highaltitude.log.20180815

[00:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N2350083 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N2350083
[00:04] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_L2823631 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_L2823631
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[01:03] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N2240394 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N2240394
[01:06] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N2440250 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N2440250
[01:13] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0650484 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0650484
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[03:27] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_DFM09-18020932 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_DFM09-18020932
[03:38] Nick change: nullcone_ -> nullcone
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[04:16] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P3110871 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P3110871
[04:23] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P3130261 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P3130261
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[04:54] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P1040386 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P1040386
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[05:16] <SA6BSS-Mike> VORTEX up
[05:22] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4820011 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4820011
[05:31] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N0840270 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N0840270
[05:45] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N2240395 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N2240395
[05:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4410418 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4410418
[05:55] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03REL_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=REL_chase
[06:01] <SM0ULC-David> koll
[06:01] <SM0ULC-David> asch
[06:01] <SM0ULC-David> cool
[06:01] <SA6BSS-Mike> he
[06:01] <SA6BSS-Mike> gm
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[06:39] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_M4010246 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_M4010246
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[07:12] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P3130859 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P3130859
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[07:29] <Cheeseman> Air quality went down even more during the day today
[07:29] <Cheeseman> BLEH
[07:31] <bertrik> Cheeseman: are you measuring it? and how?
[07:34] <Cheeseman> Stand by for a link..
[07:35] <fsphil> can I sit?
[07:35] <Cheeseman> https://fortress.wa.gov/ecy/enviwa/Stationinfo.aspx?ST_ID=194
[07:36] <Cheeseman> it was 187 when I got to work, now it's at 196
[07:36] <fsphil> ooch
[07:36] <Cheeseman> It smells like campfire inside the building and we have ventilation system on recirculate with new filters
[07:37] <Cheeseman> We're leaking air at all of the doors obviously
[07:38] <Cheeseman> After work yesterday morning I decided to drive up the hill to one of the repeater sites to see if I could "See over" the smoke layer but it was worse at higher altitude
[07:38] <Cheeseman> still cool outside too, only around 75F
[07:39] Action: fsphil kicks SIbot
[07:39] <Cheeseman> It's the beginning of the end, evil has taken the throne
[07:39] <fsphil> 24c. that's not cool, that's my peak summer temperature :)
[07:39] <bertrik> I run a sensor for airborne particulate matter and I'm participating in the luftdaten.info project
[07:40] <Cheeseman> That's cool
[07:40] <bertrik> I'd also like an NOx sensor but they're much more expensive
[07:40] <Cheeseman> It was 106F last friday here
[07:40] <fsphil> bit of a fib, we actually got to 30c this year
[07:40] <fsphil> but that's very rare
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[07:42] <Cheeseman> The joke in the area I live is "If it's not frozen, it's on fire"
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[07:42] <Cheeseman> We seasonally transition between a state of solid and a state of gas
[07:49] <Cheeseman> Cool, 20 tickets for failed power supply and only 10 spares in stock
[07:49] <Cheeseman> Logistics team is gonna love me this morning..
[07:50] <Cheeseman> Time to go load up a wheel barrow..
[07:50] <SA6BSS-Mike> Looks like VORTEX is at 30000m floating and waiting for release of paylad
[07:54] <SA6BSS-Mike> thats cool "The flight will use a 110,000 cubic metre zero pressure balloon to lift our 800 kg test vehicle to an altitude of 29 km"
[07:55] <bertrik> wow, 800 kg
[07:55] <bertrik> that's a lot of helium
[07:55] <SA6BSS-Mike> it is!!
[07:57] <M0TVU> Morning - de M0TVU - Is Oculus being launched today?
[07:58] <Cheeseman> dang who can afford that much lift gas at once?
[07:58] <Cheeseman> Must have some good funding?
[07:59] <daveake> Well it's a test for a Mars lander parachute, so yeah, probably :)
[08:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03OCULUS - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=OCULUS
[08:01] <Cheeseman> Oh didn't realize that was what you were talking about
[08:01] <Cheeseman> In that case, helium is definitely going to be cheaper than typical rocket fuels
[08:02] <SA6BSS-Mike> it does have a 70cm rtty tracker onboard, M0JCU is involved
[08:02] <Cheeseman> Not sure what they're planning to use for the Delta 5 when it gets down to go time, but the last few tests just used HydrOx / Hydrazine
[08:03] <fsphil> that balloon could probably lift my car
[08:03] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N2120021 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N2120021
[08:03] <fsphil> I'd be happy to see it dropped from 29km
[08:03] <daveake> without parachute ?
[08:03] <SA6BSS-Mike> if not this one should do , 1,8ton payload https://www.sscspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Featured_OlimpoLaunch_Svalbard-1200x480.jpg
[08:03] <SA6BSS-Mike> thats quite diffrent from launching a PITS :)
[08:04] <fsphil> I wonder if it would go supersonic
[08:04] <fsphil> fastest clio ever
[08:04] <daveake> Something for Top Gear perhaps ... "we dropped this Toyota pickup from Spaaaace and it still worked"
[08:04] <fsphil> hah
[08:04] <Cheeseman> lol
[08:04] <SA6BSS-Mike> haha, good one, they should absolutely do it!!
