highaltitude.log.20190206

[00:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK3FUR-laptop_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VK3FUR-laptop_chase
[00:52] <TimMc_> heh, right near my workplace
[00:53] <TimMc_> got one this morning and won't crash the chase. stay safe. there was a crash on M1
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[01:06] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK5PET_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VK5PET_chase
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[05:57] <Lahti> Tallinn M10 grabbed :)
[06:06] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[06:19] <TimMc_> are BOM releasing more radiosondes than usually
[06:25] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK3FTMC_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VK3FTMC_chase
[06:25] <SpeedEvil> Interesting
[06:25] <SpeedEvil> oops
[06:28] <TimMc_> ?
[06:30] <TimMc_> waiting to see where it lands. hopefully before the storm
[06:39] <TimMc_> aborted chase.
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[07:14] <Darkside> TimMc_: go for it, i think VK3FTMC has enough
[07:14] <Darkside> argh
[07:14] <Darkside> i mean, i think VK3FUR has enough
[07:14] <TimMc_> heh, i might head back while the storm breaks lol
[07:17] <Darkside> good luck!
[07:17] <Darkside> looks like its in someones yard
[07:18] <Lahti> Slowly falls Vaisala's couple
[07:18] <Darkside> Drifting through the air, they glint in the sun
[07:19] <Darkside> (We're doing poetry, right?)
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[07:23] <Lahti> couple and single https://aijaa.com/8Kjqyx
[07:24] <qyx> what
[07:24] <Darkside> qyx: exactly.
[07:25] <Darkside> Lahti: oh! comparative tests
[07:25] <Darkside> nice
[07:26] <Lahti> Can Harsh Vaisala's Couple Drops Into The Sea
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[07:30] <Lahti> they are launched only on weekdays, and not every day. They depart at 7 and 10 local time. Frequencies are usually 402.0 and 402.7, but sometimes something from 400 to 401
[07:31] <Lahti> On rare occasions other mate of the couple is RS41-SGM
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[08:23] <TimMc__> got it
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[08:32] <Darkside> TimMc__: grats
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[08:58] <mwheeler> TimMc_: congrats!
[08:58] <mwheeler> I was hoping you would get that one
[08:58] <mwheeler> Are you planning on getting tonights? I'm considering it depending on how willing my partner is
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[09:01] <mwheeler> 19:58:06 <mwheeler> TimMc__: congrats!
[09:01] <mwheeler> 19:58:12 <mwheeler> I was hoping you would get that one
[09:01] <mwheeler> 19:58:29 <mwheeler> Are you planning on getting tonights? I'm considering it depending on how willing my partner is
[09:02] <TimMc__> mwheeler: I won't go out later tonight
[09:02] <mwheeler> Also BoM are going to be launching test radiosondes with the ozonesondes from broadmeadows. So it's likely we'll start seeing 3 sondes flying at the same time, incase you have spare rtlsdrs to run :P
[09:02] <TimMc__> I got the one at Telstra Oakleigh Exchange just now
[09:03] <TimMc__> It is one number lower than the one I found in Ringwood this morning
[09:03] <TimMc__> oooh
[09:03] <mwheeler> (I visited them this afternoon to see why the RS41 from broadmedows was flown; it was just for training)
[09:03] <TimMc__> I've got 2 rtlsdr
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[09:04] <mwheeler> I need to mess around with our setup, the NUC we run them off seems to have power issues with 3 RTLSDRs
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[09:11] <TimMc_> are BOM launching more from different locations?
[09:13] <TimMc_> rs41sg = ozone? :D
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[09:23] <mwheeler> rs41 is normal
[09:23] <mwheeler> *rs41sg is normal
[09:23] <mwheeler> In Meloburne they launch from the airport, and sometimes from broadmeadows
[09:24] <mwheeler> broadmeadows is their training site, but they also do ozonesonde launches from there (typically rs92 sticky taped to the ozone sensor)
[09:27] <TimMc_> fancy
[09:28] <TimMc_> co-worker after I brought the radar reflector (?) and radiosonde into work: "Ooh, is that a radiosonde?" GIS developer/SME ūüėā
[09:35] <Lahti> https://www.vaisala.com/en/press-releases/2019-01/vaisala-provide-australian-bureau-meteorology-next-generation-automatic-sounding-systems
[09:35] <Lahti> Did you hear about this? It'll be the end of RS92 in Australia
[09:40] <mwheeler> yup, we have automatic sonde launches in a lot of places already, RS92 were planned to be decommissioned. It's likely the last thing to change is the ozonesonde
[09:40] <mwheeler> Alright, I think I fixed the NUC so that all SDRs are working
[09:41] <mwheeler> They tested ok, will have to wait and see if it crashes over time / in the heat
[09:42] <mwheeler> temp powered usb hub added https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/urBGjW2c/IMG_20190206_204141.jpg
[09:43] <mwheeler> Ignore the LNA4ALL, the antenna setup is meh at the moment while apartment legal things happen regard to "what is common property"
[09:43] <mwheeler> ideally that'll be installed at the top of the mast we've got down at the moment
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[09:49] <TimMc_> are those scanning different ranges?
