highaltitude.log.20180525

[00:04] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_M4613236 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_M4613236
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[01:16] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KG5IFR after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KG5IFR
[01:30] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3720116 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3720116
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[03:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_DFM09-16006116 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_DFM09-16006116
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[04:11] Nick change: day__ -> day
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[04:51] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4130508 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4130508
[05:15] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4820026 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4820026
[05:35] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0420282 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0420282
[05:47] <PE2BZ> Good morning. Last night I filled a 90 cm latex no-brand balloon for 20 gram necklift just to see what was the necklift after 8 hours. That was what I intended to fly today. This morning, the balloon was not even able to lift it´s own weight and was laying on the ground.
[05:48] <PE2BZ> I guess that when I fly the same type of balloon for 8 hours I also loose the same lift ability ? The BoBo which I tested last year only lost 3 gram necklift in 16 hours
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[05:55] <Ian_> Was that a Jumbo unlubricated latexenvelope then? Went flaccid overnight! :)
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[06:12] <Mike-SA6BSS> sorry , wrong channel
[06:12] <Mike-SA6BSS> no, its not,
[06:12] <Mike-SA6BSS> strange things happens to balloons at altitude, the balloon Im using on my payloads loses al lift after -4-5 days at ground but today after 54 days flight it reached a new in flight altitude reccord
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[06:16] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SQ5OUZ-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SQ5OUZ-11
[06:37] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03U3B-18 after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=U3B-18
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[07:05] <drohan> What is the gain of a quarter wave antenna?
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[07:38] <craag> drohan: often quoted as 2.15dBi
[07:39] <drohan> Thanks!
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[08:01] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SA6BSS-9 after 033 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SA6BSS-9
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[08:04] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03U3B-19 after 0320 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=U3B-19
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[08:49] <PE2BZ> Mike-SA6BSS does the ¨no it´s not¨ refer to ¨wrong channel¨ or to not loosing the same lift in flight ??
[08:50] <PE2BZ> I am at work but do read every now and then here.
[08:59] <fsphil> !track QUBT1-R
[08:59] <SpacenearUS> 03fsphil: Here you go - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=QUBT1-R
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[09:28] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0420295 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0420295
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[10:29] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KJ4JEE-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KJ4JEE-11
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[10:31] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRF-6 after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRF-6
[10:46] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
[10:47] <Mike-SA6BSS> PE2BZ: refered to the frong cannell statement
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[10:56] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4130507 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4130507
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[10:59] <Darkside> hello...
[11:03] <PE2BZ> is it me your looking for ;-)
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[11:17] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3740510 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3740510
[11:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3940181 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3940181
[11:31] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3720119 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3720119
[11:37] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RSIST after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RSIST
[11:45] <PE2BZ> pe2bz lora is stuck in a local tree
[11:45] <PE2BZ> So no flight today
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[11:50] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PE2BZ after 034 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PE2BZ
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[11:58] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_DFM09-16006090 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_DFM09-16006090
[12:02] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0850394 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0850394
[12:02] <craag> aw :(
[12:03] <PE2BZ> You can say that again :-(
[12:03] <Darkside> hmm
[12:04] <PE2BZ> But it´s still ok and sends gps when the leaves wave away. Now if I wait till autum it should come down
[12:04] <Darkside> interesting DFM sondes with the long serial numbers
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[12:04] <Darkside> need to get OZ1SKY to go recover one of them and check if that number is legit
[12:04] <PE2BZ> It is, they are the DFM-09 serial numbers, 16 is from 2016, and so on
[12:05] <Darkside> i thought they were 6 digits
[12:05] <Darkside> at least, the one i have is
[12:05] Action: PE2BZ is running the predictor for the rs41 solar powered tomorrow. It is another sunny day
[12:06] <Darkside> and many other DFM09-s observed have only 6-digit numbers
[12:06] <Darkside> maybe they are older
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[12:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CALLSIGN123_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CALLSIGN123_chase
[12:22] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03FOX_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=FOX_chase
[12:30] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0530124 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0530124
[12:45] <PE2BZ> There it is: https://imgur.com/a/c1bE5dl
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[13:08] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PE2BZ-12mw - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PE2BZ-12mw
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[14:33] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03N9QIE-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N9QIE-11
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[14:40] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ka 01 mq 3157_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ka%2001%20mq%203157_chase
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[14:54] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03QUB2L - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=QUB2L
[14:54] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03QUB2R - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=QUB2R
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[16:30] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3720107 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3720107
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[17:08] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3650021 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3650021
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[17:52] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BSS13 after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BSS13
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[18:25] <PE2BZ> https://www.wroclaw.pl/biznes/prototyp-swiatowida-poleci-do-stratosfery that was :-)
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[18:25] <PE2BZ> That ´s a nice setup !
