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[07:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CALLSIGN123_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CALLSIGN123_chase
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[09:40] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SITS-6 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SITS-6
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[10:21] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BUZZ after 0313 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BUZZ
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[11:16] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03test_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=test_chase
[11:20] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03OO5 after 033 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=OO5
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[12:44] <Heppie_2E0VTO> I have some more newbie questions, sorry. I knows SITS don't publicise their launches and frequencies but I have noticed that there is a homebase that has managed to track today's launch. Would that be a case of the owner scanning the band's manually or is there a way to make tracking autonomous?
[12:53] <craag> The owner scanning manually Heppie_2E0VTO
[12:53] <craag> with an SDR you can watch the whole band on a waterfall and see signals pop up
[12:54] <bertrik> some of the telemetry transmitters (and a cheap SDR like an rtl-sdr too) suffer from frequency drift so a receiver may have to manually correct for that
[12:58] <chris_99> I don't know anything about antennas , i'm wondering would a collinear one, possible offer among the best 'gain' for an omni-directional antenna? (i'm considering getting an antenna to leave in our attic attached to an sdr)
[12:59] <bertrik> I think so
[13:00] <bertrik> it has gain towards the horizon but not in any particular compass direction so you don't have to orient it
[13:01] <russss> bear in mind that the gain of an omni antenna comes from restricting the radiation pattern going up and down (in the direction of the antenna axis). If you're trying to listen to a balloon at a high elevation then a high-gain omni will restrict that
[13:02] <chris_99> ah interesting, i didn't realise that
[13:02] <chris_99> do you still use a colinear antenna or..?
[13:02] <dbrooke> I was just typing more or less what russss said and have experienced it with my colinear
[13:03] <chris_99> is there something more suitable for balloons then?
[13:03] <craag> If most balloons stay near your horizon (like from the south coast), then a low-gain colinear is still a good bet.
[13:03] <dbrooke> it's somewhat compensated by high elevations being a result of the balloon being closer
[13:04] <russss> the gain of an antenna is just a representation of its directionality, so a 0dB (technically dBi) antenna should be perfectly omnidirectional in all axes
[13:04] <craag> If you're located like dbrooke nearer the launchsite, then a simple 1/4 wave on a groundplane like used on the balloon can work well!
[13:06] <dbrooke> it's always going to be a compromise really
[13:06] <chris_99> would https://www.hamradio.co.uk/aerials-antenna-manufacturers-diamond-antennas/diamond/diamond-x-30n-pd-2602.php be unsuitable? (that seems to say 5.5dB @ 430MHz)
[13:07] <dbrooke> I need another antenna pole so I can put up a ground plane as well as the colinear, I only have 3 poles on the house at the moment 8-)
[13:08] <russss> 5.5dB is going to be quite a horizontal radiation pattern
[13:08] <russss> https://www.diamondantenna.net/x30arad.html
[13:08] <Viproz> dbrooke, how do you switch from one to the other, you just do it manually ?
[13:10] <dbrooke> Viproz: at the moment the antennas I have are mostly dedicated to specific receivers, I'd just run another SDR at the same time
[13:12] <dbrooke> the exception being that the 430MHz path from the colinear defaults to weather sonde auto rx but gets switched by a relay if I start up dl-fldigi for HAB use
[13:14] <dbrooke> so I can switch to track HABs via a VNC connection (which also works remotely)
[13:17] <chris_99> dbrooke: what colinear and other antennas do you use out of interest?
[13:20] <Viproz> When you guys say HAB it means that it is ham high altitude balloon and not a weather balloon ? I've seen it around quite a bit but I'm not sure I get how it's used
[13:20] <dbrooke> the one I currently use for HAB reception is a Moonraker SQBM500N but it has a bit too much gain as I mentioned https://www.moonraker.eu/sqbm500n-mkii-dual-band-2-70-vertical-super-gainer-ntype
[13:21] <russss> that is quite a lot of gain
[13:22] <Heppie_2E0VTO> Wow that is a lot of gain
[13:22] <dbrooke> Viproz: I tend to use HAB to mean amateur since that's what I started receiving, for me weather sondes is something newer
[13:23] <dbrooke> I bought it for terrestrial use before I discovered HABs
[13:23] <russss> ham products insist on using dBd... that's like 11.5dBi at 70cm
[13:24] <Heppie_2E0VTO> I guess a antenna with around 6 to 7 dB is a good compromise
[13:24] <chris_99> cheers dbrooke , so 5.5 may be ok then?
