highaltitude.log.20180419

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[00:10] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3430211 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3430211
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[01:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N2440399 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N2440399
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[05:05] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4130727 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4130727
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[05:17] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4750183 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4750183
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[05:21] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3740816 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3740816
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[05:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4620738 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4620738
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[06:03] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP9UOB-P28 after 034 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP9UOB-P28
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[07:33] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03EA3HGM-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=EA3HGM-11
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[08:12] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ASC1 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ASC1
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[08:47] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SITS-5 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SITS-5
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[09:10] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_L4333819 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_L4333819
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[09:20] <PE2BZ> Mike-SA6BSS good morning, at which point do you feed the RS41 with the OM3BC firmware to go around the power button ?
[09:23] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SITS-4 after 033 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SITS-4
[09:26] <PE2BZ> !payload sits-5
[09:26] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Can't find a flight doc matching your query
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[09:32] <PB0AHX-Herman> !payload ASC1
[09:32] <SpacenearUS> 03PB0AHX-Herman: Can't find a flight doc matching your query
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[09:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PE2BZ - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PE2BZ
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[10:14] <arjunnaha> Quick question for all: if you had a fairly large budget, what would be impressive, and original for a launch. Im putting together a plan at the moment but asides from the usual cameras and data loggers, is there anything we could do differently? Something youve wanted to do, but never had the time/budget? :)
[10:18] <dehuman> do environmental sampling
[10:18] <dehuman> (what in particular i dont know)
[10:20] <arjunnaha> I was going to research the use of the the following sensors: Temperature, Humidity, Pressure, Carbon Dioxide/Monoxide, Other gases (oxygen, nitrogen), Radiation, Light level
[10:20] <dehuman> hrm maybe https://www.epa.gov/air-sensor-toolbox has some ideas https://www.epa.gov/air-sensor-toolbox/how-use-air-sensors-air-sensor-guidebook
[10:21] <arjunnaha> Ah nice, that looks interesting!
[10:21] <dehuman> https://www.epa.gov/air-sensor-toolbox/evaluation-emerging-air-pollution-sensor-performance has some specifics
[10:22] <arjunnaha> The challenge will be hunting for sensors I can use with a Pi
[10:22] <dehuman> NO2: MiCS-2710, O3: MiCS-2611 from SGX SensorTech
[10:23] <dehuman> well you might need some other electronics to actually poll the sensor and just talk back to the pi via ic2 / spi / uart
[10:24] <dehuman> since its not really suitable for realtime applications unless you maybe are running an RTOS which would be kind of exotic and alpha at best i'd guess
[10:25] <arjunnaha> I might have to use an Arduino which might be better suited for this
[10:25] <arjunnaha> I wont transmit it down, so I wont need to get the data back to the Pi
[10:26] <dehuman> https://sgx.cdistore.com/Manufacturers/e2v/FP/metaloxide-gas-sensor/?type=10420&manf=364&cate=364:5&NavType=2&sd=true#null
[10:26] <dehuman> The MiCS-6814 is a robust MEMS sensor for the
[10:26] <dehuman> detection of pollution from automobile exhausts and for
[10:28] <dehuman> agricultural/industrial odors.
[10:28] <dehuman> that'd be pretty neet. there is one that does hydrocarbons too
[10:28] <arjunnaha> Oo, Id love to do that
[10:28] <arjunnaha> That would be really interesting
[10:29] <dehuman> https://sgx.cdistore.com/ProductDetail/MICSVZ89TE-SGX-Sensortech-Limited/598202/
[10:30] <dehuman> that is indoor air quality so there might be some limitations to applying it in the wide open sky
[10:30] <dehuman> like operating parameters or data range
[10:30] <arjunnaha> Ill have to look at the data sheets
[10:30] <dehuman> but thats neet because its integrated and talks i2c. just tells you ppm / ppb
[10:30] <arjunnaha> And try and find a UK supplier
[10:30] <dehuman> its only like $20 too
[10:31] <arjunnaha> Ill also have to try and get it calibrated to a degree
[10:31] <arjunnaha> Last time, the temp sensor I used was way off norm values
[10:32] <dehuman> also the particulate matter sensors
[10:33] <arjunnaha> I think RS do a calibration service, not sure how theyll do sensors like these
[10:33] <dehuman> https://airqualityegg.wickeddevice.com/
[10:33] <dehuman> there is that thing
[10:33] <dehuman> ve 5 models to choose from measureing a total of 7 different pollutants.
