highaltitude.log.20170921

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[01:10] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03wb631u_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=wb631u_chase
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[04:58] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03DL7AD-12 after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DL7AD-12
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[07:35] <DL7AD1> .DL7AD-12
[07:35] <DL7AD1> !DL7AD-12
[07:35] <fsphil> waiting for those caps to charge
[07:35] <DL7AD1> .whereis DL7AD-12
[07:35] <SpacenearUS> 03DL7AD1: 03DL7AD-12 was over 03Adriatic Sea 10(40.17261,18.86204) at 0311468 meters about 0328 minutes ago
[07:36] <fsphil> oh cool
[07:36] <DL7AD1> fsphil: no. nobody is receiving it somehow
[07:36] <fsphil> !track DL7AD-12
[07:36] <SpacenearUS> 03fsphil: Here you go - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DL7AD-12
[07:36] <DL7AD1> there was only one station receiving it today
[07:36] <DL7AD1> and that station is now below it's horizon
[07:36] <fsphil> that covered a good distance overnight!
[07:36] <DL7AD1> yes
[07:37] Nick change: DL7AD1 -> DL7AD
[07:37] <DL7AD> but it's very strange that only one station was receiving it
[07:37] <fsphil> yeah surprised there's nobody in italy receiving it
[07:37] <fsphil> frequency drift maybe?
[07:37] <DL7AD> it would rather say modulation
[07:38] <DL7AD> but i can only find that out in my fridge
[07:38] <DL7AD> freezer
[07:38] <fsphil> no image data yet
[07:38] <DL7AD> yes :(
[07:38] <DL7AD> there are 4 instances running on different servers. but so far no aprs packet.
[07:40] <DL7AD> and the image transmission should work even if there is an error at the camera. then it should transmit an error image.
[07:40] <DL7AD> new position
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[07:42] <DL7AD> trajectory for today (until sunset) http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/115239_trj001.gif
[07:43] <DL7AD> for next 48h http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/115251_trj001.gif
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[07:44] <fsphil> not bad
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[07:45] <DL7AD> fsphil: the image packets are very long and I know that they need a bit more SNR to be received
[07:45] <geonel> !Flight LKR01
[07:46] <fsphil> we should formalise the spec for that
[07:50] <Rebounder> DL7AD: add hysplit to it?
[08:02] <DL7AD> still loosing a lot of packets
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[08:57] <DL7AD> fsphil: I am currently watching a websdr in greece. but I cannot see it on the waterfall
[09:00] <DL7AD> fsphil: the SDR receives digipeaters digipeating the balloon
[09:01] <Rebounder> no image-blocks today?
[09:09] <PE2BZ> !flights
[09:09] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Current flights: 03SP9UOB-P30 144.251 MHz CTSTIA 10(cbd2)
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[09:11] <DL7AD> Rebounder: somehow not. I think nobody receives it
[09:12] <DL7AD> i think I can hear the tracker very faint in the WebSDR transmitting pictures.
[09:19] <DL7AD> Rebounder: you can hear the transmission very clearly (if you know the sound of the transmitter) http://sv2hnh.no-ip.org:8901/
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[09:28] <Laurenceb_> !whereis DL7AD-12
[09:28] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb_: 03DL7AD-12 is over 03Western Macedonia, Greece 10(40.3416,21.39843) at 0311445 meters
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[09:39] <DL7AD> Laurenceb: first image packet
[09:40] <fsphil> woo
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[09:46] <Laurenceb_> nice
[09:46] <Laurenceb_> DL7AD, aadamson: I wrote some sim code for thermal IR power
[09:47] <DL7AD> the picture is still in the jail
[09:47] <DL7AD> behind bars
[09:47] <Laurenceb_> looks like a 12cm diameter collector using aspen aerogels "cryogel Z" and a micropelt photodiode cooler module would put out 7.5mW at mid latitudes
[09:47] <Laurenceb_> and weight 12grams
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[09:54] <Laurenceb_> I still need to model temperature changes in the graphite sheets properly
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[09:54] <Laurenceb_> this evening perhaps...
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[10:17] <DL7AD> Laurenceb: do you have peltierelements?
