highaltitude.log.20181104

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[02:06] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LACHLAN_RX_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=LACHLAN_RX_chase
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[04:19] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03U3B-24 after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=U3B-24
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[07:28] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BSS18 after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BSS18
[07:30] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03OK1MIP_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=OK1MIP_chase
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[07:49] <AFelix> is magion s1 in air?
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[08:16] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03OM3KAA - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=OM3KAA
[08:16] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03MAGION-1S after 039 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MAGION-1S
[08:34] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SOSA_Team1_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SOSA_Team1_chase
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[10:06] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KA9CQL-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KA9CQL-11
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[10:24] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03DF7PN-12 after 037 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DF7PN-12
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[11:06] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 039 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
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[11:49] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LACHLAN_RX_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=LACHLAN_RX_chase
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[11:57] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03U3B-24 after 037 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=U3B-24
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[13:54] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03AE0SS-13 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AE0SS-13
[13:54] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC0D-1 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC0D-1
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[15:37] <dani> hi I wonder if there would be any value for the community if I set up a server like this: https://airspy.com/spy-servers/ ?
[15:46] <PE2BZ> Hi Dani, I think that depends on where you live, and what antenna (height) you can connect to the Airspy
[15:48] <PE2BZ> There are very little receivers in Germany for example and our payloads tend to fly that way quite often.
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[16:00] <dani> Hi PE2BZ, I live in London and will buy any recommended or necessary antenna.
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[17:45] <gopa_> hello
[17:45] <gopa_> ;)
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[18:23] <dani> I live in London and wonder if there would be any value for the community if I set up a server like this: https://airspy.com/spy-servers/ ? Will buy any recommended or necessary antenna.
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[18:24] <PE2BZ> Dani is back :-)
[18:24] <dani> Yeah. :)
[18:25] <PE2BZ> There is a websdr for 433 - 435 MHz located in Farnham, which I think is about 20 miles Southwest of London ?
[18:25] <PE2BZ> Do you happen to have a high / free antenna setup location ?
[18:28] <dani> Farnham is 58 km from my location.
[18:28] <dani> 36 miles
[18:29] <dani> I might be able to install an antenna on a 7 floor building.
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[18:30] <PE2BZ> That would be great ! And Airspy (not the HF) or RTL dongle ?
[18:30] <jarod> Both are Airspy
[18:30] <jarod> R2 or HF+ :)
[18:31] <PE2BZ> RTL Dongles perform well but like to have some bandpass filtering in front of it
[18:31] <PE2BZ> HF+ does not work on 434 MHz
[18:32] <dani> That's super flexible. Whatever works.
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[18:34] <PE2BZ> The interesting range would be 434 - 435 MHz and it´s a bit of waste to use a 6 or 10 MHz dongle for that purpose.
[18:35] <PE2BZ> Is the decision about Airspy server allready made ? I personally like the OpenWeb RX , like websdr.pe2bz.nl:8075
[18:35] <PE2BZ> http://websdr.pe2bz.nl:8075
[18:35] <dani> Not at all, whatever you guys need.
[18:36] <dani> Regarding the range, personally, I use 433-435 MHz but if you as a community need anything else - tell me. :)
[18:37] <PE2BZ> Personally I like 433 - 435 to listen to the UK repeaters every now and then :-)
[18:38] <PE2BZ> I mostly use the UK websdr´s to check frequencies for HAB trackers if not listed or if drifting or without announcement. When it comes in range of the westcoast of the Netherlands I decode on mu IC-7000
[18:41] <PE2BZ> OpenWebRX gives also scrollback in the webbrowser so I would certainly opt for that
[18:41] <dani> I'm also mostly interested in HAB trackers.
[18:42] <jarod> With Airspy you can check lots: http://x264.nl/dump/airbands_2018-03-23.jpg :0
[18:42] <dani> What kind of / model antenna would be good?
[18:43] <jarod> so why not both? :P
[18:43] <dani> So, would you recommend Airspy, funcube Dongle Pro+ or smth else?
[18:43] <PE2BZ> jarod I cannot have that view on a websdr with multiple users with Airspy server. At least, it did not work for me
[18:44] <PE2BZ> FCD Pro+ captures only 192 kHz
[18:44] <jarod> 8 MHz on the Airspy 2
[18:44] <PE2BZ> So Airspy or metal rtl-sdr
[18:44] <dani> Budget for the receiver would be ~150-200USD
[18:45] <PE2BZ> dani that makes 40 $ for the metal RTL and leaves 100 $ for the HAB amp ?
