highaltitude.log.20181109

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[03:45] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SSTAR0268 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SSTAR0268
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[08:16] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BSS18 after 0317 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BSS18
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[11:07] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
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[11:21] <imroML> Hi
[11:23] <imroML> Would it be helpful for you all if I add a component for a real-time prediction of landing location of launched HABs?
[11:32] <mfa298> doesn't the tracker (https://tracker.habhub.org/) already do that ?
[11:32] <mfa298> and has done for some time!
[11:34] <imroML> I believe the tracker shows us the current position of a balloon. Right?
[11:35] <chris_99> and predictions too
[11:36] <mfa298> current position, path, predicted path and predicted landing spot for balloons currently in flight
[11:36] <chris_99> http://predict.habhub.org
[11:36] <chris_99> oh you meant realtime though? i dunno if it does that?
[11:36] <imroML> yeap, I mean real-time. ;
[11:36] <imroML> ;)
[11:37] <mfa298> quick screenshot from the tracker https://imgur.com/a/oxlwTDU
[11:37] <imroML> quite often I see a ballon landing nearby"
[11:37] <imroML> a predicted place...
[11:38] <mfa298> balloon in the middle, it's path on the left (red line), predicted path on the right (more opaque red line) and predicted landing on the right (the target icon)
[11:38] <imroML> so i thought it might be good to kind of optimize the prediction based on a data points received from a balloon *real-time*
[11:38] <mfa298> that updates based on the last few positions of the balloon.
[11:38] <imroML> oh got it
[11:39] <imroML> ok
[11:39] <imroML> so i guess it's simillar or the same
[11:40] <imroML> I thought the prediction path of a hab is static, not dynamically updated.
[11:40] <mfa298> if you watch a flight (particularly one with regular updates) you'll see the prediction move.
[11:41] <mfa298> for an arps based balloon then the updates can be several minutes apart so the prediction moving might not be so obvious
[11:41] <chris_99> does the predictor factor in winds?
[11:42] <craag> chris_99: yes it uses the latest noaa global forecast wind model, downloaded every 6 hours
[11:42] <chris_99> fancy!
[11:42] <imroML> i had the same idea however
[11:42] <mfa298> There are two assumptions the predicor makes: firstly that all ground is 0m asl, second that the winds are as the predictions. Local winds just above the ground might vary - but until there's a balloon in that space you can't really predict them.
[11:43] <chris_99> out of interest does that model give wind 'vectors' at different altitudes somehow? (i've never looked at how the forecast sutuff works before)
[11:43] <imroML> I was thinking that it might be useful to include current data points from a ballon e.g. temperature, pressure etc.
[11:43] <craag> chris_99: yes it's a 3d array of vectors
[11:43] <chris_99> cool
[11:43] <imroML> that case we would or might know about differences due to a potential issues with a balloon
[11:44] <chris_99> i imagine the physics to use that model is pretty complex then, to deduce the prediction where it will land from that?
[11:44] <craag> chris_99: https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/data-access/model-data/model-datasets/global-forcast-system-gfs
[11:44] <chris_99> thanks
[11:44] <craag> also: https://github.com/cuspaceflight/cusf-landing-prediction/
[11:45] <craag> ^^ this is the code that the tracker runs
[11:45] <craag> with a more direct interface at http://predict.habhub.org/
[11:46] <chris_99> ta
[11:48] <edmoore> chris_99: in brief, the physics model to produce the weather forecast is hugely complex
[11:48] <imroML> off-topic question, https://screenshots.firefox.com/ywj2YDPoVrI2iklr/tracker.habhub.org <--- there's only 1 green indicator line connected to a ballon. Does it mean there's only 1 antenna receiving data from the transmitter?
