highaltitude.log.20180112

[00:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03N0110265 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N0110265
[00:04] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03M1413500 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M1413500
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[01:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03M4416057 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M4416057
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[07:35] <w_larsen> hello
[07:36] <Mike-SA6BSS> gm
[07:37] <Darkside> evening
[07:49] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CALLSIGN123_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CALLSIGN123_chase
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[08:19] <spacey> Hi all - question about launch announcements/configuration.
[08:19] <spacey> I see people posting things like: LoRa mode 1 is Implicit mode, Error coding 4:5, Bandwidth 20.8kHz, SF 6, LDO Off
[08:19] <spacey> I have only seen software that allows me to set "Lora Mode = 1"
[08:19] <spacey> where do all the other settings come in?
[08:20] <Darkside> daveake: ^
[08:20] <spacey> Hi Dave - yes, that is your launch announcement!
[08:21] <Darkside> i think lora mode 1 refers to that collection of settings
[08:22] <spacey> ahh ok so if I am using a PITS and set "LORA_Mode_0=1" in pisky.txt then those settings are automatically set?
[08:22] <spacey> is there a summary of what these settings are for each LoRa mode?
[08:22] <Darkside> dunno
[08:22] <Darkside> question for daveake again
[08:22] <Darkside> i dont use those settings on my flights
[08:22] <Darkside> but then again i'm the only one receiving the lora signals on my flights, so it doesnt matter
[08:23] <craag> spacey: https://github.com/PiInTheSky/pits/blob/master/tracker/lora.c#L57-L65
[08:24] <craag> 0-indexed (ie. first row is Mode 0)
[08:24] <spacey> ahh ha! Thanks!
[08:26] <Ian_> http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=1719 Google realy is your friend
[08:27] <spacey> Well I googled and found this (http://cpham.perso.univ-pau.fr/LORA/resources/toa.jpg) yesterday but it didn't seem to match up.
[08:27] <Ian_> Neat table craag. Happy New
[08:27] <Ian_> Year
[08:28] <craag> HNY Ian_ How's things?
[08:29] <Ian_> Doing OK. A slow winter . . . Looking forward to a HAB season and hopefully a Conference again this year.
[08:30] <craag> yes that'd be good.
[08:31] <Ian_> I never did find out what happened about Rocket Boy's Operation Outward recreation (lorra, lorra balloons)
[08:31] <Ian_> Must catch him on one day and ask.
[08:32] <spacey> As an aside - does anyone know of any training/help available in the southwest UK? I want to get onto skycademy but it doesn't seem to be running any more.
[08:32] <craag> yeah.. sounded like a really fun project
[08:32] <craag> spacey: how southwest?
[08:33] <spacey> Well I live in Bristol, but the school I work in is Somerset
[08:33] <spacey> Near there would be best but I can travel
[08:33] <craag> Ok, I used to help out with a lot of school launches as part of https://susf.co.uk/
[08:33] <craag> (Southampton Uni)
[08:34] <craag> If you drop an email to admin@susf.co.uk then they may be able to help you out.
[08:34] <spacey> ahh ok. Thanks a lot.
[08:36] <spacey> I am so happy this community exists and I am sorry for all the obvious questions I am asking.
[08:37] <craag> No problem at all, we all started where you are :)
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[09:15] <daveake> spacey: I answered that one yesterday see the gateway page on github
[09:16] <daveake> Add I live in the south West ...
[09:33] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SITS-3 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SITS-3
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[09:57] <spacey> SpacenearUS the prediction looks a little off!
[09:58] <spacey> daveake: sorry i didn't see you answer it yesterday. I think I mist have lost the connection or something while I was driving home.
[09:58] <daveake> no worries
[09:59] <spacey> I thought you might because I saw you were launching from Ross. It is a little far from us as a launch site but it seems like a common one.
[10:00] <spacey> daveake: are you the " M0RPI/5"?
[10:00] <daveake> yes
[10:01] <spacey> ahh ha. very near mu cousins!
[10:05] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03MILLCHASE_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MILLCHASE_chase
[10:10] <spacey> Is it best to launch from the highest local area?