[09:50] <mwheeler> same range, 400 to 403.0
[09:50] <mwheeler> actually , might need to bump that out a bit
[09:51] <mwheeler> *checks slides*
[09:54] <mwheeler> hmmm
[09:54] <mwheeler> yeah land mobile starts at 403 MHz
[09:54] <mwheeler> so technically today BoM probably breached the radio telecommunications act
[09:56] <mwheeler> there is even an article about it https://www.acma.gov.au/theACMA/flying-high
[10:05] <TimMc_> Is it illegal to turn these radiosondes on?
[10:06] <TimMc_> 400.15 to 403 MHz
[10:11] <mwheeler> yeah, but you can either desolder the antenna and put a 50 ohm resistor to ground so it's basically in a dummy load
[10:12] <mwheeler> or reprogram them with the opensource firmware and use ham bands (though you'll need to upgrade to a standard or higher license)
[10:12] <mwheeler> https://web.acma.gov.au/rrl/licence_image.extract_pdf?pLICENCE_NO=433820/1 is the broadmeadows license
[10:12] <mwheeler> I don't think they understand what frequencies they are allowed to use :P
[10:28] <TimMc_> heh
[10:30] <TimMc_> some hams reckon it's illegal under radcom to possess a device capable of transmitting on a frequency where you don't have a licence
[10:32] <craag> in a lot of countries it is
[10:34] <mwheeler> It's not very well worded and hasn't really been tested in court, but I think the interpretation that best fits is your not allowed to possess a device that couldn't be modified to transmit on a frequency in which you have a license
[10:35] <mwheeler> and since that means you can modify any device to transmit on any frequency, your all good provided you have a ham license :P
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[10:36] <TimMc_> ism ftw! 433
[10:36] <mwheeler> yeah, but those devices need to be aus tick'd
[10:36] <mwheeler> So you can't make your own
[10:36] <mwheeler> (not that anyone will care if your transmitting milliwatts)
[10:37] <TimMc_> Has anyone tracked radiosondes with an Arduino or ESP32 + gsm/lte module?
[10:37] <TimMc_> Arduino MKR1500 released soon :D
[10:38] <mwheeler> I don't think so. It'd be significant work and pi's / rtl_sdrs are cheaper than the time :P
[10:39] <TimMc_> I've got a 3rd rtlsdr on the way :D
[10:39] <mwheeler> what are you running autorx on ?
[10:39] <mwheeler> pi might struggle with 3
[10:43] <TimMc_> pi3 running 1 rtlsdr
[10:43] <TimMc_> might set some up in other locations
[10:46] <mwheeler> sweet
[10:46] <mwheeler> I'll probably skip tonights sonde, based on the prediction
[10:49] <Viproz> Darkside, https://imgur.com/a/dwKushv when I leave the auto_rx tab open overnight it eats up all of the memory, ptobably something that isn't cleared properly
[10:54] <Lahti> now is 2021
[10:55] <Lahti> T3430007
[10:57] <Lahti> Vaisala had launched a 2021 manufactured sonde just
[10:57] <Lahti> https://www.vaisala.com/sites/default/files/documents/Vaisala%20Radiosonde%20RS41%20Serial%20Number.pdf
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[11:02] <mwheeler> @Viproz interesting. I think we were aware of this. I remember trying to replicate it and couldn't
[11:03] <mwheeler> Viproz: do you still have it open?