[11:48] <edmoore> the model that integrates the weather forecast into the balloon flight prediction is extremely simple
[11:48] <chris_99> oh i'm suprised, i thought it'd be very difficult
[11:48] <chris_99> to do the prediction
[11:48] <edmoore> not at all
[11:48] <edmoore> super easy
[11:48] <mfa298> if you watched IV3SRD-11 currenty on the tracker you'll see the baloon position update fairly regularly and the predicted landing spot move. Normally for a balloon in ascent there should be a burst prediction as well but that seems to be several baloons on the same callsign so the predictor is probably a bit confused
[11:49] <edmoore> you assume it goes at the wind speed the whole time, and you tell it the ascent rate, e.g. 5m/s
[11:49] <russss> the GRIB files are just arrays of "the wind is moving this fast at this altitude"
[11:49] <imroML> Hi edmoore, I agree. Shouldn't be super complex.
[11:50] <russss> so you integrate over that numerically based on the ascent rate
[11:50] <edmoore> so you say 'i am at x degrees north, y degrees west, time t, what is the wind speed here according to this big file i've downloaded?'
[11:50] <edmoore> and it tells you it's, i dunno, 10m/s due north
[11:50] <chris_99> ah interesting thanks, that makes sense!
[11:50] <edmoore> and so you say ok cool, 1 second later i am now 10m north of where i was before, 5m highter, 1 second later, ok now what are the winds according to the big forecase file we downloaded
[11:50] <edmoore> and it tells you
[11:51] <edmoore> and so you just step through until you hit some condition, like your altitude is now higher than the burst alttitude you told the predictor
[11:51] <mfa298> imroML: one receiver for that last data packet, although that's also based on when things refresh (so some receivers might not always show up if they're slower uploading what they've received)
[11:51] <chris_99> the wind can only really affect the balloons horizontal position right?
[11:51] <edmoore> and then it carries on with the same logic, just the predictor knows that you're going down and the speed under your parachute depends on the altitude
[11:52] <chris_99> or can it blow it up alot too?
[11:52] <edmoore> chris_99: yes according to the predictor, in reality there are things like shear layers higher up in the atmosphere where there'll be up-down components of wind
[11:52] <mfa298> imroML: also your screenshot also shows the predicted burst point (just above Kinglake national park) although that's based on a hard coded burst altitude which might not be totally accurate for that payload.
[11:52] <edmoore> but the effect is usually small and ignorable
[11:52] <chris_99> edmoore: ooh interesting
[11:53] <russss> in reality it's vastly complex but the simple approach works pretty well
[11:53] <edmoore> yes
[11:53] <chris_99> gotcha, nice
[11:53] <edmoore> it's really surprisingly effective for such a simple model
[11:53] <russss> you could also consider icing/precipitation/etc
[11:53] <russss> if you were so inclined
[11:54] <imroML> mfa298, thanks a lot! i'm observing that balloon since 30min and it show only 1 antenna, so I'm guessing there was only one receiver in the last 30min OR habhub doesn't display all of the receivers (maybe the strongest one or smth like that?). what do you think?
[11:55] <edmoore> chris_99: and there are other effects you could try and model but we don't (because they're hard to predict), like the fact that parachutes don't really just fall perfectly vertically (within a block of moving air), they actually can glide a bit
[11:55] <edmoore> which affects your horizontal speed, obviously
[11:55] <chris_99> is the assumption of a constant ascent always held out of interest, like i'm wondering as you get higher, and the balloon is expanding that may change?
[11:56] <chris_99> ah interesting wrt parachutes
[11:56] <edmoore> chris_99: it's surprsingly good to assume constant vel
[11:56] <chris_99> cool
[11:57] <edmoore> all the effects roughly cancel out to keep the speed constant - the lift stays the same but the air gets thinner so there shoudl be less drag but of course the balloon expands to increase the area, and so the drag, etc, and temp plays an effect too. but to within a couple of percent, saying the ascent rate is constant is good enough
[11:57] <chris_99> gotcha
[11:57] <imroML> mfa298, re shows the predicted burst point ---- is that a burst icon? https://screenshots.firefox.com/QNA36juCgUw1jWdn/tracker.habhub.org
[11:58] <mfa298> imroML: in that case it's probably only a single receiver, particularly as there's only one receiver shown on the map within range (although old receivers might have timed out)
[11:58] <dbrooke> imroML: that balloon is using APRS and the APRS-IS network from which the tracker gets its feed filters duplicate positions so only the first report will be logged
[11:59] <mfa298> dbrooke: I think he's flowing a RS_ payload rather than the APRS one I mentioned.
