highaltitude.log.20180913

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[00:34] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KG5IFR after 039 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KG5IFR
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[00:56] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N2310528 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N2310528
[00:59] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4010501 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4010501
[01:48] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD4BFP - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD4BFP
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[04:23] Nick change: day__ -> day
[04:37] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N1740588 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N1740588
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[04:53] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P2840434 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P2840434
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[05:16] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P1830256 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P1830256
[05:37] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P1750638 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P1750638
[05:37] FireFighter (~firefight@2601:44:4200:ab4f:9967:f4d4:9dda:b3e3) joined #highaltitude.
[05:39] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4411050 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4411050
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[05:59] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N2310529 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N2310529
[06:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_M4950005 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_M4950005
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[06:19] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03U3B-23 after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=U3B-23
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[07:04] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P3310144 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P3310144
[07:13] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P3610098 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P3610098
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[07:47] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03JORIS-2 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=JORIS-2
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[07:55] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_M4940147 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_M4940147
[07:56] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N1730370 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N1730370
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[09:07] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BSS18 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BSS18
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[09:32] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P1750648 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P1750648
[09:39] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_M4950066 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_M4950066
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[09:50] <PB0AHX-Herman> !flights
[09:50] <SpacenearUS> 03PB0AHX-Herman: There are no flights currently :(
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[10:43] <Raptor> Hello, I am going to be attempting a High Altitude Balloon launch from north wales to try and set a couple of records. I am looking for volunteers who would like to be a witness for the launch on the 28th of this month from Latitude 53.285972 Longitude -3.8516618. I am hoping for a midday launch time. If you would like to be a witness please contact me many thanks Mark
[10:47] <Darkside> what kind of records?
[10:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N2040493 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N2040493
[10:57] HarveyPwca (~HarveyPwc@99-89-221-139.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net) joined #highaltitude.
[10:58] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P2630534 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P2630534
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[11:04] <Raptor> Guiness world records
[11:05] <Darkside> altitude?
[11:06] <Darkside> using a reeeeeeealy big balloon im guessing
[11:06] <Raptor> for instance "Highest Altitude video of a balloon burst" and "Highest Altitude tribute to Spacex Tesla Starman from a balloon"
[11:06] <Raptor> biggest i could get my hands on :-)
[11:06] <Darkside> and you've launched/tracked a smaller balloon before to be sure of your tracker?
[11:07] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 038 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
[11:07] <Raptor> yep
[11:07] <Darkside> good...
[11:16] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03IU5IKB - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IU5IKB
[11:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P1750701 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P1750701
[11:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3910263 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3910263
[11:19] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3730224 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3730224
[11:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4010809 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4010809
[11:29] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_M4950002 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_M4950002
[11:31] <craag> lol not the most accessible launch site..
[11:33] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4720028 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4720028
[11:33] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_L3833748 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_L3833748
[11:34] <Raptor> trying to get the most amount of land for the flight distance :-)
[11:35] <Darkside> oh yeah, you actually want to recover it...
[11:35] <Darkside> that makes finding a day with a decent prediction much harder...
[11:36] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PI0-BZ after 0316 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PI0-BZ
[11:36] <mattbrejza> are the records people happy with you using your own electronics to measure altitude?
[11:36] <mattbrejza> wouldnt take much to add the line alt = alt*1.1
[11:37] <Darkside> mattbrejza: mexihab
[11:37] <Darkside> or basing it off pressure from a faulty pressure sensor
[11:40] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4411044 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4411044
[11:42] <mattbrejza> even using GPS, it gives two different altitudes (above sea level, above geoid?)
[11:51] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_M2253251 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_M2253251
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[11:53] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4350749 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4350749
[11:54] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03N1YIP-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N1YIP-11
[11:56] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03AA1PJ-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AA1PJ-11
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[12:30] <Raptor> have 2 GPS devices which will record altitude for me
[12:32] <Darkside> what devices?
[12:32] <Darkside> apart from the PITS
[12:46] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0720884 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0720884
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[13:03] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_DFM09-17008819 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_DFM09-17008819
[13:04] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BW4_LORA - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BW4_LORA
[13:17] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_M4950084 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_M4950084
[13:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_L1140221 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_L1140221
[13:28] ImaginativeName (6d9488fd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.148.136.253) joined #highaltitude.
