highaltitude.log.20180722

[00:02] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4020355 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4020355
[00:04] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0640015 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0640015
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[00:16] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P1040160 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P1040160
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[03:21] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK5PE_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VK5PE_chase
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[04:59] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Sp9uob_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Sp9uob_chase
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[05:46] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4430873 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4430873
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[05:55] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP9UOB after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP9UOB
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[06:44] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0350006 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0350006
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[07:09] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03MADUINO-1 after 0313 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MADUINO-1
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[08:04] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HORUSBINARY after 0314 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HORUSBINARY
[08:06] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P2210678 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P2210678
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[08:53] F1QM (02048c37@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.4.140.55) joined #highaltitude.
[08:54] <F1QM> recu a Narbonne Plage depuis 7 h TU
[08:55] <F1QM> SP9UOB received S1 sur Omni 3 dB 144.250 Narbpnne Plage 11
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[09:03] <PE2BZ> NIce RX F1QM !
[09:03] <PE2BZ> Is it again coming back ?
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[09:20] <F1QM> it is comming from south west near barcelona strong signal S 2 on omni antenna 3 dB
[09:22] <PE2BZ> Last friday it was over the Netherlands, up to the north of it, but in the night is went southwest again, over the Netherlands to France and Spain, and now its heading to France again.
[09:23] <F1QM> PE2BZ what is power output, antenna and polarization
[09:24] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP9UOB-P31 after 0314 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP9UOB-P31
[09:26] <PE2BZ> I quote Tom here:
[09:26] <PE2BZ> > May I ask the output power on 144.251 MHz ? Booming S9+ on vertical omnidirectional.
[09:26] <PE2BZ> Tx is si4460 based, about 16mW. If it enter UK airspace, then will be
[09:26] <PE2BZ> transmitting @434.550 MHz USB with ~1 mW output power.
[09:26] <PE2BZ> Antenna is vertically polarised, assuming 1/4 wave wire.
[09:27] <PE2BZ> Yesterday 20 db difference in the favour of my omnidirectional vertical compared to a 2 m horizontal dipole
[09:32] <F1QM> ok thanks i cannot copy any in 434 550
[09:33] <F1QM> from where is comming this balloon ?
[09:35] <F1QM> I heard some special sounds in 434.550 same saw ? time by time
[09:36] <PE2BZ> 434.550 is only when above the UK !
[09:37] <F1QM> ok
[09:37] <PE2BZ> 144.251 is the Contestia EX 32 / 1000 frequency
[09:39] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BZ-LORA-RTTY - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BZ-LORA-RTTY
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[09:44] <mfa298> F1QM: you should be able to see the path for SP9UOB over the last few days with https://tracker.habhub.org/#!mt=roadmap&mz=5&qm=3_days&mc=44.34213,-4.03621&q=SP9UOB*
[09:45] <F6GPT> QUELLES SONT LES FREQUENCES ??
[09:45] <mfa298> there's a drop down top left on the map for how much history you want to see (thre's more if you set it to all)
[09:46] <F6GPT> yes but no frequencies !!
[09:46] <F1QM> 144.251
[09:46] <PE2BZ> Don´t yell in capital letters sil vous plait !
[09:47] <F6GPT> where do you see frequencies ?
[09:47] <PE2BZ> In the info on UKHAS google groups I found them
[09:47] <F1QM> S5 a Narbonne plage 11
[09:47] <PE2BZ> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ukhas/SzlYZ2fX1nY
[09:48] <PE2BZ> F1QM you are not decoding it with dl-fldigi in HAB mode ?
[09:49] <F1QM> no sorry only i heard the sounds on my transceiver
[09:49] <PE2BZ> I see only F6HTJ as receiver on the habhub tracker. With S5 signal strenght it should decode easily :-)
[09:50] <F1QM> data is mich more stronger level than cw
[09:51] <PE2BZ> F1QM did you ever decode digital modes with audio from you RX to the computer soundcard ?
[09:54] <F1QM> it is located @ 120 km in s-sw from my qra and signal is S7 on omni 3 dB
[09:55] <F1QM> i think to have the help of F6HTJ
[09:55] <PE2BZ> no problem , no language barrierre ;-)
[09:55] <F1QM> we have a small station
[09:56] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03REL_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=REL_chase
[09:57] <PE2BZ> Hope to see you on the map soon :-)
[09:57] <PE2BZ> Ik heb nog lora uit het raam hangen achter, wil je het nog proberen ?