[10:34] <arjunnaha> Oh nice, that does logging as well
[10:34] <dehuman> yah and its got wifi, perhaps some hardiness in its case and such
[10:35] <dehuman> one would assume something like that is robust enough that it wouldnt need calibration
[10:35] <arjunnaha> Does it work on batteries?
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[10:35] <dehuman> or has already gone through that development phase
[10:35] <arjunnaha> Ill have to look at that in detail
[10:36] <dehuman> yah its usb powered
[10:36] <dehuman> so 5v
[10:36] <dehuman> its a lot more expensive
[10:36] <arjunnaha> Ah cool, a small battery pack should do then
[10:37] <arjunnaha> Is it for sale at the moment?
[10:37] <dehuman> dunno, looks like there is a 3 week lead time
[10:37] <dehuman> for at least the one i looked at
[10:37] <dehuman> then you have the electrochemical sensors
[10:37] <dehuman> https://sgx.cdistore.com/Manufacturers/e2v/FP/electrochemical-gas-sensor/?type=10418&manf=364&cate=364:3&NavType=2&sd=true#null
[10:38] <dehuman> from sensortech
[10:38] <dehuman> i'm guessing they are a bit more finicky
[10:38] <dehuman> they are a bit more $ too
[10:38] <arjunnaha> Thats not too much of a problem
[10:38] <dehuman> but you can do like all kinds of stuff. and alot go down to 0ppm
[10:38] <arjunnaha> Just in need of an accurate and reliable sensor pack/individual sensors
[10:39] <arjunnaha> The data from this will be really interesting
[10:39] <dehuman> if i had the money and time and such that'd be the kind of data i'd really be interested in
[10:39] <dehuman> i'm guessing you could probably talk to some pro environmental science guys too, to get some guidance
[10:40] <arjunnaha> Well hopefully, I should be launching summer next year. If any of those sensors make it on board, Ill definitely publish the data!
[10:40] <dehuman> "hey i'm gonna launch this balloon and have room and $ for an environmental sensor package -- any tips? anything you want to see?"
[10:41] <dehuman> they might have some experience with certain sensors, and I'm also sure they'd be interested in the data
[10:41] <dehuman> and perhaps could help you get higher quality data
[10:41] <arjunnaha> Ha, sounds like a plan. Ill try and get in contact with the local university to see if they can help
[10:42] <arjunnaha> And maybe recommend/let me borrow any professional quality equipment
[10:42] <Ian__> I guess that any sensor that interests you will have to operate reliably at the expected low temperatures.
[10:42] <dehuman> Instruction Guide and Macro Analysis Tool for Community-led Air Monitoring
[10:42] <dehuman> https://www.epa.gov/air-research/instruction-guide-and-macro-analysis-tool-community-led-air-monitoring
[10:42] <dehuman> oh for certain Ian, i think you will probably be operating on the edge of the use case for most sensors
[10:43] <dehuman> perhaps even the manufactuer would be interested to know what you are up to. *shrug* email is cheap, phone calls arent that expensive either (time wise)
[10:43] <arjunnaha> Im guessing most of the professional type sensors will be able to handle the conditions? Maybe the cheaper sensors wont be able to handle them that well
[10:44] <arjunnaha> Afk for a bit! Physics class!
[10:44] <dehuman> check in and let us know what you do
[10:45] <dehuman> i'd be very interested
[10:45] <dehuman> that EPA site looks pretty rich. i'd definately comb over that
[10:46] <dehuman> EPA scientists created operating guides for several low-cost air sensors listed below that are currently on the market. These guides are meant to assist users with operating, troubleshooting and calibrating the sensors.
[10:46] <dehuman> for example
[10:46] <dehuman> https://www.epa.gov/air-sensor-toolbox/air-sensor-toolbox-resources-and-funding#SOP
[10:47] <Mike-SA6BSS> PE2BZ: after flashing the fw I disable the power button in settings
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[10:54] <Mike-SA6BSS> ah, you ment where do I put the + 0- leads?
