highaltitude.log.20190202

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[00:26] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK5LJG-9_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VK5LJG-9_chase
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[05:39] <Darkside> lahti_: we
[05:39] <Darkside> lahti_: we're working on a method to block callsigns fron uploading
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[07:57] <Jdosps> Hello
[07:58] <Jdosps> Do we know how temperatures at ground level relate to temperatures at 5 to 10km? Does temp there track ground temperature, is it constant, or does it vary based on other effects?
[08:08] <edmoore> Jdosps: all the above
[08:09] <edmoore> it's very very roughly the ground temp - 0.0065C/m
[08:09] <edmoore> but it depends on all sorts of things - solar activity, jetstreams and other winds, cloud cover/albedo, a million other things
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[09:03] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03JOAL12 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=JOAL12
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[09:09] <mard7> edmoore, can you elaborate please? Also, is there any place we can read about it?
[09:13] <edmoore> 5-10km is still the tropopause
[09:14] <edmoore> so really it's still just govered by 'weather' in the way that, say, the stratosphere isn't
[09:15] <edmoore> so really your question is, is there a place one can read about weather, and of course yes there is, you could spend many PhDs trying to understand it. but this chunk of wikipedia expands slightly on some of the other effects (e.g humidity) complicating it over just a straight linear lapse rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troposphere#Temperature
[09:15] <edmoore> sorry, i meant tropsophere above
[09:16] <edmoore> 5-10km is the troposphere, not tropopause, which is the layer above
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[09:27] <mard7> Thank you.
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[10:30] <mard7> What receivers provide frequency range over 5Ghz?
[10:31] <mard7> https://greatscottgadgets.com/hackrf/ offers 1 MHz to 6 GHz operating frequency but as it's a bit pricey I would like to compare it with other devices. Can you recommend anything?
[10:32] <chris_99> what freq are you trying to recieve out of interest with an SDR
[10:35] <mard7> I'm interested in 5 Ghz and up.
[10:36] <Darkside> generally reception up there is done using downconverters and receiving at a lower IF
[10:36] <PE2BZ> mard7 what kind of signals ? Wif / wireless links ? The HackRF is the cheapest SDR which goes up to 6 GHz
[10:42] <chris_99> i think the limesdr is a similar price, not used it though, or know much about it
[10:42] <chris_99> oh but lower freq range sorry
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[10:52] <mard7> pe2bz i'm interested in these satellites https://downloads.bbc.co.uk/reception/pdfs/satellitefrequencies.pdf
[10:53] <zyp> mard7, you'd normally use a dish with a LNB which outputs IF a bit over 1 GHz
[10:53] <mard7> in general, i want to try to receive signals from satellites with much higher frequencies. never tried that before.
[10:54] <zyp> it's not normal to transport the raw 11 GHz from the disc
[10:54] <PE2BZ> As zyp notices, much better solution.
[10:54] <zyp> coax would have pretty bad attenuation at 11 GHz, you don't want to have to transport it by cable
[10:54] <PE2BZ> A 10 pound LNB, a 50 pound receiver and a 20 pound dish ?
[10:55] <mard7> could you please propose something in particular? (URLs)
[10:55] <PE2BZ> No... Please google. You live in the UK ?
[10:56] <zyp> any common tv dish, any SDR that'll do over 1 GHz and a tee so you can feed power to the LNB
[10:56] <mard7> yes, I do.
[10:56] <mard7> I googled a few minutes ago, but there are tons of these. hah!
[10:56] <zyp> I've done some experimentation with airspy before
[10:57] <PE2BZ> That´s why I am not going to post something here. All have cons and pro
[10:57] <mard7> is LNB the same as LNA?
[10:57] <zyp> although I didn't end up finding the sat I were looking for, there were some trees in the way :)
[10:57] <PE2BZ> You even could visit a shop ;-)
[10:57] <zyp> not entirely
[10:57] <mard7> pe2bz, okay i though you're using or used something in the past and can make a recommendation.
[10:57] <zyp> a LNB is a combined LNA and downconverter (and usually feed horn and everything too)
[10:58] <PE2BZ> zyp replace LNB with laser. Cut trees with laser. Replace laser with lnb problem solved ;-)
[10:58] <zyp> hehe
[10:58] <zyp> I actually used a flat square antenna, not a traditional dish and LNB
[10:58] <zyp> but signal wise it's the same
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[10:59] <PE2BZ> mard7 I have been translator for ¨Tele Satellite magazin¨ so I know something about dishes, LNB´s and coax cables yes, but I have both IP TV and fiber to the home now so I can not advice you seriously. It´s a bit off topic for highaltitude also.
[10:59] <mard7> is there any place i can read more about this kind of setup? including downconverters as I have no clue what's that and how it works.
[11:00] <zyp> you could start at wikipedia
[11:00] <zyp> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-noise_block_downconverter
[11:02] <mard7> fantastic!