[11:04] <Viproz> no it was preventing me from using my PC :D
[11:04] <Viproz> but I have noticed it a few time so it's probably going to happend again
[11:05] <Viproz> my theory right now is around there scan_chart_obj.load(scan_chart_spectra); (l.95 of html), we load but never unloads I don't think
[11:05] <mwheeler> Can you take a memory heap snapshot next time (should be in dev tools)
[11:13] <Viproz> I will
[11:13] <Viproz> If the docs of c3 are good my theory is wrong
[11:22] <mwheeler> Lahti: huh, that's interesting
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[11:38] <TimMc_> 1.7 V new batteries for my keyboard :P
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[11:55] <PB0AHX-Herman> !flights
[11:55] <SpacenearUS> 03PB0AHX-Herman: There are no flights currently :(
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[12:07] <Mainsail> mwheeler did you get the RS41 this morning?
[12:08] <mwheeler> Mainsail: i got both from this morning :)
[12:09] <mwheeler> and then took one of them back to the launch site :p
[12:09] <Mainsail> I was watching the 11:00 one. Where did it end up? On a roof/backyard?
[12:10] <mwheeler> First one was in a backyard
[12:10] <mwheeler> The second was behind a sports field / event place thing
[12:10] <Mainsail> Any difficulty getting access? I saw it was in a residential area.
[12:11] <mwheeler> a little yes
[12:12] <Mainsail> I know there is a Meterological office in Wagga Wagga, but not sure if they are still launching. I think they do, but not sure if it is automated.
[12:13] <Mainsail> There are reports on http://slash.dotat.org/cgi-bin/atmos so I guess they must be.
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[12:14] <Mainsail> BTW I came from the youtube video:- STM32 Development Boards (literally) Falling From The Sky
[12:27] <Darkside> Mainsail: oh nice
[12:28] <Darkside> Mainsail: Mark Jessop here
[12:28] <Darkside> Mainsail: from teh scheduling info i have, Wagga Wagga launches once a week, on mondays
[12:29] <Darkside> Mainsail: well, they launch wind soundings more often than that, but radiosondes are only on mondays at 00Z
[12:31] <Mainsail> So the soundings, are they just radar reflectors?
[12:35] <Darkside> yeah
[12:36] <Darkside> which means its a manual launch, as the radar they use to track them has to be locked manually
[12:37] <Mainsail> That must have been what I found ~30-35 years ago.... It was the foam/foil reflector with a penlight attached.
[12:43] <Darkside> yep
[12:43] <Darkside> they used to fly little torches... not any more
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[12:45] <Mainsail> Thanks. I'll have to get my Pi3 set-up for this (it has been sitting around waiting for a job). I'll probably miss Monday, and I won't be able to go chasing because of work.
[12:50] <Darkside> where are you based?
[12:50] <Mainsail> Wagga Wagga
[12:52] <Darkside> ahh!
[12:52] <Darkside> ok cool
[12:52] <Mainsail> ~10km west of BOM, but no LOS because of a hill.
[12:52] <Darkside> might be worth going to the airport one day to have a look
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[13:12] <Viproz> daveake, I have a RS falling at 17.5m/s at 12000m altitude, would you be able to know what the terminal velocity is ?
[13:13] <Viproz> if it's <5m/s I'm going to get it
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[13:17] <Darkside> >>> from chasemapper.atmosphere import *
[13:17] <Darkside> >>> seaLevelDescentRate(17.5, 12000)
[13:17] <Darkside> 8.83320508771527
[13:17] <Darkside> https://github.com/projecthorus/chasemapper/blob/master/chasemapper/atmosphere.py#L67
[13:18] <Darkside> :-)
[13:18] <Darkside> chasemapper has to do this calculation to be able to run predictions
[13:18] <Viproz> shit that's too fast
[13:19] <Darkside> whys that?
[13:19] <Viproz> 12m/s at 12km .
[13:19] <Viproz> ?*
[13:19] <Viproz> at this speed it's going to end in a lake
[13:19] <Darkside> what does sondehub show?
[13:19] <Darkside> it should give live predictions
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[13:19] <Darkside> and they are usually pretty good on descent
[13:20] <Viproz> it wasn't detecting it properly so I had to use SDRsharp to point the antenna correctly
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[13:20] <Darkside> ah
[13:21] <Darkside> right i need to get to bed
[13:21] <Darkside> gnight
[13:21] <Viproz> gn
[13:21] <daveake> Viproz: rule of thumb: landing = half speed @ 12km
[13:24] <daveake> My calculator says 8.92m/s
[13:26] <daveake> And mine assumes 100m ASL landing, as that's more typical, so that accounts for the difference :)
[13:26] <Viproz> okay thanks, too bad :/
[13:27] <daveake> I don't use it currently, but there's a google API that gives you approx land altitude for given lat/lon; using that should give a slightly better prediction
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[13:30] <Viproz> It's almost down, 6km altitude and going down 8.5m/s, it's too far and at the limit of the lake ^^
[13:32] <daveake> Vertical descent rate gets quite noisy through the tropopause so needs smoothing
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[14:09] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CHANGEME - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CHANGEME
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[14:30] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Manc - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Manc
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[15:04] <chris_99> Just to clarify something N type can be male/female right? so i'm just wondering what gender are aerials normally?