[08:05] <fsphil> somewhere in the world, a health and safety officer just shivered
[08:05] <Cheeseman> You know somebody is just too powerful when they deliberately shoot a brand new car into space and put it into a solar orbit..
[08:05] <SA6BSS-Mike> they shouls realy take a humvee
[08:05] <SA6BSS-Mike> and drop
[08:05] <Cheeseman> Just hope he doesn't decide one day to be evil
[08:06] <fsphil> he's already evil, he's trying to invade another planet
[08:06] <fsphil> and has a crazy army of nutty followers
[08:06] <SA6BSS-Mike> Marsians be ware!
[08:07] <Cheeseman> Wait wait wait
[08:07] <Cheeseman> Elon Musk wants to go to Mars?
[08:07] <Cheeseman> I JUST found out about TES6 and now this..
[08:08] <Cheeseman> Not sure how much more good news my bowels can handle today and I don't have a spare set of drawers with me
[08:10] <Cheeseman> ...That was a joke
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[08:20] <Cheeseman> Maybe this is why I get kicked out of channels
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[08:20] <Cheeseman> I try to be funny and everybody acts like they're suddenly "Above" that type of humor.
[08:21] <Cheeseman> You're not superior to me! :D
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[08:35] <gonzo_> if it were top gear, dropping a pickup from space, there would be no problem of safety. As they would be bullseyeing a caravan with it
[08:37] <Cheeseman> Hey Gonzo?
[08:38] <Cheeseman> Do you know what happens when something is "Dropped from space"?
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[08:38] <Cheeseman> It vaporizes as it inters the atmosphere
[08:38] <Cheeseman> Most of it*
[08:38] <fsphil> only if it's moving fast enough
[08:39] <Cheeseman> Wondering how you're going to get to "Space" without moving
[08:39] <daveake> Yeah I've had the old "don't your payloads burn up during re-entry?" question a couple of times
[08:39] <Cheeseman> Even if you go straight up, the planet is turning beneath you, so you're still going to have some speed
[08:39] <fsphil> any suborbital flight straight up will have a moment where it's not moving
[08:39] <fsphil> relative to the ground
[08:39] <PE2BZ> Just send my wife out of bed to make coffee ?
[08:40] <PE2BZ> That´s how I get into space ;-)
[08:40] <Cheeseman> You have to send your wife to make coffee?
[08:40] <Cheeseman> I'm woken up every day for work with a cup, no questions asked
[08:40] <Cheeseman> It kicks ass
[08:42] <Cheeseman> Anyway back to the subject..
[08:42] <Cheeseman> Within atmosphere, there's a limit to how fast an object can fall
[08:42] <Cheeseman> We call it terminal velocity
[08:42] <SA6BSS-Mike> and you wifa name is nespresso ?
[08:43] <Cheeseman> And it doesn't generate enough friction to make things burn up
[08:43] <Cheeseman> But you're also not "In space"
[08:43] <Cheeseman> Technically the ISS isn't in space. It's close though
[08:44] <Cheeseman> Still enough atmospheric "Stuff" up there to gradually slow the station down
[08:44] <Cheeseman> But it is going fast enough that it will burn up from excessive friction
[08:45] <Cheeseman> SA6BSS-Mike: I don't have a wife, she's more of a best friend.
[08:48] <SA6BSS-Mike> the iss moving in 27000 km/h and would burn up , but if we put an object at the samlt 408km at 0km/h and let the earth pull it in would it survive survive re-entry?
[08:48] <SA6BSS-Mike> survivr = not burn up
[08:49] <bertrik> :P
[08:49] <SA6BSS-Mike> *survive
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[08:50] <Cheeseman> You mean 0km/h relative to the ground?
[08:51] <Cheeseman> If that's what you mean then yes, it would make it to the ground. The stop would likely kill it though
[08:51] <SA6BSS-Mike> yep, not that I think it would mather much
[08:52] <Cheeseman> Unless it was a Nokia 5160
[08:52] <Cheeseman> in which case it might go through the planet
[08:52] <SA6BSS-Mike> as usual, not the speed that kills you it the breaks
[08:52] <Cheeseman> unless you're going at near orbital speed
[08:52] <SA6BSS-Mike> dont belive we had that model over here, I had 5110
[08:52] <Cheeseman> Then literally the air kills you lol
[08:53] <SA6BSS-Mike> I love the film Gravity, man I had high blood presure after that move!
[08:54] <Cheeseman> We were just talking about that around this time yesterday lol
[08:55] <SA6BSS-Mike> yeah, I eyeballed through the loogs and saw there was some cinema referance
[08:56] <Cheeseman> It was a good movie but so many obvious holes..
[08:57] <SA6BSS-Mike> would ptrobably not been a good move if al matched up
[08:57] <SA6BSS-Mike> you where asking about some light payload, yresterday, here is one of my aprs floaters https://imgur.com/NM1BDbO
[08:58] <Cheeseman> Yeah, nobody would have watched it
[08:58] <Cheeseman> Where is the battery you cheater
[08:59] <SA6BSS-Mike> no battery solar only, for floaters there is only othree things that mathers, weight , weight and weight
[08:59] <SA6BSS-Mike> thats the total weight with antenna and all
[09:00] <Cheeseman> So if it happens to get into a current that keeps it in the dark for several hours.. You just can't track it?