[09:57] <PE2BZ> srry wrong tab...
[09:57] <F1QM> thank you, nice day for everybody 73 for all
[09:59] <F1QM> I can broadcast signals and picture on you tube only in video live
[10:02] <PE2BZ> That´s nice to look at ;-)
[10:02] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P2210646 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P2210646
[10:02] <F1QM> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgWrqO6AA7dtEu0JT0qn4fw
[10:11] PE1CME (56529067@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.82.144.103) joined #highaltitude.
[10:16] <PE2BZ> F1QM good signal :-) next transmission I will appear on the map as receiver with your audio I think.
[10:17] <PE2BZ> $$SP9UOB-P31
[10:17] <PE2BZ> )851<1H0GBT*7*.642,4!6P?S$X#<S*!1M!^#8E'095)8,57,- 371'&J.6J1B,9,EA,0*85EF
[10:17] <PE2BZ> A little echo in your audio
[10:19] <SA6BSS-Mike> il try decode here as well :)
[10:20] <SA6BSS-Mike> nop
[10:20] <PE2BZ> Callsign is ok, rest is ¨missing¨
[10:20] <SA6BSS-Mike> hmm, SQL on, lets try that again
[10:21] <F1QM> you can watch and heard the baloon on https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgWrqO6AA7dtEu0JT0qn4fw
[10:23] <F1QM> it S 9 now
[10:23] <PE2BZ> We do feed your audio to fldig and decode it with your reception
[10:24] <PE2BZ> But audio and sometimes video are stuttering.
[10:24] <PE2BZ> But nice to try
[10:25] <PE2BZ> close $$SP9UOB-P31,9856,180722,102413,42.483.3,B.Q')93,11076,117,56,-2,116,267,1B,K*C
[10:26] <F1QM> my wifi link is not perfect i can encrease quality
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[10:30] <PE2BZ> Thanks, but I have to stop testing now. A nearby flight will launch in a short time, have to setup for that.
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[10:31] <PE2BZ> Now that´s increased quality ;-)
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[10:36] <F1QM> again on you tube with better signal
[10:36] SP9UOB-Tom (~verox@2a01:1df:1:b001::dead:beef) joined #highaltitude.
[10:37] <SP9UOB-Tom> Morning :-)
[10:39] <PE2BZ> Ground control to Major Tom ;-) Good morning !
[10:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> PE2BZ: morning :-)
[10:40] <PE2BZ> We want it back over here :-)
[10:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> Well, I want it back over Poland ;-)
[10:40] <PE2BZ> Is the payload Female ? Bit problems with making decisions where to go ;_)
[10:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> hahhahah
[10:41] <PE2BZ> It´s yours, but we have better vacuum cleaners.
[10:41] <SP9UOB-Tom> its rather IT than she or he ;-)
[10:41] <F1QM> you tube adress fr live over the sea now
[10:41] <F1QM> jean-Claude F1QM
[10:42] <PE2BZ> But Highsplit does not send it either your way or our way. So we have to wait
[10:42] <SP9UOB-Tom> F1QM: Morning Jean-Claude :-)
[10:42] <SP9UOB-Tom> its definetly avoiding to close full circle ;)
[10:43] <SP9UOB-Tom> just turn your vacuum cleaner of for a while ;-)
[10:43] <SP9UOB-Tom> off*
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[10:45] <PE2BZ> I think our windmills will do you a favour and blow it away :-)
[10:46] Action: PE2BZ is awaiting the message ¨new position from DELTA-3 after 24 hours of silence¨
[10:46] <SP9UOB-Tom> PE2BZ :-)
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[10:47] <PE2BZ> Is there a photo galery or something from your pico trackers ?
[10:47] <SP9UOB-Tom> here is launch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUwM_FDto6o&feature=youtu.be
[10:47] <F1QM> i an not shure in USB for data ? on 144.251 or 144.252 ?
[10:47] <PE2BZ> somewhere between. Try the bips at 1500 Hz and you are set ok
[10:47] <F1QM> we reive S9+10 now
[10:48] <PE2BZ> And is fldigi running ?
