highaltitude.log.20180326

[00:09] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_M4010463 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_M4010463
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[05:33] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03U3S23 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=U3S23
[05:39] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4620248 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4620248
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[07:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4820055 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4820055
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[07:03] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03U3B-14 after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=U3B-14
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[07:41] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SQ7ACP-11 after 036 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SQ7ACP-11
[07:42] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PILOTS-BL after 033 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PILOTS-BL
[07:48] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP5RZP-11 after 033 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP5RZP-11
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[08:55] Nick change: Kranic_ -> Kranic
[08:57] <Kranic> Geoff-G8DHE: belated thanks!
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[09:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03M0RPI_Chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M0RPI_Chase
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[11:21] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3640545 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3640545
[11:29] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_M4853078 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_M4853078
[11:30] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N2610618 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N2610618
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[11:49] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N4620140 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N4620140
[12:21] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03TT7L - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=TT7L
[12:21] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CALLSIGN123_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CALLSIGN123_chase
[12:27] <Ian_> 1m 22s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNbMC0IMIWY&cm_mmc=GB-EM-_-DSN_20180326-_-DM98353-_-VIDEO_URL&cid=DM98353&bid=721410132&index=3&list=PLv91f6GOku18QXOfbgWMg_3YuYFUblZzm
[12:28] <Ian_> daveake ^^
[12:30] <daveake> yeah, that was a fun flight. Actually 2 fun flights.
[12:31] <daveake> Might be doing another one for them soon
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[12:40] <Ian_> The item was part of the Designspark newsletter.
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[14:24] <PE2BZ> craag thanks, I have to investigate that ¨not working¨ part....
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[14:33] <craag> Checking what the fuses are currently set as would be a good first step.
[14:33] Action: PE2BZ is googling the way to check that :-)
[14:35] <PE2BZ> But I am distracted quite easy. How about a story where the sun shines on the led and feeds the ram of the arduino...
[14:41] <craag> /win 36
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[14:42] <PE2BZ> https://github.com/WestfW/fusebytes
[14:43] <craag> Do you have an AVR ISP?
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[14:43] <PE2BZ> No, just the ftdi converter and some Arduino pro mini´s
[14:43] <craag> Ah ok, in which case yeah that project looks good :)
[14:44] <PE2BZ> But it looks ok :-)
[14:44] <PE2BZ> https://pastebin.com/9MvLxAUk
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[14:54] <Ian_> http://www.engbedded.com/fusecalc/
[14:56] <craag> PE2BZ: Looks like the right settings then. What's the issue that you're having again?
[14:58] <craag> bbl
[14:59] <PE2BZ> craag my solar setup does power the Arduino with 3.3 Volt when enough solar is available. But with not enough solar the stepup only delivers about 1.8 - 1.9 V which makes the arduino fall into an unwanted state, being a single carrier untill the solar gets full shadow
[14:59] <PE2BZ> np
[15:02] <Ian_> Note max speed is determined by volatage. I think from memory that 2.7V is about the least voltage that will reliably support 8MHz
[15:02] <Ian_> Check the datasheet
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[15:03] <Ian_> for the curve, and remember to leave a tolerance so that low temperature doesn't put you against the ropes.
[15:05] <PE2BZ> thanks Ian_ I guess 3 Volt would be ok also, I just ¨need¨ the thing to go standbye and wake up when possible, not much fun in listening 10 minutes to a single ¨mark¨ in rtty :-(
[15:05] <PE2BZ> But now I see I have reasons to buy an AVR ISP programmer
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[15:08] <Ian_> You must have a second Arduino or an Atmega328p_pu chip. Use that as an ISP programmer from the Arduino IDE menu
[15:10] <Ian_> Having a 'collection' of Arduino boards, Atmega328p_pu chips or Raspberry Pi boards seems to be pretty much 'de rigeur'
[15:10] Action: PE2BZ is looking in the cookie jar
[15:11] <Ian_> If you don't happen to have an over abundance then you aren't wasting your spending money properly :) Cookie jarS
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[15:11] <PE2BZ> So, the Arduino Nano V3 could do the job ?