[15:06] <daveake> Yes, and the aerial will have a female connector
[15:06] <chris_99> thanks
[15:06] <chris_99> it seems everyone is out of stock of the one i was looking at now heh
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[15:28] <gonzo_> if these are the diamond type white stick collinears, they are often sold with N types or SO239. So check you order the correct one
[15:28] <chris_99> yeah they are, i was looking at the x50n one
[15:29] <gonzo_> the SO239 (and mating PL259) connectors are just nasty
[15:29] <chris_99> heh
[15:30] <russss> confusing name, annoying connector, bad design, bad performance, not much smaller than an N anyway. Nothing to like about them.
[15:30] <chris_99> so i'm thinking of getting something like: sma---n female adapter , n ----- n male cable + x50n antenna
[15:31] <craag> for practicality it can be nice to have a short flexible sma pigtail on your sdr(?) rather than directly attaching an n-type adaptor and thick cable (and one day breaking the socket off)
[15:32] <daveake> this ^^
[15:32] <chris_99> ah, good plan
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[15:34] <chris_99> https://www.nevadaradio.co.uk/cables-leads-plugs/readymade-leads/nevada-ldf450-20m is that a female or male N?
[15:35] <craag> that's a female
[15:35] <chris_99> cheers
[15:37] <craag> female-N to SMA pigtail in use: https://photos.app.goo.gl/c6NrqBsWNKzfe45T6
[15:41] <russss> and the old cable TV splitter trick I see
[15:41] <gonzo_> if this is for 434meg reception only, then an option is, to have a habamp somewhere close to the antenaan (in the loft or waterproof box) and then you can use cheaper more lossy caox down from the habamp to the radio/sdr
[15:43] <gonzo_> tbh, you will find ldf450 is a pain to work with
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[15:43] <gonzo_> so a few mtrs of rg213 from the antenna to hab amp, then you can use much thinner coax down to the radio
[15:43] <gonzo_> I use sat TV coax for this
[15:52] <chris_99> cool!one more little question, so i've found somewhere that has the antenna in
[15:52] <chris_99> i'm just wondering, what 'grade' coax
[15:53] <chris_99> should i get? i think they mentioned rg58
[15:57] <dbrooke> that's probably too lossy without an amp at the top
[15:57] <chris_99> ah, what grade would be best?
[15:57] <dbrooke> how long a run?
[15:58] <chris_99> 5 meters or less
[15:58] <dbrooke> rg213 would probably be OK for that
[15:58] <chris_99> is that what you use? i don't mind paying a bit extra
[16:00] <dbrooke> I do, though there are some better options in similar physical size
[16:01] <chris_99> ah, what are the better options for curiousity, so i can compare the price?
[16:01] <chris_99> i've never used coax before, so this is very new to me
[16:02] <gonzo_> roughly 10mtrs of Rg213 would be fine.
[16:02] <dbrooke> one example would be westflex 103 - if you're putting connectors on yourself then make sure to get the right ones for the cable
[16:03] <gonzo_> if you are able to use a preamp (habamp etc.) up close to the antenna, that makes evertyhing so much easier
[16:03] <chris_99> would it be a bad idea to make a cable with N ---- SMA, or are there reasons that would be good
[16:04] <dbrooke> rg213 loses about 15dB/100m at 400MHz, westflex 103 about 11dB
[16:04] <chris_99> thanks!
[16:05] <gonzo_> you don't really see many sma connectors that fit thick coax
[16:05] <dbrooke> you'd want thinner cable for an N to SMA cable so it would be higher loss
[16:05] <chris_99> ahh
[16:06] <dbrooke> see that pic craag posted https://photos.app.goo.gl/c6NrqBsWNKzfe45T6
[16:06] <chris_99> ah yeah
[16:06] <gonzo_> my system: antenna, ~6mtrs RG213, habamp, lost of steiching and other crap, ~50mtrs of CT100 sat TV coax, AR5000 receiver
[16:06] <gonzo_> switching
[16:06] <dbrooke> the thicker black cable tied to the table leg looks like rg213 size
[16:06] <craag> it's ldf4-50 :)
[16:06] <russss> chris_99: it's usually better to buy those smaller cables. They aren't too expensive and they're a pain to make. It's sometimes quite hard to get hold of the right connector.