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[09:00] <SA6BSS-Mike> ofc not, just as the solar is above 17deg
[09:01] <gonzo_> what's the red wire? The TX antenna?
[09:01] <SA6BSS-Mike> but it would likly to stay in the air for longer, so you have to ask you this , would you like it to fly for 15 days 24/7 or for 8 weeks 10 hours a day
[09:01] <Cheeseman> So you couldn't even add a supercap? too heavy?
[09:02] <SA6BSS-Mike> I think so, but its depends on what balloon you are using
[09:02] <Cheeseman> Personally I'm aiming for 100k feet and "Recoverable"
[09:02] <SA6BSS-Mike> SA6BSS-Mike: gps antenna 1/4 wave
[09:02] <SA6BSS-Mike> gonzo_: gps antenna 1/4 wave
[09:03] <gonzo_> ok
[09:04] <Cheeseman> How much does the orientation of the TX antenna matter?
[09:04] <Cheeseman> I'm starting to wonder if it's less critical than I thought
[09:05] <gonzo_> vertical has an omni-ish pattern. Making horisotal antennas that have ombu pattern is more difficulot
[09:06] <gonzo_> also vertical omni receiving antennas are more available and pre-existing in ham stations
[09:06] <gonzo_> ombu=omni
[09:06] <Cheeseman> I feel like Nigel is going to get irritated when he reads the logs because these are questions I've already asked him too
[09:07] <Cheeseman> gonzo_: you talk about antennas like they can't be made out of anything conductive
[09:07] <gonzo_> if you have a poor pattern with nulls, you get fading as payloads spin
[09:07] <Cheeseman> I have never purchased an antenna
[09:08] <Cheeseman> I guess it would somewhat depend on the payload, weather you need to be in constant contact with it or not
[09:08] <gonzo_> erm, ask that question again?
[09:09] <Cheeseman> I was asking how much antenna orientation matters
[09:09] <Cheeseman> Pointing your antenna straight up and down will give you a null straight up and down
[09:09] <gonzo_> it depends on the protocol you use. Can it cope with fading/dropouts at the spin rates expected
[09:09] <Cheeseman> Have you ever worked an FM satellite? :)
[09:10] <gonzo_> it was the question about condustive materials. didn't understand what you were getting at
[09:11] <Cheeseman> oh, you were talking about pre-existing antennas or availability
[09:11] <Cheeseman> All you need is some wire, a tape measure and a calculator
[09:13] <Cheeseman> Maybe I misunderstood your statement
[09:13] <gonzo_> overview: modt real world antennas will ahve nulls. You engineer them to be as minimal impact as poss. So for habs, an upside down groundplane 1/4 wave is good. As it is simple to reproduce with limited RF knowledge. The nulls are mostly directly underneath, so minimal effect. and being vertical it matches the majority of existing omni antennas that the ham comminitu have
[09:13] <gonzo_> most
[09:15] <Cheeseman> I've got a little more of a complicated antenna in mind
[09:15] <gonzo_> you could make somethimng like a 'big wheel' antenna to give horizontal pol. But they are touchy to get to work well. then you need horizontal pol receiving antenna, which will mostly be a yagi. Whioch means it needs to be steered. And the complication goes up to the point, few casual rx stations will do it
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[09:16] <Cheeseman> Why not use a moxon?
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[09:17] <Cheeseman> hanging off the bottom of the module pointing down, no nulls under the vehicle
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[09:17] <Cheeseman> then, when it comes back down and the antenna is laying on the ground, you'll still have acceptable pattern to locate it
[09:18] <bertrik> I can't really remember seeing people here complain about antenna null problems
[09:18] <Cheeseman> Theyre's probably no antenna null problem
[09:18] <Cheeseman> I like to overthink things
[09:18] <craag> you want the most gain out to the horizon for long-distance tracking
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[09:19] <craag> when it's directly overhead your path loss is lower, so that can mitigate the effect of the null
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[09:20] <Cheeseman> That makes sense craag
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[09:23] <Cheeseman> I guess with this kind of thing I just tend to ignore what is traditionally done and try and find a new way to do it
[09:23] <Cheeseman> that seems to make things more complicated or less practical
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[09:24] <craag> trying new ways is always encouraged :)
[09:24] <Cheeseman> I mean if weight and size weren't issues, there are all sorts of things you might consider
[09:24] <Cheeseman> Like a pair of QFH antennas pointing up and down or something even weirder
[09:25] <Cheeseman> A lot could probably be remedied by using a slightly more powerful transmitter
[09:25] <craag> qfh antennas have been used, I think they worked reasonably well, but not better enough to justify the effort/weight
[09:25] <Cheeseman> QFH are a pain in the arse to get dialed in
[09:25] <bertrik> what I often wonder, is why HABs are not using a network like the-things-network more
[09:25] <gonzo_> we are back to the simple repeatability of construction for non RF savvy people
[09:25] <Cheeseman> if you're making it by hand..
[09:26] <bertrik> it's an existing network, free to use, every TTN gateway can be a HAB receiver
[09:26] <Cheeseman> bertrik: might have something to do with communication laws
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[09:26] <craag> bertrik: what's the telemetry updat rate though?