[18:46] <PE2BZ> https://store.uputronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=53
[18:46] <dani> I mean, for the receiver (e.g. Funcube) only. Will organize additional budget for the antenna etc.
[18:46] <PE2BZ> rtl-sdr V3 supports bias T
[18:47] <PE2BZ> I would not use the Airspy for a fixed 2 MHz wide receiver station. It´s a bit of a waste
[18:48] <dani> ok
[18:48] <dani> ;-)
[18:51] <PE2BZ> And now for the antenna... I had used a QFH 430 MHz antenna but that performed OK for low earth orbiting satellites but worse than my diamond V-2000 for weather and radiosondes
[18:51] <jarod> use a combiner :)
[18:53] <PE2BZ> For what purpose ? Loose 3 dB in the combiner and hope sometimes one antenna outperforms the other ?
[18:54] <jarod> can go down to 1 to 0.8 dB if done properly
[18:54] <dani> off-topic, which antenna might be great for LEO satellites?
[18:56] <PE2BZ> Even that depends on the used frequency, 144 MHz ? Weathersats on 137 Mhz ? LEO´s on 437 MHz ?
[18:56] <PE2BZ> An Az-El rotator with a logper would be nice, 140 - 500 MHz logper
[18:57] <dani> yeah, makes sense but I have no idea what frequency these LEO satellites use.
[18:57] <PE2BZ> And for the HAB´s, in my experience the V-2000 and X-5000 outperform the 7 elements 430 MHz Yagi between 3000 and 0 meters and the yagi is better at 15 km and up.
[18:58] <PE2BZ> Radio amateur satellites use 145 MHz uplink and 436 MHz down and vice versa. The NOAA weather satellites do use 137 MHz but do work quite well with a 144 MHz QFH type antenna
[18:58] <dani> re V-2000, you mean the triband base antenna, Diamond V-2000?
[18:59] <PE2BZ> Yes, that one. I bought an X-5000 to replace that one yesterday, after 12 years it´s mechanically ill but RX still very good
[18:59] <PE2BZ> And I almost never use 6 meter band / 50 MHz
[19:00] <PE2BZ> x-5000 has a big 0,6 dB more gain at 434 MHz ;-)
[19:00] <dani> I won't be able to mount triband base antenna on the roof... might disappear. :)
[19:01] <PE2BZ> x-30 or x-50 ?
[19:01] <PE2BZ> Keep in mind to buy the Diamond brand if you order x-30 or x-50 those chinese clones not from diamond are really shit mechanically.
[19:02] <dani> both
[19:02] <dani> yeah, i heard about this.
[19:02] <dani> Regarding the roof, there's an option to mount Yagi style antenna e.g. http://www.zdacomm.com/430-mhz-yagi-directional-antenna.html
[19:03] <dani> will mount it to a chimney, 3 meters above the roof.
[19:04] <dani> I guess triband base antenna can only be placed on a roof... and it may dissapear quickly. ;>
[19:07] <Ian_> A problem with tri-band colinears generally is that for the 6m band, the radials are not really long enough and performance there is not particularly good. Better to buy a dual band one.
[19:07] <dani> A colleague of mine recommended to buy smth cheap like this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Original-Outdoor-25DBI-4G-LTE-SMA-Yagi-Antenna-WIFI-Signal-Booster-Amplifierc/202131712317?hash=item2f0ffd293d:g:-ZgAAOSwfjRaIRew:rk:11:pf:0 mount and leave it for a month to check if someone will get interested into this device or not... if not stolen, after a month or two replace it with something more expensive.
[19:10] <dani> I think it might be a good option, also I can learn if and how bad is this cheap one... so I will better understand what to buy later on. But honestly no clue if the cheap one above ( Original Outdoor 25DBI 4G LTE SMA Yagi Antenna ) would do any work for now...
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[19:17] <dani> What do you think?
[19:17] <Ian_> You do need to ensure that the Yagi you choose actually matches the band that you are interested in.
[19:19] <dani> yes, I use 433-435 MHz (for the HABs), but like I said before if you as a community need or recommend any other range - tell me.
[19:19] <Ian_> A Yagi is very frequency band specific; tuning and frequency roll-off is a lot tighter than with a colinear
[19:22] <PE2BZ> the yagi you pointed to is totally unusable. And without rotator I would not place a Yagi with great reception in one direction (with 40 degrees angle)
[19:22] <PE2BZ> Than I would buy / build a groundplane for 70 cm band
[19:23] <PE2BZ> Ian_ good evening, can you point me to a webstore in the UK with radio amateur antennas ?