[16:07] <dbrooke> OK, bit bigger, much less bendy 8-)
[16:07] <russss> like N-type to tiny coax connectors
[16:07] <craag> hence mitigating the sin of having the preamp downstream :P
[16:08] <gonzo_> the heliax cables (ldf) the outer conductor is rubber copper tube. It really is tough and hard to route.
[16:08] <gonzo_> ribbed
[16:08] <dbrooke> craag: no, you need at least ldf5-50 for that 8-)
[16:09] <craag> lol - tbh don't exactly know what it's designation was. definitely heliax of some kind and 20m of it worked rather well ;)
[16:09] <gonzo_> I can never undersrtand why it is so difficult to convince hams to put LAN's up the mast. I think it is them not wanting to put stuff where they can't show it off
[16:10] <russss> haha
[16:10] <russss> well sometimes it's nice to fiddle around with stuff without going outside in the cold.
[16:10] <dbrooke> craag: looks more like 4 than 5 and for 20m not a problem
[16:10] <dbrooke> gonzo_: also transmitting?
[16:11] <russss> but you can't beat the loss of ethernet cable imo
[16:11] <gonzo_> do it right, do it once, no need to go outside to fiddle
[16:11] <gonzo_> I put PA's on the mast if I can
[16:11] <gonzo_> my radios are in the house, the antennas are on the shed, so the PA/LNA's go..... in the shed
[16:13] <dbrooke> makes sense, given suitable remote switching
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[16:14] <gonzo_> the switching is a whole shelf full of guff. Loads of losses, but all compenstaed for by gain, in the right places
[16:16] <PE2BZ> My antennas are on the roof. Cable length to ¨under the roof¨ is about 5 m, my (filtered !) preamps are under the roof, because I want to be able to use for example my x-5000 on 3 bands, with only one pre-amp for 433 MHz but sometimes for 403 MHz
[16:16] <gonzo_> roof space/loft is a good place. As it's accessible and warm/dry
[16:16] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03dl2iaq_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=dl2iaq_chase
[16:18] <chris_99> Do you have to use a preamp out of interest then, even with low loss coax?
[16:18] <russss> you don't have to
[16:18] <russss> but it helps
[16:18] <russss> and they're not expensive
[16:19] <PE2BZ> but not to me mounted at the end of a cable with high loss, so no ¨20 meter RG58¨ and then try to amplify the signal with a preamp at the end of the cable
[16:19] <PE2BZ> That way the noisy signal gets amplified
[16:20] <PE2BZ> not to BE mounted ;-)
[16:20] <gonzo_> worth having, for the filtering. Not obligatory, unless there are strong local signals and you are using wide receivers, (rtl/airspy etc)
[16:21] <chris_99> i'm going to use a B200, that seems to have some gain control thing, i dunno how much that would help though?
[16:22] <gonzo_> ideally, a filtered preamp, up near the antenna. Ypu don't then need low loss coax after the preamp (to the radio)
[16:23] <chris_99> gotcha, ta, what preamp do you use?
[16:23] <gonzo_> what's a b200?
[16:23] <chris_99> usrp b200 sorry
[16:23] <gonzo_> don't know it, but is probably quiet wideband
[16:23] <PE2BZ> That¬īs a wideband SDR with no bandpass filtering if I remember right ?
[16:24] <gonzo_> https://store.uputronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=53
[16:25] <chris_99> cheers
[16:31] <chris_99> one thing i don't fully understand, why is a filter necessary though? i understand the preamp helps amplify the signal, but not sure about the filter, like can't you apple a software bandpass filter
[16:31] <chris_99> with the SDR
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[16:32] <PE2BZ> You have to have the hardware on the SDR for that kind of bandpass filter, it has to be ¬®software controlled¬® so you can set bandpass (or cutoff) frequencies with DC voltage or I2C data. Those filters are not common on SDR¬īs in that price range.
[16:33] <gonzo_> if you have strong local signals, they are present at the input of your receiver, even if you are not trying to listen to them. And if string enough, they can saturate the input of your receiver, making it hard to tune the signals you are interested in
[16:33] <chris_99> ah gotcha, thanks
[16:33] <superkuh> Or they can be high powered enough to make it past the mixer filtering and end up in other places on the spectrum. Many places.