[09:26] <Cheeseman> There are already a few illegal things on orbit that are essentially IOT devices
[09:27] <craag> last flight I did I wanted every ~2s.
[09:27] <bertrik> you don't even have to announce flight and get everyone ready with their antennas and radios set to a specific frequency and modulation
[09:27] <bertrik> craag: the telemetry rate isn't that fast indeed, I think you need to honour 1% duty cycle
[09:28] <Cheeseman> That's why I need to be able to recover my HAB
[09:28] <gonzo_> also, the extra weight and size, of a moxon/qfh would not be a penalty worth paying, on a HAB payload. And I doubt that the benifits would be noticeable in a real world applicaytion
[09:28] <craag> for long-distance floaters that's probably a not a bad call
[09:28] <Cheeseman> Because I want to store more data than I transmit
[09:28] <bertrik> I'd have to calculate that, but with the tracker that I use to test the network, you can send a packet basically every 15 seconds or so
[09:29] <bertrik> the band that TTN uses is a license-free band in europe at least
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[09:30] <craag> 868 I guess?
[09:30] <Cheeseman> License free bands need to gooooo
[09:30] <craag> that's all we have for hab in the uk Cheeseman
[09:30] <Cheeseman> They always end up getting ruined by disrespectful operators
[09:31] <Cheeseman> not true
[09:31] <bertrik> craag: yes, it's at 868 MHz
[09:31] <Cheeseman> hab can use just about any frequency, provided you have the antenna for it and depending on allowed mode of operation
[09:32] <Cheeseman> hab is not a radio transmission type, its a scientific payload
[09:32] <russss> *legally* the only bands you can use for HAB is license-exempt.
[09:32] <craag> ^^
[09:32] <russss> without some kind of bespoke license
[09:32] <Cheeseman> Then get a license lol
[09:32] <Cheeseman> it's easy
[09:32] <russss> what license?
[09:32] <Cheeseman> I know really stupid people with operator's licenses
[09:33] <craag> ham radio is not allowed airborne in the uk fyi
[09:33] <Cheeseman> ham radio operators license
[09:33] <Cheeseman> WHAT
[09:33] <russss> the license which says "The Radio Equipment may not be established or used in any Aircraft or Airborne Vehicle."
[09:33] <Cheeseman> My brain just shit it's pants
[09:33] <Cheeseman> wow
[09:33] <Cheeseman> that is profoundly stupid
[09:33] <Cheeseman> well
[09:33] <Cheeseman> no
[09:33] <craag> we live on a small island with several neighbours
[09:34] <russss> (come to think of it wtf does "established" mean in that clause)
[09:34] <Cheeseman> They just don't want to deal with licensing and things in flight
[09:34] <craag> airborne RF doesn't obey borders well :)
[09:34] <Cheeseman> hmm I think we're missing some important data here
[09:36] <bertrik> last year around this time, there was a HAB flight in the netherlands using LoRa/TTN, I wrote a kind of gateway for it to put the payload and the TTN receivers receiving it on the spacenear map
[09:37] <mfa298> I think from the discussions a few years ago the main issue was the CAA who would have to ok it for some reason (/politics)
[09:37] <bertrik> we do have a lot of TTN receivers in the netherlands though
[09:38] <bertrik> around the dutch/german border the HAB reached its maximum height and was then received by a TTN gateway in Poland, the TTN people were thrilled about that
[09:38] <mfa298> but then the restriction on having to use license exempt bands with their low power limits has probably driven a bunch of interesting innovation (otherwise we might have just all used APRS and low update rates)
[09:38] <Cheeseman> M0DNY.. is that fsphil?
[09:38] <craag> Cheeseman: no that's me
[09:38] <Cheeseman> ok
[09:39] <Cheeseman> found something you posted at HAB | AMSAT UK
[09:39] <Cheeseman> " Callsign: 1900 (year of construction of the Marconi Wireless Station)  Calling Beacon: 433.650MHz.100 LoRa Mode 5  Telemetry: 434.300 MHz LoRa 20.8K SF10 4/5 Explicit
[09:39] <Cheeseman> So was this done without the requirement of a license?
[09:40] <mfa298> parts of 433/434 is also ISM here
[09:40] <craag> those are in the license-exempt band at ~434MHz, maximum power 10mW, <=25KHz channels
[09:40] <craag> see ofcom IR2030
[09:40] <Cheeseman> God that's so WEIRD :-O
[09:41] <craag> and yet that sent positions every 2s and was received 400km away, why do I need anything more :)
[09:41] <russss> btw if you want to abolish license-exempt bands then say goodbye to wifi ;)
[09:41] <russss> (tbh maybe wifi would be better if everyone needed a license)
[09:41] <craag> +1 :D
[09:42] <Cheeseman> Yeah wifi is garbage and I only use it when I have to
[09:43] <Cheeseman> Having said that, it's entirely too late to abolish license free bands
[09:43] <Cheeseman> Everybody poops all over the 70cm band
[09:43] <craag> yes the amateur repeaters are a nuisance
[09:43] <craag> :P
[09:44] <Cheeseman> lol
[09:45] <Cheeseman> sure that's what I meant
[09:45] <Cheeseman> definitely not talking about all of the part 15 garbage from china
[09:46] <Cheeseman> Honestly though I'm not sure what the FCC gets out of their chairs for anymore
[09:46] <Cheeseman> Listen to any HF band in the united states long enough and you'll see what I mean
[09:46] <Cheeseman> it's the same guys from five years ago still ruining the bands for everybody
[09:46] <russss> oh right yeah presumably you have all this chinese stuff designed for the european market turning up on 433MHz
[09:47] <russss> it's probably the same here on 915 tbh
[09:47] <Cheeseman> I wonder how much that's hurting DMR radio
[09:48] <Cheeseman> Seems like a waste of time to me and perhaps more of a waste of time in UK
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[09:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N0840275 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N0840275
[09:50] <Cheeseman> Haven't paid much attention to DMR though because it's like "Look, we reinvented IRLP and raised the price for no reason"
[09:52] <bertrik> so, we can't use 868 MHz / TTN / LoRa for HAB because license free ruins everything?