[10:11] <day> without ever having started one, i think it depends on how much lift your balloon has and how much wind there is
[10:12] <SpeedEvil> Probably not.
[10:12] <SpeedEvil> Because there the wind will be highest, considerably making your launch harder.
[10:13] <SpeedEvil> At the rate balloons typically rise, they rapidly clear obstructions unless you launch right next to them - there is no need to launch in a particularly clear area unless you have a very low rise rate
[10:13] <spacey> ok - but i guess you want there to be no trees and building nearby. Could run a quick calculation to work out if it would hit obstructions.
[10:13] <spacey> Just seeing if we could launch from within our school grounds.
[10:14] <SpeedEvil> If the wind is 10m/s for example (20mph) and the balloon is rising at 5m/s, then it's going up at 30 degrees from the launch site
[10:14] <daveake> Depends on wind vs ascent rate
[10:14] <SpeedEvil> That is pretty much 'not in the shadow of' almost rather than particularly far away from distant obstructions.
[10:14] <spacey> yeah
[10:15] <daveake> Having trees/buildings can be useful as they provide shelter from the wind
[10:15] <spacey> and what is the best way of reliably predicting decent rate?
[10:15] <vaizki> math
[10:15] <daveake> You mean descent rate ?
[10:16] <daveake> The maths is quite simple - worth doing in a physics class
[10:16] <spacey> yes descent rate sorry!
[10:17] <spacey> Yeah, I am no physicist but I am sure we can figure that one out. I guess just knowing the properties of the parachute and mass
[10:17] <daveake> Yup
[10:17] <spacey> though won't it change as it descends and the air pressure increases?
[10:18] <daveake> And after that you can plot a curve of altitude vs descent rate, using an atmospheric model. This is stuff that's ideal to include in a secondary school project.
[10:18] <daveake> Yes it changes enormously
[10:20] <vaizki> air density is the key.. it will be dropping like a stone first and slowing down gradually
[10:20] <daveake> For a quick answer, Steve (seller of ballons and chutes and stuff) has a calculator to give you the landing descent rate http://randomaerospace.com/Random_Aerospace/Parachutes.html
[10:20] <spacey> ahh but still very predictable. Cool i will look into it
[10:20] <daveake> yes very
[10:21] <daveake> well, the theortical value is very predictable, but chutes can glide and spiral
[10:22] <spacey> yeah, but that is fine to ignore as a prediction and school project.
[10:22] <spacey> We have a fair few students with different talents so setting off one group making prediction with the maths while others solder and program would be ideal.
[10:25] <vaizki> there is also physical payload box construction, testing it in the chest freezer, throwing it down the stairs, kitting out a chase car, etc
[10:27] <daveake> and writing the project up as a newsletter, or making a web site about it, interviewing students ... lots of activities that might trigger careers
[10:29] <spacey> Oh yeah. We have 2 on marketing as well and one on "science" who is trying to work out a science experiment that we could do up in space. (Thin he has bitten off more than he can chew though - told him that we should focus on just launching first!)
[10:37] <spacey> is this a good model to use? https://www.grc.nasa.gov/www/k-12/airplane/atmosmet.html
[10:37] <spacey> it seems to assume that temp at sea level is 15.04C
[10:38] <spacey> certainly not at the moment!
[10:40] <daveake> That looks familiar. Of course the result will depend on weather conditions but I wouldn't worry about that.
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[10:53] <spacey> Seems like there is quite a range for Cd values. 0.75 -> 1.75
[10:53] <spacey> I guess it also depends on how the chute is measured
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[10:58] <_Jordan> Alright guys. Not heard anything from SITS-3 for 11 mins now. The freq is 434.350, bd 300, 8N2
[10:58] <_Jordan> note to self. re-include flight docs into my launchday procedure.
[10:58] <daveake> Needs to be pre launch day really
[10:59] <_Jordan> Yeah, thats what I think I meant :)
[10:59] <daveake> Especially weekdays, when people will get their kit set up at home before they leave for work, if they know
[10:59] <g8fjg> looks like 434.362 to me
[10:59] <_Jordan> 362 instead. Okay thats fine too.