[16:33] <gonzo_> if that happens you cannot do anything to filter it in software
[16:33] <chris_99> i see, ta
[16:34] <PE2BZ> I have had the X40 from Nuand and the HackRF both with the need for filters in the antenna line when strong signals appear
[16:35] <chris_99> ah, i'll save up for a filter thing then, to start with i hope i'll be ok without
[16:35] <gonzo_> think of it like trying to hear someone whislling a 1kHz note, while standing next to a 10kW speaker stack, playing music. Your ears are saturates and distorting, so that no matter how hard you listen, you can't hear the note being whistled
[16:35] <chris_99> mm heh, that's a good analogy
[16:36] <PE2BZ> gonzo_ nice !
[16:36] <PE2BZ> Most of us hear the whistling for days √°fter standing near a 10 kW speaker ;-)
[16:36] <PE2BZ> I am afc (awau for cooking)
[16:37] <gonzo_> what your filter/amp costs you, you will probably save in coax. Put the filter at the antenna and you can use cheap coax at a few pennies per meter, down to the radio
[16:37] <gonzo_> sat TV cable is £40 for 250mtrs. I brought another roll yesterday
[16:38] <gonzo_> LDF450 will probably be £5/mtrs, if it's new
[16:38] <gonzo_> I spent my youth next to big speaker stacks. Always carried earplugs
[16:42] <gonzo_> (the caveat on the preamp, if you are intending to get your AR licence and TX through that antenna, you will be better off with one run of low loss coax, from antenna to radios)
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[18:19] <Lahti> a few more hours and grab the Tallinn M10 with this antenna https://aijaa.com/ec29f6
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[19:48] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HA6SZT after 0321 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HA6SZT
[20:05] <chris_99> Does anyone know what you're supposed to do if the test date (not sure what the correct name is) of a gas regulator, has been passed?
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[21:21] <chris_99> Just found out about this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADM-Aeolus
[21:21] <Viproz> mwheeler, I can't take a memory screenshot, it crashes before it's done
[21:22] <mwheeler> ah. no problem, I'll look into it
[21:23] <Viproz> chris_99, yep, I don't know for how long they're going to keep on launching RS, at least 3-5 years since it takes about this long to buy and launch a satellite so probably 2x
[21:24] <chris_99> RS?
[21:26] <mwheeler> radiosonde
[21:27] <chris_99> oh gotcha, you mean that sat could replace them?
[21:32] <Viproz> I think so, so far we didn't have the capability to measure the winds at all altitudes without sending something but with these new project it becomes possible to do without radiosondes
[21:33] <Viproz> I don't really know about the hydro or the temperature though
[21:33] <chris_99> mm gotcha. I don't know anything about meteorology but before where they only using visual imagery of clouds to infer winds, or was there still other more sophisticated techniques with the sats?
[21:40] <Viproz> before radiosondes ?
[21:41] <chris_99> no sorry, i mean before this satalite which uses lasers, with just satalites, did they only use visual imagery of clouds etc. to infer winds
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[22:05] <Medad> Do you think it is a good idea to set the RTTY frequency of two trackers so close together such that it would be able to fit within the 3000hz bandwidth limit(set by the Funcube dongle SDR or Dlfldigi, not sure) so that I can decode telemetry from 2 trackers?
[22:07] <SA6BSS-Mike> how far between launches?
[22:08] <SA6BSS-Mike> and you can extend dlfldigi to 4000hz
[22:08] <SA6BSS-Mike> its been done manay times before sucsessfully
[22:09] <Medad> approximately one hour apart between launch
[22:09] <SA6BSS-Mike> ok
[22:09] <daveake> Also you can feed 2 copies of dl-fldigi from 2 SDR programs (or one program if it's SDR-Console (I think that's the one))
[22:10] <SA6BSS-Mike> you can ofc place them further appart, and yes as davake says , sdr console can have many vfo in the bw of the receiver
[22:10] <SA6BSS-Mike> so FC is it 192 khz?
[22:11] <Medad> I understand 2 instances of Dl fldigi but why 2 sdr programs?
[22:11] <SA6BSS-Mike> no, only one sdr console
[22:11] <daveake> So the 2 payloads don't have to sit within the 4kHz
[22:11] <SA6BSS-Mike> it have multi vfo from same rx dongle
[22:12] <daveake> yup
[22:12] <Medad> I have the Funcube dongle pro. Do you know if such as capablity is there( if you have used one)
[22:12] <daveake> What I said was that SDR Console can do it; with other (some) SDR programs you can multiple copies of the program
[22:12] <SA6BSS-Mike> I have not used one but im 99% sure its ok
[22:12] <Medad> to tune 2 far apart frequencies?