[10:48] <F1QM> i am not equiped
[10:48] <PE2BZ> audio is about 1000 hz low now
[10:48] <F1QM> only recveivers for sounds
[10:48] <PE2BZ> And a laptop with audio input...
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[10:49] <PE2BZ> Which should by default be wired to the output of your radio ?
[10:49] <F1QM> ok nox on .251 ?
[10:49] <PE2BZ> sounds better
[10:49] <F1QM> you tube strong latency
[10:50] <SP9UOB-Tom> F1QM: https://ukhas.org.uk/projects:dl-fldigi
[10:50] <SA6BSS-Mike> as you use a button radio it moste likly at 144.250 + 1500hz ofset
[10:50] <SP9UOB-Tom> F1QM: "dial" frequency is 144.251 and audio is +1500Hz
[10:50] <SA6BSS-Mike> there we go, thumbup
[10:53] <F1QM> now
[10:54] PD0SAR (1fc9acfa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.201.172.250) joined #highaltitude.
[10:54] <SP9UOB-Tom> PE2BZ: I have a few posts @facebook: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2489302571095490
[10:54] <SP9UOB-Tom> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2491306684228412
[10:55] <PE2BZ> Wow ! That´s Pico ....
[10:56] <SP9UOB-Tom> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2108722312486853
[10:56] <SP9UOB-Tom> :-)
[10:56] <PE2BZ> So gps antenna is 1/4 wave wire, and 144 Mhz antenna too ?
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[10:56] <PE2BZ> Guitar wire ?
[10:57] <PE2BZ> I am still constructing in the 20 - 30 gram range.
[10:57] <SP9UOB-Tom> PE2BZ: yes, GPS is 1/4 lambda guitar string, and 2m is half wave feed in the middle
[10:57] <PE2BZ> This is not a ¨do it myself at home project¨ for me.
[10:57] <PE2BZ> Excellent strong signal at 2 m !
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[11:00] <SP9UOB-Tom> PE2BZ: thanks :-)
[11:03] <F1QM> still I transmit on you tube baloon is near me but sky is cloudy
[11:06] <SP9UOB-Tom> F1QM: it is far above the clouds
[11:06] <SP9UOB-Tom> ;-)
[11:06] <SP9UOB-Tom> LOL https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8UAlSpIpgI
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[11:08] <PE2BZ> That´s always better than hearing Tubular bells...
[11:08] <SP9UOB-Tom> :-)
[11:08] <Darkside> that is a good track!
[11:08] <PE2BZ> I better like ¨the sound of silence¨ :-)
[11:08] <Darkside> and the man in the rain picked up his bag of secrets
[11:09] <Darkside> and journeyed up the mountainside
[11:15] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03DELTA-3 after 034 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DELTA-3
[11:17] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4011038 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4011038
[11:17] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0720391 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0720391
[11:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3920798 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3920798
[11:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4750069 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4750069
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[11:19] <Maxell> Ok, Delta-3 tracker is on air
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[11:21] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P1620180 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P1620180
[11:21] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
[11:31] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4430876 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4430876
[11:32] <SA6BSS-Mike> starting to get decodes from web sdr in Geneva
[11:33] G8FJG_Ron (56b03616@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.176.54.22) joined #highaltitude.
[11:36] <SP9UOB-Tom> PE2BZ: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9Dg-g7t2l4
[11:36] <SP9UOB-Tom> SA6BSS-Mike: Hi Mike :-)
[11:36] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_L3733003 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_L3733003
[11:36] <SA6BSS-Mike> Hi
[11:37] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0910020 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0910020
[11:44] <F1QM> SP9UOB zn direct sur You tube by jean-claude f1qm
[11:47] <F1QM> rx on 144.25150 balloon is @ 115 km from my location stil S7
[11:49] <F1QM> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjBoPjf0bLcAhVK3KQKHVhtDUIQwqsBCCowAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DS4TjksfZHxc&usg=AOvVaw10L0KfsxcMhdr1fzQLvgg1
[11:49] <F1QM> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjBoPjf0bLcAhVK3KQKHVhtDUIQwqsBCC0wAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D_sn0scGavB8&usg=AOvVaw3EpwPd2uykouG53C9jlPqH
[11:50] F4GUK (5139c453@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.57.196.83) joined #highaltitude.
