgium I guess
[12:28] <bertrik> sorry
[12:28] <PE2BZ> 7 shows no traces on the waterfall over here yet, westcoast of the Netherlands
[12:28] <Medad> I am hearing ICSPACE7 but no full decodes.
[12:28] <bertrik> 61 m/s horizontally, it's moving quite fast!
[12:29] <Astrobiologist_> ICSPACE7 is not showing on ha hub as having moved. I can't hear it from my location. Are you still at Wormwood Scrubs Medad?
[12:29] <Medad> yes but have launched
[12:30] <Medad> i have not gotten a full decode to upload
[12:30] <Astrobiologist_> When did you launch please?
[12:30] <PE2BZ> 13:!6
[12:31] <PE2BZ> 13:16
[12:31] <Astrobiologist_> So 12:16 GMT
[12:31] <PE2BZ> It´s on the map bij G8KNN
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[12:33] <bertrik> the website shows G8FJG got a fix for ispace7 1 minute ago
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[12:34] <bertrik> it's at 1743m but not ascending significantly
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[12:36] <Astrobiologist> what is the difference between the green and blue circles on HABhub
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[12:37] <bertrik> blue is horizon IIRC, green is a few degrees above it, it's described on the web page somewhere I'll look it up
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[12:38] <Astrobiologist> green is much less, since I have a lot of buildings around me I assume it is the realistic radio horizon for my location
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[12:42] <bertrik> I can't find the description of the blue/green circles anymore, but it's like you assumed
[12:44] <Astrobiologist> thanks for looking betrik
[12:44] <bertrik> wow ispace6 is now moving at 65 m/s, that's >230 km/h
[12:44] <Astrobiologist> bertrik
[12:45] <ei3kd> blue is radio horizon, inside green is most likely antenna "shadow", i.e. not in polar plot of antenna
[12:46] <Astrobiologist> do u mean like the null of a vertical antenna?
[12:47] <ei3kd> yes, the null of the balloon's antenna, directly beneath it
[12:47] <bertrik> no, reception in the green area is excellent from my past experience
[12:48] <g0hww> yes, i can normally hear things if i am in the green circle
[12:48] <Astrobiologist> ICSPACEshat miht explain why it is quite hard for us to hear the ICSPACES
[12:48] <Astrobiologist> OK so I am confused then
[12:49] <ei3kd> well it could be to do with "excellent strength" also, but that would be entirely arbitrary depending on ground station antenna
[12:50] <g0hww> i just have an omni-directional antenna. i think the blue circle is for > 0 degrees elevation, so potentially usable with a directional antenna
[12:53] <Robert_mja> Green is nothing, blue is line of sight, radio horizon is a little beyond the blue line.
[12:54] <bertrik> as far as I know, the most common ground station antenna is a colinear setup with an omnidirectional pattern but with gain towards the horizon
[12:54] <ei3kd> ok, I checked - green is simply supposed to be the "5 degrees above the horizon" line
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[12:54] <g0hww> and green is a good match for my discone
[12:54] <Astrobiologist> ei3kd where is that written down please for future reference?
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[12:55] <bertrik> if you have a good setup you can start hearing them from the blue line, if you can't hear it from within the green line you have a bad setup :)
[12:55] <g0hww> well put
[12:56] <ei3kd> referenced in the ukhas archives, i.e. https://www.amateurradio.com/tag/ukhas/
[12:56] <Astrobiologist> from the experiences of the ICSPACEs the green horizon just after launch goes over your head in just a few minutes
[12:56] <Astrobiologist> so I hear one transmission and maybe the next but then nothing
[12:56] <ei3kd> I generally hear them from slightly outside the blue line - but most are too far east from Cork ;)
[12:56] <Robert_mja> Or you can calculate the line of sight and radio horizon: https://www.everythingrf.com/rf-calculators/line-of-sight-calculator
[12:57] <g0hww> and then face-palm at all the building in the way
[12:58] <Astrobiologist> yes buildings are the true enemy of London HAB rx
[12:58] <g0hww> when you are in the green circle, the elevation is high enough to help out
[12:59] <g0hww> i found that gathering adsb data helped me figure what my radio horizon was like
[12:59] <Astrobiologist> even the tallest building I have access to has line of sight in various directions blocked by other buildings
[13:00] <ei3kd> icspace6 already descending
[13:00] <Astrobiologist> I have triedunning around the perimeter of my building to try and keep LOS to iC
[13:00] <bertrik> but only 3 m/s so I don't think it burst yet
[13:00] <Astrobiologist> ICSPACES but sooner or later I pull out a cable etc
[13:01] <g0hww> is it a low altitude balloon?