[10:18] <DL7AD> i had some tests yesterday with mine but i could get barley 1mW out of it
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[10:37] <DL7AD> fsphil Laurenceb: pictures lokkin good :P
[10:40] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03EALCAMP - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=EALCAMP
[10:41] <fsphil> cloudy in that part of greece today
[10:44] <DL7AD> it's cloudy in berlin too
[10:51] <fsphil> DL7AD: why two callsigns?
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[11:00] <gonzo_> dosent's everyone?
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[11:22] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RELAY1 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RELAY1
[11:22] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03YPADSONDE after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YPADSONDE
[11:23] <Laurenceb> DL7AD: nah I dont have any elements
[11:28] <Laurenceb> its prob more efficient to use several in series
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[11:35] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SR0FLY-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SR0FLY-11
[11:36] <Laurenceb> perhaps about 30 of these http://www.rmtltd.ru/datasheets/1md02004.pdf
[11:36] <Laurenceb> spread over the surface of the collector and connected with magnet wire
[11:38] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RSIST after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RSIST
[11:42] <fsphil> DL7AD: looks like you've found some chlorophyll
[11:44] <Laurenceb> !whereis DL7AD-12
[11:44] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb: 03DL7AD-12 is over 03Central Macedonia, Greece 10(41.20954,23.57723) at 0311400 meters
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[11:58] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0314 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
[12:02] <Laurenceb> !whereis HIRFW-6
[12:02] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb: 03HIRFW-6 is over 03North Atlantic Ocean 10(32.02274,-71.87119) at 0313665 meters
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[12:44] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DG5MI-9 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DG5MI-9
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[12:45] <Gerhard> Hi anyone out there??
[12:45] <craag> a few floating around
[12:46] <Gerhard> I see that on the list on the right side... I was just wondering since it seems to be quite silent...
[12:47] <Gerhard> I have a question concerning the usage of the HAB software; on the homepage this channel was referred to for help
[12:48] <craag> a lot of us are working but with one eye on the channel
[12:48] <craag> ask your question :)
[12:48] <Gerhard> Ok thanks...
[12:49] <Gerhard> I was trying to use HAB for decoding RTTY; I understood from the description that it would be able to do so.
[12:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> HAB ? Do you mean dl-fldigi ?
[12:50] <Gerhard> More concretely I wanted to decode the broadcast DDH47, which is RTTY on 50 Baud. Unfortunately it doesn't work
[12:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> What software are you using ?
[12:50] <Gerhard> It is called HAB modem, https://www.androidmeta.com/app/com.brejza.matt.habmodem/HAB-Modem-and-Tracker
[12:52] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah, right it may only respond to the UKHAS protocol, I've used a few times but not really seriously.
[12:52] <Gerhard> I did set the mode to RTTY, FM, 50 Baud, the status changes to "tracking signal", but the decoded text is not right...
[12:52] <Gerhard> Ah.... so the coding might be different then?
[12:52] <Geoff-G8DHE> Why FM ?
[12:52] <Geoff-G8DHE> The mode would normally be USB
[12:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> we use FSK not FM
[12:53] <Gerhard> RTTY is some kind of FSK, so I thought FM is closer than SSB (which was the other option)
[12:53] <Gerhard> Anyway SSB did not work either...
[12:54] <Geoff-G8DHE> what protol & modulation does DDH47 use ?
[12:55] <daveake> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDH47
[12:55] <Gerhard> RTTY with 50 Baud, 170Hz shift
[12:55] <Vaizki> an android app is not going to demodulate FM or SSB
[12:55] <daveake> at a guess
[12:55] <Vaizki> it's going to just do audio rtty decode
[12:56] <Vaizki> so you need to have USB demod in your radio receiver
[12:56] <fsphil> those lower frequency ones might be LSB
[12:56] <Vaizki> which is producing the audio for the application input
[12:56] <Gerhard> I have a receiver, which is configured for USB, and it outputs audio. I then hold the phone close to it
[12:56] <Vaizki> oh right.. well anyway the "right" mode :)
[12:56] <fsphil> might be doing baudot too, instead of ascii
[12:57] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yup it is standard two tone modulation https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funkfernschreiben#Klangbeispiele
[12:57] <Gerhard> Yes it Baudot
[12:57] <daveake> Try fldigi on the PC
[12:57] <Gerhard> Fldigi works nicely
[12:57] <Gerhard> But I would like to have it on the phone as well...