[19:26] <dani> Ian_, regarding the frequency band specific, just realized you're right, e.g. the cheap Yagi from ebay works with these frequency Ranges: 791~821MHz /832~862MHz/ 1710~1785MHz/1805~1880MHz/ 2500~2570MHz/2620~2690MHz Which means, will not work at all for the HABs transmitters.
[19:28] <jarod> that sounds like a mobile antenna :P
[19:28] <dani> PE2BZ, yeah, exactly. Totally unusable. :-)
[19:28] <jarod> just playing around with one of those bands: http://x264.nl/dump/2500-2690mhz-2018-11-04.jpg :)
[19:28] <dani> jarod, mhm. ;-)
[19:32] <dani> PE2BZ, when you mentioned the 7 elements 430 MHz Yagi, do you mean this one https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SPECIAL-YAGI-70cm-7-Element-Antenna/302026286725?hash=item46522b6685:g:DKsAAOSwbWZaYeiw:rk:17:pf:0 ? I can get this one if you guys think it's okay, the price isn't bad at all but is the frequency 430-440MHz useful for the community?
[19:34] <PE2BZ> Antenna is nice, good for the frequency band, but directional. So if you point it to Scotland you wil (almost) not receive radiosondes from the east or west and weak signals from the south.
[19:35] <PE2BZ> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOONRAKER-SQBM-200-DUAL-BAND-CO-LINEAR-2M-70CM-4-5-7-5-DB-GAIN/292793751484?hash=item442bde17bc:g:EekAAOSw~29bzhny:rk:1:pf:0
[19:39] <PE2BZ> Or this with the dipoles mounted like this (on your own mast) https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/pZQAAOSw~YRaduyX/s-l1600.jpg
[19:39] <PE2BZ> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Antenna-folded-dipole-array-for-repeater-ham-70-cm-use-430-440-Mhz-427-444-Mhz/292784372574?hash=item442b4efb5e:g:MZcAAOSwMGVadux1:rk:4:pf:0
[19:40] <PE2BZ> but for approx 7 db Gain I would choose the X-50 or similar
[19:41] <dani> re directional, yeah, you're right. :| I guess it's good for a personal use, e.g. when you hunt a landed payload but not for what I want to do...
[19:42] <PE2BZ> jarod strange story but: any news of the start of 5G frequncy use ? There was an item about birds dropping dead in different towns over here and a link was made to the start of using 5G frequencies ? Can be a hoax still, however.
[19:43] <jarod> hoax
[19:43] <PE2BZ> jarod btw my seconde Chinese airspy stopped working. no 1.8 V output. Did a hot air soldering 2 weeks ago, worked for 2 days but then again no go....
[19:43] <jarod> these frequencies are being used for many years now
[19:43] <jarod> 10-50 GHz on air links....
[19:43] <jarod> assuming they are talking above 6 GHz
[19:44] <PE2BZ> I don´t think it´s about above 6 GHz. Trying to find the item.
[19:45] <jarod> well below 6 GHz are also being in use, for much longer even :P
[19:53] <Ian_> Moonraker provided my last colinear antenna Ben.
[19:54] <Ian_> Sorry for the delay in replying, but I was afk eating my Sunday dinner roast lamb.
[19:54] <PE2BZ> With some dark beer ;-) ?
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[19:56] <PE2BZ> https://pastebin.com/kXN3HLLN 10 dBd and 2,5 meters heigh
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[19:58] <Ian_> A 1/4 wave vertical whip for 144-145MHz, will also operate passably well on it's third harmonic which is around 432-435MHz. The same can't be said of a Yagi, as lengths and spacing all conspire to make it pretty much a single band job, for the most part.
[19:59] <dani> PE2BZ, regarding: "but for approx 7 db Gain I would choose the X-50 or similar" are you suggesting to 7 db (the seller of the used antenna says "4.5 / 7.5 DB GAIN" ) ?
[20:00] <dani> if yes (why 7 db is important?), how about this model: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Maas-X-50-N-BASE-STATION-ANTENNA-DUAL-BAND-COLLINEAR-AERIAL-144-440-VHF-UHF-X50/162949809579?epid=1062093691&hash=item25f090c5ab:g:jU4AAOSw9hlanpms:rk:1:pf:1&frcectupt=true ?
