highaltitude.log.20181015

[00:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P3510044 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P3510044
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[00:27] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P2340183 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P2340183
[00:56] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0350230 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0350230
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[01:27] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N0733138 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N0733138
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[02:12] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4020604 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4020604
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[03:08] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_DFM09-18020383 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_DFM09-18020383
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[03:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_M1914091 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_M1914091
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[03:57] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P3830410 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P3830410
[04:14] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P4120710 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P4120710
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[04:49] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N2310702 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N2310702
[04:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P3630292 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P3630292
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[05:04] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P3340336 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P3340336
[05:17] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0350222 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0350222
[05:39] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P3011089 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P3011089
[05:40] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4430228 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4430228
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[07:16] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P3830570 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P3830570
[07:16] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P4120667 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P4120667
[07:26] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_DFM09-505822 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_DFM09-505822
[07:56] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P3340524 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P3340524
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[09:34] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P2940941 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P2940941
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[10:53] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P3620339 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P3620339
[10:53] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N2310704 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N2310704
[11:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P2540399 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P2540399
[11:06] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
[11:17] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4020606 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4020606
[11:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P3510128 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P3510128
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[11:22] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4140224 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4140224
[11:26] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3730294 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3730294
[11:28] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P3450640 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P3450640
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[11:31] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4450548 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4450548
[11:37] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_L3813686 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_L3813686
[11:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4430299 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4430299
[11:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4840247 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4840247
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[11:46] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_DFM09-618966 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_DFM09-618966
[11:46] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0910953 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0910953
[12:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P3450868 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P3450868
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[12:19] <Babs_> Bonjour and I hope everyone is well....ping fsphil for some 32 bit i2c insight
[12:20] <Babs_> well 32 bit processor and i2c insight anyway
[12:32] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PB0AHX - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PB0AHX
[12:37] <fsphil> Babs_: hello. fire away. I might not know but there's smart people here too :)
[12:38] <Babs_> everyone on here is smarter than me. However, it is a bit of code that I think you had input on
[12:39] <Babs_> So, having lost patience with trying to eek out a little more memory from the atmega 328 I have taken the plunge and converted all my code and got it working on a 32 bit SAMD board
[12:39] <Babs_> and all is fine, save for a small issue with trying to poll the FD and FE registers on the ublox
[12:40] <Babs_> I had previously been using some of the Flextrak code, which uses the i2c library (note, not the wire library) to communicate with the ublox
[12:40] <Babs_> the i2c library is not compatible with the SAMD chip, so have reverted back to the wire library, and this is the issue
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[12:41] <fsphil> what was the issue with the wire library?
[12:42] <Babs_> To access the FD and FE bytes on the ublox, which punt out the number of bytes to be read from the ublox, you have to write 0xFD over i2c to the ublox
[12:42] <Babs_> but I don't think that is possible using the wire library, as that only writes 7bit addresses
[12:42] <Babs_> ie up to 127 or so
[12:43] <Babs_> and in this case i have to write 0xFD
[12:43] <fsphil> i2c addresses are only 7-bits long, the LSB is used as a read/write flag
[12:43] <fsphil> (I think it's the LSB anyway)
[12:43] <fsphil> ack, brb
[12:44] <Babs_> In the i2c library (which works), I write something like i2c.requestFrom (Ublox_address, 0xFD, 2) to say get me 2 bytes starting at register location 0xFD
[12:45] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0350247 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0350247
[12:47] <Babs_> (which works)
[12:47] <Babs_> converting to wire, I write wire.Begintransmission(Ublox_address), wire.write(0xFD),wire.endtransmission() (I have checked the endtransmission and it appears the byte is being received correctly from the ublox)
[12:48] <Babs_> However, then when requesting 2 bytes, it gives me the first two bytes of the message being polled (i.e. 0xB5, 0x62) so it is clearly starting from the default register location 0xFF and ignoring my instruction to start from 0xFD
[12:51] <Babs_> the only thing I could come up with was in Section 10.5.1.1 of https://www.u-blox.com/sites/default/files/products/documents/u-blox8-M8_ReceiverDescrProtSpec_%28UBX-13003221%29_Public.pdf
[12:51] <miek> it looks like the Wire library has a requestFrom method too?