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[10:57] <Mike-SA6BSS> the two top right in the unused ic footprint works well, can get you a better pic when I get home tonight
[10:57] <Mike-SA6BSS> https://imgur.com/PJBoVar
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[10:58] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03test_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=test_chase
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[11:11] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4130731 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4130731
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[11:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3640191 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3640191
[11:21] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_M4613493 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_M4613493
[11:25] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N2340417 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N2340417
[11:29] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4620404 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4620404
[11:30] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CHANGEME - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CHANGEME
[11:34] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK4TEC_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VK4TEC_chase
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[11:54] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0313 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
[11:56] <PE2BZ> Mike-SA6BSS the RS41 is in full sun now, the red and green led´s are on, but no rtty transmission, any idea ?
[11:57] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RSIST after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RSIST
[11:58] <gonzo_> if anyone wants some lunchtime viewing, the ISS schools contact has just started
[11:58] <gonzo_> https://live.ariss.org/
[12:04] <PE2BZ> tnx gonzo_
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[12:14] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PILOTS-BL after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PILOTS-BL
[12:14] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4810922 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4810922
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[12:32] <gonzo_> how did it go? I had to go out
[12:35] <PE2BZ> Quite nice. All questions answered :-)
[12:35] <PE2BZ> Easy to receive over here 4 minutes after they had contact, on the omnidirectional
[12:36] <craag> glad you enjoyed it :)
[12:36] <craag> venue was a very tough one - city center of warwick
[12:37] <gonzo_> nice. I missed it I'm afriaid
[12:37] <PE2BZ> How do you get the children that interested. I would not know how to get classmates of my 2 sons (14 and 16) interested for space communication
[12:37] <gonzo_> I assume it wasn't the trailer tower this time?
[12:38] <PE2BZ> no idea what you mean by that ?
[12:39] <craag> gonzo_: scaffold on the side of a buildings
[12:40] <craag> nowhere to park our cars, let alone the tower
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[13:09] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ABERD - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ABERD
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[14:14] <Mike-SA6BSS> PE2BZ: Ino idea, I had it in the sun all working good but was verry windy so it was flapping arounf like hell and fell to the ground and made a quick test but could not get it to run after that :/
[14:15] <Mike-SA6BSS> will test more tonight
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[14:16] <Mike-SA6BSS> running 3,3V on those terminals
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[14:22] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SSTAR0229 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SSTAR0229
[14:24] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SSTAR0232 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SSTAR0232
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[14:27] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SSTAR0233 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SSTAR0233
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[15:42] <PE2BZ> thanks Mike !
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[16:16] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PE2BZ after 036 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PE2BZ
[16:21] <PE2BZ> Mike-SA6BSS it runs on solar now. Only thing changed (I did not cut the PCB bottom) is that I removed the powerbutton but have it enabled in software.
[16:21] <PE2BZ> reporting 0.5 V battery :-(
[16:22] OZ1SKY_Brian (~Brian@x1-6-a4-08-f5-17-93-3a.cpe.webspeed.dk) joined #highaltitude.
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[16:27] <PE2BZ> There it is, laying with it´s face to the sun https://imgur.com/a/52M0G95
[16:28] YO9GJX (~YO9GJX@109.99.23.188) joined #highaltitude.
[16:30] <PE2BZ> with a weight of 30 gram at this moment
[16:38] bertrik (~bertrik@rockbox/developer/bertrik) joined #highaltitude.
[16:39] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KG5IFR after 037 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KG5IFR
[16:54] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HAPROS - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HAPROS
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[16:59] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3630154 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3630154
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[17:31] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CALLSIGN123_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CALLSIGN123_chase
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[17:43] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03U3B-14 after 0319 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=U3B-14
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[18:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N2620508 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N2620508
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[19:03] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N2410503 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N2410503
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[19:22] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SSTAR0235 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SSTAR0235
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[19:42] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03M6 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M6
[19:42] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LSP-1_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=LSP-1_chase
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[21:47] <noid> Hello hello!
[21:47] <noid> I'm biulding a balloon to launch in the next month, from Switzerland!
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[21:47] <noid> What is your experience with hab tracking? Which one would you advice? :)
[21:48] <noid> It's so coool this world!
[21:49] <bertrik> noid: this is the channel where all the experts are! (but not me)
[21:50] <noid> Glad I found the correct place!
[21:50] <noid> So guess we will wait for the experts :P
[21:50] <noid> You know if there is also something like a facebook page or group?
