highaltitude.log.20190120

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[09:12] <PE2BZ> SA6BSS-Mike the code and config file are here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/wmnrjxwyjtaoclr/LoRaTracker_HAB2_maduino_3v_readout_.zip?dl=0
[09:13] <PE2BZ> Needs some libraries, link follows
[09:14] <PE2BZ> SA6BSS-Mike the LoRaTracker-Library from Stuart Robinson is also needed https://github.com/LoRaTracker/LoRaTracker-Library
[09:19] <PE2BZ> Powered directly on the 3.3 V input, BOD set to 1.8 V, 3.3 by 100 K to A0 for voltage measurement and A0 by 1.2 K to ground which gave an error of < 5 percent between the reported voltage and the Fluke voltage
[09:31] <PE2BZ> Ian_ thanks ! We where preparing to pick it up somewhere on that roof then suddenly it changed it´s mind ;-)
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[09:57] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> PE2BZ: tnx, Il have a look to see if I can make samller pcb layout with gps on the same pcb
[09:57] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> *smaller
[10:59] <PE2BZ> Nice Mike !
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[12:03] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> SA6BSS-Mike|2: did you connect the gps to pins 30 31 tx tx?
[12:03] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> *rx tx
[12:04] <PE2BZ> Talking to yourself again ?
[12:04] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> haha :)
[12:04] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> I did , yeah :)
[12:04] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> question was to you
[12:05] <PE2BZ> Ahhh
[12:05] <PE2BZ> A2, A3 on the maduino board
[12:05] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> ok
[12:08] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK5LJG-9_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VK5LJG-9_chase
[12:31] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 039A3ZI-12 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=9A3ZI-12
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[14:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KB1KVR - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KB1KVR
[14:55] Nick change: BitEvil -> SpeedEvil
[14:56] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PR8KW_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PR8KW_chase
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[15:21] <daniel35> Hey
[15:23] <daniel35> Which coaxial cable do you recommend? 1) RG213 (50 Ohm), 2) Westflex 103 (50 Ohm), 3) RG6 (75 Ohm), 4) Other? :) ?
[15:27] <fsphil> wouldn't bother with 75 ohm coax unless your antenna matches
[15:39] <daniel35> Oki. Thanks a lot. What's the difference between 50 vs 75 Ohm?
[15:46] <daveake> 25 ohms. badoom tish
[15:47] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KN4JHP-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KN4JHP-11
[15:48] <daveake> If you mismatch the impedances then there's power loss due to reflected signals. Mostly an issue if you're transmitting
[15:51] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> you have a missmatch of 4:1.5 mening you are losing 4% of power if you are using a 75ohm cable compared to a 50ohm
[15:51] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> * 1:1.5
[15:52] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> so does not mather , but I should get 50 ohm if you are going to tx through it
[15:52] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> if you are after a rx only any cable will work, I use good 7mm 75 ohm TV/sat coax for my rx systems
[15:54] <daniel35> re daveake, in other words, should I aim for higher Ohm value (e.g. 75) or lower (e.g. 50)?
[15:54] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ex2 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ex2
[15:56] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03MAD-1a - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MAD-1a
[15:56] <PE2BZ> daniel35 receiving, transmitting or both ?
[15:57] <daniel35> receiving, in 6 months transmitting (hopefully) as well.
[15:57] <PE2BZ> rtl-dongles match 75 ohm at the input. So there 75 ohm would match. We run the same 75 ohm satellite coax to all receivers on our radio Receiving sdr´s up to 15 meters
[15:58] <PE2BZ> Ok, what radio / antenna you (plan) to use ?
[15:59] <PE2BZ> as far as Daveake´s comment, you can also get 93 or 150 hm coax but that would be not useful. It has to match the impedance (ac resistance) of the transceiver and antenna as good as possible. For receiving the 1:1.5 as Mike described is 4 percent loss which is not noticable for normal setup. If you plan to moonbounce all things get a bit more critical
[16:01] Action: PE2BZ confirms that the 1.2 V reported by MAD-1a is not true ;-) the divider resistors are not connected yet....