[18:26] <sq6pog> So.. tomorrow we will be testing Zwiatowid - observation nanosat
[18:27] <sq6pog> It is developed by Wroclaw's company - SatRevolution, and It will transmit high-resolution photos via 2.4 GHz transmitter
[18:28] <sq6pog> As far as I know the main purpose of tomorrow's test is to test 70cm band telemetry
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[18:30] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KG5IFR after 0317 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KG5IFR
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[18:33] <sq6pog> btw, have anyone tried to send live photos from HAB?
[18:35] <PE2BZ> sometimes they send amateur television from Hab
[18:36] <sq6pog> analog TV ?
[18:37] <PE2BZ> indeed
[18:38] <sq6pog> that's the only one which was working in our case
[18:39] <sq6pog> we (SP6ZWR club) have tested 1.2 and 5.8 GHz transmitters for FPV
[18:39] <PE2BZ> The biggest problem is that your payload rotates a lot, including the antenna[
[18:39] <sq6pog> once we was able to receive it from abt 20km
[18:39] <sq6pog> yes
[18:39] <fsphil> transmitting pictures is very common these days
[18:39] <fsphil> even quite high resolution ones
[18:39] <fsphil> but video is less common
[18:39] <sq6pog> we've also tested 70cm SSTV and DRM
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[18:40] <sq6pog> using argent data transmitter and custom DRM transmitter based on arduino
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[18:41] <fsphil> https://ssdv.habhub.org/QUBT1/2018-05-23
[18:41] <sq6pog> but argent data died (propably batteries), it doesn't have shutter speed control and image was overexposed and there were problems with sync
[18:41] <fsphil> some from a recent flight
[18:42] <sq6pog> nic
[18:42] <sq6pog> nice
[18:42] <sq6pog> and that's the way to go
[18:42] <fsphil> drm isn't really useable, the sync time is too slow
[18:42] <fsphil> the image format it uses does not tolerate lost data either
[18:42] <sq6pog> and for DRM...
[18:43] <sq6pog> on ground it was working
[18:43] <fsphil> yes it's fine with a steady signal
[18:43] <sq6pog> but I've used it on 70cm band
[18:43] <sq6pog> with Dorji transmitter
[18:44] <sq6pog> and during the flight camera stopped working and I couldn't receive any full DRM transmission
[18:44] <fsphil> rtty or lora (or the more experimental wenet) is a better option
[18:44] <fsphil> lora and wenet for high resolution images
[18:45] <fsphil> even on 70cm
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[18:45] <sq6pog> SSTV on 70cm FM is nice, because to receive it you only need cheap radio and smartphone, but quality is poor
[18:45] <sq6pog> what's wenet ?
[18:45] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03GSM - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=GSM
[18:45] <fsphil> yeah I still have a soft spot for analogue video/image modes :)
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[18:46] <fsphil> it's a very fast FSK mode developed in australia, https://github.com/projecthorus/wenet
[18:47] <fsphil> it works very well but the software is a bit rough at the moment
[18:47] <sq6pog> nice
[18:48] <sq6pog> if I had time I'd have try that :)
[18:49] <sq6pog> I'm also interested in DVB-S on IF - its perfectly in 13cm band
[18:50] <sq6pog> so to receive it it's possible to use STB w/o LNB
[18:50] <fsphil> ooh yes that'd be fun, wouldn't need any special equipment to display the video either
[18:50] <fsphil> I've done that with analogue video, but just short range tests
[18:51] <sq6pog> I've succesfully transmitted live video using hackrf SDR as transmitter and USB DVB-S receiver
[18:51] <fsphil> the old satellite receiver I have is surprisingly sensitive
[18:51] <sq6pog> but also for short range
[18:51] <sq6pog> and we've send FPV module for 1.2 GHz last year
[18:51] <sq6pog> it was working
[18:52] <fsphil> we don't get to play with these fun video modes in the UK. so annoying :)
[18:53] <sq6pog> it's also not popular in Poland
[18:54] <sq6pog> I've also got possibility to test it using professional equipment - at least for transmitting and receiving
[18:55] <sq6pog> but unfortunately professional stuff have got fun modes licensed and my company doesn't need those modes
[18:57] <sq6pog> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMMyDiekOq_KT2eNZZzEvUw/videos
[18:57] <sq6pog> we've also been sending 360 camera
[18:57] <sq6pog> it's fun to watch it in vr glasses
[18:58] <sq6pog> but sending live 360 might be difficult
[18:58] <fsphil> hah, does it make you dizzy?
