highaltitude.log.20171201

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[05:54] <walrusman10> Hello! Anyone here?
[05:57] <walrusman10> Alright, I'll post anyways:
[05:57] <walrusman10> So I bought a NTX2 module and I've been following this tutorial
[05:57] <walrusman10> https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[05:57] <walrusman10> And I was curious what I could do to add an antenna
[05:57] <walrusman10> I have the antenna made and I have a SMA plugged into my breadboard
[05:58] <walrusman10> The RFGND pin broke on the NTX2, I have RFOUT plugged into the SMA port, then RFGND2 plugged into ground
[05:58] <walrusman10> but something doesn't appear to be working
[05:58] <walrusman10> No strength in transmission
[05:58] <walrusman10> Anyone know what I could be goofing up on?
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[06:16] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0320 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
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[06:50] <PE2BZ> Mike-SA6BSS did not know about the hand stretching but I used a boat pump to fill it with air at first. I have now (after 18 hours) 26 gram lift left. I take one BoBo to work and fill it with air to estimate it´s max diameter
[06:50] <PE2BZ> Around 12 utc I decide if I fill 2 Bobo´s for half size or ¨just let this one go on a ride¨
[06:51] <PE2BZ> thanks and tt7 also for the input !
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[09:37] <pb0ahx> !flights
[09:37] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Current flights: 03B-26 434.500 MHz 10(d6be)
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[09:47] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SITS-4 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SITS-4
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[11:19] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03YMMLSONDE after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YMMLSONDE
[11:22] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SITS-3 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SITS-3
[11:44] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RSIST after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RSIST
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[12:05] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03gersgers_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=gersgers_chase
[12:10] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PILOTS-BL after 038 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PILOTS-BL
[12:18] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SQ7ACP-11 after 037 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SQ7ACP-11
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[12:26] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03VA2RMG-11 after 0315 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VA2RMG-11
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[12:43] <Laurenceb> !whereis HIRFW-6
[12:43] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb: 03HIRFW-6 was over 03Yrgyz District, Kazakhstan 10(49.48107,60.96215) at 0311999 meters about 035 hours ago
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[12:56] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03B-26 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=B-26
[13:09] <PE2BZ> B-26 is on air / in the air again !
[13:11] <SpeedEvil> Would a balloon >>5km in diameter float 'on the air' ?
[13:11] <SpeedEvil> In that most of the weight would be supported by the bottom
[13:24] <Mike-SA6BSS> PE2BZ: This will be verry interesting!! itsto my knowledge the firs tracker under that balloon type.
[13:25] PE2G (~PE2G@2001:982:57a:1:69a6:9338:65d7:6abb) joined #highaltitude.
[13:25] <PE2G> !flights
[13:25] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2G: Current flights: 03B-26 434.500 MHz 10(d6be)
[13:25] <PE2BZ> Hi Mike, today we offered 2 bobo´s to the pressured air hose. One pre-stretched by hand and one not. Not a big difference in burst diameter, but the BANG of the non stretched was much louder and did scare some co-workers :-)
[13:26] <PE2G> !dial d6be
[13:26] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2G: Latest dials for 03B-26sol 10(d6be): 03434.49884 MHz, 434.478478 MHz, 434.50042 MHz
[13:27] <PE2BZ> APRS https://aprs.fi/#!lat=51.92330&lng=4.25000
[13:27] <Mike-SA6BSS> PE2BZ: Lol bomb
[13:28] <PE2BZ> You know the sound ;-)
[13:28] <Mike-SA6BSS> afk
[13:39] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BB01 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BB01
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[14:03] <FuzzyLemon> Hi! Is it possible to get a CAA permit for a HAB launch anywhere within the M25?
[14:03] <FuzzyLemon> I'm guessing no, but just wondered if anyone had tried
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[14:26] <PE2BZ> B-26 at 3680 meter now, 0.4 m/s
[14:28] <VE3KCL> PE2BZ did you prestretch the Bobo 36" ?
[14:29] <PE2BZ> Not this one. It was allready filled with HE before I did read that advice
[14:30] <VE3KCL> when I tested one the other day the initial pressure to inflate was high .4 psi but on re inflate this dropped to .2 to .3 psi
[14:31] <PE2BZ> The good news is that I had it filled with air to 3/4 size with a footpump, so you could call that pre-stretched ?
[14:31] <VE3KCL> I hope this balloon works ... they look beautiful... my gas losses in the house were not acceptable ...
