highaltitude.log.20190211

[00:10] <mwheeler> oh yeah, make sure your PPM is good, we don't really do the best job of dealing with off frequency stuff :(
[00:11] <mwheeler> cost of good rtl-sdrs vs software dev time to fix it
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[01:16] <Elwell> fair call. I'm going to buy a couple more - a bulk lot (5) of cheapies for a tvheadend and a couple of better ones for real SDR stuff.
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[07:27] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03MAD-1a after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MAD-1a
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[08:48] <Lahti> There's now R0230917 on the map, it has a SGM partner on same balloon, of course not visible on the map due to encryption, but signal is visible on spectrum
[08:51] <Lahti> fullhd https://aijaa.com/O7Hvfb
[09:00] <Darkside> interesting
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[09:49] <Elwell> Q about https://spacenear.us/sats/ - what are the diamond 'R' and other land icons? aprs objects? (if so, then I guess the one in Tassie's VK6HSE? https://aprs.fi/info/a/VK7HSE-2
[09:50] <Darkside> dont know much about that page
[09:50] <Darkside> not sure its up to date either
[09:51] <Darkside> lz1dev: may know
[09:51] <Elwell> is that https://github.com/rossengeorgiev ?
[09:52] <Darkside> yes
[09:53] <lz1dev> Elwell, iirc diamonds are supposed to be gates, and they label themselves
[09:54] <Elwell> ah OK. I'll pester Scott then
[09:55] <Elwell> (want to set one up, will find out what his rig was/is)
[09:55] <Darkside> yes, i believe he runs a satgate
[09:55] <Darkside> tbh APRS ISS isnt that interesting...
[09:55] <Darkside> lots more other more interesting stuff out there
[09:56] <Elwell> I'm more interested in general cubesat tracking / telemetry automation
[09:56] <Darkside> satnogs.org
[09:57] <Darkside> is the answer to that one
[09:57] <Elwell> yup. altough it seems to be quiet for a while now
[09:58] <Darkside> eh?
[09:58] <Darkside> satnogs is going strong!
[09:58] <Darkside> lots of ground stations, heaps of observations
[09:58] <Darkside> i run 3 stations, 2 with turnstiles, and one with an az/el rotator and yagis
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[10:00] <lz1dev> Darkside, that site is pretty good, why dont they put a map like on https://spacenear.us/sats/
[10:01] <Darkside> lz1dev: theres a few 'station monitor' things in the works
[10:01] <Darkside> but its more about the data
[10:01] <lz1dev> you just need the TLE and https://github.com/rossengeorgiev/orbits-js
[10:02] Action: Elwell needs to dig out the rotator (g-5500) and finish off the controller rebuild
[10:02] <Darkside> yeah someone set up something like that lz1dev ... tryin to find if its still up
[10:03] <Darkside> bah, it seems to be down
[10:03] <Darkside> urgh
[10:03] <lz1dev> mapbox....
[10:03] <lz1dev> google maps hate is real
[10:04] <Darkside> yup
[10:04] <Darkside> better than paying for api hits i guess..
[10:05] <Darkside> https://satnogs-dev.jwgtechs.com/static/globe/globe.html well, its meant to be there... but its not
[10:05] <Darkside> sigh
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[10:06] <lz1dev> you can literally message google and they can up your limit
[10:06] <Darkside> anyway, the satnogs network has an API To get all the scheduled observation data (and observations)
[10:06] <Darkside> so getting all the info to do such a map wouldnt be too difficult
[10:07] <lz1dev> maybe i should integrate that into the sats page
[10:07] <Darkside> the one i linked (thats broken...) had all fo that kind of stuff
[10:07] <Darkside> showed were sats work, and showed lines to the ground stations that were receiving
[10:07] <Darkside> it specifically only showed sats that were being received at the time, otherwise it would hav ebeen way too cluttered
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[10:08] <Darkside> https://gitlab.com/chibill/satnogsmap
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[10:13] <Elwell> rtl-sdr dongles - what's the current (cheap) hotness? https://www.rtl-sdr.com/buy-rtl-sdr-dvb-t-dongles/ (possibly https://www.secomms.com.au/?s=rtl+sdr&post_type=product for a more local reseller)?
[10:14] <Darkside> yes, the v3 dongles are what i recommend
[10:14] <Darkside> and cool - a local reseller!