[18:58] <sq6pog> as long as you look on payload it's not so bad :)
[19:00] <sq6pog> so I guess for now the next step would be to use SSDV
[19:01] <sq6pog> I like the possibility to combine picture from multiple receivers
[19:01] <fsphil> that's its main advantage :)
[19:01] <fsphil> better image quality than sstv too
[19:01] <fsphil> much better with the faster modes
[19:02] <sq6pog> It is a pity that DRM did not work, 64QAM was promising
[19:03] <fsphil> I think it's too complex for its own good. too many layers
[19:03] <sq6pog> but also hardware I've used was quite cheap and dirty
[19:04] <sq6pog> 1$ usb soundcard, dorji module and raspi zero
[19:04] <fsphil> the lora receivers are quite cheap, and wenet is often just done with an rtlsdr receiver
[19:04] <fsphil> I don't know how well the wenet demodulator would work on a raspberry pi though. maybe Darkside has tried?
[19:05] <sq6pog> it's not a problem for receiving
[19:06] <sq6pog> if it requires PC
[19:06] <fsphil> the transmitter for both lora and wenet are the same, https://store.uputronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=61&product_id=69
[19:07] <fsphil> it does require a bit of coding
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[19:08] <sq6pog> we've also tested 14MHz RTTY transmitter at the begining of May
[19:08] <sq6pog> it was controlled by radiosonde
[19:08] <sq6pog> and it worked well
[19:09] <sq6pog> but it's not as fast as lora
[19:09] <fsphil> HF is quite fun though
[19:09] <sq6pog> but if it's more stable it doesn't have to be fast
[19:09] <fsphil> even with all the difficulties
[19:10] <sq6pog> as far as I remember it was PIXIE cw trx
[19:10] <fsphil> I tested RTTY over HF (I think it was 7mhz) but it needed about 20 watts :)
[19:10] <fsphil> er, SSDV*
[19:10] <sq6pog> ssdv over rtty over hf :)
[19:11] <fsphil> yeah! annoyingly I can't remember who I tested that with
[19:11] <fsphil> my memory sucks
[19:15] <sq6pog> you were testing it on the ground I guess
[19:15] <fsphil> yeah, with a big radio
[19:15] <fsphil> it was UK to OZ1SKY, Denmark
[19:17] <sq6pog> with which baud?
[19:17] <fsphil> 300
[19:17] <sq6pog> hm
[19:17] <fsphil> it wasn't fast :)
[19:18] <sq6pog> it would be nice to test it from 20 km above the Earth :)
[19:18] <fsphil> with a better modem than rtty, I'd imagine it could be made to work well
[19:19] <sq6pog> I was trying it using PSK
[19:19] <sq6pog> and fl-digi was decoding that as far as I remmber
[19:20] <sq6pog> I wanted to use it with DRM transmitter, but I couldn't found working CLI software modulator
[19:20] <fsphil> I wonder if PSK or FSK is better for HF modes
[19:21] <sq6pog> I wanted it to be faster
[19:21] <fsphil> maybe 4 or 8fsk, a slower symbol rate to deal with the multipath distortion
[19:21] <sq6pog> but multipath...
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[19:21] <sq6pog> I wanted to use it with dorji, so 70cm FM
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[19:22] <sq6pog> unfortunately our missions are quite chaotic
[19:24] <fsphil> that dorji module seems to be pretty much the same thing as the rfm module I linked to earlier
[19:24] <fsphil> could probably be made to do rtty or wenet
[19:24] <sq6pog> http://www.dorji.com/products-detail.php?ProId=56
[19:25] <sq6pog> its complete UHF FM transceiver
[19:25] <fsphil> ooh that's different to what I was reading
[19:25] <sq6pog> there is UHF and VHF version
[19:26] <fsphil> doing anything over FM will be quite wasteful
[19:26] <sq6pog> and we are using it mostly to send prerecorded SSTV images
[19:26] <fsphil> I'd defintily be looking into using a proper data modem
[19:26] <sq6pog> so many amateurs could receive it using cheap baofeng
[19:27] <fsphil> well yes there is that
[19:27] <fsphil> maybe fly both :)
[19:27] <sq6pog> and that soundcard - dorji option is bad idea
[19:27] <sq6pog> first of all dorji module has microphone level input
[19:28] <sq6pog> and also its wasteful
[19:29] <sq6pog> actually it's possible to use only rpi gpio with some filters and PA to send data
[19:30] <sq6pog> even DBV-S on 1 GHz (12 harmonic)
[19:30] <sq6pog> https://hackaday.com/2016/04/03/dvb-s-from-a-raspberry-pi-with-no-extra-hardware/
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[19:31] <sq6pog> I've also tried that, but I was only once able to receive it and only for like 1 minute
[19:31] <fsphil> just make sure those filters are effective :)
[19:31] <sq6pog> it's not easy :)
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[19:37] <sq6pog> I've send link for wenet to our radiosonde hunters group
[19:38] <fsphil> it's fun to see really large images download in seconds :)
[19:38] <sq6pog> we've got quite nice network of receivers
[19:39] <sq6pog> and it's possible to reconfigure those stations to receive wenet
[19:39] <sq6pog> as they are based on RTL-SDR
[19:40] <sq6pog> the only part I don't have got is this RFM98 module
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[19:40] <sq6pog> but I guess someone already have got it on a shelf
[19:41] <daveake> fsphil: When you are going to fly wenet ?