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[17:27] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> PE2BZ: rx to A2 and tx to A3 ?
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[17:44] <PE2BZ> SA6BSS-Mike|2 confirmed (just wired the next one)
[17:55] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> thumbup
[18:07] <daniel35> PE2BZ, great answer. Thanks a lot. So I'm using a few antennas, mainly Diamond X50-N, Yagi ZL7-70, Watson Radar Extender 1090MHz, and a few small / cheap antennas.
[18:08] <PE2BZ> That´s all intended for 50 Ohm. What length would be the maximum between antenna and transceiver ?
[18:09] <daniel35> I usually buy from Moonraker and I never saw anything related to Ohms in the description of those antennas. That's why I'm quite confused. Having a few differet antennas, does it mean I should buy have a few cables to match the impedance of the transreceiver and antennas?
[18:10] <daniel35> Regarding length, usually 15-20 meters but I'm using LNA4ALL.
[18:10] <PE2BZ> LNA at top of near the receiver ?
[18:11] <PE2BZ> Most of the commercial sold VHF UHF SHF antenna´s are 50 ohm impedance. I came from RG-213 but now these days I prefer Highflex 7 for up to 500 MHz
[18:11] <PE2BZ> https://www.hamshop.nl/highflexx-7-coax-kabels.html?
[18:13] <PE2BZ> That gives about 2 dB loss at 15 - 20 meter on 435 MHz and less on lower frequencies.
[18:15] <PE2BZ> Now the question is, do you want to use antennas at the same moment on different radios ? Than you have to run multiple cables. You can run a remote antenna switch close to the antenna[ and run one cable down, but that gives very little flexibility (like weathersat, HAB balloon with LoRa and RTTy, and local repeater at the same time, then I would run each antenna with it´s own cable)
[18:17] <PE2BZ> I have a question to the ¨group¨ : For 50 bd, I notice a delay of 19800 in the software, vor 100 badu 9845, and for 200 baud 4865. Anyone who knows what´s the ¨translation factor¨ ? I would like to set for 300 bd and test, shorter transmissions means less power consumption.
[18:19] <daniel35> PE2BZ, LNA - 1m from the Antenna and 10-15 meters from FunCube Dongle Pro+ receiver. Not sure if that's best configuration btw.
[18:22] <PE2BZ> That´s OK. You amplify the signal as close as possible to the antenna, and can run ¨cheap¨ coax down. If you attacht the amplifier at the end of the cable you amplify signal AND noise
[18:25] <daniel35> Exactly. That's what I thought but a colleague of mine says the FunCube Dongle should be close to the Antenna as well - Connected to Rasp Pi - and from Rasp Pi I should have CAT6 to my Computer.
[18:27] <PE2BZ> You compensate that with the preamp. A funcube directly connected to a preamp does not make sense (in my humble opinion) because the FCD Pro+ has good filtering and LNA. I run one at 27 m ASL, 15 m Cellflex10 and Diamond X-5000 but with preamp everything gets messed up.
[18:33] <daniel35> Glad to hear that. Especially my antenna & LNA4ALL is outside on a roof, it's okay.... but I would rather keep my FunCube Dongle PRO+ inside a house because it's expensive...
[18:34] <Ian_> The logic of the FunCube dongle as near to the antenna as possible is to obviate cable losses/noise. That's why at microwave the rx is bolted to the back of the dish, because cable losses generally become more significant with increasing frequency.
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[18:37] <daniel35> Ian_, yes, that's exactly what my colleague told me - to avoid cable losses and noise.
[18:37] <daniel35> Ian_, Does 'the rx' mean the receiver (e.g. FunCUBE dongle)?