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[10:15] <Darkside> the v3 dongles are prettym uch spot on frequency out of the box, i dont generally need to set a PPM offset for them
[10:15] <Elwell> local being .au at least :-)
[10:16] <Darkside> yes
[10:20] <purewhite[m]> I got a V3. They shipped and it arrived like 2 days later from secomms. The ppm was -0.9
[10:21] <Darkside> cool
[10:21] <Darkside> Elwell: so you're in tassie i believe?
[10:21] <Elwell> anyone whoring a referral code just before I hit order?
[10:21] <Elwell> yeah
[10:21] <Darkside> purewhite[m]: and you;re in brisbane?
[10:21] <Darkside> cool
[10:21] <fsphil> I love that local in .au could be 4000km away
[10:22] <Darkside> well hobart has regular launches, so you shouldnt have issues seeing something
[10:22] <Darkside> purewhite[m]: i see you were only rxing above 8km or so
[10:22] <Elwell> fsphil: and still at the mercy of auspost
[10:22] <Darkside> haha
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[10:26] <Elwell> 'Thank you. Your order has been received.
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[10:26] <Darkside> Elwell: yay
[10:26] <Elwell> \o/ right, honest dear I *will* spend the weekend working on the garden.
[10:26] <Darkside> hahaha
[10:27] <fsphil> so satnogs is worth a look then?
[10:29] <Darkside> hell yes
[10:30] <Darkside> most people know it from teh 3d printed rotator thing
[10:30] <Darkside> but thats just a small part of it
[10:30] <Darkside> its more the big network of ground stations, collecting lots of observations
[10:30] <Darkside> a no-rotator station using a turnstile is a good way of getting started
[10:30] <fsphil> what about just a simple vertical?
[10:31] <Darkside> vertical not good for satellite work
[10:31] <Darkside> circular polarised and hemispherical pattern is best for a satellite omni
[10:32] <Darkside> https://wiki.satnogs.org/Antennas
[10:34] <purewhite[m]> Darkside: I didn't get a good signal at launch. And hadn't set it up to upload to habhub until after I'd been tracking for a little while. I cut it out early to try gqrx to see if I could get a better signal playing with the antenna. I'm using the dipole kit that came with the V3. Not great for 1/4 wave 400Mhz. Managed ok at 1/2 wave.
[10:34] <Darkside> purewhite[m]: it wont be good with a 1/4 wave unless its on a decent ground plane
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[10:37] <Elwell> https://photos.app.goo.gl/YzUqjokVZUGxRQSF9 "Dropbear's having the night off, so I'm standing in for him"
[10:37] <purewhite[m]> I'll try and make one over the next few weeks. Still waiting for my orange pi so I can set it up somewhere permanent. My work laptop isn't a good solution due to it always traveling
[10:37] <purewhite[m]> If I understand correctly, a normal whip antenna isn't much good? Is that due to the ground plane issue?
[10:38] <Darkside> purewhite[m]: depends what you mean by 'whip'
[10:38] <Elwell> and (iirc) you end up with a narrow angle whhen it's overhead
[10:38] <Darkside> it can mean a whole bynch of differnet things
[10:39] <Darkside> and are we talking satellites or radiosondes - they have different requirements
[10:39] <Darkside> for satellites you want roughly uniform gain from horizon to horizon, though a bit more gain at the horizon is useful
[10:40] <Darkside> for radiosondes somethign like a basic vertical is fine - you dont need much gain directly up, as when the radiosonde is above you, its usually only going to be max 25-30km up, so you'll still get a good signal
[10:40] <fsphil> Elwell: cute! in a nightmarish kind of way
[10:40] <Darkside> hwoever when a radiosonde is landing, you want gain towards the horizon to be able to track it as low asp ossible
[10:41] <Darkside> so something like a 1/4 wave monopole, or maybe something with a little bit higher gain is best for radiosondes
[10:41] <Darkside> my primary sonde rx station is just running a 1/4 wave monopole with 4 ground radials
[10:43] <Darkside> https://photos.app.goo.gl/ynEaTTF65iV2rVCz6
[10:43] <purewhite[m]> Any suggestions on where to get coax cheaply and local?
[10:43] <Darkside> ehhhh probably altronics if you have one
[10:44] <purewhite[m]> That looks easy enough to build
[10:44] <Darkside> that one was actually originally a j-pole antenna for 2m/70cm
[10:44] <Darkside> its actually a bit more complicated than it looks, but theres much simpler designs out there
[10:44] <Darkside> that one involved machining of some delrin on a lathe, so not really recommended
[10:46] <Elwell> you're adam savage in disguise?