[11:59] <dbrooke> oh, in that case what I said doesn't apply
[12:01] <mfa298> imroML: that's the predicted burst icon - although I think it defaults to 30km or 35km which might not be right for the RS_ payloads (it sometimes gets manually set when people know the predicted burst for whatever they're launching)
[12:02] <imroML> mfa298, what's the difference between !RS_*; and !IRS_*; ? And are there any other filter parameters? That's what I mean: https://screenshots.firefox.com/uMcOvURH0gkqgL3I/tracker.habhub.org
[12:03] <mfa298> I've never seen !IRS,
[12:04] <mfa298> ! means not, * matches anything so: !RS_* is everything not starting with RS_ (i.e. not the many baloons launched by the various met offices around the world)
[12:06] <mfa298> the ; is a seperator between different filters
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[12:23] <imroML> mfa298, ok, got it. Thx.
[12:24] <imroML> dbrooke, what's APRS and the APRS-IS network?
[12:29] <dbrooke> it's the amateur radio based system http://aprs.org/
[12:30] <dbrooke> the UKHAS tracker takes a feed of balloon positions from its internet connection system APRS-IS
[12:34] <imroML> mfa298, ok, so I believe I should ask: what's the meaning of RS_? :) And are there any other important parameters/prefixes?
[12:36] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BZ0LOR - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BZ0LOR
[12:39] <imroML> dbbrooke, got it. so in simple words, can we say the aprs network is a ground based antennas network (e.g. yagi, diamond x50 etc.) set up by voluntary civilians?
[12:43] <daveake> I doubt many are yagis, as those are direction, and the idea with APRS is to have a network of receivers on all the time with no knowledge of where mobile nodes might be
[12:43] <daveake> +al
[12:48] <craag> Most round here are simply a folded dipole, as they're often more resilient to the elements than white-stick kit.
[12:48] <craag> Mounted in a vertical / omnidirectional manner.
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[12:52] <imroML> daveake, yes, correct.
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[12:54] <imroML> daveake, ...but in general, APRS is a ground based antennas network set up by voluntary civilians, is that right?
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[13:04] <daveake> yup
[13:08] <mfa298> imroML: RS is related to the Radio Sondes various weather places send up so they can generate the weather (and wind) forecasts.
[13:10] <mfa298> as for APRS it's mostly run by Amateur Radio folks as it generally uses their frequencies (so you need a suitable license to use it). But it's a decent ready made network for those places that can use it for balloons. The UK folks can't as we're not allowed amateur radio airborne which is where a lot of the habhub stuff originally started as we had to do something different.
[13:11] <imroML> daveake, thanks.
[13:11] <imroML> mfa298, thank you.
[13:15] <imroML> mfa298, wait so people in the UK can't set up an antenna such as diamond x50 without a license? :)
[13:16] <AndyEsser> As someone that had a Diamond X50 set up in the UK without a license, you can
[13:17] <AndyEsser> but only for RX (or TX on very limited powers/bands that would make it pointless using an X50 anyway)
[13:18] <mfa298> you can receive amateur raio signals withough a license but you might not be able to do much with APRS without a license. I think most of the APRS software assumes you're licened as it can also transmit and im not sure the APRS-IS network allows data from non licensed people (anywhere, not just UK)
[13:19] <mfa298> what we can't do in the UK is use Amateur Radio airborne which means we can't use that on balloons (which is what's common in other places)
[13:22] <imroML> wow :) so... I'm based in the UK, use x50 but not transmitting anything, only receiving - I use both bands 2m & 70cm... is that illegal? :)
[13:22] <AndyEsser> no
[13:23] <russss> it's not illegal to receive on amateur radio bands
[13:23] <mfa298> to quote what I just said (and fixing the typo) "you can receive amateur raio signals without a license"
[13:23] <chris_99> would it be possible to use a v. low power laser for a balloons comms, or would that be illegal even if IR? (i dunno how well LoS would work anyway?)
[13:24] <russss> light is unlicensed, to my knowledge.
[13:24] <craag> russss: beware it is in some countries.