[14:32] <VE3KCL> filled with air will work ... mine exploded at 28.5" diameter
[14:32] <VE3KCL> I pre stretched to about .15 cu meters
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[14:33] <Mike-SA6BSS> PE2BZ: whats the payload weight?
[14:33] <PE2BZ> 19 gram complete
[14:34] <g8fjg> PE2BZ Ben my turn to wait today !
[14:34] <Mike-SA6BSS> ok
[14:35] <g8fjg> no enhancement ..too cold
[14:35] <PE2BZ> g8fjg ;-) I hope it does not go much higher....
[14:36] <g8fjg> I'll have to wait till it tracks around a bit then
[14:38] <g8fjg> is it on .500 dial or actual?
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[14:39] <PE2BZ> spot on for pb0ahx and -170 hz for me
[14:39] <g8fjg> ok
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[14:44] <PE2G> B-26 on 434.500.7 for 1212 Hz centre here
[14:45] <PE2G> Too weak for green decodes on the blue circle
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[14:50] <PE2G> !hysplit add B-26
[14:50] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2G: You need to be an admin to do that.
[15:05] <PE2G> https://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/161512_trj001.gif
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[15:40] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03M0XER-5 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M0XER-5
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[15:54] <PE2BZ> B-26 with BoBo 36 inch, 20 gram payload and 25 gram lift before launch is now nicely floating towards France just around 4000 meters, for 55 minutes now
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[15:55] <michal_f> what's the predicted direction ?
[15:56] <michal_f> will it cross Poland ?
[15:56] <PE2BZ> https://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/161512_trj001.gif
[15:56] <michal_f> :/
[15:56] <PE2BZ> not for the first 24 hours sorry ;-)
[15:56] <michal_f> good luck :)
[15:57] <PE2BZ> Thanks !
[15:57] <PE2BZ> Could use some listeners from France....
[15:58] <TT7> PE2BZ: based on the float altitude and the closest sounding data, I'd say the volume of the balloon is 0.06m^3
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[15:59] <PE2BZ> TT7 any idea for a flow meter which can be used for HE where I can read (or set) the amount of gas I want to have inside the balloon ?
[16:00] <PE2BZ> Not that I am not satisfied with this result :-)
[16:02] <TT7> I haven't used any flow meters. calculating the desired lift and measuring it with a pocket scale seemed sufficiently accurate to me
[16:03] <TT7> B-26 runs on a primary battery?
[16:05] <PE2BZ> yes, a single Energizer Ultimate Lithium. Removed the solar and supercap because the supercap dropped to 0.7 volt directly after going into the shadow. With a 50 F supercap it worked for 2 minutes but that was as heavy as the battery.
[16:09] <TT7> nice. we should be able to see how it behaves during the night then
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[16:10] <VE3KCL> Pe2bz... Ben did you say you launched with 25 grams of free lift ?
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[16:15] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03mhasla _chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=mhasla%20_chase
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[16:21] <PE2BZ> ve3kcl no, 25 gram lift so about 5 to 6 gram free lift that is
[16:23] <VE3KCL> PE2BZ by my calculations the balloon with 5 grams of free lift the internal pressure at this float would be about 1psi... which is quite high... so there is a mystery ... on earth .45ps is enough to blow the balloon
[16:24] <VE3KCL> that would be differential pressure
[16:25] <VE3KCL> perhaps we have different versions of the same balloon... mine weighed 22gm empty
[16:37] <PE2BZ> mine 23 gram so no big difference?
[16:39] <VE3KCL> For some reason the envelope has stopped stretching even though it may have quite a bit of internal pressure... this may be related to the temperature as my measurements were made at 20c
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[17:48] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SSTAR0191 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SSTAR0191
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[17:55] <PE2BZ> VE3KCL Don´t know if you did read that part but I have tested 2 BoBo´s with air pressure, one pre-stretched by hand and one not, both bursted at about 1 m diameter, the not pre-stretched with a major BANG and the pre-stretched with a ¨poof¨
[17:56] <PE2BZ> On the youtube movie the balloon looked much more flexible as mine
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[18:01] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KG5IFR after 0317 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KG5IFR
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[18:18] <VE3KCL> PE2BZ There must be some differences in the balloons as mine failed at very slow stretch ( 2 hrs ) filled by a small aquarium pump at 28.5" 72 cm pressure 4.27 psi .. I noticed a milky shade on the balloon at about 26" of inflation which I took to be stress on the material
[18:19] <VE3KCL> I hand stretched the balloons as per instructions on all tests
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[18:20] <VE3KCL> that should be .427psi on the fail pressure
[18:24] <PE2BZ> https://photos.app.goo.gl/Uofm0L7vYdqz53eh1
[18:25] <PE2BZ> that´s with (I think) 6 psi air pressure and half way I released the grip to fill a little slower.
