highaltitude.log.20180430

[00:01] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03DK3SB-2 after 0315 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DK3SB-2
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[01:22] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03WB9SKY-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WB9SKY-11
[01:23] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC9LHW-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC9LHW-11
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[04:58] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4130734 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4130734
[05:58] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 039 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
[05:59] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4710233 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4710233
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[06:44] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LY2EK - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=LY2EK
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[08:23] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CALLSIGN123_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CALLSIGN123_chase
[08:33] Nick change: Steffann -> Steffanx
[08:34] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Sp3wxi_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Sp3wxi_chase
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[09:33] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03X0 after 033 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=X0
[09:35] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4710231 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4710231
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[09:56] <PB0AHX-Herman> !flights
[09:56] <SpacenearUS> 03PB0AHX-Herman: Current flights: 03Nottingham High IJS 10(ca13)
[09:57] <daveake> That one has been moved to Friday.
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[10:04] <PB0AHX-Herman> tnx info daveake
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[10:56] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4130527 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4130527
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[11:19] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3720207 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3720207
[11:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3820661 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3820661
[11:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3540700 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3540700
[11:40] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RSIST after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RSIST
[12:24] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4620505 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4620505
[12:26] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KC0RPS-11 after 039 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC0RPS-11
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[12:55] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4250779 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4250779
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[13:25] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4420557 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4420557
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[15:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KJ4SVQ-2 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KJ4SVQ-2
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[17:14] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3650544 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3650544
[17:16] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP6VWX - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6VWX
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[20:02] <OLHZN> Hello, we have a micro-payload (tiny circuit board) that we need to add a 2m (144.39MHz) antenna to it. We were previously using just a solid core 22 AWG wire soldered to the board, but in the cold temps, it would always snap off as soon as the descent began. Any ideas on a super lightweight & inexpensive antenna setup that can hold up?
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[20:04] <OLHZN> (for a weather balloon)
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[20:09] <daveake> Thin guitar wire is nice and bendy
[20:09] <OLHZN> Someone else mentioned that too... that would hold up you think?
[20:09] <daveake> It's springy, so though it will bend when hit it will try to stay straight otherwise
[20:09] <OLHZN> Any particular size you've used?
[20:10] <daveake> erm 1 sec
[20:10] <OLHZN> :-)
[20:10] <daveake> 13 gauge
[20:11] <daveake> It's very cheap you could try other thicknesses
[20:11] <OLHZN> Just soldered direct to the board? Any strain relief needed?
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[20:14] <daveake> Well my payloads are generally heavier :); I solder to an SMA plug, then put heatshrink over it
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[20:15] <daveake> Soldering direct to a board I'd want to fix it down mechanically ... say a hole either side and run a loop of wire round the joint and solder that
[20:16] <OLHZN> The solder seemed to hold up well with the 22 AWG wire we were using, it was just that the wire would flap every direction on descent and eventually snap itself off like 3 minutes into the descent.
[20:16] <OLHZN> Trying to keep the whole thing under 100g :-)
[20:17] <daveake> I've had one wire aerial that got twisted till it snapped off.
[20:17] <daveake> Very little left but still managed to track it on the ground, fortunately
[20:18] <OLHZN> Ah, lucky. Yeah, I'm also worried about tangling with the balloon line, but so far that hasn't been an issue.
[20:18] <daveake> Yeah that's what happened that time
[20:19] <OLHZN> Did you have the SMA connector even for that?
[20:21] <daveake> No that one was directly soldered
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[20:22] <daveake> I thnk
[20:22] <OLHZN> Doing anything different to avoid that or just hoping to avoid tangling?
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[20:31] <TT7> hi everyone
[20:32] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03DK3SB-2 after 0314 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DK3SB-2
[20:32] <TT7> has anyone done any receiver sensitivity tests with the RFM96/98 or any other Lora modules?
[20:34] <TT7> for example to what extent are the inbuilt RSSI readings accurate in absolute terms
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[20:43] <craag> I looked at some collected terestrial data from them a while back and found that the reported RSSI, among other things, varied a lot with temperature for the same links with the same throughput.
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[20:51] <TT7> I have got three of the cheap RFM96s. their noise floors seem to be about 30dB above what would be thermal noise in respective bandwidth
[20:52] <TT7> two of them seem quite stable. one is less predictable..
[20:53] <bertrik> what is a "cheap" rfm96?