[13:24] <craag> (illegal to possess receivers for amateur bands without a license to tx)
[13:24] <russss> yes true, in the UK
[13:24] <craag> :)
[13:24] <mfa298> chris_99: maybe read the comment Gordon made in #raspberrypi about tall buildings
[13:25] <chris_99> what's that, not in that channel atm?
[13:25] <russss> chris_99: the biggest issue with light, as with higher-frequency radio signals, is directionality
[13:25] <chris_99> mm
[13:26] <mfa298> ah sorry I was assuming you were still in there - there's just been a load of talk about lasers and laser comms in there
[13:26] <chris_99> oh let me join heh
[13:27] <mfa298> Gordons comment was about laser links failing as tall buildings sway (because it's so directional)
[13:27] <chris_99> oh wow
[13:28] <mfa298> if you fire a laser over a long distance you still have a relatively small dot of light at the other end so you have to be incredibly accurate at pointing it at the receiver - somethign you probably can't do that well from a balloon.
[13:30] <mfa298> for directional radio antennas (dishes) people talk about beam widths of a few degrees, for a laser you're probably into factions of a degree
[13:31] <chris_99> eek, one thing i am kind of curious about is the laser technique they use for measuring cloud height
[13:31] <chris_99> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceilometer
[13:32] <craag> mfa298: a few degrees?? that's called a dinner dish not a real radio dish :P
[13:32] <chris_99> haha
[13:33] <chris_99> you're saying it would be more or less?
[13:33] <mfa298> not everyone has dishes the size you work with ;)
[13:34] <chris_99> oh does dish size directly relate
[13:34] <chris_99> to degrees
[13:34] <craag> the larger the dish, the narrower the beamwidth, for a given frequency
[13:35] <chris_99> oh interesting
[13:35] <chris_99> i thought it might have been the opposite
[13:35] <russss> the advantage with lasers is you have extremely high gain for a comparatively tiny "antenna"
[13:36] <russss> how many dBi is a standard laser pointer I wonder.
[13:36] <chris_99> i thought a bigger dish could 'see more' angle-wise?
[13:36] <craag> chris_99: generally you want to capture as much as you can of the radio waves coming from a far-off point (transmitter)
[13:37] <craag> a large dish gives you a large 'aperture' to 'catch' these waves
[13:37] <russss> it can collect more energy but it's focused on a smaller point
[13:38] <chris_99> oh interesting
[13:38] <craag> however, if the waves do not hit the dish in parellel, they cancel out, and this is the bit that causes it to narrow as the dish gets bigger
[13:38] <chris_99> so how do you make a dish that can see more of the horizon then, if you see what i mean?
[13:38] <superkuh> Multiple feeds.
[13:38] <russss> generally you move it around
[13:38] <chris_99> ahh
[13:39] <imroML> off-topic, is there any option to register my Nickname here (create a profile?)?
[13:40] <russss> imroML: https://freenode.net/kb/answer/registration
[13:40] <craag> or you can have lots of antennas (to give you a large 'catching area') and electronically combine them for many directions.
[13:40] <craag> this is a phased array antenna :)
[13:40] <craag> has the advantage of being able to have a high 'gain' without swinging tons of metal around, at the cost of some semi-serious electronics and software
[13:41] <chris_99> that kind of relates to beam forming right?
[13:41] <craag> yes that's it :)
[13:42] <imroML> russss, thanks!
[13:42] <chris_99> when you say antennas do you mean dishes still, or..?
[13:42] <russss> a dish is just an antenna which works well at certain frequencies, but the concept applies to all antennas
[13:42] <craag> no, can be anything at that point really
[13:42] <chris_99> gotcha
[13:42] <craag> yep that ^^
[13:42] <superkuh> As soon as you can make something a couple wavelengths long at your freq of interest the best solution is almost always one or two reflecting concentrator surfaces before the real antenna (feed).
[13:42] <chris_99> but for space stuff, would you use dishes?