[11:05] <PE2BZ> mard7 could take a look at this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SKY-HD-FREESAT-PVR4-300GB-SATELLITE-RECEIVER-BOX-INC-ZONE-1-DISH-25M-KIT/321561775950?hash=item4ade934f4e:g:y-YAAOSwll1WwE89:rk:33:pf:0
[11:07] <zyp> you could look at your local secondhand websites, people often get rid of old tv dishes cheaply or even for free
[11:07] <zyp> I've seen «you can have it for free if you just come pick it down from my wall» here
[11:08] <mard7> pe2bz, zyp, great! I thought it's a more complex 'decision' but i think I will just get one but regarding my initial question about HACKRF receiver, does it mean https://greatscottgadgets.com/hackrf/ with a 6 GHz operating frequency isnt't the best solution for higher frequencies (let's say 3-6Ghz)?
[11:08] <zyp> why wouldn't it be?
[11:08] <mard7> If so, why or how people use HACKRF device? specifically, 3-6Ghz frequencies.
[11:09] <PE2BZ> If you not intend to receive broadcast satellites with it and feed it with signals which are filtered and / or amplified it´s great eauipment.
[11:09] <zyp> I'm not familiar with the hackrf, but when it's specced up to 6 GHz, I don't see why it couldn't be used there
[11:10] <Darkside> perhaps you should be talking to the people in #hearsat, who do a lot of satellite monitoring work
[11:10] <russss> yeah #hearsat is good
[11:10] <mard7> zyp, that's what I understood from Darkside's reply, here: [10:36] <Darkside> generally reception up there is done using downconverters and receiving at a lower IF
[11:10] <PE2BZ> But I had 1 original, I fried it with a non earthed computer being earthed by USB port and antenna cable, after which I bought a 120 Euro Chine version which does not appear to be as sensitive as the original was.
[11:10] <zyp> mard7, I presume that was about 11 GHz, not 6 GHz
[11:11] <zyp> AFAIK, most broadcast satellites are in the 11 GHz range
[11:11] <PE2BZ> It[ valid for weak signals at least. Filter, amplify, filter, amplify, convert to reasonable frequency and receive
[11:11] <russss> the problem is your cable losses are very large at higher frequencies, so downconverters are the best solution unless you're strapping your receiver straight to the dish
[11:12] <russss> satellite LNBs are also cheap and you don't have to worry about feedhorn design or anything
[11:13] <mard7> Maybe my questions should be: what operates in the 3-6 GHz range that I can play with (get practice listening)? WiFi, 2.4Ghz, I guess. what else?
[11:14] <russss> https://uhf-satcom.com/satellite-reception/c-band
[11:15] <mard7> oh man! this is exactly what i was lookig for. ;) so it's called C-band. good to know.
[11:19] <PE2BZ> May I quote Mark: <Darkside> perhaps you should be talking to the people in #hearsat, who do a lot of satellite monitoring work
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[11:20] <russss> yeah the person who runs uhf-satcom.com is in #hearsat and they know far more than I do
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[11:44] <mard7> russss, as for https://uhf-satcom.com/satellite-reception/c-band I searched through the whole website but can't find any frequencies between 4.2 - 6Ghz. Can you help?
[11:47] <russss> I'm sure there are some satellites in that range, I'm not sure why they're not listed.
[11:48] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03ATB-HAB-1 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ATB-HAB-1
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[11:56] <Bozzy> !flights
[11:56] <SpacenearUS> 03Bozzy: There are no flights currently :(
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[12:37] <PE2BZ> The C-band stops at about 3.7 GHz I thought
[12:39] <PE2BZ> mard7 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_band_(IEEE)
[12:40] Action: PE2BZ was at the bottom range ;-)
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[13:31] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HG8LXL - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HG8LXL
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[13:48] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SQ2ODE_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SQ2ODE_chase
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[14:04] <t09> When I do WHOIS on my nickname it shows my IP (I guess?): [14:03] == realname : 86.134.15.32 - http://webchat.freenode.net
[14:04] <t09> When I do the same on darkside's nickname, it displays a nickname: [14:01] == realname : darkside
[14:04] <t09> Why is that?
[14:05] <PE2BZ> !whois darkside
[14:26] <Ian_> Must be the little brother . . . :)
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[14:38] <Lahti> elevation 0.0 https://aijaa.com/yYS5nq
[14:40] <t09> interesting ;)
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[14:51] <t09> I want to ask my landlord to give me a permission to put an antenna on the roof, I bet a few of you wrote something like that in the past. Would you be so kind and share your document with me?
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[15:01] <Lahti> tv uhf antenna little extensions so good will come https://aijaa.com/ec29f6
[15:02] <PE2BZ> t09 not me... I moved house to a city where the allowance to place antenna´s up to 5 m above the roof was allowed by default :-)
[15:04] <Ian_> Landlords are apt to think about damage to property, mainly theirs. How about an antenna (colinear) on a pole, beside the house, rather than mounted on it?
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[15:05] <Ian_> Another advantage of not being on the house is lack of noise produced by wind.
[15:06] <PE2BZ> There is a difference at my place ;-) no landlord... But indeed for t09 that could be a good option. Usually makes the lengths of coax a bit longer, on the other hand, SDR receivers with Raspberries and a 100 m utp cable could also be an option
[15:07] Action: PE2BZ left one X-50 unattended pushed under the solar panels. Now the same x-50 is still there, but now has a plastic bag in the mounting tube.... #playflute
[15:09] <t09> Ian_, what's the problem with wind? Does it generate noise in the signal?