[18:26] <PE2BZ> https://photos.app.goo.gl/VtSAJ7UJPv4U0cYt1
[18:26] <PE2BZ> that´s another Bobo from the same bag not hand prestretched
[18:26] <PE2BZ> That´s estimated 1 meter from fill opening to top, not complete sphere
[18:27] <PE2BZ> https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZhLa5PennunSZ6vI3
[18:28] <PE2BZ> that´s the one that is flying now. Had a circumference of about 147 cm yesterday evening and 146 cm this afternoon and 31 gram total lift yesterday evening and 25 this afternoon. That´s also a reason why I started the flight 2 hours before the scheduled time
[18:29] <PE2BZ> And this is the payload
[18:29] <PE2BZ> https://photos.app.goo.gl/96XqGeNYApRNMf2f2
[18:29] <PE2BZ> https://photos.app.goo.gl/RsHoZgHojeTDjpx82 bobo balloon package
[18:30] Action: PE2BZ is heading for Paris with the B-26 floater. The eiffeltower is still lower as 4000 meter isn´t it ?
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[18:35] <VE3KCL> I have been floating my 36" balloon for 40 hrs at this point... it was filled with air and hydrogen not not the same .. but I wanted to have the volume correct at about .15 cu meters
[18:36] <PE2BZ> I have a launch video, my first balcony balloon launch https://photos.app.goo.gl/2MzzYBaYlrYQEZkT2
[18:36] <VE3KCL> at the 24 hr point the lift loss was 4.82 gms at the 40 hr point the lift loss was 7.27 gms
[18:37] <VE3KCL> It may have been the air mixed with hydrogen but I believe the pvc material may not be suitable for superpressure applications
[18:38] <PE2BZ> Would you consider the use of anti leak fluid as used for Latex balloons also on this type of balloon ?
[18:40] <VE3KCL> nice launch video .... my 15 meter hf antenna causes many problems and will catch on all sorts of things... I have to have a calm day
[18:40] <VE3KCL> The anti leak fluid may work...
[18:42] <VE3KCL> My concern with pvc is in the cold it does not appear to stretch the same ... a normal qualatex balloon will inflate to .1 meter without stretching pressure but these pvc ones require quite a bit of pressure to increase in volume
[18:42] <VE3KCL> without the balloon volume increase there will be no altitude increase
[18:44] <VE3KCL> In NA the Qualatex balloon manufacturer has reduced the thickeness of the normal silver balloon envelope to 90% which reduces the weight to 33.17 gms from 37-38 grams
[18:45] <VE3KCL> Unfortunately the seals with this thinner material are made very poorly and leak if not redone
[18:45] <VE3KCL> This change in Qualatex was evident from date code 201704 onward
[18:46] <VE3KCL> To fly the Qualatex balloon now one has to use less free lift ... which usually equates to less flight time
[18:50] <PE2BZ> Where does NA stand for ? I did read about the new generation Qualatex not being as good so I decided to follow the way to China
[18:51] <PE2BZ> But I might as well visit the party store this weekend. I´m looking for something to float a 100 gram payload :-)
[18:53] <VE3KCL> NA North america make in Kansas the home of airplanes but I believe they are also made in Europe... in Canada here we get them from Kansas
[18:56] <VE3KCL> China also sells a different clear one that is 35 gms and Mikael Dagman has had go around the world ....they seem to resist stretching but go to .1cu meter quickly
[18:57] <VE3KCL> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/24-Inch-1pcs-Clear-Foil-Balloons-Transparent-Aluminum-Balloon-Wedding-Birthday-Party-Decorations-Balon-Globos/32699218436.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.2.kNLFcY&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_5_10152_10065_5000015_10151_10344_10068_10130_10345_10342_10547_10343_10340_10341_10548_5130015_10541_10084_10083_10139_10307_10539_5080015_10312_10059_10313_10314_10534_100031_10604_10603_10103_10605_
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[19:01] <leduderman> Hi everyone - Quick question:
[19:01] <PE2BZ> That looks like a heavy duty type
[19:02] <leduderman> To set flight mode in a Ublox GPS you use the following byte string: { 0xB5, 0x62, 0x06, 0x24, 0x24, 0x00, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0x06, 0x03, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x10, 0x27, 0x00, 0x00, 0x05, 0x00, 0xFA, 0x00, 0xFA, 0x00, 0x64, 0x00, 0x2C, 0x01, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x16, 0xDC } If I want to go back from flight mode to pedestrian, what should I use?
