highaltitude.log.20181130

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[01:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03N4XWC-2 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N4XWC-2
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[01:32] <Brian_KJ4TDM> hello world!
[01:32] <N4XWC> Hey Brian.....that one at 402 is stuck
[01:32] <N4XWC> I'm monitoring 401
[01:32] <Brian_KJ4TDM> the signal at 404 keeps jumping around big time, kinda funny!
[01:33] <N4XWC> Is that a balloon at 404?
[01:33] <Brian_KJ4TDM> RIP 402
[01:34] <N4XWC> Hehe..yeah.
[01:36] <Brian_KJ4TDM> every 6 hours, so 12am next round
[01:37] <N4XWC> I'll be zzzzz by then!
[01:38] <Brian_KJ4TDM> me to
[01:41] <Brian_KJ4TDM> i dont see anything at 404?
[01:41] <Brian_KJ4TDM> nevermide, i was off
[01:42] <Brian_KJ4TDM> THERES NOTHING LEFT FOR ME TO TRACK! :(
[01:43] <N4XWC> Sad! Maybe tomorrow and Saturday
[01:44] <Brian_KJ4TDM> 401 is strongest to the south
[01:44] <N4XWC> Sondemonitor shows wind speed and rate of climb for this one
[01:44] <N4XWC> Yeah...it's kinda SE,,,,south of Macon, GA>
[01:45] <Brian_KJ4TDM> i recorded that one for later signal id
[01:48] <N4XWC> Good eye-deer....I did too.
[01:49] <Brian_KJ4TDM> so 401 is a DFM06?
[01:51] <Brian_KJ4TDM> what was that other one and what frequ is it on?
[01:51] <N4XWC> yep...which other one? the stuck one?
[01:52] <Brian_KJ4TDM> no the the one u decoded in the parking lot? the beep one
[01:52] <N4XWC> I don't remember the freq, but it was DFM06 one too...might be same one...don't remember
[01:54] <Brian_KJ4TDM> ok for some reason 15 is coming to mind
[02:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03U3B-22 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=U3B-22
[02:01] <Brian_KJ4TDM> what model are the I-met ones?
[02:02] <N4XWC> I dunno.....Sondemonitor just shows IMET
[02:03] <Brian_KJ4TDM> i suess i could walk outside and look at one
[02:03] <N4XWC> hang on
[02:04] <N4XWC> Sez "iMet-1" on the Sonde
[02:04] <Brian_KJ4TDM> k
[02:07] <N4XWC> You ever tried to receive any of those on 1674Mhz (or whatever) from Shelby County Airport?
[02:07] <Brian_KJ4TDM> no
[02:08] <N4XWC> I have tried, even with this new dongle I have that is supposed to go to 1.7Ghz....but not a peep
[02:08] <N4XWC> they launch at 0600 and 1800 local now
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[02:14] <Brian_KJ4TDM> right
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[02:28] <Brian_KJ4TDM> you still in here shane?
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[02:33] <N4XWC> I am still here
[02:35] <N4XWC> I'm outta here......Nite!
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[02:44] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03N0CALL_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N0CALL_chase
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[05:32] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK5NE_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VK5NE_chase
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[07:36] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SITS-5 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SITS-5
[07:55] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KF4ZTI - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KF4ZTI
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[09:58] <arjunnaha> How well would this work from a moving vehicle? http://www.rfhamdesign.com/products/spx-light-antenna-rotator/spx-01-az--el/index.php
[09:59] <russss> probably not fast enough
[10:00] <arjunnaha> Ah okay. I'm exploring the idea I discussed with you a while ago, trying to get some form of live video
[10:00] <chris_99> i guess you're not in the UK?
[10:00] <arjunnaha> I am in the UK
[10:00] <arjunnaha> I've reached out to Ofcom, to see if there is a remote possibility we might be able to get a license for an increase in power on 2.4ghz
[10:00] <chris_99> oh interesting
[10:01] <Darkside> good luck..
[10:01] <Darkside> others have tried to get NoVs for airborne operation
[10:01] <Darkside> and have all been turned down
[10:01] <arjunnaha> thanks! looking expensive already
[10:01] <chris_99> NoV?
[10:01] <arjunnaha> oh dear
[10:01] <Darkside> notice of variation
[10:01] <chris_99> ah
[10:02] <daveake> More likely to get a No than NoV
[10:03] <Darkside> heh
[10:03] <Darkside> i think you're pretty much out of luck doing it in the UK
[10:03] <chris_99> you could use a satelite though?
[10:03] <Darkside> the link budget is against you
[10:03] <arjunnaha> I was running them earlier, and it didn't look good
[10:04] <Darkside> i want to do live video too, but ill probably be running low bitrate DVB-S on the 70cm band
[10:04] <Darkside> and using a few watts of TX power
[10:05] <Darkside> <-- Australian
[10:05] <arjunnaha> such a shame we can't use ameteur band airborne here
[10:09] <chris_99> awh i was just looking is there a reason sat phones have such a small bandwidth? compared to say the 'dish' services offered by sat isps
[10:10] <arjunnaha> And really, really expensive as well
[10:10] <russss> chris_99: it's mostly because they don't have a dish
[10:10] <russss> comes back to link budget again
[10:11] <chris_99> gotcha. So dumb question, why does the dish affect the bandwidth you can tx/rx?
