highaltitude.log.20171202

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[00:09] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BB01 after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BB01
[00:10] <Darkside> labjg: what date are you launching again?
[00:17] <gonzo_> a byte takes about 10 bits to send (8 data byts pluss a few for framing), so 300bd will be about 30bytes per second
[00:18] <Darkside> realistically the 'delay' (i.e. time between the payload being at a given location, and you receiving that information) is nto that critical
[00:18] <Darkside> for a balloon payload anyway
[00:18] <gonzo_> so divide your packet size by the chr/sec and you will get the time taken to send that packet
[00:19] <walrus1111> Okay
[00:19] <gonzo_> I think he (or she) is referring to the time to send/decode a frame
[00:20] <walrus1111> https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[00:20] <walrus1111> Looking at this for reference
[00:20] <walrus1111> Under the software serial section
[00:20] <walrus1111> // delayMicroseconds(3370); // 300 baud delayMicroseconds(10000); // For 50 Baud uncomment this and the line below. delayMicroseconds(10150); // You can't do 20150 it just doesn't work as the // largest value that will produce an accurate delay is 16383 // See : http://arduino.cc/en/Reference/DelayMicroseconds
[00:20] <walrus1111> That's not super pretty, but
[00:20] <walrus1111> It has different delays for different baud rates
[00:21] <gonzo_> yep, it's a bit of a dirty way of doing timing
[00:21] <walrus1111> for 300 baud you use a delay of 3370 ms, and for 50 baud it's 20150
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[00:21] <gonzo_> you can assume that you will have done all your measurements and framed up your telemetry string, before sending. SO the delay will be the time to send a full frame
[00:22] <gonzo_> the dleays in the code are just the times to send each bit
[00:22] <gonzo_> delays
[00:22] <walrus1111> How were those delays calculated?
[00:23] <mfa298> from memory they're roughly 1/baudrate
[00:23] <gonzo_> probably the length of a bit, less the time to process and send the bit +- a fiddle factor
[00:24] <walrus1111> Haha okay
[00:24] <walrus1111> I'll mess around with some of the numbers on my own time
[00:24] <gonzo_> but your original question. If we assume a 30byte packet, including preamble and checksum. At 300bd, it will take about 1sec to send. So your teolemetry delay will be 1sec
[00:25] <walrus1111> Right
[00:25] <walrus1111> That makes sense
[00:25] <walrus1111> at 50bd, it would take 6 seconds to send, so telemetry delay should be 6 seconds?
[00:25] <gonzo_> because the data is being collected before you start sending and will only be processed at the receive software, once the full packet has been received.
[00:26] <Darkside> probably more than 6 seconds, depending on the content of your data sentences
[00:26] <gonzo_> correct, 50bd=6sec
[00:26] <gonzo_> for a 30byte packet
[00:26] <gonzo_> for a 60byte packet, 12sec
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[00:28] <Darkside> walrus1111: i guess the thing to think about is what impact does such a delay have
[00:29] <Darkside> realistically up to a 30 second delay could probably be tolerated
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[00:31] <walrus1111> Ah
[00:31] <walrus1111> Okay
[00:31] <walrus1111> Thank you
[00:31] <walrus1111> My goal is to do as little a delay as possible :P
[00:31] <gonzo_> possibly we shoudl ask, what the data is you are sending, and why is it so time critical?
[00:32] <walrus1111> Coords, altitude, and a few sensors, time is critical because this is a data collection experiment and there is a chance if we slightly underfill the balloon that it'll be unrecoverable
[00:32] <walrus1111> If it ends up being unrecoverable, having access to as much data as was possible to download would be ideal
[00:36] <gonzo_> the actual delay is probably not critical then. Just the number of data points?
[00:36] <gonzo_> you may find that you need to trade off data points against getting reliable downlinking. But reducing the baudrate.
[00:37] <walrus1111> Yeah, that's what I've been toying with
[00:37] <gonzo_> as it sounds like you would really like to recover it. And a lower baud rate may help get the last few packets as it is coming in to land. And so giving you the best chance of finding the landing spot
[00:38] <walrus1111> Though it seems that messing with the delay corresponds to baud rate
[00:38] <walrus1111> If it lands in a spot where recovery is possible, it will be recovered. I'll be tossing a SPOT tracker on it
[00:38] <gonzo_> yes, the delays in software are just to set the bit length, and so the baudrate
[00:38] <walrus1111> The most important part of data collection for me is from launch -> apogee, a distance of about 10k m
[00:39] <gonzo_> do you need a reading every second, or would 6second intervals be ok? If so, go for 50bd
[00:40] <walrus1111> 6 is probably too far. Maybe every 2-3 would be ideal
[00:40] <Darkside> SPOT trackers are only useful if the antenna points up :P
[00:40] <walrus1111> So I've heard
[00:40] <Darkside> also you dont have to just do 50 or 300 baud...