[20:53] <TT7> the reported noise floors also seem to be indifferent to environment
[20:53] <TT7> from Ebay
[20:54] <TT7> ¬5-7
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[20:55] <bertrik> ooh, you can find them under $5 now at aliexpress https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/RFM96-cheap/32829630917.html
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[20:59] <TT7> I also bought two other similarly priced Lora modules for comparison.. one behaved similarly to the RFMs, the other was about 10dB higher in terms of the reported noise floor
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[21:01] <TT7> I tried measuring their noise floors and the lowest decodable signal levels with attenuators.. but the setup was probably too RF leaky, so that didn't lead to anything useful
[21:05] <TT7> I saw Darkside's video where he did similar measurements with his high speed SSDV link... I wanted to ask him about that
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[21:54] <TT7> hi Darkside, in the video about your high speed SSDV link, did you use any special cable when attenuating the signal?
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[21:55] <Darkside> nothing in particulr, though there was lots of attenuation at each end
[21:55] <Darkside> we actually refined that attenuation setup a bit recently, using a longer run of cable with better shielding
[21:56] <Darkside> the important bit isnt the atenuation in the cable - the cable is just to physically get the transmitter well away from the receive setup, to avoid leakage from the transmitter box into the receiver
[21:57] <TT7> I tried something similar with Lora modules, four 30dB attenuators and about 5m of ordinary RG174 and couldn't get the signal low enough
[21:57] <Darkside> oh yes you'll need a*lot* more than that
[21:58] <TT7> do you mean in length or cable quality?
[21:58] <Darkside> i mean in attenuators
[21:58] <Darkside> though cable length too
[21:58] <Darkside> and both the transmit and receive modules really need to be in shielded boxes
[21:58] <Darkside> well, metal boxes
[22:00] <TT7> there is a couple of images here https://tt7hab.blogspot.cz/2018/04/the-lora-ssdv.html
[22:00] <Darkside> so for attenuators i used a HP 355D on one end, and a 0-90 dB 'binary' attenuator at the other end
[22:00] <TT7> of the attenuators I used
[22:00] <nigle> Cable quality matters too, with shitty cable the signal leaks out of the transmitter end of things and can leak back into the cable at the receiver end and thus bypass the attenuators.
[22:00] <Darkside> that way i could adjust the attenuation in one 1db steps
[22:00] <Darkside> yes, i had issues with leakage through RG174 shield
[22:01] <Darkside> i ended up using RG400 for patch leads, and LMR400 for the long run of cable to move the transmitter to the other side fo the house
[22:02] <Darkside> i put the 'bulk' attenuation at the transmitter end
[22:02] <Darkside> and then do the fine control to work out the MDS level at the receiver end
[22:03] <Darkside> bbl
[22:03] <TT7> my intention was stepping the output power of the transmitter 2-17dBm through the 120dB in attenuation and collecting data on at what level different Lora receivers start receiving packets in different modes
[22:06] <daveake> I bought some kit to do that ... some 30dB fixed attenuators plus a programmable one. One day I'll get round to doing the testing :)
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[22:14] <TT7> I wonder whether some of the more expensive Lora modules are closer to the theoretical sensitivity than these cheap ones
[22:15] <TT7> it might be worth the investment at least on the receiver side for the high speed SSDV
[22:17] <TT7> I did some link budget calculations and Lora mode 4 on 434MHz at 1mW output power had range of just about 12km
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[22:18] <TT7> with a 10.5dBi yagi
[22:19] <bertrik> would be nice to use the-things-network for receiving telemetry, it worked great for a balloon launched in the netherlands, but the network is not as dense in the uk
[22:19] <bertrik> sorry, I mean, in the uk the network is not as dense as it is in the netherlands
[22:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HL1 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HL1
[22:20] <TT7> i'm in the Czech Republic.. it's probably even worse here :)
[22:22] <TT7> I think the closest Lora receiver, at least in hab term, is in Poland
[22:22] <daveake> I might have a go at that for the novelty factor, but I don't think it would be that useful compared to the HAB LoRa network
[22:22] <daveake> Closest here is about 25km I think, but that's not generally the direction that balloons go in :/.
[22:23] <daveake> And in that direction I can get HABs down to 100m or so AGL
[22:25] <Darkside> also you can do better than LoRa for high speed images ;-)
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[22:42] <daveake> :/
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[23:17] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0314 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
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[23:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3710959 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3710959
[23:19] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3820672 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3820672
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[23:26] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3550497 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3550497
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[23:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4640318 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4640318
[23:41] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RSIST after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RSIST
[23:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N0310305 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N0310305
[23:57] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N2510555 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N2510555
[00:00] --- Tue May 1 2018