[22:12] <daveake> yeah
[22:12] <SA6BSS-Mike> yes
[22:13] <daveake> I've done it with 5 separate VFOs and 5 dl-fldigis
[22:13] <SA6BSS-Mike> but you have to use viritual audio cable
[22:13] <SA6BSS-Mike> are you on windows
[22:13] <SA6BSS-Mike> ?
[22:13] <Medad> yes indeed
[22:13] <daveake> Yup. Just make enough of them
[22:14] <SA6BSS-Mike> fine then, but keeping them within 4000hz should be fine as well
[22:14] <SA6BSS-Mike> BUT the could drift into each other
[22:14] <Medad> So with a SINGLE SDR I can tune to multiple frequencies that are far apart, am I right?
[22:14] <daveake> yes
[22:14] <SA6BSS-Mike> yes, within the sdr rx bw
[22:14] <Medad> Yes I am aware of the drift problem
[22:15] <SA6BSS-Mike> thumbup
[22:15] <daveake> They have to be within 100kHz or whatever the SDR bandwidth is
[22:15] <Medad> That is plenty of room
[22:15] <daveake> yes
[22:15] <Medad> Thank you very much Dave and Mike
[22:15] <Medad> for the information
[22:16] <SA6BSS-Mike> look for VAC or vb cable iirc
[22:16] <daveake> I did 3 LoRa flights within an hour or so, all on the same frequency, but they took turns to transmit
[22:16] <daveake> The reason for that was so that each could repeat transmissions from the other 2
[22:16] <Medad> How do you prevent them from transmitting at the same time? do you sync them all at the beginning?
[22:16] <daveake> GPS synced
[22:16] <SA6BSS-Mike> you have to pipe the audio from each vfo to separatee dlfldig throuch separate virtual audio cables
[22:17] <daveake> I had a 20-second cycle and each Tx was about 1 second IIRC
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[22:18] <daveake> With 3 payloads that was 3 direct transmissions and 6 repeated, per 20 second cycle
[22:18] <daveake> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/whGQlWmk/image.png
[22:18] <Medad> Nice!
[22:19] <daveake> Best bit was that when the first payload landed the other 2 could still "see" it and repeated the landing position
[22:20] <SA6BSS-Mike> yeah, that was a cool flight(s)
[22:20] <SA6BSS-Mike> one of them landed on a factory roof iirc
[22:20] <daveake> #2 did yes!
[22:20] <SA6BSS-Mike> ok :)
[22:20] <daveake> Got that back on the Monday after calling the company :)
[22:21] <daveake> I turned up and had to sit through a safety training video before I was let onto site
[22:21] <daveake> Took 10 minutes to watch that; 30 seconds to get the payload back
[22:22] <SA6BSS-Mike> got my new pcb:s and built one and tested it, works fine, just lerned what tented vias and exposed vias are in eagle, darn :/ but I can scrape of some solder point https://imgur.com/a/kSDsKGb
[22:22] <SA6BSS-Mike> ha, that one I did not hear about :)
[22:27] <Viproz> I don't really understand what LoRa is, is it just the protocol of communication ? Do you then use thethingsnetwork when you launch a high altitude balloon or some other network ? I don't see where LoRaWAN fits into that, does someone have a rundown on all of that somewhere ?
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[22:27] <SA6BSS-Mike> ++ one on this question
[22:31] <daveake> LoRa is just a modulation scheme, so just an alternative to RTTY etc
[22:32] <dbrooke> LoRa is a modulation scheme, LoRaWAN is a protocol over that, the things network uses LoRaWAN
[22:32] <daveake> LoRaWAN is a load more stuff on top
[22:32] <dbrooke> at least we agree 8-)
[22:32] <daveake> :)
[22:33] <daveake> So LoRaWAN uses LoRa for transmission, using a limited set of the available LoRa settings (frequency, bandwidth, spreading factor etc) and at a low duty cycle
[22:34] <daveake> So LoRaWAN is usable for HAB but not ideal as the data rate is low - so no live images
[22:34] <daveake> Also the range is compromised somewhat, though that said the distance record from a HAB is a pretty impressive 400 miles
[22:35] <SA6BSS-Mike> tnx all come together now, it was the thing with lorawan network and using the lora modulation as data carrier that I could not get my head round
[22:36] <daveake> With LoRa the received packets just get sent up to habhub unchanged (by my LoRa gateway for example); for LoRaWAN they go to The Things Network; a separate program reads them from TTN and uploads to habhub
[22:36] <daveake> I only really started looking into it today :)
[22:36] <daveake> A supplier has offered some freebies so I'll make a tracker and TTN gateway
[22:36] <SA6BSS-Mike> yea, I read up on that , you have to have you own licens? and servet to pull things of the mail lorawan server
[22:36] <SA6BSS-Mike> *main
[22:36] <daveake> No license
[22:36] <SA6BSS-Mike> ok
[22:37] <Viproz> So LoRaWAN is something on top to decide what to do with the packets ?