[10:46] <Darkside> https://www.strictlyham.com.au/browse-by-type/antennas/base-antennas/x-series-base-antennas/diamond-x-30m-n#.XGFSbc8zbMU
[10:46] <purewhite[m]> I've seen a couple that are the coax striped back with a few ground radials soldered on
[10:46] <Darkside> these are fairly good
[10:46] <Darkside> purewhite[m]: all depends how long you want it to last!
[10:46] <Darkside> the one in the photo has been up for a while now
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[10:47] <purewhite[m]> True. For now I just want it to work cheaply. Can't spend too much on it.
[10:48] <Darkside> then maybe something based around a N-type or SO-239 bulkhead mount connector
[10:49] <Darkside> https://m0ukd.com/calculators/quarter-wave-ground-plane-antenna-calculator/
[10:50] <Darkside> mount to a small diameter pole with some cable ties
[10:50] <Elwell> Darkside: is that a threaded bit of aluminium tube?
[10:50] <Darkside> might not last as long as a more robust antenna, but would be a starting point
[10:50] <Darkside> Elwell: where?
[10:51] <Elwell> the 1/4 wave vertical
[10:51] <Darkside> which one?
[10:51] <Elwell> in pic, sorry e> my primary sonde rx station is just running a 1/4 wave monopole with 4 ground radials
[10:51] <Elwell> 21:43 < Darkside> https://photos.app.goo.gl/ynEaTTF65iV2rVCz6
[10:51] <Darkside> oh
[10:51] <Elwell> grr pastefail
[10:51] <Darkside> its actually aluminium rodstock, threaded on one end
[10:51] <Darkside> and it has a ~4mm hole drilled down the end
[10:52] <Darkside> the delrin is tapped to match that thread, and underneath the delrin block is a N-type female connector (bulkhead mount) with a banana plug soldered to the centre conductor connection
[10:53] <Darkside> so as the aluminum rod screws into the delrin, the banana plug inserts into the hole down the rod
[10:53] <Elwell> that sounds quite neat
[10:53] <Darkside> a bit overengineered tbh - not my design
[10:53] <Darkside> i just hacked it up and added the ground radials, which are just 10mm wide aluminium flat bar
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[10:54] <Elwell> no space for a lathe sadly :-) (well, I do, but want lasercutter first)
[10:54] <Darkside> you can do just as well with a bit of angle aluminium and a drillpress
[10:54] <Darkside> just use a SO-239 bulkhead mount, and solder a bit of brass rod to the centre conductor point for the main element
[10:54] <fsphil> I'd love to get a lathe
[10:55] <fsphil> but it seems the small handy ones are also all crap
[10:55] <fsphil> gotta get a big one or nothing at all
[10:58] <edmoore> essentially yes
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[11:14] <Elwell> https://github.com/projecthorus/radiosonde_auto_rx/wiki 'We then need to grab a few packages using Pip:
[11:15] <Elwell> is Version: 0.12.1-1 for debian python-flask too old?
[11:18] <Darkside> uhm
[11:18] <Darkside> not sure
[11:19] Action: Elwell tries and waits to see if it breaks
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[11:36] <PE2BZ> My arduino draws 90 mA @ 4 V when doing nothing. 30 mA when TX´ing LoRa and 120 mA when TX´ing RTTY.....
[11:37] <PE2BZ> So if I quadruple the number of tranmission my average consumption will be 75 mA instead of 90 ;-)
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[11:42] <SA6BSS-Mike> PE2BZ: flash div 8fuse and it will draw nothing :)
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[12:31] <day> SA6BSS-Mike: doesnt really explain why idling consumes more than TX'ing
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[13:12] <Lahti> within a short period of time, the crawled frequency is already aside https://aijaa.com/wFnI4m
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[13:18] <Lahti> and now even more https://aijaa.com/p9eGgX
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[13:34] <Lahti> what weird two DFM on the same frequency ??? https://aijaa.com/ZMRBnw
[13:36] <Lahti> in the same ball ???