[19:03] <leduderman> I've done some googling around but I haven't been super successful
[19:03] <VE3KCL> a reset should get you back to normal mode but you want pedestrian mode
[19:05] <leduderman> I think normal is pedestrian
[19:05] <leduderman> But I also want to do it programmatically -- Without needing a restart
[19:06] <VE3KCL> I would go to the Ucenter software and hook up the gps and then ask it to change to pedestrian mode or any mode .... if you open the monitor in the program it will show you the string it is sending ...
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[19:07] <VE3KCL> Reset by the way is not a bad idea now and again... as the ublox can lock up
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[19:08] <leduderman> I know... but if I want to transition from flight to normal mode on descent
[19:09] <leduderman> I can't just reset the GPS, right? :P
[19:09] <PE2BZ> Would anyone know a 434 MHz web sdr in France ?
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[19:48] <cm13g09> mfa298_: ping?
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[20:09] <VE3KCL> PE2BZ Bye Ben ... good luck on the rest of the flight Dave
[20:12] <PE2BZ> Thanks Dave !
[20:14] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03VA2RMG-11 after 036 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VA2RMG-11
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[20:24] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PE2BZ - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PE2BZ
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[20:30] <mfa298_> cm13g09: pong
[20:31] <cm13g09> mfa298_: PM?
[20:32] <mfa298_> go on then ;)
[20:32] <cm13g09> well, fix your nick first....
[20:32] Nick change: mfa298_ -> mfa298
[20:32] <cm13g09> as you appear to have gained an underscore ;)
[20:32] <mfa298> damn freenode restarting there servers (or whatever caused me to get disconnected last night)
[20:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03L_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=L_chase
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[21:12] <rhe31> Quick question, I have been pointed to this SDR for HAB tracking but in the spec it says "Receiving frequency: FM radio: 87.5~108 MHZ". Does this mean it will not pick up the 434MHz signal of the NTX2? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB2-0-Digital-DVB-T-SDR-DAB-FM-HDTV-TV-Tuner-Receiver-Stick-RTL2832U-R820T-CV/382195422341?epid=21003681730&hash=item58fc9f5485:g:G3IAAOSweWVXfPUz
[21:21] <bertrik> those can pick up 434 MHz fine
[21:23] <bertrik> there are rtlsdr sticks like that with improved crystal and with an SMA connector
[21:24] <bertrik> they are 3 times the price, but still not expensive and worth it IMO
[21:26] <bertrik> more information here https://www.rtl-sdr.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/RTL-SDR-Blog-V3-Datasheet.pdf
[21:28] <bertrik> there's also the "habamp" that amplifies signals in the 434 MHz and filters out other signals
[21:29] <bertrik> at my local hacker space, we used a cheap rtl-sdr stick with a habamp and a 434 MHz colinear antenna to receive HAB signals
[21:31] <rhe31> Brilliant thank you, this is my first time so just want to make sure. Now you mention it I think I want one with an SMA connector.
[21:32] <rhe31> I have a habamp but am not sure on how to connect all the components up
[21:33] <rhe31> And also does the antenna need to have SMA not BNC?
[21:34] <mfa298> you can get adaptors between the various connectors
[21:35] <mfa298> at least for the common ones used in radio (mcx and Belling Lee - the types of connector on most tv dongles have fewer adaptors)
[21:39] <rhe31> ok shouldn't make a difference then
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[21:41] <mfa298> each adaptor / connection might introduce a slight loss, but that probably won't be significant unless you strt using lots of them
[21:42] <mfa298> you can probably find a pigtail adaptor between mcx (what that dongle probably has) and sma or bnc for not too much cost.
[21:43] <bertrik> the cheap rtl-sdrs drift like crazy, so I recommend to get the improved version with one of those TCXO oscillators
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[22:13] <TT7> PE2BZ: any idea what went wrong with B-26's APRS transmissions?