[12:52] <Babs_> it says "Next, the 8-bit address of the register to be read must be written to the bus. "
[12:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_DFM09-18033173 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_DFM09-18033173
[12:53] <Babs_> Hi Miek, it does, but it is of the form Wire.requestFrom(address, quantity) where address is the address of the device, rather than the register in that device
[12:55] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N0743090 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N0743090
[12:55] <Babs_> the equivalent one in the i2c library therefore needs to be broken out into a few steps for it to work in the wire library, per this kind of example https://stackoverflow.com/questions/35156941/i2c-read-from-registers-with-arduino
[12:59] <miek> i think the problem with splitting it up is it's sending a stop condition when calling endTransmission, which probably resets the transaction. you could try calling endTransmission(false) to avoid sending the stop
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[13:00] <Babs_> Hi Miek, I tried putting the endTransmission after the requestfrom instruction, would that have done the same thing?
[13:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_DFM09-17007843 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_DFM09-17007843
[13:01] <Babs_> So, I tried wire.Begintransmission(Ublox_address), wire.write(0xFD),wire.endtransmission() then wire.requestfrom (ublox_Address,2) first, then
[13:01] <Babs_> wire.Begintransmission(Ublox_address), wire.write(0xFD),wire.requestfrom (ublox_Address,2) ,wire.endtransmission() secondly, but neither worked
[13:02] <Babs_> I didn't however try wire.Begintransmission(Ublox_address), wire.write(0xFD),wire.endtransmission(false) then wire.requestfrom (ublox_Address,2) - is that what you are suggesting trying?
[13:02] <fsphil> iis the ublox address correct?
[13:02] <fsphil> the library might need it in a different format
[13:02] <miek> Babs_: yep, try that
[13:02] <fsphil> you might need to divide it by 2
[13:03] <miek> reads were returning 0xb5, 0x62 so the address should be good
[13:04] <Babs_> hi fsphil, yes it is all correct. The wire library works fine for turning off the NMEA sentences, configuring flight mode etc.
[13:04] <Babs_> and the messages are being received correctly, as the data is there as miek says
[13:04] <fsphil> ah gotcha
[13:05] <Babs_> I can do it a clunky way, which is just to read from the default location, knowing how many bytes are say in a NAV-PVT message etc.
[13:05] <Babs_> but having done it the elegant way, with the ublox telling me how many bytes are available, the perfectionist in me wants to keep doing it that way
[13:06] <Babs_> thanks miek, I will try that when I get back later
[13:06] <fsphil> hehe, yeah I'd be the same
[13:06] <Babs_> the SAMD chip is blisteringly fast
[13:07] <Babs_> *compared to the atmega, not in absolute terms
[13:07] <fsphil> what library are you using that works?
[13:07] <Babs_> but it is fun watching the same program run side by side
[13:07] <Babs_> I use i2c library on the atmega328, works fine
[13:08] <Babs_> but the i2c library fails to compile on the SAMD through the arduino IDE
[13:08] <fsphil> got a link to it?
[13:08] <Babs_> so I've switched back to the wire library for that platform
[13:10] <Babs_> it is this one http://dsscircuits.com/articles/arduino-i2c-master-library
[13:15] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P3240945 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P3240945
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[13:21] <fsphil> looks fairly simple
[13:26] <Babs_> I couldn't figure it in 4 hours of fiddling last night....
[13:27] <fsphil> does: start, sends address (+ write flag), sends register, start, sends address, reads the requested number of bytes, sends a stop
[13:29] <Babs_> as in thats what the i2c library does?
[13:30] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_DFM09-616888 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_DFM09-616888
[13:37] <fsphil> yeah
[13:38] <fsphil> the wire library is hiding all the fun bits
[13:39] <Babs_> so is the missing part in my interpretation the middle "start" in your 1427 post?