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[13:43] <edmoore> you can use yagis for sats
[13:43] <edmoore> depends on the freq really
[13:43] <chris_99> oh interesting
[13:43] <craag> space stuff tends to need lots of gain to make it work usefully
[13:43] <superkuh> https://electrospaces.blogspot.com/2015/04/torus-antenna-to-significantly-increase.html (re: a dish that sees more than just a point)
[13:43] <edmoore> i've heard ham radio fm sats just with a whip on my handheld\
[13:43] <craag> high freqeuencies and dishes are the easiest way to achieve that for most spacecraft
[13:43] <craag> but need pointing and stuff
[13:44] <russss> most "serious" space stuff (especially deep space) is in the 2-10GHz range for which dishes are optimal
[13:44] <craag> playing around with ham sats on VHF & UHF is how I got into this, so I advise reading around about that :)
[13:45] <russss> but yeah there are ham sats on VHF/UHF
[13:45] <chris_99> have you guys tried moon bounce?
[13:45] <Darkside> i've received it
[13:45] <Darkside> havent made a contact yet
[13:45] <chris_99> nice :)
[13:45] <chris_99> that sounds really hard?
[13:45] <Darkside> the station i was receiving was a 'big gun' station
[13:46] <craag> and now I'm working with an 8GHz dish on <0.5 degree beamwidth :D
[13:46] <Darkside> so the majority of the work is done on his end, with massive antenna arrays
[13:46] <Darkside> on my end i was using a relatively small yagi antenna
[13:46] <russss> you can allegedly do moonbounce using 50W with FT8 now
[13:47] <Darkside> russss: only if the other end has a big array
[13:47] <Darkside> but yes
[13:47] <chris_99> apparently there's satelites from the 70s? that pirates use iirc
[13:47] <Darkside> yeah, various milcom sats with open transponders
[13:47] <Darkside> around 200-300 mhz...
[13:47] <Darkside> theres a lot of amateur radio satellites with repeaters/transponders onboard that are fairly easy to work
[13:48] <chris_99> cool
[13:48] <Darkside> the newest AMSAT, FOX-1D, is very easy to work, even with something as basic as a FM handheld
[13:48] <chris_99> to do amateur radio, you still need to do an exam right?
[13:48] <Darkside> but you'd want a small yagi antenna to make sure you can hear the satellite
[13:48] <Darkside> yes
[13:50] <Darkside> you have to prove you know something about what you're doing before you're let loose on the amateur bands
[13:51] <chris_99> mm
[13:52] <AndyEsser> Getting your Foundation license in the UK is easy enough chris_99
[13:52] <AndyEsser> not too difficult
[13:52] <AndyEsser> somehow even I managed to do it!
[13:52] <chris_99> heh
[13:52] <AndyEsser> I blame craag
[13:52] <AndyEsser> And other than Airband, haven't done anything with radios since :D
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[13:57] <chris_99> airband? the band pilots use?
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[13:58] <AndyEsser> chris_99: yes, was eluding to the fact the only time I've used a radio since getting my foundation was when I fly
[13:58] <chris_99> ooh nice! what do you fly
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[13:58] <AndyEsser> well not sure it really counts, I haven't flown in about 18 months
[13:58] <AndyEsser> PA28 or PA38
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[13:59] <chris_99> fun :)
[13:59] <AndyEsser> lots of fun, but family and work soaks up time and money :(
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[14:00] <AndyEsser> and my instructor has moved to Liverpool airport, and that's just a whole load more faff to get to
[14:00] <AndyEsser> and means contending with EasyJet jets....
[14:00] <chris_99> ah darn. i'm kind of curious about paramotors, but i imagine they're pretty expensive to fly too
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[14:03] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03gh bn_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=gh%20bn_chase
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[14:19] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03QST-01 after 036 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=QST-01
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[15:21] <PE2BZ> Can I have my payload back please ?
[15:21] <PE2BZ> https://imgur.com/a/kza8KnG
[15:23] <SpeedEvil> :)
[15:23] <SpeedEvil> Congrats on finding a tree
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[15:32] <PE2BZ> One small pull and the payload came of off the broom it was stuck in :-) Only the witch is mad now....
[15:34] <SpeedEvil> :)
[15:49] <michal_f> :)
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[16:20] <ideapad> i'm setting up X50 but the roof is approx 16 meters from the room I can connect it to the rasp Pi. is using a 15-20m cable acceptable what kind of cable should I buy?