[11:52] <PE2BZ> DELTA-3 appears to have +10 km offset
[11:52] <F1QM> adresse du direct https://youtu.be/3HGX2b9EWic
[11:54] <G8FJG_Ron> thats better,,, rxing reds
[11:55] <F1QM> live sound from Narbonne plage https://youtu.be/3HGX2b9EWic
[11:56] <F1QM> not shure that you can decodes the sound
[12:05] <F4GUK> @F1QM : Oui, c'est bien SP9UOB-P31 qui est passé sur l'ouest de l'Ile de France. :-)
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[12:16] <Maxell> sprintf( Sentence, "%s\n", &t->UKHASstring[2] );
[12:16] <Maxell> patches the linux client to strip out DELTA-3's extra $$$$s
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[12:29] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P2210592 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P2210592
[12:33] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03sr0fly-ttn after 0320 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=sr0fly-ttn
[12:37] <F1QM> still QSA @250 km https://youtu.be/3HGX2b9EWic
[12:43] <G8FJG_Ron> running gateway V1.8.21 decodes ok no upload.. but red led blinks... V1.8.10 runs fine ..gateway config looks the same ... any ideas?
[12:46] <PE2BZ> YEs
[12:46] <PE2BZ> <Maxell> sprintf( Sentence, "%s\n", &t->UKHASstring[2] );
[12:46] <PE2BZ> <Maxell> patches the linux client to strip out DELTA-3's extra $$$$s
[12:47] <PE2BZ> temporary modification necessary for default Stuart Robinson compatibility (gateway upload the 4 $ symbols)
[12:51] <G8FJG_Ron> I believe you Ben..clear as mud..saw the message up the log,, but didnt "fall in" I'll run V10 for now ;-) thanks for info
[12:56] <G8FJG_Ron> afk
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[13:05] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD5GOM-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD5GOM-11
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[13:17] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DO5FL_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DO5FL_chase
[13:22] <F1QM> By and good luck for the baloon
[13:25] F1QM (02048c37@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.4.140.55) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[13:28] <PE2BZ> Hi. would someone over here have a gpssim.bin file to emulate a hab flight with hackrf ?
[13:30] <SA6BSS-Mike> that would be 15-20 gb in size?
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[13:33] <PE2BZ> I´l take that one, yes please ;-)
[13:33] <SP9UOB-Tom> F1QM: bye
[13:34] <SA6BSS-Mike> :) I have not played with gps sim yet, but will soon
[13:36] <SA6BSS-Mike> I have the fl2k to play with, I have setup a usb with persistent changes and , did a quick tryout of the vga and it did for sure send fm radio across the room :)
[13:36] <SA6BSS-Mike> https://github.com/steve-m/fl2k-examples/tree/master/GPS
[13:36] <SA6BSS-Mike> hav not got to gps yet ...
[13:37] <bertrik> the fm radio example worked great indeed, with RDS even
[13:37] <SA6BSS-Mike> cool
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[14:00] <chris_99> oh that fl2k thing is reeally interesting
[14:04] <chris_99> i wonder, so it uses only the red , output according to the wiki, would using a ladder of rgb, help for am at all i wonder?
[14:10] <chris_99> just ordered some to play with :)
[14:10] <bertrik> as far as I understand the fl2k just acts as a fast DAC
[14:10] <bertrik> with 8-bit resolution probably
[14:10] <bertrik> maybe you can squeeze out a few more bits
[14:10] <chris_99> i wonder if there's 3 dacs or what
[14:12] <fsphil> oh that's cool
[14:13] <chris_99> it'd be good for random signal generation too, could be very handy
[14:13] <chris_99> someone on HaD said https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-0-USB-to-VGA-Display-Cable-Video-Graphic-Adapter-For-Windows-7-8-10/132414331526 uses the right chipset
[14:14] <fsphil> yeah I've been after something to generate video baseband signals
[14:14] <fsphil> an adc would be nice too but can't have it all :)
[14:14] <chris_99> haha
[14:14] <chris_99> yeah
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[14:23] <chris_99> i guess it's a lot harder to get an ADC with that kind of sample rate heh
[14:23] <chris_99> for that price anyway i mean
[14:26] <SA6BSS-Mike> PE2BZ: there is a windows version for generating the file https://github.com/camtas/gps-sdr-sim-Windows
[14:27] <SA6BSS-Mike> got this one and confirmed working https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-0-USB-to-VGA-Display-Cable-Video-Graphic-Adapter-For-Windows-7-8-10/132414331526?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
[14:28] <SA6BSS-Mike> ah, its the same linked ^^
[14:30] <bertrik> as I understood it, the trick of this hack is to suppress the H and V blanking logic so the output data is basically continuous
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[15:53] <dbrooke> just looked at that on ebay and found I had a £10 off voucher expiring at the end of month which I didn't know about
[16:03] <chris_99> nice
[16:03] <chris_99> SA6BSS-Mike: nice, you've actually got it?