[18:38] <Ian_> Indeed RG213 is great at HF, not bad at VHF, but frankly loses the plot by the time it gets to UHF at 433MHz. All cable runs should be as short as practically possible.
[18:39] <Ian_> Yes rx = receiver, of whatever sort
[18:41] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> PE2BZ: quick mashup, stil needs some power in and antenna connection pads etc,
[18:41] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> https://imgur.com/a/SSxDOcx
[18:41] <PE2BZ> Ehhhh
[18:41] <PE2BZ> WoW !
[18:42] <daniel35> Ian_, I wasn't aware of it, thanks for clarification. So which cable should I use for with antennas? I'm mainly interested in HABs (RTTY, LORA), and some easy, I guess weather satellites...
[18:42] <SA6BSS-Mike|2> now needs to get the kids to bed...
[18:43] <PE2BZ> Story time, Dad !
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[19:07] <Ian_> I limit any use of RG58 to under 10m and in fact don't have any runs greater than that.
[19:10] <Ian_> Aircell 7 is good, but best you select for yourself. Google the cable type eg "RG213 spec" or "Aircell 7 spec" then compare the figures, remembering that connectors will introduce small losses and that a 3dB loss is half your signal.
[19:11] <Ian_> For rx, it's all a lot less critical than when transmitting, but the rules are pretty much exactly the same. You don't get to cook things with a rx mismatch :)
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[19:17] <Ian_> Here you go: https://www.pasternack.com/images/productpdf/rg213-u.pdf http://www.paratronic.fi/dokumentit/DB-Aircell7-UK-SF.pdf
[19:21] <Ian_> One other caveat for some of the cables, like the Westlake and Aircell range, where the manufacturer offers connectors buy them, because the centre conductor is perhaps slightly larger than what is considered a standard cable. I remember people necking down Westlake centre conductors to fit them into the back of the plug . . . not a good idea at all. These guys are using every trick in the book to improve their newer cables as th
[19:21] <daniel35> Ian_, yeap, I already Googled that, and that was my initial choice: 1) RG213 (50 Ohm), 2) Westflex 103 (50 Ohm), 3) RG6 (75 Ohm). ;) I just google Aircell 7 as you suggested, Impedance seems to be 50 Ohm. Is there anything else I should check? e.g. Impedance... ( whatever that is. :))) )
[19:21] <russss> my personal preference for RF cable is "as little as possible"
[19:21] <Ian_> the ratio of the circumference of the inner conductor v the circumference of the inside of the screen.
[19:22] <Ian_> +1 russs
[19:23] <russss> daniel35: 75 ohm is the standard used for cable TV as well as stuff like coax video etc, whereas 50 ohm is generally used for amateur and broadcast.
[19:23] <Ian_> daniel35 the loss figures are what is the decider and how much you are willing to pay, but you may only stick up a decent antenna once in several years, so it's a bit of a no brainer
[19:24] <russss> the characteristics of feedlines vary with impedance and IIRC 75 ohm has less voltage drop but 50 ohm has better power handling, which is why there are two major standards
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[19:25] <Ian_> The history is that 50 ohm is the 'nominal' (get out of jail card) characteristic impedance of a 1/4 wave vertical, whereas 75 ohm is the characteristic impedance of a 1/2 wave dipole. Both types being the basis of most antennas that you are likely to use. Mileage varies somewhat of course.
[19:26] <Ian_> See, russs and I are looking from different viewpoints. And there are probably a lot more too.
[19:28] <Ian_> Back in the 1950's HF amateur antennas were often connected with twisted fabric covered mains flexible cable . . . we've come a long way since then.
[19:28] <russss> I managed to dig up the article I read about this - which seems to indicate that it was thought through on the basis of loss/power handling https://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedias/why-fifty-ohms
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[19:44] <Ian_> brain hurting here now russs . . . I've bookmarked the site as it seems to be a cornucopia of gen
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[00:00] --- Mon Jan 21 2019