[11:00] <_Jordan> Thats so that PE2BZ and listeners in that area can here us.
[11:00] <G8KNN> It's very weak
[11:00] <g8fjg> suspect antenna off .
[11:00] <_Jordan> The launch team report no issues on the ground before launch. Could be a ground plane issue.
[11:01] <daveake> Lack of ground plane can only halve the signal, if that
[11:01] <PE2BZ> _Jordan I am listening ;-)
[11:01] <_Jordan> Sweet PE2BZ lets hope we can upload a position soon... :)
[11:02] <daveake> And as you probably no, even no aerial at all will still work on the ground if the receiver is close
[11:02] <daveake> know
[11:02] <g8fjg> just 10 over here at best...down to noise
[11:02] <_Jordan> Yeah so antenna ish then.
[11:04] <_Jordan> oh daveake I saw your telnet blog post. really interesting in my opinion. Good job!
[11:04] <_Jordan> Still struggling with my LoRa setup 6 months later ...:
[11:05] <g8fjg> beware the reverse sma ;-)
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[11:08] <spacey> it's been picked up again _Jordan
[11:08] <_Jordan> Yeah thats good. The chase team are right beneath it.
[11:08] <_Jordan> Lucky I guess.
[11:12] <_Jordan> It's gunna be on and off the whole way
[11:21] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03M2443176 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M2443176
[11:21] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03M4336113 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M4336113
[11:22] <fsphil> here come the sondes
[11:22] <Darkside> :P
[11:24] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03M4613488 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M4613488
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[11:40] <g8fjg> $$ITS-3,2850,11:38:59,42.90928,-2.01859,27658,150,85,12,11.4,41,0.175*CF94 close but no cigar
[11:42] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RSIST after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RSIST
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[11:45] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RSISP after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RSISP
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[11:55] <Mike-SA6BSS> sits flying fast + 250km/h !!
[11:55] <spacey> How does my curve look? Fairly rough calculations, but hopefully this looks suitable https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/VeqbM_gB0EwQu1NGpaehqs6Z0MevCJD7XiV19a3H5HmyTXYXpPRuAshiiW0mH5VbL59892obNf8ICXzXYUll9toEhYZZKgRJln1NNtojqxCEl0WJsQ=w1175
[11:56] <Mike-SA6BSS> cant access
[11:56] <Mike-SA6BSS> 403 forbiden
[11:58] <spacey> https://sites.google.com/view/hab-launch/descent-curve
[11:58] <spacey> try that instead
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[12:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03tA4AEI_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=tA4AEI_chase
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[12:00] <Mike-SA6BSS> burst
[12:01] <spacey> hmm?
[12:01] <Mike-SA6BSS> spacey: works
[12:02] <spacey> Cool - at the moment it is just calculating the terminal velocity at each altitude
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[12:28] <g8fjg> SITS-3,3858,12:26816,52.84486,-0.50918,03175,11,18,12,9.3,4.1,0.175*20ED last reasonable decode
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[12:31] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03N1640023 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N1640023
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[13:04] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03N1040287 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N1040287
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[13:36] <spacey> _Jordan: did you manage to find it?
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[14:55] <spacey> Is there a correct way o flushing your tracker off the habhub map?
[14:55] <spacey> or are they meant to just idle off?
[15:01] <craag> spacey: They'd idle off after the period of time shown in the filter in top-left
[15:02] <spacey> Ok. I wasn't sure if there was a "clean" way of removing them
[15:02] <craag> No, the idea is that the database stores every flight. forever. :)
[15:04] <spacey> ahh - thats cool. Just that I didn't want to clog it up with tests of equipment!
[15:05] <daveake> No, test away
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[15:11] <craag> !track 3bbad842c06828b08556048b3d1b462d
[15:11] <SpacenearUS> 03craag: Here you go - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=3bbad842c06828b08556048b3d1b462d
[15:12] <craag> ^^ the time I lost a keychain video camera to trees 5y ago :D
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[15:45] <spacey> Ha!