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[16:25] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03On3kdm_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=On3kdm_chase
[16:26] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KD2KDD-11 after 0312 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD2KDD-11
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[16:27] Nick change: day_ -> day
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[16:41] <PE2BZ> Hi, if my GPS is somehow not in FlightMode, what would be the critical height ?
[16:44] <bertrik> uh oh?
[16:50] <PE2BZ> The DELTA-3 flight stopped updating GPS @ 12052 m altitude. After the burst, just below that altitude, it started the updates again.
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[16:56] <adamgreig> 12km is the critical height in pedestrian (=default) mode
[16:57] <PE2BZ> The DELTA-3 flight stopped updating GPS @ 12052 m altitude. After the burst, just below that altitude, it started the updates again.
[16:58] <PE2BZ> So 12052 m is quite close :-(
[16:58] <adamgreig> yes. sounds like it was not in flight mode.
[16:58] <chris_99> it seems a bit silly they restrict the chip imo, as surely the 'bad guys' could just use an SDR if they really wanted
[16:58] <bertrik> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinating_Committee_for_Multilateral_Export_Controls says 18 km
[16:59] <adamgreig> COCOM is a totally different thing
[16:59] <bertrik> oh sorry
[16:59] <adamgreig> 12km is because the chip refuses to believe its position fix is viable when it's been set to pedestrian mode
[16:59] <adamgreig> the COCOM limit is 18km *and* 1000 knots
[16:59] <adamgreig> so shouldn't ever apply to HABs
[16:59] <adamgreig> (not that some GPS manufacturers don't get this wrong and make it *or*)
[16:59] <SP9UOB-Tom> adamgreig 18km OR 1000 knots
[16:59] <adamgreig> no, and
[16:59] <bertrik> "just to err on the safe side"
[17:00] <SP9UOB-Tom> adamgreig: whichever comes first
[17:00] <adamgreig> SP9UOB-Tom no it's both
[17:00] <adamgreig> the COCOM regulations are clear
[17:00] <adamgreig> consider that the ublox work at 50km altitude
[17:00] <adamgreig> clearly they do not cut out after 18km
[17:01] <adamgreig> chris_99: when COCOM regulations were put in place you would have really really struggled to use an SDR to do your own GPS
[17:01] <chris_99> ah heh, can't they just ditch it now though
[17:01] <adamgreig> you could definitely have tried to make your own receiver without an SDR but it would be a bit of an undertaking
[17:01] <SP9UOB-Tom> adamgreig: but only in specific mode. Regular receivers does cut out above 18 km
[17:02] <adamgreig> potentially but why? it's not like there are a multitude of legit people wanting >18km >1200mph
[17:02] <PE2BZ> Should the ¨Dynamic model is 6¨ nessage confirm that it´s in flight mode ?
[17:02] <adamgreig> SP9UOB-Tom: no
[17:02] <adamgreig> the ublox always cuts out if >18km and >1000 knots, and otherwise it depends on its dynamic mode: in the default pedestrian mode it cuts out at 12km and some lower speed, in airborne mode the altitude limit is increased to 50km
[17:03] <SP9UOB-Tom> adamgreig: thats right
[17:03] <PE2BZ> GPS PollNavigation B5 62 6 24 0 0 2A 84
[17:03] <PE2BZ> Ack B5 62 06 24 24 00 FF FF 06 03 00 00 00 00 10 27 00 00 05 00 FA 00 FA 00 64 00 2C 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 16 DC
[17:03] <PE2BZ> Dynamic Model is 6
[17:03] <SP9UOB-Tom> but if you are below 18 km and above 1000 knots - ublox wil loose the fix
[17:04] <SP9UOB-Tom> *will
[17:04] <PE2BZ> Where this page https://ava.upuaut.net/?p=750 tells me that that equals to the flight mode.