[15:12] <Ian_> Yup
[15:12] <PE2BZ> You just ruined the local stores you know ;-)
[15:13] <PE2BZ> But you deserved a cookie :-)
[15:13] <Ian_> Ha, but you have more for sheckles for RFM boards etc. Too many cookies here I think
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[19:03] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SATIS3 after 036 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SATIS3
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[20:01] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0315 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
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[21:24] <drohan> Hi all, quick question
[21:25] <drohan> I'm looking at testing 2way comms on a HAB through LoRa
[21:25] <drohan> Putting a dipole antenna on the palyoad and a Yagi on the ground
[21:25] <drohan> Should I build an antenna tracker for the Yagi?
[21:25] <drohan> Are they important?
[21:26] <mfa298> you're going to need to point the yagi in the right direction somehow. although unless you're really close the position shouldn't change that quickly so an auto tracker might be overkill - you can always point it manually
[21:27] <mfa298> although if you're putting a dipole on the payload, think about how it's orientated and whether that's possible to do sensibly on the payload
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[21:49] <drohan> That's a good point mfa298
[21:50] <drohan> Would you suggest using something like a wheel antenna instead?
[21:50] <Darkside> no
[21:50] <Darkside> vertically polarised antennas work fine
[21:50] <drohan> Was researching to double check, but that's good to hear
[21:50] <Darkside> most of us use a 1/4 wave monopole with a few ground radials
[21:50] <mfa298> most people use a simple monopole and ground plane on the bottom of the payload
[21:50] <Darkside> snap
[21:50] <mfa298> !wiki payload_antenna
[21:50] <SpacenearUS> 03mfa298: Wiki page 03payload_antenna (guides) - 12http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:payload_antenna
[21:50] <SpacenearUS> 03mfa298: Wiki page 03projects:picoatlas:picoatlasi - 12http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:picoatlas:picoatlasi?s[]=payload&amp;s[]=antenna
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[21:51] <Darkside> i've got a few photos showing my antenna construction method here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/caRN65bNVDWogHem1
[21:52] <drohan> Ahh yeah got it, makes sense
[21:52] <drohan> Doesn't look too difficult to make
[21:52] <Darkside> just one way of doing it, but the antenna i build this way (with the reinforced driven element connection) usually last many flights
[21:52] <drohan> Got it
[21:52] <drohan> And with a Yagi on the ground, if it's just pointed in the general direction it should be fine?
[21:53] <Darkside> yes
[21:53] <drohan> My goal is to try and test it with some LoRa modules, 2way communication would be ideal
[21:53] <Darkside> with a lora payload, you probably wont even need the yagi
[21:53] <Darkside> well, when its in teh air anyway
[21:53] <Darkside> you will have more loss over ground
[21:53] <mfa298> I tink some people have done vertical dipoles with one element above the payload and one below - but that probably takes a bit more care about where stuff goes than just doing the simple monopole
[21:54] <drohan> Darkside implying that the Yagi is overkill?
[21:54] <Darkside> have it in ase you need it
[21:54] <Darkside> in ase*
[21:54] <Darkside> ffs
[21:54] <Darkside> you know what i mean :-)
[21:54] <Darkside> i need to head off to work...
[21:55] <drohan> Wait wait, I don't think I'm entirely on the same page
[21:55] <drohan> If a Yagi is too much, what type of antenna would be suitable to cover the distance?
[21:55] <Darkside> mfa298: you take this
[21:56] <Darkside> i need to head off
[21:56] <Darkside> cya
[21:56] <drohan> Ahha alright
[21:56] <drohan> Sorry about that
[21:56] <mfa298> how accurately you need to point a yagi will depend on it's pattern (which will be related to gain). Higher gain antennas will generally have a smaller beam so need to be more accuratly pointed
[21:56] <drohan> And thanks for your help :)
[21:56] <drohan> Got it
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[21:57] <mfa298> but even for a high gain yagi within a few degrees you'll probably be good enough
[21:57] <drohan> Gotcha, that makes sense
[21:58] <drohan> Dark mentioned that with a lora payload I probably won't even need the yagi, I wasn't sure if he was implying that using such a high gain antenna might be overkill for what I'm trying to accomplish
[21:58] <mfa298> normally you'd want to be chasing the balloon so you want something that can be easily mounted on a car.