[21:51] <bertrik> there is the ukhas mailing list
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[21:52] <Mike-SA6BSS> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/ukhas
[21:52] <bertrik> this website has a wiki with a LOT of information https://ukhas.org.uk/
[21:55] <Mike-SA6BSS> There is RTTY Lora and aprs, rtty and lora you can do without a radio amature licence but if you go with aprs you need a licence
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[21:56] <bertrik> a month is not a lot of time to get everything set up
[21:58] <bertrik> it can help a lot to track/receive other people's balloons first, so you get familiar with the equipment, software, etc.
[21:58] <Mike-SA6BSS> if you have expensive cameras on etc, some kind of backup tracker should be good
[21:58] <Mike-SA6BSS> or gps tracker
[22:02] <noid> What is the difference between ukhas and aprs? Actually I don't think I have time to take a license, but I have enough budget to implement two systems for the tracking
[22:03] <russss> it's illegal to use APRS airborne in the UK (and some other EU countries)
[22:03] <noid> But I really need to find the payload back, so I must have something that assure me the retrieval
[22:03] <russss> so the UKHAS approach is kind of a workaround, but it also has some other advantages.
[22:03] <noid> I would exclude aprs due to the fact of the licenses
[22:04] <noid> Is lora easy to implement?
[22:07] <bertrik> lora is a "digital" mode, much more wideband than RTYY, you can't really listen to it like you can to rtty I think
[22:07] <mfa298> you could look at buying the Pi In The Sky kit and/or habduino which give you prebuilt trackers.
[22:08] <mfa298> although there's not always a 100% gaurentee with any tracker of recovery (payloads have a habit of landing in difficult to get places)
[22:09] <bertrik> balloons are attracted by trees :)
[22:11] <bertrik> it may also be a nice idea to carry a the-things-network node, I think switzerland has a pretty good coverage of receivers
[22:12] <noid> In that case you mean I should take a gateway in the car I use to follow the balloon?
[22:13] <noid> @bertrik I can climb ahah but what if it finishes inside a lake?
[22:13] <noid> How much is habhub correct?
[22:14] <bertrik> yes, I think you'd need that. Once a balloon is up at 10km altitude you get phenomenal range with lora (100s of kilometers), but if it's on the ground the range is quite limited
[22:15] <bertrik> noid: what do you mean?
[22:16] <noid> If I make a prediction with habhub, a simulation of flight, with correct data, how much should I trust it?
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[22:17] <mfa298> you need things to receive the balloon telemetry in your chase car, things like rtty and lora require you to run suitable receivers and software in your car (and ideally try and get others to help track as well)
[22:18] <noid> I see what you mean, basically my problem is when it falls because then the radio cover should get lower, but gps-gms in that case would be optimal?
[22:18] <bertrik> I'm not sure, I think you can generally trust the approximate location where it's going to burst
[22:18] <noid> So I can put both and pray god ? ahah
[22:18] <mfa298> predictions will help show the area things should land in, but they're relaint on the input data which isn't always perfect. They're good to give an indication of whether to launch or not.
[22:19] <bertrik> also, you can never be really sure at what altitude the burst is going to happen
[22:19] <noid> mfa298 we will be a lot and it will be like a treasure hunt ahaha there is a good budget behind the event, what would you advice?
[22:20] <mfa298> the rough estimation of how well GSM stuff works is about 50%, GSM is aimed at populated places where the device is held around head height. It's not designed for a ditch in the middle of the countryside (where you should be aiming for your payload to land)
[22:22] <noid> How much do you think that will cost the system with lora?
[22:22] <mfa298> I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but SPOT might be better than GSM if you want a backup system.
[22:23] <noid> I should just consider arudino, habduino, lora module to launch and lora gateway to bring with me?
[22:23] <noid> I've read spot often fail
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[22:24] <mfa298> SPOT may not be ideal (I don't think it reports altitude and breaks above 12 or 18km) but it's probably better than GSM if you want a backup.
[22:25] <noid> Mmm okay I note that
[22:25] <noid> I'll document some more about it
[22:25] <noid> But what about the lora system, do you have any useful link to share? :)
[22:25] <mfa298> it's probably worth having a read through the wiki and daveake's blog posts then ask more questions.
[22:26] <mfa298> a lot of the lora stuff has been done by daveake so you'll find plenty of detail about it on his blog
[22:26] <noid> Oh yes, I'm reading that at the same time :P
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[23:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3640277 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3640277
[23:27] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_M4613091 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_M4613091
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[23:30] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N2010189 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N2010189
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[23:47] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N0340071 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N0340071
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[23:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N2440392 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N2440392
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[00:00] --- Fri Apr 20 2018