[09:52] <bertrik> you can be bitter about things, or just accept the things you can't change anyway
[09:53] <russss> bandplans are hard I think
[09:53] <russss> is the main thing
[09:53] <bertrik> I see a lot of not-invented-here attitude here and preferring to keep on doing things the way we used to, to be honest
[09:54] <russss> I'm sure there's a much more efficient way you could organise the spectrum if you started today
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[09:57] <Cheeseman> Guess it just depends on how you want to look at things
[09:58] <Cheeseman> I'd expect a license free band to be un-policed and possibly unusable at times because of that, maybe it's not much of a problem though
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[09:59] <Cheeseman> Unlicensed bands here are definitely worse than licensed ones. But some of the licensed bands have gotten pretty bad as well
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[09:59] <pe2bz_> bertrik are you familiair with these devices: https://www.makerfabs.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=438&search=maduino
[09:59] <pe2bz_> the 433 MHz version made an ¨out of the box HAB payload¨ with an BME280 and a GPS module
[10:00] Nick change: pe2bz_ -> PE2BZ
[10:01] <bertrik> PE2BZ: no, no that particular one, but I have played a bit with RFM95 and arduino myself
[10:02] <Cheeseman> Extremely long ranges = up to 2km
[10:02] <Cheeseman> Okay
[10:02] <bertrik> looks like a nice board actually, quite inexpensive too
[10:02] <Cheeseman> Definitely would be a lot easier to use than a DRA818
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[10:03] <PE2BZ> It does work well for the LoRa part. Even had it run on solar at the power connector and lipo on the battery connector.
[10:04] <PE2BZ> rtty with the RFM module is bad. Even with a 100 mW powered resistor on the radio chip
[10:04] <Triskel> mmmh
[10:04] <PE2BZ> Last order of 3 arrived with bme sensors and no import tax
[10:10] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SITS-1 after 038 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SITS-1
[10:10] <PE2BZ> bertrik in a newer revision they will add extra gnd and + 3.3 V pads for powering sensors
[10:11] <mfa298> Cheeseman: within ISM the various restrictions mean most issues are fairly localised (I think most of the License Exempt options for 434 are max 10mW)
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[10:12] <fsphil> 10mW or less on 434
[10:12] <PE2BZ> Built together it looks like this: https://photos.app.goo.gl/pX7STDfdhkVJRppM7
[10:13] <mfa298> also the ranges that most radio modules are based on ground mounted setups - once you get it on a balloon that range can increase a lot (I think the rtty record is about 800km for 10mW on 434MHz)
[10:13] <SA6BSS-Mike> would probably buy and build a lora rx if theres aver any habs comes this way with it
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[10:16] <Cheeseman> Yeah i get that, I just thought it was funny that they used "Extremely long range" and later clarified with up to 2km. That's only a long distance if you're missing your shoes and the ground is littered with legos
[10:17] <Cheeseman> Relax, I'm just a noisy American..
[10:17] <fsphil> this sounds like it comes from personal experience
[10:18] <Cheeseman> Legos are nothing compared to puncture vine
[10:19] <fsphil> nature does love to come up with amazing ways to cause pain
[10:19] <mfa298> just lego, try British mains plugs
[10:19] <Cheeseman> yeah no kidding fsphil like everything in Australia lol
[10:20] <AndyEsser> mfa298: I got RTTY at about 500km over the North Sea on 434 once couple years ago
[10:20] <AndyEsser> was very happy with that
[10:20] <AndyEsser> think it was the first flight I tracked after buying my X50 antenna as well - kind of validated the purchase :)
[10:21] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0410241 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0410241
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[10:23] <Cheeseman> Just about everything is venomous or has poisoned spikes and if it doesn't it's still capable of kicking you apart or breathes fire or something else crazy like that
[10:23] <bertrik> puncture vine, is that the seed with 4 thorns, one always pointing straight up?