[22:37] <daveake> Just a TTN account and set up your tracker (node) within the TTN system
[22:38] <daveake> And yes a separate program pulls that data off TTN (well, I think it registers an interest in a particular node and then waits for the packets to get forwarded, but I've not read up that bit yet)
[22:38] <SA6BSS-Mike> as I figured lorawan have a centrla server for all the package the system hear, all nodes report to this central server and you can pull info from it, that is how I interpet it
[22:38] <daveake> Yeah that's how I understand it too
[22:39] <daveake> I think it should be easily possible to have a single tracker with single LoRa module that does straight habhub LoRa stuff most of the time but sends out a LoRaWAN packet periodically
[22:40] <daveake> Then you get on both rx networks and still have the same high bandwidth, pretty much
[22:40] <daveake> It's all be 868/869MHz 'cos that's where LoRaWAN sits in Europe
[22:41] <daveake> It'd ^
[22:41] <SA6BSS-Mike> that would be like doing rtty / aprs, manual and automatic upload
[22:41] <SA6BSS-Mike> tnx for info!
[22:41] <Viproz> thanks for the rundown, you need a special chip to emit with lora right ?
[22:42] <SA6BSS-Mike> ic or as I reccon ready made modules , rfm 95 / 98 ?
[22:42] <daveake> A LoRa one yeah, though no doubt someone has made a transmitter using one of the Tx SDRs
[22:42] <daveake> yeah
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[22:43] <Viproz> can you make a RX node with a simple SDR ?
[22:43] <Viproz> RX LoRa node I should say*
[22:44] <daveake> It has been done but I don't think it's as good as an actual module
[22:44] <daveake> LoRa hardware is pretty cheap anyway
[22:45] <Viproz> the other day you guys were talking about setting up a node saying it was quite expensive because you had to listen to quite a fex frequencies but it was for a TTN node right ?
[22:46] <Viproz> and you buy LoRa stuff on aliexpress or is there some other recommended place ?
[22:46] <SA6BSS-Mike> that was a lorawan ttn node they where talking about
[22:46] <SA6BSS-Mike> so yes
[22:47] <SA6BSS-Mike> those rfm modules are on ali expres for about 10$ ? have not looked for some time
[22:47] <SA6BSS-Mike> oh, they are down to 4-5$
[22:48] <daveake> Yeah proper TTN nodes handle several frequencies at once e.g. the device I'm getting does 8
[22:48] <daveake> er gateway ^^ not node
[22:49] <Viproz> okay, wrong vocabulary on my part, it makes a lot more sense though, thanks !
[22:52] <Viproz> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3KM-433MHz-SX1278-Lora-Long-Distance-Wireless-Data-Trans-Module-Testing-Board-Development-Board/32781622993.html this feels too cheap, 1.79¬
[22:55] <SA6BSS-Mike> its probably ok
[22:57] <daveake> hmmmm ... I see no lora on that board. Looks like something to plug a separate lora board onto, to give you a TTL serial interface to LoRa
[22:58] <SA6BSS-Mike> look for rfm95w
[22:59] <SA6BSS-Mike> and rfm98
[22:59] <SA6BSS-Mike> 3.5$ for a 434 lora module, cheap!
[23:01] <Viproz> The SX1278 does seem to be a LoRa module https://cdn-shop.adafruit.com/product-files/3179/sx1276_77_78_79.pdf
[23:02] <Viproz> this is awesome, I soon as I have an address I'm going to buy a few of some of those modules !
[23:08] <daveake> Yes that's one of them
[23:08] <daveake> For HAB 433/434 is best; for LoRaWAN you'll want 868/8769
[23:08] <daveake> 869
[23:08] Medad (027db12d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.125.177.45) left irc: Ping timeout: 256 seconds
[00:00] --- Thu Feb 7 2019