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[22:19] <Mike-SA6BSS> its geofenced,
[22:20] <Mike-SA6BSS> no tx over uk or france
[22:26] <TT7> it seemed to have trouble over Belgium and the Netherlands as well
[22:27] <Mike-SA6BSS> geofnce its´n verry exact
[22:29] <TT7> then hopefully it shows up over Spain in the morning
[22:29] <Mike-SA6BSS> yes it should acording to the hysplitt
[22:32] <TT7> I've just found out that Hysplit outputs solar radiation flux values for individual datapoints along the trajectory
[22:32] <TT7> can help to better anticipate when a tracker should wake up
[22:33] <Mike-SA6BSS> ok, cool
[22:34] <Mike-SA6BSS> I belive this is the map used in geofence http://www.bristol-seds.co.uk/assets/flights/15/ubseds15_no_aprs_world_miller_cylindrical.jpg
[22:34] <TT7> it's in this model https://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypub-bin/trajtype.pl
[22:35] <TT7> under 'Display Options' and 'Dump meteorological data along trajectory'
[22:36] <Mike-SA6BSS> usuly its been quite easy to see when you payload should wake up just looking at the trajectory and this map https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/grad/solcalc/
[22:38] <Mike-SA6BSS> going to bed, gn all
[22:40] <TT7> yeah, I've been doing it similarly. the hysplit data dump gives you a specific value for Downward Solar Radiation Flux in W/m2 based on altitude and latitude
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[23:23] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03YMMLSONDE after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YMMLSONDE
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[23:31] <walrus1111> When transmitting from an Arduino, is it ok to use a baud rate of 300? Makes the data come in super fast
[23:31] <walrus1111> Is this ok at high altitudes though? Or would it be safer to use a slower, 50 baud rate
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[23:33] <gonzo_> if you don't need the speed (for ssdv etc) then the lower speed is best
[23:35] <Laurenceb_> "deep learning" is simpler than it looks https://i.imgur.com/Yf4yqtu.png
[23:35] <gonzo_> for just position and a bit of telemetry, you don't need lots af data points. a 10second update is more than enough
[23:36] <gonzo_> and slower rates have lower bandwidth, and so you can receive and decode with weaker signals
[23:37] <walrus1111> For the experiment I'm running, as many data points as possible is preferred
[23:37] <walrus1111> Especially if the content cannot be recovered in the end
[23:38] <walrus1111> Would running RTTY at a high baud rate risk not being able to decode properly?
[23:38] <walrus1111> Or get a lot of errors
[23:39] <mfa298> walrus1111: higher baud will potentially reduce the range for good decodes (i.e. you need a stronger signal to decode)
[23:39] <gonzo_> at 50bd, you can get decodes till the balloon drops over the horizon
[23:40] <walrus1111> This balloon isn't expected to make it over 15000m
[23:40] <gonzo_> at 300bd, you lose it sooner
[23:40] <mfa298> although it can cope with some (short lived) interference better ( less time for interference to corrupt a packet)
[23:40] <gonzo_> that can be true
[23:41] <gonzo_> depemds what you have locally
[23:41] <walrus1111> Locally using a fun cube pro SDR with a TRAM antenna
[23:41] <gonzo_> TRAM?
[23:41] <walrus1111> sec
[23:41] <walrus1111> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0045EQUBK/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
[23:42] <gonzo_> the fcd P+ is a reasonably sensitive device
[23:42] <walrus1111> That's good to hear :)
[23:43] <gonzo_> ok, those are popular antennas
[23:43] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RSIST after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RSIST
[23:43] <mfa298> you might also want to consider who else might be able to help with tracking (which can depend where in the world you are)
[23:43] <gonzo_> certainly ok for a chase car.
[23:43] <walrus1111> US-based, so it's unlikely
[23:43] <walrus1111> Will be on a chase car
[23:43] <walrus1111> It'll go ~100 miles horizontally max, and likely pop between 10-15K meters
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[23:44] <walrus1111> The goal is to capture as much data as possible
[23:44] <walrus1111> And there's a chance it could land in a body of water and be unrecoverable
[23:44] <gonzo_> try and rope in any local ham clubs. As they may have 70cms radios (ssb)
[23:45] <walrus1111> I'll do some research, thank you
[23:45] <gonzo_> they may only need to load up the modified dl-fl digi
[23:45] <mfa298> walrus1111: note for the US you probably need to operate the balloon payload under an amateur radio license
[23:45] <walrus1111> I have one
[23:45] <walrus1111> Should be good on that front
[23:47] <mfa298> if your the only reciever it might be better to go with slower updates, recieving 80% of 50 baud packets is probably better than 1% of 300baud
[23:47] <mfa298> or you could try for something in the middle
[23:49] <walrus1111> I will
[23:49] <walrus1111> Noobish question though
[23:49] <walrus1111> For transmissions, how do I calculate which amount delay corresponds to a certain baud rate?
[23:49] <walrus1111> 50 & 300 are default examples used
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[00:00] --- Sat Dec 2 2017