[10:23] <Cheeseman> Yeah bertrik
[10:23] <Cheeseman> Nature's caltrops
[10:23] <fsphil> I was in australia for a while, didn't see a single spider
[10:23] <AndyEsser> they saw you :P
[10:23] <Cheeseman> And my living room carpet is the same color as the seeds when they're dry
[10:23] <fsphil> I think it's all a myth to scare tourists :)
[10:24] <bertrik> I hated those when I was in Australia and rode a bicycle to the university every day
[10:24] <Cheeseman> well it worked on me fsphil
[10:24] <Cheeseman> I used to want to go check out australia
[10:24] <fsphil> I saw some real big spiders in a zoo there
[10:24] <gonzo_> zoo or loo
[10:24] <Cheeseman> but thanks to the magic of the science channel, everything is deadly and the hospital is always two hours away.
[10:25] <fsphil> zoo, but the zoo did have a loo
[10:25] <gonzo_> sounds like a tribute to Dr Zeuse
[10:25] <PE2BZ> Can someone press the release button for Vortex1 ? I am curious about the descent rate....
[10:25] <fsphil> BURST!
[10:25] <bertrik> Australia was great, friendly people, very nice sights and landscapes, weird fauna
[10:25] <fsphil> that sometimes works
[10:26] <Cheeseman> the loo at the zoo is where you go poo?
[10:26] <gonzo_> or poo yourself if you see the spiders
[10:26] <fsphil> I flew to the loo at the zoo, after having too much brew
[10:27] <PE2BZ> !burst
[10:27] <PE2BZ> No luck either....
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[10:27] <Cheeseman> by the way, not sure what you call puncture vine there, but here the seeds are generally called goat heads. I just felt like if I lead with "Goat heads" somebody would take it way off the rails
[10:28] Action: PE2BZ adds 3 gram of extra weight to PI0-BZ by mounting a power toggle switch
[10:28] <Cheeseman> that's a big toggle switch
[10:28] <fsphil> you need some "remove before flight" tags
[10:28] <Cheeseman> That's what I was thinking
[10:29] <Cheeseman> spring loaded contact or something
[10:30] <Cheeseman> My workstation needs a reboot, I'll be off my RDP session for a few..
[10:37] <PE2BZ> It´s coming down now
[10:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SITS-3 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SITS-3
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[10:42] <Cheeseman> Wind must have picked up, air quality slightly improved.. https://fortress.wa.gov/ecy/enviwa/Stationinfo.aspx?ST_ID=194
[10:43] <Cheeseman> brb
[10:43] <Cheeseman> well
[10:43] <Cheeseman> eh nobody cares, I'll be back in some time
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[10:53] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SITS-0 after 034 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SITS-0
[10:55] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0950816 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0950816
[10:56] <Ian_> That's only a long distance if you're missing your shoes and the ground is littered with . . . I was picturing (another close pun in there somewhere) as I read and was actually thinking about missing the slippers . . . (so the pun was micturating) I thought, surely Cheeseman isn't that old ... :)
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[11:03] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0410246 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0410246
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[11:09] <Cheeseman> Hey guys
[11:10] <Cheeseman> Theoretically, do you think a space elevator *Could* work?
[11:10] <Cheeseman> Assuming you anchored it at the equator and attached the other end to something fairly heavy
[11:10] <PE2BZ> 6 m/s for 800 kg is nice....
[11:11] <PE2BZ> oculus has virtual gps now
[11:12] <PE2BZ> 6875 km :-)
[11:12] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P1140395 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P1140395
[11:14] <Cheeseman> PE2BZ: do you have tracking for this 800kg test payload?
[11:15] <PE2BZ> it´s on tracker.habhub.org
[11:16] <PE2BZ> way out of my rx range ;-)
[11:16] <Cheeseman> What's the payload name?
[11:16] <dbrooke> try this https://tracker.habhub.org/#!mt=roadmap&mz=10&qm=All&f=VORTEX1&q=VORTEX1
[11:19] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3820184 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3820184
[11:19] <Cheeseman> Vortex1 seems to be a reused name from a 1973 project to study tornadoes
[11:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0350308 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0350308
[11:22] <Cheeseman> Bummer, I was hoping that clicking the "More details" link would bring up a page with more information on the vehicle but it opened google calendar..
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[11:26] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3820013 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3820013
[11:27] <Cheeseman> Kind of hard to find any information online with the little information I have and the fact that the name "Vortex1" has been used a few times lol
[11:28] <mfa298> there's a bit of stuff on the mailing list - although not much detail
[11:29] <Cheeseman> Hmm, oh well
[11:29] <Cheeseman> 800 kg just doesn't seem like a really common sized payload
[11:30] <Cheeseman> I guess I had made the assumption that it wasn't some top secret project, but maybe they just didn't have any interest to publish a lot of information about it.
[11:30] <mfa298> there's a link from one of the posts to https://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Science/ExoMars/First_test_success_for_largest_Mars_mission_parachute
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[11:31] <Cheeseman> I found this other tracking page though that seems neat --> https://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/payload/VORTEX1#g
[11:31] <fsphil> esa big payload
[11:31] <Cheeseman> Assuming you all know about it already
[11:32] <Cheeseman> It's strange to think they'll be using parachutes to land on mars
[11:33] <Cheeseman> the atmosphere is so thin
[11:34] <fsphil> yeah it's annoying. it's too thin to be useful, too thick to ignore
[11:35] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_L2753794 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_L2753794
[11:35] <Cheeseman> "The second main parachute of 70 kg is folded with its 5 km of cords"
[11:35] <Cheeseman> Those are some very long cords
[11:36] <Cheeseman> It's funny to think about that way fsphil, but the particulars of martian atmosphere do make it quite inconvenient in all aspects lol
[11:36] <Cheeseman> it's like it's there, but only to cause you problems
[11:37] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P1720172 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P1720172
[11:37] <Cheeseman> So they'll use these gigantic parachutes in the same way you might use streamers on earth. Mostly to provide a little drag and help keep the payload decidedly upright so the landing thrusters can fire.