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[13:40] <Nilkki> Two DFM flying and looks like they use same freq 402.010 MHz https://tracker.sondehub.org/?sondehub=1#!mt=satellite&mz=9&qm=1_hour&f=RS_DFM09-635231&q=RS_*;*chase
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[13:40] <Nilkki> quite a mess
[13:41] <Nilkki> RS_DFM09-635231 and RS_DFM09-636618
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[14:07] Action: PE2BZ is back.... Somehow Bill Gates does not take NO for an answer if you disable COM1 on the question ¨Do you want to reboot your system¨ . But on the other hand, all updates installed :-(
[14:10] <Lahti> now again ok, really weird https://aijaa.com/6t8bRe
[14:23] <chris_99> PE2BZ: out of interest you mention "30 mA when TX´ing LoRa and 120 mA when TX´ing RTTY" do you know roughly what the power out of the antenna is out of interest (i've no idea how easy that is to measure, just curious)
[14:24] <Ian_> Lahti - I suppose that the question is; how are the frequencies assigned to the devices? It could well be that all Meteorologists are not made equal when it comes to thinking about radio and both DFMs on the same frequency might sound like an easy solution to a radio numpty ... :)
[14:25] <PE2BZ> chris_99 I just wired my power meter (China brand) to the Pluto to measure power on different frequencies, when finished I will connect it to the tracker.
[14:25] <chris_99> cool
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[14:49] <PE2BZ> Adalm pluto on my chinese power meter, between 200 and 6000 MHz output power 3 dBm + or - 3 dBm over the complete range.
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[14:55] <PE2BZ> chris_99 the beeps, the rtty and the LoRa signal are all 10,2 dBm or 10 mWatt
[14:55] <chris_99> interesting, what chip is that
[14:57] <PE2BZ> rfm98w-433 with the chrystal oscillator been replaced by an TCXO (that does not change anything on output power)
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[15:01] <PE2BZ> the RTTY string (at 200 baud) takes about 3 seconds, the LoRa string less than 0,5 seconds. Took my phone 36 images to see what the power was on LoRa TX ;-)
[15:03] <PE2BZ> But thanks for reminding me to measure the output because I was still curious if this setting #define TrackerMode_Power 10 works for LoRa, RTTY, neither, or both :-)
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[15:18] <daveake> Also PE2BZ not every lora module gives out the power you ask for
[15:18] Nick change: _DeD_ -> OK2XDS
[15:18] <daveake> Could be 1.5 down for example
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[15:33] <PE2BZ> I know, but I changed the setting from 10 to 1 a while ago in the arduino code and noticed no difference on the websdr on 2 km distance. Did not have this power meter at that moment, so now it´s time to prove the software does or does not respond to this setting :-)
[15:43] <PE2BZ> daveake would you assume it´s also possible to set the output power for rtty on the RFM modules ? I set the power from 10 to 17 and indeed the lora packets are 16,7 dBm now, but rtty still at 10 dBm
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[16:34] <daveake> I don't remember but there might be separate power registers.
[16:42] <PE2BZ> different routines use TXPower but I still can not find where that is set.... In debug mode it always shows 10dBm for the rtty part and for the LoRa part it shows the value which corresponds with TrackerModePpower. But someone has to define TXPower .... The debug window shows it´s 10 .... and the output is 10... So at least someone is right :-)
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[17:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03YO3ICT - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YO3ICT
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[18:28] <YO3ICT> Guys, it is true that power saving for the Max 8 works only on GPS GNSS?
[18:33] <YO3ICT> From the datasheet on Max 8 : PSM is designed to only support the operation of GPS, GLONASS, BeiDou, Galileo and QZSS
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[18:47] <GyroW> Hi everyone, when using a linux board to grab sensor data and transmit it what software do you use to convert it to an audio signal for transmitting?
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[19:10] <Lahti> Does anyone know which sonde ? this is, 4 pulses and pause https://aijaa.com/yj0nvB
[19:13] <SA6BSS-Mike> 401-402Mhz This band is used in the Earth Exploration Satellite Service, the Medical Device Radiocommunication Service, and the Space Operation Service. This band is allocated for both Federal and Non-Federal use.
[19:14] <SA6BSS-Mike> https://fccid.io/frequency-explorer.php?lower=400&upper=480
[19:15] <SA6BSS-Mike> some bird tracking i alocated in there to
[19:18] <PE2BZ> Lahti does it shift in frequency ? I quite often notice satellites in that frequency range.
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[19:20] <Lahti> ok then birds or satellites
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[00:00] --- Tue Feb 12 2019