[17:05] <adamgreig> dynamic mode 6 is correct for "airborne <1g" which does not have the 12km limit
[17:05] <SP9UOB-Tom> and afaik one of cocom limitation may be overriden (speed OR altitude OR acceleration)
[17:06] <adamgreig> the ublox cuts out at high speed and low altitude for the same reason it cuts out above 12km in pedestrian mode, it's not because of cocom but because of its dynamic model that has been selected
[17:07] <adamgreig> PE2BZ: that ack is definitely saying it's in mode 6 at that time
[17:07] <adamgreig> was it power-cycled since?
[17:08] <SP9UOB-Tom> adamgreig: but ublox doesnt have dynamic model > 4.5g od >515m/s Anyway we've talking about two different things ;-)
[17:09] <adamgreig> the accelerations are nothing to do with COCOM afaik?
[17:09] <SP9UOB-Tom> Immediate access to satellite measurements and navigation results is disabled when the receivers velocity is computed to be greater than 1000 knots, or its altitude is computed to be above 18,000 meters. The receiver continuously resets until the COCOM situation is cleared.
[17:09] <PE2BZ> Assuming not powercycled, the ack is from my SuartRobinson payload, the one from PE1ANS this afternoon got stuck at 12052 m until it came back below 12 km
[17:09] <SP9UOB-Tom> adamgreig: it is specified
[17:09] <adamgreig> in what document is that?
[17:09] <PE2BZ> The sequence numbers did not reset, so I would say not powercycled or rebooted.
[17:11] <SA6BSS-Mike> chris_99: yes, bought one soon after the hack was presented
[17:11] <chris_99> ah nice cool, looking forward to getting some to play with
[17:11] <adamgreig> SP9UOB-Tom: I think that is from trimble units, nothing to do with ublox
[17:12] <adamgreig> the actual COCOM limits are AND, irregardless of some companies deciding to implement OR - and pertinently, the ublox uses AND
[17:12] <chris_99> ah interesting re. the limit is AND
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[17:12] <SP9UOB-Tom> adamgreig: propably
[17:13] <adamgreig> the ublox obviously definitely uses AND because it operates above 18km
[17:13] <chris_99> mm
[17:13] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03U3B-22 after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=U3B-22
[17:13] <SA6BSS-Mike> this gps have no altitude limit activated at all, and cheap :) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/GPRS-series-GPS-BDS-Compass-ATGM332D-Satellite-positioning-Timing-module-GP-02-IOT-Artificial-Intelligence/32819088012.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.a91e4c4d8TSlIa
[17:14] <SA6BSS-Mike> same footprint as the ublox, be ware of pin 9 iirc have to float
[17:15] <chris_99> and it has 'IOT Artificial Intelligence'!
[17:16] <chris_99> most GPSs use a single band right?
[17:16] <adamgreig> yes typically
[17:17] <SA6BSS-Mike> moste gps have multiple gps system in them like galileo and bds and some more I cant remeber
[17:17] <chris_99> i'm curious with the Ublox F9 if it can really get cm accuracy with just sats, through l1,l2,l5?
[17:17] <chris_99> or if that also comes from ground stations
[17:19] <chris_99> oh it seems it does
[17:19] <chris_99> use ground stations too that is
[17:19] <chris_99> to get that
[17:24] <chris_99> i'm slightly confused why ground based correction services are necessary, as surely they work in a similar way to the satellites, although having a fixed position?
[17:25] <adamgreig> they have the advantage of being under the atmosphere and so can measure it
[17:25] <chris_99> ahh
[17:25] <chris_99> ok that makes sense
[17:25] <adamgreig> the correction service provides details on the current state of the atmosphere/ionosphere
[17:25] <chris_99> i didn't realise that
[17:26] <PE2BZ> rebooting brb
[17:26] <adamgreig> this is why dual-band GPS, measuring coherent signals on two different frequencies (so not gps+glonass but gps l1+gps l2), can look at the difference between the two bands to estimate atmospheric effects too
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[17:26] <chris_99> ah neat
[17:27] <chris_99> and the the ublox is triple band even
[17:28] <chris_99> one other question, does encrypted military gps provide any accuracy advantage?