[11:38] <Cheeseman> Sounds like it's going to be something like skycrane but bigger right?
[11:40] <gonzo_> fsphil, I know some people like that
[11:40] <fsphil> hah
[11:43] <Cheeseman> too thin to be useful but too thick to ignore..
[11:43] <Cheeseman> hmm, trying to apply it to a person..
[11:43] <Cheeseman> ..We have different preferences gonzo lol
[11:43] <Cheeseman> I'm gonna go get some lunch on that note
[11:44] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0350352 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0350352
[11:45] <fsphil> venus's pressure makes landing easy. some atmosphic probes survived landing without any chute. shame it's so hot and melty
[11:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4410420 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4410420
[12:11] <AndyEsser> fsphil: and has a big protomolecule crater
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[12:15] <fsphil> ah yes (I haven't watched S3 yet, no spoilers :)
[12:16] <AndyEsser> nor have I
[12:16] <AndyEsser> I rewatched Season 2 finishing this week
[12:16] <AndyEsser> hoping S3 ends up on Netflix next month
[12:16] <AndyEsser> I've tried lots of different ways to actually pay money to watch Season 3
[12:16] <AndyEsser> but everything is bloody geo locked
[12:17] <SpeedEvil> bittorrent isn't.
[12:17] <AndyEsser> I'm not doing that
[12:17] <fsphil> great show, apart from the bit with ships hiding behind the moons of jupiter
[12:17] <fsphil> they got that so wrong
[12:17] <fsphil> I'm curious if S4 ends up on netflix, with the amazon thing
[12:17] <SpeedEvil> I have little compunction about shows I have actually attempted to buy, and been unable.
[12:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P1030523 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P1030523
[12:18] <AndyEsser> fsphil: I have Amazon Prime Video - I'm not too fussed :D
[12:18] <AndyEsser> SpeedEvil: sure - I get that - I just can't be bothered these days
[12:18] <AndyEsser> it's been a long time since I torrented anything
[12:18] <AndyEsser> the advent of Amazon Prime Video, Netflix and Spotify and disposable income means I rarely have a need
[12:19] <fsphil> I'm not doing more than one at a time, it's either netflix or amazon or sky
[12:19] <AndyEsser> O yea - I have sky as well
[12:19] <fsphil> netflix has more stuff I like for the moment
[12:19] <AndyEsser> but I personally get zero use out of that
[12:19] <AndyEsser> that's more for the kids
[12:19] <fsphil> though if Stargate ever comes back, might tempt me back to sky
[12:19] <AndyEsser> fsphil: yea, only recently started using prime for actual video
[12:20] <AndyEsser> but I order enough that the free next day deliver pays for itself :D
[12:20] <fsphil> nice
[12:23] <Cheeseman> Arroz con pollo!
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[12:25] Action: fsphil googles
[12:25] <fsphil> looks nice
[12:25] <Cheeseman> lol
[12:25] <Cheeseman> It was tasty
[12:25] <Cheeseman> This woman who works in security brings home cooked authentic mexican food every day and insists that I have some
[12:26] <Cheeseman> I usually don't eat before or after work because of it
[12:26] <Cheeseman> some ends up being 3/4 of what she brought
[12:26] <Cheeseman> She gets offended if you only have a little bit lol
[12:28] <Cheeseman> It's going to suck if I ever get to transfer off of night shift, no more of Maria's food for me
[12:28] <Cheeseman> I will miss that more than anything else about night shift, not even the 10% differential
[12:30] <fsphil> they don't do a late or night shift where I am, would be nice, far fewer phone calls to deal with, a nice quiet office
[12:31] <gonzo_> our place will offer as much late and early work as you want
[12:31] <gonzo_> you don't get anything for it, apart from more work
[12:33] <Cheeseman> our customers require 24x7 support :D
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[12:39] <Ian_> chicken, rice, sweetcorn and gravy, nice . . . slurp with a dash or more of chilli sauce.
[12:42] <Cheeseman> Ours was texas style
[12:42] <Cheeseman> no gravy and corn
[12:42] <Cheeseman> still really good though
[12:42] <Ian_> Need gravy and corn . . . . ;-(
[12:43] <Ian_> How much damage to disks, will the airborne contaminant do to disks? Never buy Amateur Radio equipment second hand from a smoker . . .
[12:44] <fsphil> or old computers
[12:44] <Cheeseman> Anything with ventilation
[12:44] <Ian_> Or old hams . . . the kit, it gets vapour deposited with tar
[12:45] <Ian_> and the hams get crusty . . .