[13:28] <ImaginativeName> Hi, are there any UKHAS gmail group admins on here who can approve a couple of post replies for my launch tomorrow?
[13:29] <ImaginativeName> Sorry to be pushy :) Trying to get stuff sorted out before it becomes last-minute
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[13:32] <Raptor> there is a data logger from this site https://www.stratoflights.com/en/shop/datalogger/
[13:32] <ImaginativeName> It's approved now, thanks to whoever that was
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[15:06] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KG5IFR after 0314 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KG5IFR
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[15:11] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_M4950004 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_M4950004
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[16:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PITS2 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PITS2
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[16:40] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP6ZWR-12 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6ZWR-12
[16:41] <ImaginativeName> Hi, I'm the one current spamming up the ukhas mailing list
[16:41] <ImaginativeName> @daveake are you online?
[16:42] <ImaginativeName> If so, what bandwidth/s.f. would you recommend?
[16:43] <ImaginativeName> 125/10? 125/12?
[16:43] <daveake> I wouldn't go wider bandwidth that 62kHz
[16:43] <ImaginativeName> Oh right
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[16:43] <daveake> Either do that @ 10% DC, or 20.8kHz BW continuous
[16:43] <ImaginativeName> I was going off the chart on this site:
[16:43] <ImaginativeName> http://cpham.perso.univ-pau.fr/LORA/RPIgateway.html
[16:43] <ImaginativeName> :b
[16:44] <daveake> I'm going from experience flying them :)
[16:44] <ImaginativeName> :)
[16:44] <ImaginativeName> So is it the smaller the bandwidth, the better range but the slower throughput?
[16:44] <daveake> I've used 250kHz BW @ 5mW up in the 868/9MHz bands, and the range is maybe 50 miles
[16:45] <daveake> Yes
[16:45] <daveake> Whereas 20.8kHz BW will get you 400 miles+
[16:45] <ImaginativeName> Mhm
[16:45] <daveake> at high altitude when the curvature doesn't get in the way, that is
[16:46] <ImaginativeName> and which spreading factor would you recommend? 12 and then tune from there with bandwidth?
[16:47] <daveake> This is just telemetry of position and other slowly changing stuff ?
[16:47] <ImaginativeName> yes
[16:47] <ImaginativeName> some other data but I don't need it at high rate
[16:47] <daveake> For that I use : Explicit mode, Error coding 4:8, Bandwidth 20.8kHz, SF 11, Low data rate optimize on
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[16:48] <ImaginativeName> Thanks, will attempt to set to that
[16:48] <daveake> One thing to be aware of - at that low bandwidth, you might need to tune your receiver up/down 2-4kHz so it matches the transmitter.
[16:49] <daveake> The need to be within 4kHz of each other, and sometimes aren't (cheap crystals)
[16:49] <ImaginativeName> Right, because they're not exactly the nominal value
[16:49] <ImaginativeName> yeah ok
[16:49] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP6ZWR-13 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6ZWR-13
[16:49] <daveake> nope
[16:49] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DC2EH-6 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DC2EH-6
[16:49] <daveake> I've recently added a PPM correct to my code so people can calibrate their tx and rx kit
[16:50] <daveake> So, get yourself legal and choose settings with better range than you have. Don't go doing the UKHAS format at this late stage.
[16:50] <ImaginativeName> I already did :b
[16:50] <daveake> Not unless you like risk :D
[16:50] <daveake> lol
[16:51] <ImaginativeName> I like risk but I also like not being the only person tracking :)
[16:51] <daveake> heh yes good point
[16:51] <daveake> I'd help but as you're heading east, and I'm out west behind a hill, I wont be much help
[16:52] <mattbrejza> are you transmitting ascii sentences at least? (and so persumally will show up on peoples recievers even if not automatically uploaded)
[16:53] <ImaginativeName> yes
[16:53] <ImaginativeName> example sentence:
[16:53] <ImaginativeName> $$BW4_LORA, 286, 0.02703, 51.5133, -0.9130, 104, 24.25, 17.9, 129.5, -2110*2103\n
[16:54] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0720888 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0720888
[16:56] <daveake> Should be OK then. You don't need/want all the spaces really.
[16:59] <ImaginativeName> No. I'll get rid of them if I have time, I still have them for padding from when I needed all the fields to be fixed width. I'm scared of touching them now :s
[17:01] <ImaginativeName> @daveake, the library I'm using doesn't have direct access to a 'low data rate' optimisation and I can't find it in the datasheet.