[19:41] <sq6pog> and I have to find better camera for raspi
[19:41] <fsphil> I was hoping to have flown it already. Definitly in June
[19:42] <sq6pog> I don't konw we are quite chaotic because of the lack of time :(
[19:43] <fsphil> I always have plenty of time, I just don't use it well :)
[19:43] <sq6pog> I'll try to let you know, but the last decision is made at the last minute
[19:44] <fsphil> there's a local student group here that's like that. launches with 1 day notice :)
[19:44] <fsphil> though I've seen people announce launches after they're launched
[19:44] <sq6pog> thats how we work
[19:44] <sq6pog> I don't like it
[19:44] <sq6pog> but this month we've had 4 flights
[19:45] <sq6pog> one with cancer cells which were tested by students from medical university
[19:45] <sq6pog> one with DRM transmitter
[19:45] <fsphil> they launched cancer cells into the upper atmosphere? what could possibly go wrong
[19:46] <sq6pog> I've got video
[19:46] <sq6pog> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiVXcVJ5pjI
[19:46] <fsphil> the payload box the local team used may have been previously used to carry organs :)
[19:46] <udat> a meteor shower comes, green sky, day of the triffids...
[19:46] <sq6pog> unfortunately in polish
[19:46] <fsphil> they got them from the medical department of the university
[19:47] <sq6pog> haha
[19:47] <sq6pog> actually those cells were safe
[19:47] <fsphil> did they get them back?
[19:47] <fsphil> I can't imagine DRM would've worked well for tracking
[19:47] <sq6pog> they had all the necessary consents
[19:48] <sq6pog> yup, they've got them back and they were very happy about the resultsr0,00esoults
[19:48] <sq6pog> wow, what have I written
[19:49] <fsphil> lol
[19:49] <fsphil> special effects
[19:49] <fsphil> nice launch site, by a river
[19:49] <sq6pog> DRM was only for live pictures, for tracking we always use rs tracker by SP9UOB
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[19:49] <fsphil> ah better
[19:49] <sq6pog> RTTY, APRS 1200, APRS 4800 GFSK, DSTAR
[19:49] <sq6pog> all in one
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[20:39] <Mike-SA6BSS> PE2BZ: any predictions for tommorows flight?
[20:41] <sq6pog> fsphil: I've added subtitles https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiVXcVJ5pjI
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[20:54] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03U3B-19 after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=U3B-19
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[20:59] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP6ZWR after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6ZWR
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[21:14] <drohan> Hey all, another question -- I've been looking at different LoRa configurations (Changing BW, CR, SF, etc.) and I've seen how they can impact the bitrate, but how can I calculate the expected range of each configuration?
[21:14] <drohan> Or to better phrase - How can I fit different configurations into a link budget?
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[21:16] <daveake> There's a calculator program on the semtech site
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[21:18] <drohan> Do you know where off the top of your head? I've tried googling around but haven't had much luck
[21:22] <daveake> sorry no
[21:23] <fsphil> ok. who broke the bot
[21:26] <fsphil> haha, you have to register on their website to get it
[21:29] <daveake> https://www.dropbox.com/s/semmk98h7bqr7rz/SX1272CalculatorUI.exe?dl=0
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[21:49] <drohan> Thank you guys :)
[21:50] <drohan> I'll also make an account. Assuming there are more nifty LoRa trinkets hiding behind there
[21:51] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SA6BSS-9 after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SA6BSS-9
[21:53] <drohan> Uh oh, looks like they want company emails. They won't let me register with my gmail
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[22:11] <TT7> drohan: I did some link budget calculations with LoRa here
[22:11] <TT7> http://tt7hab.blogspot.cz/2018/04/the-lora-ssdv.html
[22:11] <TT7> if you want to do them yourself
[22:21] <drohan> Thank you :()
[22:21] <drohan> :)
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[23:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0530219 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0530219
[23:19] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3640517 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3640517
[23:19] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4840121 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4840121
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[23:22] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3730173 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3730173
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[23:25] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3940182 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3940182
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[23:26] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3650515 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3650515
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[23:40] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RSIST after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RSIST
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[23:44] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_P0310192 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_P0310192
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[23:53] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N0220062 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N0220062
[23:53] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03U3B-20 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=U3B-20
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[00:00] --- Sat May 26 2018