[00:40] <Darkside> there are options in between
[00:40] <Darkside> i usually fly 100 baud
[00:40] <gonzo_> I was going to say that. The success of SPOT seems to be about 50%
[00:40] <walrus1111> Yup, I'll probably mess around for an in-between option
[00:40] <walrus1111> 50%? Oof
[00:40] <walrus1111> Even if it gets a ping or two out before it lands?
[00:40] <Darkside> spot kind of sucks for balloon tracking
[00:41] <Darkside> slow updates, no altitude info
[00:41] <walrus1111> Well damn
[00:41] <walrus1111> Are there any other recommended options?
[00:41] <Darkside> no gps lock above 12km or whatever it is
[00:41] <Darkside> make your radio tracker work well
[00:41] <walrus1111> Someone was talking about a SPARK nano
[00:41] <Darkside> test it
[00:41] <Darkside> in the US you could also use an APRS tracker as a backup
[00:41] <Darkside> not for downlinking your sensor data, but just for backup positioning
[00:42] <walrus1111> Neither of those will work once the payload is about to land though, right?
[00:42] <Darkside> depends
[00:42] <Darkside> APRS would probably work down to a few hundred metres, depending on hwo far away the nearest digipeater/igate is
[00:42] <Darkside> RTTY could work right down to landing, depending on how far away *you* are
[00:43] <Darkside> and ideally you would want to be nearby (or at least on a hill in teh vicinity) when its coming down
[00:43] <walrus1111> Damn. Was hoping for an option that would be able to text me a coordinate when it lands
[00:45] <Darkside> if you get a position at a few hundred metres altitude, thats good enough to get close enough to get radio signal
[00:45] <Darkside> in the majority of cases anyway, there are a few exceptions
[00:45] <gonzo_> you will need to chase and be as close to the predicted landing spot, so you can hear and decoide it to the last few 100mtrs altitude
[00:45] <gonzo_> snap
[00:46] <gonzo_> gn all
[00:46] <Darkside> yeah it'd be a bit late there in blighty :P
[00:49] <walrus1111> Yeah
[00:50] <walrus1111> I will do my best
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[01:34] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03YPADSONDE after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YPADSONDE
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[03:56] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0320 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
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[08:09] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BB01 after 037 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BB01
[08:11] Action: PE2BZ is doing a wake up call for B-26
[08:32] <Ian_> Yawn, too early Zzzz :)
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[09:22] <dwallyboi> Hey all, I'm having a bunch of trouble trying to set my rtty transmission delay such that dl-fldigi decodes
[09:23] <dwallyboi> No matter what I set it to, dl-fldigi decodes a bunch of gibberish
[09:23] <dwallyboi> Whether it's 50 baud or 300 baud
[09:31] <Mike-SA6BSS> post a pic on imgur of dl fldigi
[09:31] <Mike-SA6BSS> what rx do you use
[09:31] <Mike-SA6BSS> rx = receiver
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[09:32] <dwallyboi> Funcube dongle pro+
[09:33] <Mike-SA6BSS> then post pic of your program rx:ing you transmissions
[09:33] <dwallyboi> https://gyazo.com/d80597f1c729bd6f255f794312790413
[09:33] <dwallyboi> Is that what you mean?
[09:34] <dwallyboi> Transmitting using an NTX2, following the ukhas tutorial
[09:34] <Mike-SA6BSS> yep, good pic
[09:34] <dwallyboi> Haha okay, hopefully it's helpful in diagnosing the issue
[09:35] <Mike-SA6BSS> looking at it... hopefully some more join in in a momet
[09:36] <dwallyboi> I'm running some custom Arduino code, following this tutorial: https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[09:36] <dwallyboi> I'm sending a full data string though, not the sample string they provide
[09:38] <dwallyboi> At the bottom of the sample where they provide examples of the delayMicroseconds() functions for different baud rates, I've tried to emulate several, from the 50 and 300 the example provides to currently using 10075 to try and emulate 100 baud
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[09:40] <Mike-SA6BSS> cant see anything realy wrong with fldigi, might want to dissabel sql duting testing , not that I think it have any impact in your setup
[09:41] <mfa298> it's probably worth getting it working at 50baud first, then work up to higher bauds from there
[09:42] <dwallyboi> I've reset it to 50 baud
[09:42] <dwallyboi> It's still pretty bad
[09:42] <Mike-SA6BSS> and your rx program looks fine , no owerloading ?