[15:11] Action: t09 never heard about it. Why is that?
[15:12] <PE2BZ> Wind does blow in tubes, from antennas, masts and so on. If all is closed well enough no one complains. But some neighbours might here the wind in the antenna mast or antenna
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[15:18] <t09> Oh!!! I tought you guys mean the wind reduces the signal strenght or the quality of the signal. ;)) hhahahhaa
[15:18] <PE2BZ> If it´s not blowing in your ears that´s not the problem ;-)
[15:23] <Ian_> I was meaning vibration from attached masts being a nuisance to the householders. Noise conduction through the wall. I think that Upu noticed noise from his yagi when the wind blew and rotator noise too.
[15:23] <Ian_> PE2BZ blows straight through if it goes in one ear :-)
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[16:35] <t09> ;-)
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[17:28] <Medad> Imperial College Space Society ballooning group is planning to do another twin pico balloon launch from London next Saturday. It will be almost the same hardware as the launch from ICSPACE2 and 3. I will put out an announcement on the mailing list later in the week.
[17:28] <Medad> The wind predictions show that the flight path will be very similar to ICSPACE2 and 3. From London towards the Netherlands
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[17:44] <nimnil> yo.
[17:45] <nimnil> i have a sdr dongle and want to receive rtty packages from a pi in the sky. but the dl-fldig package does not compile. are there other options?
[17:45] <nimnil> i am using linux.
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[17:49] <cm13g09> nimnil: "Does not compile"? Can you give more specifics? Which distribution?
[17:50] <t09> Medad, I hope this time it will work. At least for a while. :) If you are not sure or didn't test it properly than it might be wiser to spend time to make it work before a launch.
[17:54] <nimnil> cm13g09: i will recompile with english language.
[17:56] <cm13g09> nimnil: Which Linux distribution are you using?
[17:57] <cm13g09> On debian and related, run "lsb_release -c" to get the answer I need
[17:57] <nimnil> cm13g09: i am using arch
[17:57] <nimnil> cm13g09: https://pastebin.dalnix.se/?2cb6c12a5167502c#4GfFePlQcBQzlN0Q44pHlE8MB/k/dbscG/4VkcvC0+Y=
[17:58] <cm13g09> nimnil: Interesting
[17:59] <cm13g09> I don't know anyone using Arch here
[17:59] <cm13g09> I have done some work on debian derived
[17:59] <cm13g09> but I can't really help with Arch problems
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[18:08] <nimnil> i found another package, will try that one
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[18:19] <nimnil> yeah that one worked after some tweaking
[18:20] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03tracker1 after 03a month silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=tracker1
[18:44] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HA6SZT after 0319 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HA6SZT
[19:13] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03WB8ELK-1 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WB8ELK-1
[19:18] <tweetBot> @SP9UOB: 5.3 gram solar powered #picoballoon payload with #aprs and #ukhas telemetry is waiting to be launched with regular& https://t.co/ckkMiZNGoB
[19:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03N4XWC-1 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N4XWC-1
[19:22] <tweetBot> @BCRLiveStream: Radio Chatter! 📻 #SP9UOB // 5.3 gram solar powered #picoballoon payload with #aprs and #ukhas telemetry is waiting& https://t.co/sbzcPYzskf
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[19:33] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03N4XWC-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N4XWC-11
[19:39] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KJ4TDM-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KJ4TDM-11
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[21:51] <t09> hey
[21:51] <t09> I want to ask my landlord to give me a permission to put an antenna on the roof, I bet a few of you wrote something like that in the past. Would you be so kind and share your document with me?
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[22:36] <Ian_> t09 This is a repeat question. As I explained earlier, landlords are as a rule unlikely to give such permission. it would leave them on a sticky wicket with their insurance company if anything were to cause damage and you would likely wish to wriggle out of stumping up ££$$ for any large liability; due to unexpected circumstances. Why should a sane landlord opt in to something like that.
[22:36] <Ian_> Want an antenna on the roof, buy a house.
[22:37] <Darkside> haha
[22:37] <Darkside> hahahaah
[22:37] <Darkside> i rented a house that came with a 30ft mast and a 3-element HF yagi
[22:37] <SIbot5> In real units: 30 ft = 9.14 m
[22:37] <Darkside> but my landlord is a ham radio operator
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[22:38] <bertrik> maybe this is one of those "don't ask for permission, ask for forgiveness instead" things :)
[22:43] <Ian_> I repeat the advice given earlier, to put the antenna on a pole, not attached to the house. Darkside, it obviously pays to know the right people ;-)
[22:47] <Ian_> My brother had a Ham father in law, in Penang, who had a bamboo mast and a cubical quad that made a significant dink in the roof of his bungalow . . . call the landlord to engage a builder time for roofing and guttering repairs. If you accept the risks and can afford it, then dig in.
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[23:09] <t09> :)
[23:09] <t09> I can't put an antenna on a pole, I live in a city.
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[00:00] --- Sun Feb 3 2019