[13:24] <chris_99> ala the diamond one i mentioned
[13:24] <russss> chris_99: you can always use a preamp/filter/etc for more gain. The Diamond antennas are generally well regarded and decent all-round antennas.
[13:25] <Viproz> Heppie_2E0VTO, it really depends, I have a GP antenna at home (so quite a low gain) and it's still annoying because I need to turn it when a RS it too close to me at 20km altitude
[13:25] <dbrooke> it does work well at low elevation, it's flat around here and I often receive down to a few 100m at tens of km range, but there are noticeable nulls at some higher elevations
[13:26] <Heppie_2E0VTO> craag: I am right in saying your are in Southampton?
[13:26] <russss> I reckon it should be illegal to sell an antenna without clearly provided radiation pattern and return loss plots
[13:27] <craag> Heppie_2E0VTO: Yes
[13:27] <russss> when I am dictator...
[13:27] Action: dbrooke votes for russss 8-)
[13:27] <craag> I'd second that russss
[13:27] <craag> not that you'd need it when you're dictator..
[13:28] <Heppie_2E0VTO> craag: from your experience tracking around here what launch areas do you normally pickup?
[13:28] <chris_99> gotcha cheers russss
[13:29] <craag> I'll pick up the stuff from cambridge when it's above 20km or so, slightly better for the launches from oxford when they happen
[13:29] <craag> unfortunately there aren't many down around here
[13:29] <russss> chris_99: also it's not hard to bodge together a ground plane antenna by soldering some bits of wire to a connector.
[13:29] <craag> soton uni used to do a few (when I was there), they're planning one I think this summer.
[13:30] <craag> fron new forest
[13:30] <Heppie_2E0VTO> So they'll be roughly 5-6 Deg elevation I guess
[13:30] <craag> yeah
[13:31] <Heppie_2E0VTO> Will have to look at some plots for gain at that elevation
[13:32] <craag> I use a small colinear, chinese copy of x-30 kind of thing, that works reasonably well.
[13:32] <craag> from the qth.
[13:32] <dbrooke> chris_99: if it's going to be in a loft and won't need weather protection then I'd just knock together a ground plane on a connector and try it out
[13:33] <chris_99> dbrooke: yeah the loft has a window, was thinking of putting it by that, which should be ok i assume?
[13:33] <chris_99> rather than on the roof
[13:33] <chris_99> itself
[13:34] <dbrooke> higher and in the clear is always better but you've nothing much to lose by trying it
[13:34] <Viproz> Maybe not too close to the window if it has a metal frame and depending on the stud pattern some areas might be better than other if you keep it inside
[13:35] <Viproz> (just move it around when you hear something, you'll see how it changes)
[13:35] <dbrooke> this is one I made for some 868MHz tests https://album.dbrooke.me.uk/ukhasnet/tn/P1010855.JPG.html
[13:35] <Heppie_2E0VTO> craag: thanks for the help. I'll probably get something mobile with similar specs. I rent so qth antennas are difficult
[13:36] <craag> Heppie_2E0VTO: Also renting here, but lucky to have access to a piece of flat roof through a small upstairs window ;)
[13:36] <dbrooke> a mag mount mobile antenna on a biscuit tin lid or similar is also a possibility for in a loft
[13:37] <craag> Heppie_2E0VTO: If you can point it, using a small yagi is ideal. THe main problem I have is the colinear being omnidirectional and picking up *every* wireless temperature sensor on the same frequency.
[13:37] <chris_99> dbrooke: cool that antenna looks interesting
[13:37] <dbrooke> it's just an N connector in a bit of aluminium angle
[13:38] <dbrooke> ideally the ground plane elements should be bent downwards
[13:38] <russss> I made one by just soldering some coathanger wire to a connector and taping it to a bit of plastic pole
[13:38] <russss> it was surprisingly effective actually
[13:38] <Heppie_2E0VTO> craag: planning on building a tape measure or coat hanger Yagi soon.