[17:01] <ImaginativeName> Any chance you could point me the right direction?
[17:01] <daveake> Righto, I just hacked a LoRa transmitter to just send your sample sentence, received by my gateway, and it updated the map, so you should be fine :)
[17:01] <ImaginativeName> Oh great thank you :)
[17:02] <ImaginativeName> It's working on my end too
[17:02] <daveake> Might be automatic ... iut's needed below a certain data rate only
[17:02] <ImaginativeName> ok
[17:02] <daveake> So the lib may well do it by checking the rate
[17:02] <ImaginativeName> if it doesn't, is that very bad for my range?
[17:02] <daveake> Anyway receivers can disable it if needed
[17:02] <daveake> erm dunno
[17:03] <ImaginativeName> hang on I'll check the source
[17:04] <ImaginativeName> data rate is a function of sf/bw correct?
[17:04] <ImaginativeName> not something independently set
[17:04] <daveake> yes
[17:04] <ImaginativeName> k
[17:05] <daveake> it's bit 3 of REG_MODEM_CONFIG3
[17:05] <ImaginativeName> right
[17:06] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03DRAGINO after 0310 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DRAGINO
[17:06] <ImaginativeName> obmile node vs static node?
[17:06] <ImaginativeName> *mobile
[17:07] <daveake> Not heard of that
[17:07] <ImaginativeName> (that's what the data sheet gives me for regModemConfig3)
[17:07] <ImaginativeName> http://www.hoperf.com/upload/rf/RFM95_96_97_98W.pdf
[17:07] <daveake> hmm
[17:07] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD4BFP-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD4BFP-11
[17:09] <daveake> Never trust HopeRF documentation :)
[17:09] <daveake> Semtech one doesn't say "mobile"
[17:09] <daveake> LowDataRateOptimize rw 0x00 0 à Disabled
[17:09] <daveake> 1 à Enabled; mandated for when the symbol length exceeds 16ms
[17:09] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3710561 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3710561
[17:10] <ImaginativeName> ...ah
[17:11] <mattbrejza> i think it works mostly fine without that set though
[17:11] <ImaginativeName> please can you link the semtech doc?
[17:11] <mattbrejza> and only does something on rx?
[17:16] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Kd4bfp_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Kd4bfp_chase
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[17:31] <daveake> mattbrejza: Quite possible ... it's been a while
[17:32] <mattbrejza> i checked my code and that bits set all the time, whatever the throughput
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[17:37] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4410288 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4410288
[17:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N2310533 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N2310533
[17:40] <trickv> .whereis HIRFW-6
[17:40] <SpacenearUS> 03trickv: I haven't got a clue
[17:40] <trickv> .whereis HIRF-6
[17:40] <SpacenearUS> 03trickv: I haven't got a clue
[17:41] <trickv> :(
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[17:59] <SA6BSS-Mike> trickv: http://www.scientificballoonsolutions.com/news/
[18:00] <SA6BSS-Mike> this is me soldering up a hab pcb , worked great!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxhmD451w34&feature=youtu.be
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[18:12] <PE2BZ> Mike are you single ;-) ?
[18:14] <SA6BSS-Mike> She was at work :) , try to do this kind of things when shes not at home , hehe
[18:14] <SA6BSS-Mike> I bought this pan specificly for this kind of stuf :), its min , all mine, and hers ofc if theres pancaces on the menu :)
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[18:15] <PE2BZ> Those are no raisins in that pancake, are they :-)
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[18:30] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BW6_LORA - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BW6_LORA
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[18:33] <swisscheese66> Hi,
[18:35] <swisscheese66> several days ago I already asked the community, if there is any experience with UV-sensors. We would like to measure the UV-B- and UV-C-radiation during the flight. In a mission last year we already tried it out with Vernier-sensors, but this experiment failed (I guess due to electrical instability of the sensors).