[13:39] <fsphil> quite possibly
[13:40] <Babs_> i.e. wire.begintransmission (UbloxAddress), wire.write (0xFD), wire.begintransmission (UbloxAddress), wire.requestfrom(UbloxAddress,2), wire.endtransmission()
[13:41] <Babs_> it is a combo i didn't try yesterday certainly
[13:41] <miek> requestFrom sends a start underneath the covers
[13:42] <Babs_> ok, so then my previous interpretation did everything in my 1440 post then?
[13:42] <Babs_> hmmmmmmm
[13:43] <miek> i still reckon it's sending a stop mid-transaction and that's the problem
[13:45] <Babs_> The one thing I can't figure out though is if the Ublox is just expecting a 7-bit register (on the basis that the 8th is a read/write bit), but it has up to 0xFF registers to be read from
[13:46] <Babs_> how can you ever access any register above Decimal 127 (though the i2c library clearly is doing that, as it looks as if it is writing 7-bit address too, like the wire library)
[13:46] <fsphil> the ublox's i2c address is 7 bits
[13:46] <fsphil> the register is unrelated
[13:48] <Babs_> ahhh, I thought all numbers (address or register) was 7 bits
[13:48] <Babs_> *were
[13:48] <Babs_> that makes sense and is probably a blind alley that I was running into
[13:49] <Babs_> it's therefore what the i2c.requestfrom (Ublox_Address, 0xFD, 2) does that is different from the separate wire commands that should in theory do the same thing
[13:49] <fsphil> i2c doesn't really do registers
[13:50] <fsphil> all just data as far as it is concerned
[13:50] <fsphil> and yeah, the read(address, register, count) is doing quite a lot behind the scenes
[13:55] <Babs_> did you go into the i2c library on github somewhere to fwork out your 1427 post?
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[14:03] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_DFM09-17008758 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_DFM09-17008758
[14:15] <fsphil> Babs_: downloaded it from their site
[14:18] <Babs_> fsphil, miek - on the basis of the kind of terms used in this discussion, I found this http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=385377.0
[14:18] <Babs_> the command at the bottom looks like it has potential
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[14:30] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_DFM09-17008778 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_DFM09-17008778
[14:31] <fsphil> not sure. not part of the standard wire library from the looks of it
[14:39] <Babs_> I'll try the overloaded command when i get back and see how it goes. Have at least centred on the (probable) cause so that is a bonus. Thanks for all of your help both.
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[15:06] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DC2EH-12 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DC2EH-12
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[15:49] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_DFM09-17008887 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_DFM09-17008887
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[16:14] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HABISRAEL after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HABISRAEL
[16:14] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_DFM06-065620 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_DFM06-065620
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[16:19] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_DFM09-17008769 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_DFM09-17008769
[16:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CornOnTheBranch - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CornOnTheBranch
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[16:48] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N2310705 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N2310705
[16:49] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4020605 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4020605
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[17:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3850243 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3850243
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[17:08] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0350251 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0350251
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[17:14] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4140117 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4140117
[17:27] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P3610359 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P3610359
[17:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4420273 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4420273
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[18:46] Swisscheese66 (b2eeaca1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.238.172.161) joined #highaltitude.
[18:46] <Swisscheese66> Hi,
[18:49] chris_99 (uid26561@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tdbnnjbbhcjbbczk) left irc:
[18:49] <Swisscheese66> I have to ask again the community: we are currently testing a brandnew PiZero-board with RTTY (works well) and LORA (no signal at all). I would appreciate, if there are any testing software / other checks around, so I can test the system and find out, what the reason for this failure is.
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[19:22] <SA6BSS-Mike> Swisscheese66: what radio do ypu use, its har to see the lora as its quite wide, only way to detect lora tx is a sdr
[19:23] <SA6BSS-Mike> what hat do you use? the one from uputronic? https://store.uputronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=61&product_id=99
[19:24] <Swisscheese66> Yes, I'm detecting the signals using a SDR-dongle. This works quite well, I have some experience with a Raspi 2 and LoRa board. In both cases I'm using the uputronics stuff.
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[19:25] <SA6BSS-Mike> so you see and decode the rtty but no trace of any lora tx?