[12:57] <Vaizki> does the app support baudot?
[12:58] <daveake> ping mattbrejza question for you ^
[12:58] <mattbrejza> nope
[12:58] <Vaizki> so there's your problem...
[12:58] <daveake> :)
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[12:58] <Gerhard> Ok, thanks for the clarification!
[12:59] <Gerhard> Anyway if you are aware of any other software, which would do the job...???
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[13:11] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SQ2ODE_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SQ2ODE_chase
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[13:23] <gonzo_> there was some issue with using baudot, last time I tried it. Something to do with the delimiter characters not getting through to habhub correctly
[13:23] <gonzo_> fsphil may recall?
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[13:28] <Vaizki> and if you miss a FS or LS then you are screwed even with manually reading partials..
[13:34] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VGER - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VGER
[13:34] <fsphil> gonzo_: yeah baudot does not have an * symbol
[13:35] <fsphil> there's a hack in fldigi to use the # instead
[13:35] <fsphil> dl-fldigi*
[13:36] <gonzo_> there was something else though, that stopped baudot working?
[13:36] <fsphil> just that iirc
[13:36] <fsphil> there just isn't much point using it vs. 7-bit ascii
[13:36] <Vaizki> that's my 2 bits also
[13:36] <Vaizki> ba-dum-tssss!
[13:37] <daveake> stop
[13:37] <fsphil> hammer time
[13:37] <gonzo_> i've been meaning to chuck a tracker together and do a liottle pico flight. May enable the baudot, if I still have it, just for the fun of it
[13:38] <daveake> Sounds like a command ... "Scotty, enable the BAUDOT"
[13:39] <gonzo_> If I give her any more, she'll blow, captain
[13:39] Action: gonzo_ says, 'would £20 be enough?'
[13:39] <Vaizki> baudot syndrome
[13:39] <daveake> "I won't ascii again"
[13:40] <gonzo_> you are a serial offender
[13:40] <gonzo_> heven't we done this pun thread many many times?
[13:40] <daveake> ack
[13:40] <Vaizki> are you asking us for a cyclical redundancy check?
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[13:50] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03U3B-9 after 0314 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=U3B-9
[13:52] <DL7AD> fsphil: because the images contained to much forest?
[13:53] <Ian_> Here's your redundancy cheque; on your bike!
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[14:04] <fsphil> DL7AD: aye. you've discovered life :)
[14:05] <DL7AD> breaking news: sonde of DL7AD discovered life on earth
[14:05] <DL7AD> :D
[14:05] <DL7AD> of DL4MDW actually too
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[14:06] <Laurenceb> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pyrolytic-graphite-discs-10-mm-up-to-50-mm-dia-x-5-mm-thick-various-quantites/121881322419?var=420873337145&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20150313114020%26meid%3D065947e7a8b548679bcd0c78303b9b02%26pid%3D100338%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D24%26sd%3D121881453935&_trksid=p2141725.c100338.m3726
[14:06] <Laurenceb> useful
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[14:29] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03110583_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=110583_chase
[14:29] <DL7AD> fsphil: have a look at picture 122. the clouds seem to be higher, are they?
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[14:31] <fsphil> DL7AD: heh, yeah I was just looking at the tracker to see if the altitude had fallen
[14:32] <fsphil> might be a thermal
[14:33] <DL7AD> I was doing so too
[14:33] <PE2BZ> Great images !
[14:34] <DL7AD> Tomorrow we will get to Poland
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[14:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KF5PGW-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KF5PGW-11
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[15:08] <Laurenceb> wow gimp
[15:08] <Laurenceb> the previous gui was bad
[15:08] <Laurenceb> now it is unusable
[15:10] <Laurenceb> wow, just wow
[15:10] <Laurenceb> this has to be a joke
[15:16] <DL7AD> Laurenceb: any screenshot?