[13:01] <Robert_mja> The signal of icspace6 is so weak, caused by a very bad antenna I suspect.
[13:02] <ei3kd> looks like it had a gps glitch early on too, showed way too high altitude - perhaps a leak now
[13:03] <ei3kd> maybe hit by an aircraft :)
[13:03] <Astrobiologist> g0hww Medad and his colleagues have been very skillful at launching into strong winds blowing eastwards, the balloons shoot over central London whilst climbing slowly, so they might only be at a few hundred m when they lverfly me
[13:03] <Astrobiologist> hence very small radio horizon and only a couple of transmissions audible to me or Medad
[13:04] <Astrobiologist> blink and you miss it
[13:04] <g0hww> i see
[13:04] <g0hww> yes, it is very windy
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[13:05] <Astrobiologist> they have all scooted over west to east in more or less the same track and quite quickly
[13:05] <g0hww> not surprising really
[13:05] <Astrobiologist> is that the prevalent wind direction or just coincidence?
[13:06] <bertrik> the wind can be very different at higher altitudes, but they're not super high yet
[13:06] <g0hww> well, i meant not surprising given the strength and direction of the current wind.
[13:07] <bertrik> so you can get a kind of "Z" pattern when you look at the position track on a map
[13:07] <Astrobiologist> the last two launches did the same thing
[13:08] <SA6BSS-Mike> the airspeeds at differnt altitudes are visible here https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/250hPa/orthographic=-341.16,59.05,422
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[13:20] <PE2BZ> ICSPACE7 on 434.256 atm
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[13:23] <PE2BZ> ICSPACE7 on 434.256 atm struggling with GPS lock
[13:29] <SA6BSS-Mike> but, how long is that gps antenna, looks waaaay to long from the pics
[13:29] <SA6BSS-Mike> lets see what Medad says whn his back
[13:30] <SA6BSS-Mike> the battery in the pick is exactly 45mm ling just as the gps 1/4 should be https://www.union.ic.ac.uk/guilds/icseds/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/IMG_0144.jpg
[13:31] <SA6BSS-Mike> that would explain the bad gps rx on all the flights
[13:34] <Astrobiologist> Medad explained this last time, there are two antennae (GPS and tx), both are exactly a quarter wave
[13:35] <PE2BZ> I am sorry, but that´s not true ;-)
[13:35] <daveake> 1/4 wave gps is 45mm iirc
[13:35] <SA6BSS-Mike> but thats not what I see
[13:35] <SA6BSS-Mike> yes 46to be exact but yeah
[13:35] <daveake> That's as exact as my memory ever gets :)
[13:36] <SA6BSS-Mike> good enought :)
[13:36] <PE2BZ> The one recovered in the Netherlands was the length measuren on my request. 2 * 96 mm
[13:36] <PE2BZ> for the GPS antenna !
[13:36] <daveake> Yeah that's sub-nominal
[13:37] <PE2BZ> So it might be an easy mistake that they are calculating for ¨another¨ gps frequency ?
[13:37] <SA6BSS-Mike> or he made them a halfwave
[13:38] <SA6BSS-Mike> with a feed impedance of 4-5Khom :)
[13:38] <PE2BZ> don´t feed the GPS ;-)
[13:40] <Astrobiologist> the plot thickens
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[13:43] <PE2BZ> Now let´s switch to Mr. Mi Yagi and see if we can get a green for number 7 again.
[13:48] <SA6BSS-Mike> no go to Uda he the creator of the yagi :)
[13:49] <SA6BSS-Mike> the professor always takes the credit of his pupils!
[13:53] <PE2BZ> very hard to decode atm....
[13:55] <PE2BZ> 7700 m altitude
[13:58] <Robert_mja> Advice for Medad, try to find someone with a Vecor Network Analyser to create antenna's tuned exactly on the right frequency, for tx and gps. Your next flight will be a succes!
[14:00] <PE2BZ> I gained 3 db Gain by removing the 2 * 75 ohm splitter from the 70 cm yagi....
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[14:02] Action: PE2BZ is voting for 80 seconds between transmissions. My death point is at the south and rotating the yagi takes 70 seconds :-)
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[14:04] <Medad> I am back.
[14:05] <Medad> We have to look at the antenna lenghts yes
[14:05] <Medad> really seems to be strugging
[14:05] <Medad> thanks for all your help and advice
[14:06] <SA6BSS-Mike> you can probably loose all ground plane wires for the gps, just solder in one 45mm and thats it
[14:06] <Medad> PE2BZ is the telemetry signal very weak?