[18:36] <mattbrejza> use a UV led as a photosensor
[18:36] <mattbrejza> wont tell you the difference between UV-A/B/C though
[18:36] <bertrik> I did a kind of experiment with two uv sensors on a hab, one with a cover glass and one without
[18:36] <bertrik> but I never really got to analysis of the data
[18:37] <bertrik> rotation of the balloon made the measurements hard to interpret
[18:38] <bertrik> the idea was that the cover glass stops the uv for one sensor with all other properties (temperature etc.) being mostly the same
[18:39] <bertrik> If I remember correctly, I got the two UV diodes from aliexpress
[18:40] <bertrik> for photodiodes, there's a general circuit where you use a diode reverse biased, then the current is proportional to the illumination and the circuit converts that to a voltage
[18:44] <swisscheese66> Thansk a lot for the fast answers. My idea is, if it is possible to measure UV-B and UV-C separately (!!), it should be possible to see changes due to the ozonelayer. What is your opinion? @bertrik: what is the reason, that you couldn't analyze the data?
[18:45] <bertrik> swisscheese66: laziness mostly ...
[18:45] <bertrik> I could have just taken a ratio of the two measurements perhaps, to cancel out the effect of the rotation of the hab
[18:46] <swisscheese66> @bertrik: yeah, I know this phenomena: you got tons of datas from a flight, be happy with the successfull flight and then... :-))
[18:48] <bertrik> swisscheese66: yes, the photos are something to be easily amazed at and shared with other people, the cold hard science takes actual effort to work out
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[18:50] <swisscheese66> @bertrik: thinking of the problem with the roatation of the payload (which I experienced as well): if you install the sensors on a "arm", this should miminze these effects???
[18:52] <bertrik> perhaps, but I don't know how you can solve that with an arm exactly
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[18:53] <bertrik> I think the problem wasn't so much shadow from the balloon, but mostly just having the uv diodes pointing in all directions due to rotation so with hugely varying illumination
[18:54] <bertrik> maybe some kind of dome over the sensor would reduce the directivity a bit, but I don't know if something like that exists for UV
[18:56] <bertrik> I think I used this one https://www.ebay.com/itm/REYAX-UVI-01-Ultraviolet-rays-detector-UVI-UV-sensor-/180846474255
[18:57] <bertrik> this also looks interesting, with the opamp circuit on a board https://www.electroschematics.com/11509/guva-s12sd-uv-sensor-module-circuit/
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[19:00] <swisscheese66> Thanks a lot, that looks promising. In the moment, I'm testing in my high-school a sensor from Vishay, but I already feel, that this sensor is not suitable for my goals.
[19:20] <PE2BZ> Does anyone ever cloned an SD card from a Pi Zero W to a Pi Zero ? Would you expect that to work ¨out of the boz¨?
[19:23] <swisscheese66> @PE2BZ: I'm working with a lot of Pi-systems and have quite good expereinces with the sofwatre "USB-Image". I never expereinced any problems cloning a SD-card.
[19:24] <daveake> Yes should "just work"
[19:25] <daveake> Only issue would be where the target board isn't supported by the original O/S. i.e. new card old O/S
[19:25] <PE2BZ> tnx, me neither sofar between A, B, B+,3 and Pi Zero W. Now the first Pi Zero withou W does act strange with SSH, lots of garbage character, cannot set locale , cannot upgrade raspi-config and that type of errors
[19:33] <ImaginativeName> ok, so I've updated a few things, including my payload config doc, so is there any chance someone could approve this new flight doc:
[19:33] <ImaginativeName> eb8a24c5676334805bc31d343888cbc6
[19:34] <ImaginativeName> ?
[19:34] <ImaginativeName> hold on this is the wrong chat
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[21:45] <trickv> SA6BSS-Mike: thanks for the link. I guess it's journey may finally have come to an end.
[21:45] <SA6BSS-Mike> they all come down in the end but it was good long ride :)
[21:47] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_DFM09-17031146 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_DFM09-17031146
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[22:12] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IU5IKB after 039 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IU5IKB
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[22:27] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KG5IFR after 037 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KG5IFR
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[22:56] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0621003 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0621003
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[23:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0610241 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0610241
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[23:07] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 039 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
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[23:17] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4010507 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4010507
[23:17] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P1750716 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P1750716
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[23:19] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3710902 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3710902
[23:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N2430441 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N2430441
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[23:22] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0940519 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0940519
[23:23] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3910031 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3910031
[23:25] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3710562 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3710562
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[23:33] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0420111 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0420111
[23:34] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_L2823608 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_L2823608
[23:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4420129 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4420129
[00:00] --- Fri Sep 14 2018