[20:01] <PE2BZ> indeed, max for the setup with 4 dipoles, with ideal distances would be 8 dBd and gives a lot of work compared to the DIAMOND X-50.
[20:01] <PE2BZ> Without clicking the link some of my neck hair is raising....
[20:01] <PE2BZ> MAAS was the company that sold me 3 X-50´s from China....
[20:02] <dani> haha ;)
[20:02] <Ian_> No beer, but it sounds like a good idea. If you can drink beer, you haven't eaten enough :)
[20:03] <PE2BZ> lol
[20:03] <PE2BZ> I am on a fruit diet.....
[20:03] <PE2BZ> Anything but fruit ;-)
[20:04] <PE2BZ> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DIAMOND-X-50N-DUAL-BAND-BASE-VERTICAL-homebase-amateur-vhf-antenna-2m-70cm/350819552501?epid=1032780934&hash=item51ae798cf5:g:TOAAAMXQNo5TY6JQ:rk:3:pf:0
[20:04] <Ian_> Harry Seacombe (comedian) famously said that he was on a See Food Diet, he only has to See Food to want to eat it.
[20:04] <PE2BZ> Nice one :-)
[20:05] <Ian_> Birds falling from the skies . . . Hmmm. Birds getting sick and not being able to fly maybe, but it sounds like a scare story from the anti-RF factions
[20:07] <PE2BZ> dani 7 dBd gain means signals compared to an antenna with no gain (Isotrope radiator) are 7 dB stronger. That is, in S-meter scale, from S2 to S3 and in strenght every 3 dB is double power. so 6 dBd is 4 times stronge signal. That does not go endlessly by the way, the higher the gain the flatter the radiation pattern of the antenna.
[20:10] <PE2BZ> I am afk for the rest of the night. Going to get some attention from the XYL :-)
[20:10] <Ian_> I disagree . . . sorry . . . don't confuse dBi and dBd. vertical antennas are typically referenced to the mythical isotropic source, but a dipole has approx 2.1 or 2.3 dB gain over that.
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[20:11] <dani> Gentlemen, so should I buy this one: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DIAMOND-X-50N-DUAL-BAND-BASE-VERTICAL-homebase-amateur-vhf-antenna-2m-70cm/350819552501?epid=1032780934&hash=item51ae798cf5:g:TOAAAMXQNo5TY6JQ:rk:3:pf:0 ? :) Is that the best choice?
[20:11] <Ian_> Yagis are typically referenced to the gain over a dipole, so 6dBd is 3dB + 3dB or four times the gain of the dipole.
[20:12] <PE2BZ> Ian_ you may disagree :-) I did not confuse dBi and dBd if I am right, I am used to deduct the dBi gain with 2.3 dB to get the real gain
[20:13] <Ian_> Disreputable or shady dealers will sell you that same antenna as 8.2dB not being honest enough to admit that they are deceiving you by omission of the dbi cachet.
[20:13] <PE2BZ> ¨ every 3 dB is double power. so 6 dBd is 4 times stronge signal ¨
[20:14] <PE2BZ> I would indeed go for the Diamond. And now I am awayyyyy
[20:14] <PE2BZ> Good evening to all !
[20:14] <Ian_> Gnite Ben
[20:14] <dani> Good night.
[20:16] <Ian_> Dani look at the specs for the antenna you wish to buy. The X50 is the baseline product. Other dual band collinears in the series have better gain figures.
[20:17] <dani> Ian_, the challenge is that it's not really for me. I want to set up a spy server for the community.
[20:17] <dani> Like this: https://airspy.com/spy-servers/
[20:21] <Ian_> https://www.diamondantenna.net/Product_Catalog/base_station.html see the section VHF & UHF Dualband & Repeater. Connector N type is superior to the UHF connector (PL295) the impedance of which begins to go to pot above about 150MHz
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[20:23] <Ian_> Your choice of course. Lots of people are very happy with an X50. extra height may well give better performance than moving up to the next antenna in the series. Every metre or two in height makes a "significant" difference.
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[20:38] <dani> OK, just got the antenna. What other hardware do I need to buy? e.g. funcube Dongle Pro+?
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[22:05] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BSS18 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BSS18
[22:10] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Hhhhhh_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Hhhhhh_chase
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[23:06] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
[23:08] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LACHLAN_RX_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=LACHLAN_RX_chase
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[00:00] --- Mon Nov 5 2018