[14:07] <PE2BZ> Not weak, but instable in frequency, need to tune for every string
[14:07] <Medad> we saw it drifting on the ground for around 4 seconds at the beginning of the string before stablising
[14:08] <Medad> I am not very sure what length we set the gps antenna.
[14:09] <SA6BSS-Mike> from the picturs its obvious its to long
[14:09] <PE2BZ> I´ll https://imgur.com/FMH1TGj
[14:09] <PE2BZ> this is half the drift !
[14:09] <Medad> wow that is much worse than we saw
[14:09] <PE2BZ> can´t set fldigi to show more waterfall lines.
[14:10] <PE2BZ> The afc with the Icom can tune it, but the center beeps have to be centered each transmission again. The image is from the Airspy sdr with the yagi
[14:10] <Medad> that is some incredible drift!
[14:11] <Medad> That is the highest and coldest we have flown this tracker though.
[14:12] <Medad> -19C
[14:12] <SA6BSS-Mike> looks like the rfm22 at -50 :)
[14:15] <daveake> I was thinking that :)
[14:15] <Robert_mja> That can be solved bij replacing the standard xtall by a TCXO. Need some soldering skills ;-)
[14:17] <Medad> we already replaced the crystal that came with the HC-12 module we fly because it was out of spec. Certainly doable
[14:17] <Medad> we have not used a tcxo
[14:18] <PE2BZ> https://imgur.com/yA0H3ZW
[14:20] <Medad> serious drift. Thank you Ben for still tracking
[14:24] <PE2BZ> the signal almost disappeared from the waterfall. Heavy rain over here, but that usually does not interfere with 434 MHz reception
[14:26] <Medad> Ben do you also track satellites?
[14:26] <Medad> and the ISS?
[14:26] <PE2BZ> No, not yet. I am ¨collecting hardware¨ to make something to track but that could take a year or so....
[14:27] <PE2BZ> I do RX satellites with the X-5000 omnidirectional. And the Es´Hailsat2 with wifi antenna :-)
[14:28] <PE2BZ> strange thing is the signal disappears at almost the same location as the number 6 did ? A BElgiumMuda triangle ?
[14:28] <Medad> hehe
[14:29] <Medad> Belgium Airforce maybe?
[14:29] <Medad> From the data from ICSPACE7 it looks like it almost entered a float
[14:30] <PE2BZ> the websdr near Essen Germany appears to be offline. That´s a pitty
[14:41] <Medad> both seems to have disappeared after the temperature dropped below -19C. maybe some sort of hardware failure?
[14:44] <Medad> note to all pico balloons. Try not to launch on a windy day. It will nearly get stuck on a tree. Ours did a loop de loop before rising
[14:44] <Medad> *pico ballooners
[14:48] <PE2BZ> Tnx for the info ;-) We fly Solar so this kind of weather is not the best for us either :-)
[14:48] <Medad> PE2BZ by any chance do you hear any pipping from ICSPACE7?
[14:49] <PE2BZ> If you are going to fly ¨around the world¨ are you still going to use RTTY for telemetry ?
[14:49] <Medad> yes at the moment we use a single AAA battery so the sun does not matter
[14:49] <PE2BZ> Now say sorry to the sun !
[14:49] <Medad> no. probably APRS. But we are thinking of using Lora and The Things Network. We have one tracker ready to fly
[14:49] <PE2BZ> I liked to have some of it this afternoon to add a loop for 13 cm to my satellite dish :-)
[14:50] <PE2BZ> I am watching 434.235 - 434.275 but no sign of rtty nor beeps
[14:50] <Medad> We are using RTTY and inexpensive trackers to get some experience
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[14:51] <Medad> experience with the launch, filling of balloons, net lift ect. This time we had a net lift of 4.5g, the highest we had
[14:51] <Medad> earlier we flew with 2g,3g,2.5g,4g netlift
[14:53] <PE2BZ> You should seriously re-calculate your GPS antenna size indeed. As Mike described (and as PD2JO measured on the recovered payload) the wires appear to be twice the size
[14:54] <Medad> yes we will definately look at it.