[10:11] <russss> the more bandwidth you want, the more gain you need
[10:12] <chris_99> oh i don't think i knew that, is there a formula wrt that
[10:12] <russss> so something with an omnidirectional antenna is not going to get the same amount of bandwidth as something with a dish
[10:12] <chris_99> gotcha
[10:13] <Darkside> chris_99: it comes down to SNR required for a given bit-error rate
[10:14] <chris_99> aha
[10:14] <Darkside> acheiving a given SNR with a transmitter of a given power will require a particular antenna gain
[10:14] <Darkside> this is link budget 101
[10:15] <russss> wider bandwidth spreads your power out across more of the spectrum, which means you need more gain for the same SNR
[10:19] <chris_99> oh that makes sense, i never thought about that
[10:20] <arjunnaha> Is this just way too high a frequency to work over distance? https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/rOhdVd8d/image.png
[10:24] <Darkside> hell yes
[10:25] <Darkside> path loss at those frequencies is massive
[10:25] <dbrooke> the off the shelf 60GHz wifi links (admittedlay at higher bandwidth than you need) go about 200m without a dish, maybe 1.5km with dish each end
[10:26] <arjunnaha> oof, that shut that down pretty quickly
[10:27] <chris_99> wow, just because of absorption of atmospheric water?
[10:28] <dbrooke> oxygen absorption at 60GHz
[10:28] <chris_99> oh interesting!
[10:28] <dbrooke> about 12dB/km
[10:29] <day> but the attenuation isn't necessarily higher at higher frequencies right? there are some peaks but overall it is flat?
[10:33] <dbrooke> overall still rising but the peaks are quite significant
[10:34] <russss> also you're looking at it being exceedingly directional at that frequency
[10:34] <russss> might as well use a laser
[10:34] <chris_99> targetting a laser sounds fun heh
[10:37] <russss> also 13dBm/MHz EIRP is not a stunningly high power limit.
[10:37] <arjunnaha> Sorry, just going through IR2030! How strict are the interpretations of the Application? https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/llbT6bsF/image.png
[10:38] <day> dbrooke: makes me wonder if electromagnetism would qualify as a pepetuum mobile. It doesnt generate energy, but it travels indefinitely in a vacuum.
[10:39] <russss> arjunnaha: it will have to meet the requirements in EN302 208
[10:39] <arjunnaha> Ah, cheers for clarifying!
[10:48] <russss> in theory at least. (Is there any RFID equipment which uses those frequencies, I wonder?)
[10:49] <russss> hardly seems like RFID with those specs, I guess it's for very far-field "RFID"
[10:51] <arjunnaha> I was browsing though https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_en/302200_302299/302208/03.01.00_20/en_302208v030100a.pdf
[10:51] <arjunnaha> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/JsTDeeKe/image.png
[10:51] <arjunnaha> Looks like there is limit of sorts
[10:51] <russss> that's a pretty generous duty cycle limit though
[10:52] <russss> this, less so. "For the lower band the radiated power of the tag shall not exceed -20 dBm e.r.p. which is equivalent to a power spectrum density of -25 dBm/100 kHz e.r.p. "
[10:52] <arjunnaha> 97.5% oh yeah
[10:52] <russss> so that's actually your limiting factor
[10:54] <arjunnaha> I figured out the two limits! https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/yTX4iHeC/image.png
[10:54] <arjunnaha> One is the tag
[10:54] <arjunnaha> This is the transmitter https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/mXRSfLYq/image.png
[10:54] <russss> unless you classify the balloon as the "interrogator", heh, but that's probably pushing it
[10:55] <arjunnaha> Actually, for the actual erp https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/w5o8phUX/image.png
[10:55] <arjunnaha> Yeah, something that reads tags
[10:55] <russss> clearly that high power limit for the interrogator is designed for self-powered tags
[10:55] <russss> er, remotely-powered tags
[10:55] <russss> but if you had a self-powered tag then that would probably net you a few 10s of metres of range
[10:56] <arjunnaha> unlock your hotel room, from, outside the hotel
[10:56] <russss> but in that case you could just use the non-specific exemption
[10:57] <arjunnaha> non-specific exemption?
[10:57] <russss> IR2030/1/14 i.e. the "normal" rules for that band
[10:58] <arjunnaha> 25mW for IR2030/1/14
[10:58] <arjunnaha> Therein lies the problem
[10:59] <russss> yeah but -20dBm is 0.01mW
[11:06] <russss> and there is IR2030/1/19 which provides 500mW ERP
[11:07] <arjunnaha> I think that's what the 868 LoRa is under?
[11:07] <arjunnaha> Oops, not 868
[11:07] <russss> that might be IR2030/1/46.
[11:07] <Darkside> with higher power often comes limitations on duty cycle too
[11:08] <arjunnaha> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/1GVxuohm/image.png
[11:08] <arjunnaha> 10% from the looks
[11:08] <russss> well IR2030/1/19 has no duty cycle limitation if you perform interference mitigation, but in practice that might be difficult to do on a balloon, so you're probably limited to 10%.
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[11:37] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
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[14:29] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DenstoneL - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DenstoneL
[14:32] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DenstoneR - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DenstoneR
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[15:09] <nmcc> What is the filter parameters for https://ssdv.habhub.org - I can't see any current flights with the button so if anyone's got it in a bookmark, the format would be much appreciated
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[15:26] <nmcc> Some random Googling to find links and it's the payload name after the slash - but in capitals and abbreviated to the first 6 characters.
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[18:24] <chris_99> https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/father-reindeer-2018-odyssey-space-video-a8659931.html space!!!!!!!11
[18:26] <chris_99> video does look cool
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[21:45] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03U3B-24 after 039 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=U3B-24
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[23:00] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03U3B-22 after 039 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=U3B-22
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[23:07] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
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[00:00] --- Sat Dec 1 2018