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[15:24] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03trste_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=trste_chase
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[15:52] <DL7AD> DL7AD-12: will wake up tomorrow in east poland http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/124070_trj001.gif
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[15:53] <DL7AD> next 48h http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/124113_trj001.gif
[15:58] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03DC2EH-14 after 0312 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DC2EH-14
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[17:34] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SB2A - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SB2A
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[19:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03NERDPI - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=NERDPI
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[20:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03NERDLO - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=NERDLO
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[20:15] <Laurenceb_> https://ibin.co/w800/3bBjUJ9gHDg8.png
[20:15] <Laurenceb_> ir thermal power sim
[20:15] <Laurenceb_> doesn't work very well during the day time :(
[20:16] <Laurenceb_> not so sensitive to peltier size
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[21:49] <userscott2> Evening Gents - Lora question for those awake? :)
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[21:55] <userscott2> About to order LORA boards for a tracker which will be used in USA. I can't put modules on both positions for Europe and USA as I understand only one slot works with the PITS. Is there a frequency (433, 838 and 915) which would be suitable for use in both regions? I understand that no - there isn't... damn!
[21:57] <userscott2> I'm guessing 433.
[21:59] <mfa298> Under ISM I don't think there is, although the 868 and 915MHz versions might be possible to use on the other frequency without much loss (but don't quote me on that as I've not actualy looked)
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[22:01] <userscott2> My googling of 433 in USA seems to suggest there is an ISM band there but I'm just getting totally confused now..!
[22:01] <mfa298> for 434 I'm not sure how LORA stands under the amateur radio license terms.
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[22:02] <userscott2> It is killing me this! Our balloon transmits on 434 for RTTY also..
[22:02] <userscott2> We have found a person with a HAM license on Craigslist who will come with us lol
[22:04] <userscott2> "For a low power 433MHz transmitter, those would fall under under the provisions of FCC Part 15.231 for periodic transmission (which permits operations at 433MHz)."
[22:04] <mfa298> I didn't think 434 is an ISM band for ITU Region 2 (which covers the USA), although it's possible they have something extra
[22:04] <userscott2> "It is confusing and when you look at FCC Part 15.240, you might think you cannot use 433MHz for your typical low power transmitter, but that is not the case."
[22:04] <userscott2> "You just can't run a high power, continuously transmitting device using 433MHz."
[22:05] <userscott2> So if I set my Lora device to only transmit once every 10.01 seconds, it's legally compliant according to 15.240..
[22:05] <userscott2> 9.99 is not allowed..
[22:06] <mfa298> You probably need someone who understands the US regulation to work out what can be done under what provisions.
[22:08] <userscott2> I just found reference to a definition of High Power and Continuously Transmitting...
[22:08] <mfa298> If you can run 10mW at 10% duty cycle as a license exempt system then that would probably cover some lora use, although you may need to modify the code (I'm not sure if PITs has a duty cycle option)
[22:12] <cm13g09> evening mfa298
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[22:13] <mfa298> cm13g09: evening
[22:14] <cm13g09> how's things?
[22:14] <mfa298> not bad (-> pm)
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[22:28] <hyde00001> userscott2 - if you are still here. You can use two LoRa boards simultaneously on latest version of PITS
[22:28] <userscott2> Oh bugger!
[22:29] <userscott2> I will email Uputronics now.
[22:30] <userscott2> Emailed Uputronics - many thanks! :)
[22:30] <hyde00001> I have both 434 and 868 on mine - also work fine on LoRa gateway
[22:31] <userscott2> Thank you! I've requested 915 so I can have a blast in the USA.
[22:32] <userscott2> Shame is I just ordered this http://cpc.farnell.com/watson/wsm-270/wsm-270-mini-mag-antenna/dp/IT44456 which isn;t compatible with 915 mhz.
[22:33] <hyde00001> I've been following your USA angst without commenting as you've been getting advice from the real experts around here... that said pretty sure its 915 you need for ISM in USA..
[22:35] <userscott2> Appreciate your advice.. really I do! I'm trying not to stitch myself up as if this kit lands the next launch will be in the UK and I don't want to buy it all again. My Habduino has ARPS for European launches etc but I can just disable that in the code for UK stuff..
[22:35] <hyde00001> Oooh is that the 1/4 wave mag mount being discussed earlier??