[14:55] <PE2BZ> He also did explain (I think you where offline atm) that with double the size the impedance would be more like 5000 Ohm instead of the required 50 Ohm
[14:55] <Medad> http://www.loratracker.uk/?p=30
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[14:57] <Medad> we use this reference for the antenna lengths
[14:57] <bertrik> Medad: i wrote a kind of telemetry forwarder from thethingsnetwork to habhub
[14:58] <Medad> yes I have seen it. One thing we want to do is to also log all the meta data
[14:58] <Medad> We want to be able to log which stations picked up telemetry on the TTN, how strong the signal was etc
[14:59] <Medad> and want to see a "heatmap" of where the telemetry was picked up
[14:59] <Medad> I don't think at the moment the HABtoTTN bridge logs the metadata
[14:59] <bertrik> no it just forwards what it can
[15:00] <bertrik> you could just subscribe to the MQTT and log all of the raw data coming from TTN to a file
[15:00] <Medad> yes one of us will be writing that bit of code
[15:00] <bertrik> and then later decide what you want to do with it, write more advanced parsing and processing
[15:00] <Medad> yes
[15:01] <Medad> I have to figure out how to run it on my machine. its a Java program I saw.
[15:01] <bertrik> yes
[15:02] <bertrik> I ran it on a Linux machine, but it should run on Windows too (in fact it was developed on windows)
[15:02] <Medad> do you host the TTNHABBridge on remote servers such as AWS?
[15:02] <bertrik> Java is getting a bit ridiculous in the past few years, with respect to version numbers, licensing, support, etc
[15:02] <Medad> or only on the local machine during a launch
[15:03] <Medad> Java is difficult. I only have run programs on an android phone so far
[15:03] <bertrik> Medad: I ran it on a friends' VPS
[15:04] <Medad> oh that is good. I will figure out how to do the logging in a few weeks when I am free.
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[15:07] <Medad> https://imgur.com/a/ysf2RXv
[15:07] <Medad> we have a really light Sodaq one tracker with a lora module to fly on a pico balloon
[15:08] <Medad> we can make it lighter and fly it soon. On a single AAA battery, we can run it for more than 80 hours
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[15:13] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[15:44] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SV3IRM_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SV3IRM_chase
[15:44] <PE2BZ> Medad has quit....
[15:44] <PE2BZ> Cut two lengths of guitar wire 9.5cm long (for ¼ wave radials) and one 14.25cm length for the ¾ wave vertical. Push the 9.5cm wires halfway through the two holes provided either side of the antenna and solder in place. Solder the longer wire to the antenna connections. See photo; radials are on the left, 3/4wave vertical on the right.
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[15:53] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SV3CIX_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SV3CIX_chase
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[16:09] <YO3ICT> Had a flight today. 18g payload on 30g balloon with 41g of neck lift. The calculator indicated about 2.7m/s ascent rate. It got nowhere near that. Am I missing something?
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[16:45] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03U3S29 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=U3S29
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[17:02] <SA6BSS-Mike> PE2BZ: that gps antenna guide is so wrong
[17:04] <SA6BSS-Mike> and for the actual 434 tx just keep it simple, one wire up one wire down , dont make all those (4) groundplane wires, no one will notice any difference
[17:13] <daveake> SA6BSS-Mike: Blimey, I don't think he got one length right there
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[17:30] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KJ4TDM-11 after 0316 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KJ4TDM-11
[17:51] <SA6BSS-Mike> daveake: nop, Id say the tx wire is a tad to long as well
[17:52] <daveake> Yup - looks like 1/4 wave in air not in metal
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[19:02] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03N4XWC-11 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N4XWC-11
[19:04] <PE2BZ> SA6BSS-Mike the 9.5 cm guitar wire is supposed to be soldered in the middle, making 4 reflectors 47,5 mm each
[19:05] <PE2BZ> Now I don´t know the impedance of 3/4 wave but I think if I remember right that multipliers of 1/4 wave tend to be 50 ohm ?
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[19:46] <SA6BSS-Mike> the 3/4 antennas is 90-100 ohm, but stil, there is no need to make them longer then 1/4, just extra weight and a 1/4 will be closer to 50ohm :)
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[20:38] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03U3B-25 after 0314 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=U3B-25
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[20:44] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BLACKOPS_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BLACKOPS_chase
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[21:34] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BSS18 after 0313 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BSS18
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[22:47] <name> hi
[22:47] Nick change: name -> Guest7830
[22:47] <Guest7830> what are the concentric circles on the map on habhub
[22:48] <Darkside> blue = radio horizon
[22:48] <Darkside> green = where the balloon in question is greater than 5 degrees above the horizon
[22:56] <Guest7830> and dim path is predicted path?
[22:57] <Darkside> yes
[22:57] <Darkside> though thats based on certain assumptions about the flight
[22:57] <Darkside> up untilburst anyway
[23:07] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03TA2MUN-13 after 035 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=TA2MUN-13
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[23:21] <dfm> Darkside: Maybe the absolute dB values are not so important, if you have a reference decoder. Or you calibrate with an artificial signal. When comparing the noise between signal to the rs41-signal, my calculations have at least 2dB uncertainty.