[09:43] <dwallyboi> How could I tell if it was?
[09:45] <mfa298> what have you set as the audio input in dl-fldigi (the obvious option of fcd isn't the right option)
[09:45] <dwallyboi> Porting from gqrx
[09:45] <dwallyboi> over sound flower (I'm on Mac)
[09:47] <dwallyboi> I've gotten this setup to work well with Habduino & PITS.... so I don't think it's a rx issue
[09:48] <mfa298> that ought to work.
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[09:50] <dwallyboi> Yeah, it's a toughy :\
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[10:39] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DL0ROS-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DL0ROS-11
[10:50] <dwallyboi> Hey Mike-SA6BSS
[10:50] <dwallyboi> I did some more digging
[10:50] <dwallyboi> It seems that it's a tx error, stemming from my GPS code
[10:50] <dwallyboi> If I remove the GPS init code from my project, transmission works
[10:50] <dwallyboi> I am beyond confused as to why this is the case
[10:52] <mfa298> dwallyboi: possibly soemthign happenign in oyour code that affects timing (interrupts for the gps code maybe?)
[10:54] <dwallyboi> It seems that simply by doing GPS.begin, my transmission gets screwed up
[10:55] <dwallyboi> Running a Software Serial breaks the entire thing
[10:55] <mfa298> if that's with arduino libraries some of them have been known to do nasty things with delays
[10:55] <mfa298> software serial being one of those that has casued issues in the past
[10:55] <dwallyboi> Right, but I'm following a ukhas tutorial to the point :(
[10:55] <dwallyboi> https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:ublox8
[10:55] <dwallyboi> Literally straight up copying that software serial code
[10:59] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SITS-4 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SITS-4
[10:59] <Darkside> do you *need* to use software serial?
[11:00] <Darkside> can't use the UART?
[11:00] <dwallyboi> Do I have to buy one?
[11:00] <dwallyboi> (My noob might be showing through here)
[11:03] <Darkside> er
[11:03] <Darkside> i mean the UART on the arduino
[11:03] <Darkside> the serial interface
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[11:04] <Darkside> i guess the issue here is you probably only have one, and you are programming the arduino via it
[11:04] <Darkside> the other option is you can use the ublox in polled mode
[11:05] <Darkside> see further down the ublox 8 guide page
[11:05] <Darkside> so you could poll the ublox for a position, then once you get that info, transmit the RTTY sentence
[11:05] <dwallyboi> I tried that earlier, but was running into an issue where polling the Ublox would only return half a sentence
[11:06] <mfa298> I think those examples (from quickly scanning the page) are more about testing the ublox and streaming the gps output to the onboard uart (and so to the arduino console)
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[11:07] <mfa298> I think most people for their flight computers have adapted that to use the hardware uart for the gps (but you might need to remove the gps when programming)
[11:08] <dwallyboi> Okay
[11:08] <dwallyboi> I shall attempt that
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[11:09] <mfa298> you might be able to find other peoples code on github and use some of those as examples to how things can be done.
[11:10] <mfa298> although it's probably best to try and understand what their code does then write your own version. There's a wide variation in how people have written their code and how well it all works
[11:11] <dwallyboi> Okay
[11:11] <dwallyboi> I will do
[11:11] <dwallyboi> Thank you for your help
[11:11] <dwallyboi> Will report back later today
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[11:20] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03YPADSONDE after 038 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YPADSONDE
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[11:20] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03YMMLSONDE after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YMMLSONDE
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[11:29] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03IV3SRD-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IV3SRD-11
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[11:42] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RSIST after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RSIST
[11:54] <PE2BZ> !flights
[11:54] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Current flights: 03B-26 434.500 MHz 10(d6be)
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[13:08] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PE2BZ - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PE2BZ
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[13:37] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VA2RMG-10 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VA2RMG-10
[13:38] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03VA2RMG-11 after 0315 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VA2RMG-11
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[14:23] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03kc3fxx_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=kc3fxx_chase
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[14:42] <Tyler> #highaltitude
[14:42] Nick change: Tyler -> Guest7692
[14:43] <Guest7692> #highaltitude
[14:43] <PE2BZ> Hi Altitude
[14:44] <Guest7692> sorry first time on here..