[22:37] <userscott2> Yep
[22:37] <hyde00001> FWIW, while i've found 434 LoRa reception to be excellent (at least as good if not better than my 434 real radio RTTY setup), I've struggled with airborne 868 reception - though my 868 antenna is a bit rubbish...
[22:37] <userscott2> I have ordered two - one for RTTY and one for 434 LORA
[22:37] <hyde00001> might invest in one of those myself...
[22:37] <userscott2> But now it's not likely to be much cop for 915...
[22:38] <hyde00001> obviously you'll need a BNC to sma adapter to connect to a Uputronics LoRa board based gateway...
[22:39] <mfa298> the WSM-270 isn't a 1/4 (at least not on 70cms) but it's tuned to work on both the 2m and 70cm amatur bands.
[22:40] <mfa298> it's probably 1/4 or 5/8s on 2m, and the two bands are harmonicly linked so it works well at 70cms as well
[22:41] <hyde00001> aaah thanks...
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[22:45] <hyde00001> FWIW, this is the one I use and it seems to behave just fine on 434...
[22:45] <hyde00001> https://www.sharman-multicom.co.uk/Catalogue/HAM-RADIO/HAM-ANTENNAE/MOBILE/SHARMANS-EX211UV-2M70CM-DUAL-BAND-MAGNETIC-ANTENNA-SPA-EX211UV
[22:45] <mfa298> in general you probably won't find an antenna that's good for both 434 and 868MHz though, 3rd harmonics tend to work (2m & 70cms), 2nd harmonics (434MHz and 868MHz) dont.
[22:46] <userscott2> I have just ordered the relevant adaptors...
[22:46] <userscott2> but I will have 434 and 915 - not 868 - so now I need to find 915 mhz antennas for both ends I suspect.
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[22:50] <hyde00001> This might get the job done:
[22:50] <hyde00001> http://cpc.farnell.com/siretta/mike2a-3m-smam-s-s-26/antenna-4band-5dbi-3m-rg174-sma/dp/RF00555?CMP=KNC-GUK-CPC-GEN-SHOPPING-SIRETTA-RF00555&gross_price=true&mckv=sAlMEiYY2_dc%7Cpcrid%7C72935675897%7Ckword%7C%7Cmatch%7C%7Cplid%7C%7Cpid%7CRF00555%7C&gclid=CjwKCAjwxo3OBRBpEiwAS7X62S3lv9DRa_ubVk17yb2zypUVgFpsCKRpx7A4Lk1tKhNFyvBkHRUZVhoCvl8QAvD_BwE
[22:51] <hyde00001> though I've no experience...
[22:51] <hyde00001> might get one myself and see if it improves my in car 868 reception...
[22:52] <hyde00001> As an aside, what the right 1/4 wave length payload antenna for 915?
[22:53] <hyde00001> answering my own question, google says 8.19cm
[22:55] <userscott2> Cheers for that - I'll have to make one too - is that 8.19 for the central bit or the four legs also? :o
[22:56] <hyde00001> http://www.csgnetwork.com/freqwavelengthcalc.html says for the central bit..
[22:58] <hyde00001> I'm under the impression that the length of the radials is of less importance and longer is fine - certainly on my payload boxes I've used longer
[22:59] <userscott2> Smashing
[22:59] <hyde00001> As an aside, I can't recommend this enough: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Au5C3_MPQY
[22:59] <Ian_> Just a thought, are you aware of #pits ?
[23:00] <hyde00001> brilliant brilliant method for making payload antennas
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[23:02] <Ian_> Where the Pits denizens lurk with the inside information. Not to detract from the excellent advice here though.
[23:02] <Ian_> Worth a shout during the day/evening.
[23:03] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KK6GIP-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KK6GIP-11
[23:04] <hyde00001> Ian - good call, though I find the zeusbot logs of this channel to be the most amazing source of information...
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[23:17] <hyde00001> time for bed...
[23:17] hyde00001 (~hyde00001@cpc69050-oxfd25-2-0-cust745.4-3.cable.virginm.net) left irc:
[23:18] LWK (LWK@pdpc/supporter/student/lwk) joined #highaltitude.
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[23:20] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03YPADSONDE after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YPADSONDE
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[23:49] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RSIST after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RSIST
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[00:00] --- Fri Sep 22 2017