[13:39] <craag> :)
[13:39] <dbrooke> those elements are from an offcut of 2.5mm^2 T&E mains cable
[13:40] <Heppie_2E0VTO> Just need to weigh up how many elements / beam width would work best
[13:40] <russss> yeah iirc if the ground plane elements are horizontal then you end up with an impedance mismatch, though it likely barely matters for reception
[13:40] <dbrooke> Heppie_2E0VTO: don't use a plastic coathanger, they're really hard to solder 8-)
[13:41] <Heppie_2E0VTO> dbrooke: noted :p
[13:41] <chris_99> haha
[13:41] <dbrooke> found a better picture https://album.dbrooke.me.uk/868MHz/tn/P1010651.JPG.html
[13:42] <russss> oh crimp connectors, very fancy
[13:42] <dbrooke> stuff I had lying around really
[13:43] <chris_99> so the four red antennas aren't actually electrically connected to the middle one?
[13:43] <russss> chris_99: they're connected to ground/shield
[13:43] <chris_99> ah
[13:43] <russss> or the body of the connector
[13:44] <bertrik> they act as a kind of ground so the middle element looks twice as long
[13:48] <Viproz> https://imgur.com/a/swTQ7ro if you have a 3D printer
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[14:25] <michal_f_wrk> or if you don't https://imgur.com/a/3CXzgcp
[14:25] <michal_f_wrk> (TL;DR so this might be out of context ;)
[14:26] <chris_99> what do the 4 wires do though, are they reflecting RF somehow to the main antenna?
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[14:28] <michal_f_wrk> If I understand it OK, they help radiating RF out. Without them, more RF would reflect back to TX'er
[14:29] <russss> chris_99: antenna design is witchcraft
[14:29] <michal_f_wrk> or dissipate as heat instead of rf waves
[14:30] <russss> but as bertrik implied - it's *kind of* like you've taken a dipole and bent one of the poles a bit, which changes the radiation pattern
[14:31] <bertrik> the idea of a groundplane antenna is that the groundplane forces the voltage at the ground plane at 0V, so a wire above a ground plane is equivalent to a wire PLUS a mirrored wire radiating with an opposite voltage
[14:31] <bertrik> so it makes your wire appear twice as long
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[14:32] <russss> tbh the simple answer is "that's just how it works" and the complex answer gets very complex quite quickly.
[14:33] <bertrik> so a 1/4 wave + groundplane act as a 1/2 wave with resonates at 1/1 wave
[14:33] <bertrik> yes
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[14:54] <PE2BZ> Good afternoon all. Is APRS in UK used on 70 cm ?
[14:57] <OZ1SKY_Brian> PE2BZ afternoon
[14:58] <PE2BZ> Hi Brian !
[15:05] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP5YAM-rs41 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP5YAM-rs41
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[15:30] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03AVA-rs41 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AVA-rs41
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[18:33] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CHANGEME - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CHANGEME
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[19:26] <daveake> Payload CHANGEME, listener ID "NULL". Someone making a real effort :)
[19:27] <chris_99> heh
[19:30] <PE2BZ> rename the default payload to ¨IMADICK¨ :-)
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[19:59] <adamgreig> maybe we should just have habitat reject CHANGEME
[19:59] <adamgreig> though really i think your softwrae should not start up / not transmit telem until changed
[19:59] <adamgreig> it could just rtty "SEE WEBSITE FOR CONFIGURATION DETAILS" or something
[19:59] <adamgreig> and yes i'm sure that still wouldn't prevent someone flying that
[19:59] <adamgreig> mac address as callsign maybe idk
[19:59] <adamgreig> we've been through this
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[20:17] <Hoshen_4Z7HKA> Hi everyone today I tried radiosonde auto_rx program and it worked perfectly. except the scanning. it just didn't find the frequency. I had to locate it with the SDR,and then write it to the list to scan. and then it started decoding and uploading to the aprs.is and habhub. so i haven't changed the scan settings,maybe someone here has recommended ones? what to do with the scanning?
[20:18] <Hoshen_4Z7HKA> by the way, does the frequency of the sondes change all the time? in my country, they are using rs41 and there is only one launch site, one day it was 403 the other 401.75 and 402.72...