[14:44] <PE2BZ> No problem
[14:44] <PE2BZ> You are in #highaltitude now
[14:45] <Guest7692> yes i am
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[14:48] <Guest7692> do you have any experience with ArduinoTrack's boards?
[14:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03W3EAX-8 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W3EAX-8
[14:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03W3EAX-12 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W3EAX-12
[14:56] <Ian_> Guest7692 do you mean Arduino Tracker boards? can you name a specific board that you are interested in or are you talking generically?
[14:57] <Ian_> I think maybe you haven't got a reply because people haven't discerned the question yet!
[14:59] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC3HHV _chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC3HHV%20_chase
[15:17] <Laurenceb_> !whereis HIRFW-6
[15:17] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb_: 03HIRFW-6 was over 03Zhanaarka District, 100000, Kazakhstan 10(46.48107,68.96215) at 0311999 meters about 038 hours ago
[15:53] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03AG6GR-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AG6GR-11
[16:03] sumie-dh (~sumie-dh@88.86.99.225) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
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[16:24] kc2uez (~SKA0ut@static-74-42-252-20.br1.glvv.ny.frontiernet.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
[16:26] kc2uez (~SKA0ut@static-74-42-252-20.br1.glvv.ny.frontiernet.net) joined #highaltitude.
[16:34] tibs01 (steve@212.159.122.42) left irc:
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[17:11] tibs01 (steve@212.159.122.42) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
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[17:17] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IZTEST after 036 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IZTEST
[17:19] Guest7692 (73462350@gateway/web/freenode/ip.115.70.35.80) left irc: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
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[17:23] <David-SM0ULC> That hirf must just have got extra light gas and reached low erath orbit.
[17:23] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03IZ11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IZ11
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[17:38] priyesh (~priyesh@unaffiliated/priyesh) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[18:16] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KG5UEE-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KG5UEE-11
[18:45] SopaXorzTaker (~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
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[19:42] tibs01 (steve@212.159.122.42) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
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[19:56] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03WB8ELK-1 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WB8ELK-1
[19:57] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KJ4TDM-11 after 036 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KJ4TDM-11
[20:06] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03N4XWC-1 after 036 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N4XWC-1
[20:27] Bob_ZL1RS (31e0ce44@gateway/web/freenode/ip.49.224.206.68) joined #highaltitude.
[20:34] Bob (~Bob@68.206.224.49.dyn.cust.vf.net.nz) joined #highaltitude.
[20:36] Bob_ZL1RS (31e0ce44@gateway/web/freenode/ip.49.224.206.68) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[20:37] Nick change: Bob -> Bob_ZL1RS
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[21:44] walrusman10 (0c565e2e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.12.86.94.46) joined #highaltitude.
[21:44] <walrusman10> Howdy, anyone here this evening?
[21:51] <David-SM0ULC> yepp
[22:01] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BB01 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BB01
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[22:26] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.lazyleopard.org.uk) left irc: Quit: Now QRT
[22:34] orbyt_ (~orbyt@172.92.5.20) left irc: Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz&
[22:52] Rodaro (18f024eb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.240.36.235) joined #highaltitude.
[22:52] <Rodaro> Hi everyone - I have a UBlox max 8 GPS from uputronics
[22:52] <Rodaro> I was wondering if there were any tutorials online about how to set it up with I2C on an Arduino
[22:52] <Rodaro> I cannot find any
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[23:11] Nick change: jan -> Guest41055
[23:12] Guest41055 (4dfbe12d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.251.225.45) left irc: Client Quit
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[23:17] Nick change: BrainDamage_ -> BrainDamage
[23:19] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03YMMLSONDE after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YMMLSONDE
[23:20] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03YPADSONDE after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YPADSONDE
[23:44] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RSIST after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RSIST
[23:57] orbyt_ (~orbyt@172.92.5.20) joined #highaltitude.
[00:00] --- Sun Dec 3 2017