[16:21] <AndyEsser> So I had about a 5m run from my X50 to where I would normally have my laptop
[16:21] <AndyEsser> I used some low loss coax type thing whose name completely escapes me atm
[16:22] <daveake> RG213 ?
[16:22] <AndyEsser> that sounds about right
[16:22] <daveake> That's a good lowish loss cheapish cable
[16:22] <AndyEsser> yea, it wasn't the expensive westflex low loss styuff
[16:22] <AndyEsser> stuff*
[16:22] <AndyEsser> but better than TV coax
[16:22] <daveake> heh
[16:22] <daveake> wet string is better than tv coax
[16:22] <AndyEsser> ha
[16:23] <AndyEsser> I really need to get my antennas set up again :(
[16:23] <ideapad> 5m sounds doable but maybe it doesn't even make sense to set up an antenna in my case? isn't 16m too large distance?
[16:23] <daveake> If you google "coax loss calculator" there are several around that will tell you the loss for x metres of RGthingy at wotsit MHz
[16:23] <AndyEsser> have a 1 metre run into an SDR plugged into a Raspberry Pi
[16:24] <AndyEsser> and run some Cat5e/Cat6 instead
[16:24] <daveake> Yeah this is often a better option - but the receiver close to the aerial
[16:24] <daveake> put
[16:25] <ideapad> I will do that but there's not option to bring power to the Rasp Pi and won't be able to replace batteries every day or week. ;)
[16:25] <AndyEsser> you run power over the Cat5
[16:25] <ideapad> hmmm
[16:25] <daveake> Well if you're running cables ...
[16:25] <daveake> Yeah power over cat5. There's a Pi POE board, or use a chearp POE --> 5V adapter box
[16:26] <ideapad> yeah, makes sense! can you guys suggest any tutorial for dummies on that topic? never done that before.
[16:27] <daveake> You can get a cheap POE power injector thing
[16:27] <daveake> I made this as an outdoor camera; I've got similar for outdoor Pi receiver but don't have photos handy https://twitter.com/daveake/status/825775487892992001
[16:29] <AndyEsser> daveake: far too much time on your hands :P
[16:30] <daveake> heh
[16:31] <ideapad> lol
[16:31] <daveake> Thing is, that box is here 'cos I've not got round to running the cable and nailing the box to a pole yet :/
[16:31] <daveake> I should have a shelf for shelved projects. Might be a big shelf.
[16:33] <AndyEsser> haha
[16:34] <ideapad> daveake, which one is you? https://twitter.com/daveake/status/476475220124237824 :)
[16:34] <michal_f> h150 is nice, good shielding
[16:34] <daveake> Heh, wasn't invited :(
[16:34] <ideapad> uu
[16:35] <ideapad> OK, great - so we have a few scenarios: a) RG213 b) H150 c) Cat5 which one? :)
[16:36] <michal_f> d) UPU's preamp
[16:36] <AndyEsser> ideapad: depends what you want to do
[16:37] <AndyEsser> I personally would run a load of RG213 with a pre-amp
[16:37] <AndyEsser> but that's me
[16:37] <AndyEsser> I don't like stuff out of reach
[16:37] <AndyEsser> but I am no expert
[16:37] <michal_f> preamps makes most sense when close to antenna
[16:37] <michal_f> and they don't need much attention once installed
[16:38] <AndyEsser> ^
[16:39] <daveake> I'd say ... if it's accessible (e.g. loft), then put the Pi near the aerial. If it's inaccessible then just run coax. Check a coax calculator to choose the cable, or use cheap cable and add a an amplifier *at the receiver*.
[16:39] <daveake> This is assuming this is a receive-only setup; gets tricky if you want to transmit and there's a pre-amp
[16:40] <ideapad> AndyEsser, the Goal is to create one of those: https://airspy.com/spy-servers/ X50 connected raspberry Pi. 16m distance (roof - room).
[16:41] <michal_f> for any particular band ?
[16:41] <michal_f> if not, then probably preamp is no good
[16:41] <ideapad> michal_f, dual band 70cm 2m.