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[21:29] <Viproz> Hoshen_4Z7HKA, still here ?
[21:29] <Hoshen_4Z7HKA> Yes
[21:30] <Viproz> Did you take a screenshot of the webpage when it was scanning and wasn't detecting the RS ?
[21:32] <Hoshen_4Z7HKA> No,but in 2 hour they are launching another one,so i will take one,by the way i have the gain set to agc ,is it ok?
[21:34] <Viproz> I would suggest changing it to something like 40, this way you'll have something repeatable, I don't know the optimal value and it probably depends on your setup
[21:35] <Viproz> https://i.imgur.com/7Epqlii.png In here you can see what to look for on the webpage, I've changed my frequency range up to 406 since it's the limit in europe but you don't need to if they only go between 400 and 403
[21:37] <Viproz> What I labelled as the SR line is the signal to noise to try to detect it, by default it is set to 10, for me this is way too high in my setup, I can decode RS that are below this line if I force the frequency so I've changed it to 5 but as you can see I have a lot of noise (I'm in a noisy area rn) so I'm detecting a lot of high peaks so to try them all I had to use a higher value for the number of frequencies to detect, this makes the scanning
[21:37] <Viproz> slower but it makes it work
[21:39] <Viproz> You can already try to adjust the value but when there is a RS that is on the verge of being decodable you should make sure that the signal of the RS gets above your SR line
[21:43] <Hoshen_4Z7HKA> ah ok. i will try it. https://imgur.com/a/GVxKV7N this is the spectrum now, Do you think it's too noisy?
[21:46] <Viproz> # Increase this if you have lots of spurious signals, though this will increase scan times.
[21:46] <Viproz> max_peaks = 10
[21:47] <Viproz> I think you still could change this to something like 15 or 20 just to be sure that if you lower your snr_threshold even further it doesn't get too many peaks and discards the one you're interested in
[21:51] <Hoshen_4Z7HKA> i'll try it. thank you
[21:55] <Viproz> Do they still send IMet-1 RS in Israel ?
[21:56] <Hoshen_4Z7HKA> yes... one station was sending rs92 but recently they switched to the rs41. the other station is still using the old imet-1 sonde.
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[22:08] <Viproz> It seems like IMets are almost implemented in the rs1729 project, it's kind of decoding it !
[22:11] <happysat> Beauvechain uses old and newer i-met 4 they decode okay with RS
[22:20] <Viproz> hum, it still uses the sign change detection even though the samples per bit is really high, it must be very sensible to noise
[22:23] <happysat> yes very the signal must be strong
[22:26] <Viproz> Well if someone wants to give it a shot, the method I made for M10s in probably good for this one too, detect the start of the frame and then say the bits are of x length so average them out and determine if it's a 1 or a 0, my implementation here https://github.com/Viproz/radiosonde_auto_rx/blob/master/m10/M10Decoder.cpp#L53 (with a twist, with the M10 two bits become one)
[22:28] <Viproz> I'm going to try and forbit myself to work on it before my exams but if someone gets me audio sample I can probably do it in the middle of January when I'm free :D
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[22:46] <happysat> sadly i cannot recieve M10[ overhere :(
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[23:13] <Viproz> M10s or IMets ?
[23:15] <Viproz> Because M10s are already done, it's decoding them better than SondeMonitor now, there is one more thing dxl implemented after we talked about it that I might try to do but otherwise it's done
[23:25] <happysat> yes M10 i cannot recieve but good job supporting them better ;)
[23:27] <Viproz> haha no worries, I had a lot of fun improving on RS work :)
[23:33] <Hoshen_4Z7HKA> Scanner #0 - Detected peaks on 1 frequencies (MHz): [ 402.75]
[23:34] <Hoshen_4Z7HKA> it detects it,but it doesn't start decoding
[23:35] <Viproz> Can you decode it right now or is it just starting to receive it ?
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[23:47] <Viproz> Hoshen_4Z7HKA, I'm off for today, if it still doesn't work when the signal is strong and auto rx is trying the right frequency please record some of the audio or even IQ so we'll be able to verify that the detect program works as intended
[23:48] <happysat> this one did seem to work https://radiosondy.info/sonde_archive.php?sondenumber=N3540383
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[00:00] --- Sat Jan 5 2019