[21:58] <drohan> The plan for this one is to have a separate home-base and chase-car
[21:59] <mfa298> In most cases you might find a normal omni would do well enough for sending to a lora payload and will need less pointing.
[22:00] <drohan> Oh wow that's pretty impressive, I assumed a normal omni might not be strong enough
[22:00] <mfa298> I don't really have much experience of Lora, but others have transmitted to balloons from the ground with lora. Finding some of thier write ups might help (assuming they've written stuff)
[22:00] <drohan> I've done some googling, perhaps not enough
[22:03] <mfa298> daveake probably has some stuff on his blog, I think SUWS (mattbrejza and craag) have also used lora a bit
[22:03] <drohan> Sounds good! I'll do some more searching
[22:03] <mfa298> not sure how much of the SUWS stuff has been written up
[22:05] <craag> (lol)
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[22:06] <mfa298> being a University into it's open data you'd hope lots of it would be written up :P
[22:06] <craag> The binary format we used is currently in active development.
[22:06] <craag> towards merging it into dave's lora gateway
[22:07] <craag> so for now, the legacy format is to send an ascii UKHAS rtty-style string.
[22:07] <craag> Have a look at the pi in the sky code / documentation as an example.
[22:08] <mfa298> the question was more about uplinking to the HAB with lora and what sort of antennas was needed (which I think you've done a few times with success)
[22:08] <craag> oh sorry
[22:09] <craag> so we uplinked with just a normal chase magmount
[22:09] <craag> and 10mW
[22:09] <drohan> Oh awesome!
[22:09] <drohan> Great to hear
[22:10] <craag> That was using 62.5KHz SF12
[22:11] <craag> We were nearly underneath though
[22:13] <drohan> Transmitting and receiving on 62.5 KHz?
[22:13] <drohan> The ones I was planning to use were on the 70cm band
[22:14] <craag> uplink was on 62.5KHz. Which you can use with a <10% duty cycle (not an issue for occasional commands)
[22:15] <daveake> That's bandwidth not carrier frequency
[22:15] <craag> downlink was 20.8KHz so we could do ~100% (except breaks to allow listening for uplink)
[22:15] <craag> hah yes sorry
[22:15] <craag> I'm not doing well at this conversation thing, this evening..
[22:15] <daveake> :)
[22:16] <craag> to clarify, yes this was on ISM 70cm band (as normally used for rtty)
[22:16] <daveake> I've had 20.8k uplinks (from a collinear in my loft) and that worked well
[22:17] <daveake> Also 62k uplink and, erm, sideways link :) which also worked well ,:)
[22:17] <drohan> Ahh I see
[22:18] <craag> the wider bandwidths cope better with rx/tx freq misalignment, which I think was our motivation for 62k.
[22:18] <drohan> Got it, makes sense
[22:18] <daveake> I've only bothered with a yagi for higher bandwidth stuff on 868
[22:19] <drohan> Would you recommend one for a 434 MHz setup?
[22:19] <daveake> It's mainly the bandwidth/power settings rather than frequency
[22:20] <daveake> On 869.something we can use 300kHz and then you did need a yagi for reasonable range
[22:20] <drohan> Got it
[22:20] <daveake> Up to 62kHz is fine without yagi
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[22:21] <drohan> Understood
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[23:15] <drohan> Hey craag or daveake, do you guys have a listing anywhere of the specific LoRa modules you used for the flight you mentioned earlier?
[23:16] <craag> These ones: https://store.uputronics.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=61
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[23:16] <craag> (The hoperf RFM9x)
[23:19] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N2620033 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N2620033
[23:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N3710326 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N3710326
[23:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N1850223 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N1850223
[23:27] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N1950088 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N1950088
[23:31] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_M4853086 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_M4853086
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[23:37] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03AD4XX-11 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AD4XX-11
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[23:58] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RS_N0320291 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RS_N0320291
[00:00] --- Tue Mar 27 2018