[15:46] <spacey> Well I just received my two aerials - hoping to do my own tests with LoRa tracker and gateway in the coming weeks then it will be quiet as students try to get to my level!
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[16:37] GyroW (~GyroW@ptr-47bydjojo7idzi5otjc.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) got netsplit.
[16:37] DrLuke (~quassel@2a04:52c0:101:98:f8d4:7467:46c0:98be) got netsplit.
[16:37] shiftplusone (~shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) got netsplit.
[16:37] kc2pit (~bunsen@ignignokt.mudkips.net) returned to #highaltitude.
[16:37] DrLuke (~quassel@2a04:52c0:101:98:f8d4:7467:46c0:98be) returned to #highaltitude.
[16:37] shiftplusone (~shift@unaffiliated/shiftplusone) returned to #highaltitude.
[16:37] GyroW (~GyroW@ptr-47bydjojo7idzi5otjc.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be) returned to #highaltitude.
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[16:41] <M0NBA> Operation Outward?
[16:48] Mike-SA6BSS (~Mike-SA6B@155.4.221.109) got lost in the net-split.
[16:48] <Ian_> Original: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=operation+outward&oq=operation+outward&aqs=chrome..69i57.5420j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
[16:55] <Ian_> M0NBA https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/ukhas/PdCApwXOg6c
[16:57] <M0NBA> Ian_: Thanks
[16:59] matb (~matb@104.206.241.26) joined #highaltitude.
[16:59] matb (~matb@104.206.241.26) left irc: Client Quit
[17:00] <Ian_> Didn't hear any more about it, so not sure that the recreation took place or not. I will have to ask.
[17:01] matb (~matb@104.206.241.26) joined #highaltitude.
[17:01] <M0NBA> When was it supposed to be?
[17:02] sumie-dh (~sumie-dh@cst2-62-95.cust.vodafone.cz) left irc: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[17:03] <Ian_> Not exactly sure
[17:06] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03MILLCHASE_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MILLCHASE_chase
[17:07] YO9GJX (~YO9GJX@109.99.23.188) joined #highaltitude.
[17:11] Guest40762 (~iposi3@cpe-85-10-26-226.dynamic.amis.net) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
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[17:18] _Jordan (5ec71cc2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.199.28.194) left irc: Quit: Page closed
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[18:00] bertrik (~bertrik@rockbox/developer/bertrik) joined #highaltitude.
[18:03] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03WESTG - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WESTG
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[18:34] hackvana (~hackvana@2400:6180:0:d0::535:e001) got netsplit.
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[18:35] Nick change: hackvana- -> hackvana
[18:35] Possible future nick collision: hackvana
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[19:08] Bob_ZL1RS (~Bob@165.241.224.49.dyn.cust.vf.net.nz) joined #highaltitude.
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[20:41] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BSS13 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BSS13
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[23:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03N1630309 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N1630309
[23:29] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03M2513570 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M2513570
[23:34] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03M4613076 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M4613076
[23:44] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03N1640172 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N1640172
[23:47] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RSIST after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RSIST
[23:47] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03M1413469 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M1413469
[23:48] <Darkside> lol
[23:48] <Darkside> the flood of sondes
[23:48] <Darkside> my bad
[23:53] <udat> :D
[23:53] <fsphil> a sky full of stm32s
[23:53] <Darkside> well
[23:53] <Darkside> not over here
[23:53] <fsphil> ah not switched yet?
[23:54] <Darkside> nope, still RS92s
[23:54] <udat> fsphil: if one lands between us, do we need to fight for it?
[23:54] <Darkside> a few more months...
[23:54] <Darkside> udat: are you the other irishman?
[23:55] <udat> well I'm a displaced scottish man but yes :)
[23:55] <Darkside> hah ok
[23:55] <Darkside> and yes, you need to fight to the death
[23:55] <fsphil> two chasers enter (the field) one chaser leaves (with the payload)
[23:55] <Darkside> :D
[23:55] <fsphil> thundersonde
[23:56] <udat> highlander, there can be only one
[00:00] --- Sat Jan 13 2018