[23:28] <Darkside> dfm: it would be nice to end up with absolutely calibrated levels, but what we have now helps detect improvements or degradation
[23:28] <Darkside> which is a hell of a lot better than nothing!
[23:29] <Darkside> my main point behind doing this was to optimize the decode chains for each sonde type, and it's helped with that already
[23:31] <dfm> Calibration would be needed for comparing the radiosondes. But if you compare the different decoding chains, it already helps to test parameters.
[23:33] <dfm> In particular for iq-decoding, if you don't differentiate but use the FSK-frequencies, e.g. the modulation index when pulse shaping is used.
[23:35] <Darkside> so something i've found when testing david's fsk_demod, is that its sensitive to strong interferers
[23:35] <Darkside> the frequency estimation is essentually based on peak detection, so if there is a CW signal in the passband which is stronger than the sonde tones, it will get picked up as a tone
[23:36] <Darkside> then again, if you get a strong CW signal in the passband with a FM demodulator, you will have problems just as bad
[23:36] <dfm> Maybe it perturbes the tone-detection.
[23:36] <Darkside> yeah
[23:36] <Darkside> theres a few ideas that are goign to be tried
[23:36] <Darkside> one is to limit the range of spacing on the detected dones
[23:36] <Darkside> tones*
[23:36] <Darkside> and another is to look for tones with equal power
[23:37] <Darkside> i figure a combination of this will help resolve issues in most cases
[23:37] <Darkside> there will always be edge cases of course
[23:37] <dfm> Strong signals close together are problematic. Zagreb has rs41 on 402.0 and Szeged DFM-09 on 402.01, drifting down....
[23:38] <Darkside> yeah now that one is a pain
[23:38] <Darkside> very difficult to resolve those kinds of issues
[23:38] <Darkside> setting tight limits on expected tone spacing might help in that case, but there will always be an edge case where it will break
[23:39] <Darkside> like in that case, the lower tone of the DFM aligning with the upper tone on the RS41...
[23:39] <dfm> When the military is launching every hour or two, sometimes they use 2 freqs, sometimes it is the same.
[23:40] <dfm> In Germany they use the frequency 402.7 at different stations... Or the fall-back frequency is the main frequency of the other station...
[23:41] <Darkside> thats always going to break things
[23:41] <dfm> Sometimes it's just bad luck.
[23:42] <Darkside> at lwast with the way auto_rx works, if you are able to decode packets from an individual radiosonde, it will be treated correctly
[23:42] <Darkside> urgh
[23:42] <Darkside> i mean - if there are packets from multiple radiosondes coming in via the one decoder, they will be treated as 2 radiosondes when going into the mapping systems
[23:43] <Darkside> of course reception will be degraded, but there may be times when one is stronger than the other and a decode is possible
[23:43] <Darkside> but yeah, - these are not really things its worth spending effort trying to resolve!
[23:45] <dfm> SNR: sdrsharp shows a few dB more, but depends fft size, either the bin size or decimation, don't know how it's calculated, I think the time signal gives the SNR-levels easier.
[23:47] <dfm> And FSK signals should have constant iq-amplitude, that makes it easier.
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[23:48] <dfm> Did you compare the variance of the rs41-signal to the variance of the noise in between?
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[23:49] <Darkside> dfm: i haven't but when determiing the variance for adding noise i only used the sections of the file with packets present
[23:50] <Darkside> the SNR in the source files is very high, so i was hoping the error would be minimal
[23:50] <dfm> Maybe the discrete sampling influences the signal/fsk-amplitude.
[23:50] <Darkside> it should be more than a few fractions of a dB
[23:51] <dfm> and the adc is not doing the same at very low levels...
[23:52] <dfm> If I calculate signal/noise for rs41, I get even lower values, 7-8dB for the 9dB file...
[23:53] <Darkside> so thats interesting - thats about what fsk_demod estimates as the SNR too
[23:53] <Darkside> but we're fairly sure that fsk_Demod is underestimating it
[23:53] <dfm> and 8+-2 db, a lot of deviation.
[23:54] <Darkside> checking against BER was the main way of checking that
[23:54] <Darkside> and yes, fsk_demod was estimating a Eb/N0 about 2db lower than what the BER suggested was the case
[23:55] <dfm> Though it was really important to choose narrow bandwidth. iq-decoding was a little less sensitive, integrating beats differentiating.
[00:00] --- Sun Mar 10 2019