[16:42] <michal_f> I have my spyservers with about 10m of h155 cable. One is airspyOne + diamond x50
[16:42] <AndyEsser> what you doing on 2m?
[16:42] <daveake> Well, 15m of RG213 gives you 2.4dB loss on 70cm; I'd say that's acceptible
[16:43] <michal_f> the other is HF+ with active miniwhip
[16:43] <AndyEsser> only useful thing on 2m is NOAA satellites :P
[16:43] <AndyEsser> which the X50 isn't great for
[16:43] <daveake> heh
[16:43] <AndyEsser> (but passable)
[16:43] <michal_f> there's also airband
[16:43] <michal_f> and X50 is OK for that
[16:43] <AndyEsser> yea but airband is AM and low power - so you really don't need a fancy set up to get it
[16:44] <AndyEsser> piece of string and a cup could probably get airband
[16:44] <michal_f> :)
[16:44] <AndyEsser> bloody AM
[16:44] <AndyEsser> is this the 1930's?!
[16:44] <ideapad> AndyEsser, on 2m? personally nothing, just want to set up an antenna for the folks.
[16:45] <ideapad> AndyEsser, yes NOAA satellites :)
[16:45] <AndyEsser> then make a QFH antenna and run it separate to your X50 :D
[16:45] <michal_f> sdr://83.29.234.195:2255 HF+
[16:45] <michal_f> sdr://83.29.234.195:2256 airspyOne with x50
[16:45] <AndyEsser> NOAA satellites are circularly polarised, and the X50 isn't really all that great for receiving the images
[16:46] <michal_f> available until next router reboot :)
[16:46] <AndyEsser> https://twitter.com/LeadHyperion/status/746687672484257792
[16:46] <AndyEsser> although isn't terrible
[16:46] <AndyEsser> ^ NOAA via X50 and RTL-SDR
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[16:52] <ideapad> yeap, how about the cable? ;>
[16:53] <AndyEsser> as I said, RG231
[16:53] <AndyEsser> RG213*
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[16:55] <ideapad> ok
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[16:58] <ideapad> out of curiosity, are you guys using the page version of the freenode ( http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=highaltitude ) or a desktop/mobile client?
[17:07] <AndyEsser> I use IRSSI on a linux box
[17:08] <edmoore> irccloud
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[17:10] <ideapad> oh that's really cool cause it keeps you connected! thanks!
[17:11] <mfa298> ideapad: as others have suggested start with RG213 and plug the numbers into a loss calculator and see if it's acceptable to you (3dB is probably a good start as the max loss) then adjust cable type/length etc to suit requirements and budget
[17:11] <mfa298> lower loss at a length/frequency tends to mean extra £££
[17:12] <ideapad> oki, what's loss calc? :|
[17:13] <mfa298> what you were being told to look for earlier:
[17:13] <mfa298> 16:23 < daveake> If you google "coax loss calculator" there are several around that will tell you the loss for x metres of RGthingy at wotsit MHz
[17:13] <edmoore> coaxial cables make quite good resistors, especially at higher frequencies and longer lengths. so you might find that your antenna produces enough signal for your receiver if directly connected, but if you connect it with 50m of coaxial cable the signal might be almost completely gone by the time it reaches the radio input\
[17:14] <edmoore> thankfully this is all well understood and there are calculators to figure out the losses
[17:14] <edmoore> if you're doing <1GHz stuff with runs of only a few m (<10m), who cares just use whatever
[17:15] <mfa298> or just find some datasheets and look for the dB loss/100m for the frequencies you're interested in and do the math yourself.
[17:23] <ideapad> ok, will do. thx.
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[19:26] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BSS18 after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BSS18
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[20:36] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening
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[21:25] <pd7pn> On what freq. operates baloon BSS18 ?
[21:29] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PI4Zhab - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PI4Zhab
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[23:06] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
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[23:09] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK2UNS - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VK2UNS
[23:10] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK2UNS-2 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VK2UNS-2
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[23:34] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK2LNA-2 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VK2LNA-2
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[00:00] --- Sat Nov 10 2018