[12:45] <Ian_> Ah, food again
[12:45] Action: fsphil just had a boring old sandwich
[12:46] <Ian_> Not too old, I trust
[12:46] <AndyEsser> no doubt kit from old hams will have a card stuck to it with a list of the drs appointments and ailments
[12:46] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0350309 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0350309
[12:46] <fsphil> haha, no
[12:46] <Ian_> Only G3 calls
[12:46] <AndyEsser> I'm happy enough with my MW6
[12:47] <AndyEsser> may eventually get an MW0/1 at some point - or whatever it is at that point
[12:47] <Ian_> The rest are catching up fast though G0 etc
[12:52] <Cheeseman> Well found a dead PDU under live gear, dammit
[12:53] <Cheeseman> This is going to be a production.. gotta get the engies involved
[12:54] <Cheeseman> Guess I might as well get off of here since I have to go talk to the hard hats now
[12:54] <Cheeseman> later guys
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[13:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N2420014 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N2420014
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[13:17] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0410245 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0410245
[13:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0350349 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0350349
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[13:35] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P1050909 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P1050909
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[14:08] <AndyEsser> I'm so glad I'm paying the OU for my degree
[14:08] <AndyEsser> refreshing a webpage every hour or so to note down a measurement from an experiment I'm watching via a webcam
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[15:58] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BZ-LORA-RTTY after 0312 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BZ-LORA-RTTY
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[16:43] <es5nhc> Hi all... Saw a note on our local ham radio e-mail list that apparently there is going to be a balloon launch from Estonia tomorrow
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[17:00] <Ian_> !flight StratosChem
[17:00] <SpacenearUS> 03Ian_: Can't find a flight doc matching your query
[17:01] <SA6BSS-Mike> es5nhc: any frequncy, mode, launch tiem?
[17:01] <SA6BSS-Mike> *time
[17:03] <Ian_> Launch: Thursday at 13:00 UTC from Nelijärve, Estonia (59.26569,25.6513). That's all I have, from #habhub at the moment
[17:04] <SA6BSS-Mike> ok
[17:04] <Ian_> ZUJ es5nhc - Flight StratosChem: Innove Cube flight. Project Estonian HAB flight for Innove by StratosChem. Window: Tomorrow at 21:00 UTC to Thursday at 20:59 UTC (Europe/Tallinn, +3)
[17:04] <SA6BSS-Mike> lets see if I can find more info...
[17:04] <Ian_> Thought that I had posted that bit from Habhub
[17:05] <Ian_> Nothing in the mail as yet, maybe discussed here in the last day or two.
[17:05] <Ian_> Cubesat testing exercise?
[17:09] <SA6BSS-Mike> 434.450 rtty 50b 7n1 600shift
[17:09] <SA6BSS-Mike> and it says 16 aug so that seems to be correct
[17:10] <Ian_> No hits on the highaltitude logs since Friday. . . . where did you get that Mike?
[17:11] <Ian_> I obviously just don't have your searching skills :)
[17:12] <SA6BSS-Mike> I have the computer on 24/7 and saw a ballon ower EST some days ago, just looked back the log anf then searched for it in payloads
[17:13] <SA6BSS-Mike> they posted a flight doc but in wrong channel, dont think its been approved
[17:13] <SA6BSS-Mike> lets see, what the bot says when I poste the nr in habhub...
[17:14] <Ian_> Rgr 52640f7c8b5a6e65e9ecc54c1399a202 was posted in #habhub by michemto and approved by adamgrieg @2029 yesterday
[17:15] <SA6BSS-Mike> ah, great then :)
[17:16] <SA6BSS-Mike> ha, it was to close, rad all logs above it :)
[17:16] <SA6BSS-Mike> Il poin my yagi that way before Ileve for work
[17:17] <Ian_> Hopefully es5nhc and pals will be able to copy it. Many thanks Mike.
[17:17] <SA6BSS-Mike> :)
[17:20] <es5nhc> Yep. Just installed installing dl-fldigi
[17:20] <es5nhc> *finished installing
[17:22] <es5nhc> And yep, that's the one. The announcement on the mailing list expects a launch at 13 UTC Thursday
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[17:27] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DC2EH-14 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DC2EH-14
[17:30] <SA6BSS-Mike> thats + 700km so Im not likely in the range
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[17:42] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4410417 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4410417
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[18:08] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N2240400 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N2240400
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[18:46] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03MWHS4345 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MWHS4345
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[19:05] <mkshrps> help
[19:06] <Ian_> Speak
[19:06] <Ian_> Mind readers are all eating their evening meal
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[19:16] <Ian_> He certainly wasn't one for hanging around long . . .
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[19:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_M2933224 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_M2933224
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[20:10] <mkshrps> Hi I'm new on the channel just announcing we are planning a balloon launch Monday afternoon (20/8) from Middlewich High Cheshire
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[22:19] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SB3 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SB3
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[22:33] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_DFM09-17028857 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_DFM09-17028857
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[23:16] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_M4010179 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_M4010179
[23:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3910561 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3910561
[23:19] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3910659 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3910659
[23:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P1830115 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P1830115
[23:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P1110547 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P1110547
[23:24] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4250546 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4250546
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[23:34] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_L2733558 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_L2733558
[23:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P1620151 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P1620151
[23:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4020257 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4020257
[23:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4410415 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4410415
[23:53] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_M2253225 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_M2253225
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[00:00] --- Thu Aug 16 2018