[19:26] <SA6BSS-Mike> I do belive daveake is the one to ping and see if have any insight how to progress
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[19:31] <PE2BZ> Swisscheese66 ¨LoRa no signal at all¨ means also no visible signals on the SDR dongle waterfall ?
[19:31] <Swisscheese66> You saved my day!!! I checked the link you sent and realized, that I made a mistake during the purchase. I thought, that I already have a LoRa board, because I saw two gold-connectors. Well, how much stupidity can be pressed between tow ears??? Thans a lot again!! So this "problem" is solved!
[19:35] <SA6BSS-Mike> :)
[19:37] <dbrooke> what do you have? if it's https://store.uputronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=62&product_id=96 then it should already have LoRa according to the description
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[19:43] <Swisscheese66> The funny thing is, yes, I have ordered this particular part. BUT I cannot identify any LoRa chip on the board. So far, I think, the two gold connectors on the 240£-part are for RTTY and APRS. And if you want to have LoRa, you have to order ANOTHER board with a single gold-connector again and with the "correct" chips on board. I will check this tomorrow with uputronics.
[19:46] <daveake> Erm, there's no APRS on the zero. It's RTTY (transmitter one side of the board) and LoRa the other side.
[19:46] <daveake> Are you using the supplied SD card as-is, or did you change it or build it yourself ?
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[19:50] <Swisscheese66> Uuppsss, thats strange. Concerning your questions: Yes, I used the delivered SD-card and worked step by step the described procedure in the pits-manual. I only changed the payload-name twice and "activated" the first Lora-block in the textfile. In row 37 I changed LORA_Mode_0=1
[19:50] Nick change: Steffann -> Steffanx
[19:50] <daveake> I'm pretty sure it's the _1 block, and that should be enabled already.
[19:51] <daveake> 'cos a) that's my recollection, and b) wot it sez in the manual
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[19:52] <Babs_> fsphil, miek
[19:53] <Babs_> re: earlier, the overextended Wire.requestFrom(UBLOX_I2C_ADDRESS,1,0xFD,1,true); didn't work
[19:53] <Babs_> however, I am using a modified adafruit core, so the modification might have not been carried through
[19:53] <Swisscheese66> The strange thing is, no, it is not enabled, in the original file there had been the first 4 rows of the second block enabled, which confused me quite a bit.
[19:54] <Babs_> miek's suggestion of Wire.beginTransmission(UBLOX_I2C_ADDRESS); Wire.write(0xFD); Wire.endTransmission(false); Wire.requestFrom(UBLOX_I2C_ADDRESS,2,true);
[19:54] <Babs_> did however work, so all solved. Many thanks for your help.
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[19:55] <daveake> "In the original file ...", so it's as I said; the _1 (CE1) LoRa module is enabled in the original SD card config.
[19:58] <Swisscheese66> Now I understand, yes, the "second" block in the textfile should be enabled. During my debugging procedure, I already checked that and it didn't work as well.
[20:00] <fsphil> Babs_: good to hear!
[20:05] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_M2353041 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_M2353041
[20:12] <Swisscheese66> @Dave: how great do you think is the risk, that during such a testing marathon deep in the sofwate something is changed to a bad value? Where can I get a virgin image for the Zero?
[20:12] <daveake> *All* you need for the lora side is to set the payload ID, frequency and mode (1). That's it.
[20:13] <daveake> Do those and it'll work.
[20:14] <Swisscheese66> OK, I'll try this tomorrow again.Bye and good night
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[21:03] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_DFM09-17028107 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_DFM09-17028107
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[22:48] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N2310706 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N2310706
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[23:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0350263 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0350263
[23:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3730349 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3730349
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[23:06] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
[23:11] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P3510283 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P3510283
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[23:17] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4020569 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4020569
[23:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P1620526 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P1620526
[23:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4050217 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4050217
[23:23] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4510593 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4510593
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[23:33] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_L3813573 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_L3813573
[23:36] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4420282 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4420282
[23:36] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P3520240 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P3520240
[23:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0950226 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0950226
[23:48] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4511315 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4511315
[23:51] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0910952 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0910952
[23:55] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P3830081 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P3830081
[00:00] --- Tue Oct 16 2018