[17:28] <chris_99> i can see it useful for anti-spoofing stuff
[17:28] <chris_99> but curious about accuracy
[17:30] <adamgreig> my understanding is that the miltiary signals allow you to do the same dual-band thing you can (only recently) do with the two civilian signals
[17:30] <adamgreig> plus yes anti-spoofing
[17:31] <chris_99> gotcha cheers. i was also wondering, gps chips dont use an atomic clock, say they did wouldn't that also improve accuracy?
[17:31] <adamgreig> it gets a bit complicated because there's original gps which had a coarse signal for civilians and an encrypted signal which you used in addition for military and was more accurate, then civilians got a better signal, then more recently a second band civilian and new military signal
[17:31] <adamgreig> and at the same time, galileo and glonass have different things
[17:31] <adamgreig> atomic clocks are very heavy and power hungry and expensive etc
[17:31] <adamgreig> the satellites all have atomic clocks of various types
[17:32] <chris_99> you can get chip scale ones tho
[17:32] <chris_99> now
[17:32] <adamgreig> barely
[17:32] <chris_99> yeah they're not tiny heh
[17:32] <adamgreig> they're not necessarily good and they're still power hungry and extremely expensive
[17:32] <chris_99> and their accuracy isn't better than a rubidium one iirc
[17:32] <adamgreig> the receivers can generally derive an excellent clock reference from the rf signal alone
[17:32] <adamgreig> so a local clock is not hugely useful
[17:32] <adamgreig> rubidiums are atomic clocks
[17:32] <chris_99> yeah i know
[17:32] <chris_99> but the chip scale ones aren't better i thought
[17:32] <adamgreig> no i don't think they are
[17:33] <adamgreig> in theory an excellent local clock might help matters but it would mostly just be useful in holdover, because while it might be accurate it won't be phase synchronous to the gps clock during initial acquisition
[17:33] <adamgreig> i don't think it would significantly improve accuracy
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[17:33] <adamgreig> once you have a lock, the local clock you generate is very well aligned to gps
[17:34] <chris_99> ah interesting
[17:34] <chris_99> because it's disciplined ever so often too by the sats?
[17:34] <adamgreig> it's constantly disciplined by the receiver
[17:35] <adamgreig> based on the signals received by the sats
[17:35] <chris_99> mm
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[17:40] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4430865 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4430865
[17:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4720603 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4720603
[17:42] <chris_99> https://www.anfractuosity.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/2.jpg thats from two rubidium clocks i took, using x-y, a while ago, i'm pretty sure the sample rate i used is wrong now by an order of magnitude, will have to try again, if i can fix one
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[18:04] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RS_P2210646 after 037 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P2210646
[18:15] starman_ (4f9c0790@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.156.7.144) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[18:22] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0340684 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0340684
[18:25] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03YL3GBC_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YL3GBC_chase
[18:27] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BZ-LORA-RTTY after 038 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BZ-LORA-RTTY
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[20:06] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_M2353286 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_M2353286
[20:26] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BSS17 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BSS17
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[21:15] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ON-pc4l_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ON-pc4l_chase
[21:16] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03delta-3-pc4l_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=delta-3-pc4l_chase
[22:06] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_DFM09-17028170 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_DFM09-17028170
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[23:15] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3730749 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3730749
[23:16] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_M4010195 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_M4010195
[23:16] chris_99 (uid26561@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ytlvziikdtnmmrkj) joined #highaltitude.
[23:17] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IV3SRD-11 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
[23:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4010920 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4010920
[23:19] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4720604 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4720604
[23:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4020920 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4020920
[23:24] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3640342 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3640342
[23:26] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P1620090 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P1620090
[23:34] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_L3813597 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_L3813597
[23:44] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0910019 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0910019
[23:47] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0630258 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0630258
[23:49] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4430856 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4430856
[23:51] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4020357 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4020357
[00:00] --- Mon Jul 23 2018