highaltitude.log.20170920

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[00:13] <Laurenceb_> http://radiosondemuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/NCAR_Quarterly.pdf
[00:13] <Laurenceb_> there
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[08:21] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DL7AD-12 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DL7AD-12
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[09:16] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BARC6 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BARC6
[09:17] <KT5TK> We've launched an SBS-12 floater with a camera tracker a few hours ago. Pictures via APRS > SSDV at http://ssdv.habhub.org/ . Callsigns DL7AD = ssdv QVGA / DL4MDW = ssdv VGA / DL7AD-12 APRS position & telemetry. Also visible on the habhub tracker.
[09:18] <KT5TK> Solar powered (6 cells) and supercaps only
[09:19] <Rebounder> cool :)
[09:19] <fsphil> images are suprisingly complete for having gone over aprs
[09:20] <KT5TK> 2x redundand transmission of picture packets
[09:20] <Rebounder> ah
[09:20] <Rebounder> KT5TK: you do own APRS-tracking also?
[09:21] <KT5TK> I'm currently in Berlin with the callsign DL4MDW
[09:21] <fsphil> good idea
[09:22] <KT5TK> The nnew OV5640 camera makes much better pictures than the OV2640 we used earlier.
[09:22] <fsphil> yeah. the exposure times look fine
[09:24] <fsphil> https://ssdv.habhub.org/images/2017-09-19--13-02-23-DL4MDW-1A937.jpeg
[09:25] <KT5TK> The problem with OV2640 is that the exposure time correlates with the clock speed. The micro-controller can't sample the picture data fast enough, so we always had over-exposed images. The OV5640 shutter speed is independent from the clock
[09:25] <fsphil> ooh interesting. there's no software control of the shutter at all on the OV2640?
[09:26] <KT5TK> fsphil: (DL7AD) yes and no. there is a register which you can set but it only makes the image darker but nothing else.
[09:27] <fsphil> the images I got from the OV2640 where always too dark
[09:28] <KT5TK> (DL7AD) the advantage of the OV5640 is, that you can gate PLCK under HREF (PCLK := PCLK and HREF). so i can sample PLCK with a timer and the DMA.
[09:28] <KT5TK> but the quality of the OV5640 is better too.
[09:28] <KT5TK> the publish date of the OV2640 is 2001 or so and 2013 for the OV5640
[09:28] <fsphil> .. or OV9655. I've got my OV cameras mixed up
[09:29] <KT5TK> :D
[09:29] <KT5TK> (DL7AD) they have a register which tells you the type
[09:29] <Rebounder> KT5TK: the redundant picture-packets are interleaved, or in order?
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[09:30] <KT5TK> The same packet directly after the first. (2 packets, 2 packets, 2 packets ...)
[09:30] <DL7AD_> boo...!
[09:30] <DL7AD_> here i am
[09:31] <DL7AD_> (redundant)
[09:32] <fsphil> don't be so harsh on yourself :p
[09:32] <fsphil> it's all working very well so far
[09:35] <Rebounder> KT5TK: okidoki
[09:38] <KT5TK> I guess we'll get pictures from it for a longer time now. (at least I hope so.
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[09:38] <KT5TK> The prediction says it'll loop over Europe for a while.
[09:39] <Rebounder> planned floaterheight?
[09:39] <PE2BZ> KT5TK nice images, and good slow ascent ! Camera pointing downwards ?
[09:39] <KT5TK> 45 degrees downwards. Unfortunately upside down :(
[09:40] <DL7AD_> it's just a matter of a register being set correctly in the camera. but I forgot it.
[09:41] <PE2BZ> Windhooze has a key for that, to flip the monitor output ;-)
[09:41] <KT5TK> planned floaterheight = 12km
[09:41] <Rebounder> ah
[09:45] <Mike-SA6BSS|2> prediction http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=510b310234321ef3f89bf0dcd158b863c517ea67
[09:46] <Mike-SA6BSS|2> Rebounder:might come your way
[09:47] <Rebounder> aha
[09:48] <Mike-SA6BSS|2> burst :/
[09:48] <Mike-SA6BSS|2> ?
[09:49] <fsphil> levelling off again
[09:49] <Mike-SA6BSS|2> looks like it
[09:49] <Mike-SA6BSS|2> it hoing up again
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[09:50] <Laurenceb_> !whereis HIRFW-6
[09:50] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb_: 03HIRFW-6 was over 03Caribbean Sea 10(14.48107,-75.03785) at 0313999 meters about 0311 hours ago
[09:50] <KT5TK> GPS hickup. The air pressure decreases constantly.
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[09:54] <Mike-SA6BSS|2> yep, defenately going up againg
[09:54] <Rebounder> Had ny thoughts of the capacity of the APRS-network?
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[09:59] <fsphil> DL7AD_: I fixed your images :p
[09:59] <KT5TK> Haha, Thanks very much!
[09:59] <fsphil> I need to remember to take that hack back out again
[09:59] <DL7AD_> fsphil: thx :P
[09:59] <fsphil> or those two callsigns will always be upside down
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[10:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03dsimmons_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=dsimmons_chase
[10:03] <Rebounder> DL7AD_: my thougts were how much packets one are able to send over an area with x digpeaters etc before it's saturated
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[10:04] <DL7AD_> Rebounder: the images are sent without path
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[10:05] <Rebounder> ah
[10:05] <KT5TK> The APRS-IS network can handle a constant flow of packets. Over the air it depends on how others consider a fair share of the ressources
[10:06] <Rebounder> right
[10:06] <fsphil> it's the most interesting use of APRS in a while
[10:06] <Rebounder> was just thinking of available "airtime" over an area
[10:06] <KT5TK> We transmit a packet every 20 seconds
[10:07] <KT5TK> Some car trackers do the same wit a WIDE2-1 path...
[10:07] <DL7AD_> we do WIDE1-1
[10:07] <KT5TK> We don't use any path for the picture packets
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[10:12] <Jordan_> Hi guys! Cornwall flight is up and running! Were on 434.650 , bd 300, shift 600
[10:12] <Jordan_> get tracking!
[10:13] <PE2BZ> GM Jordan_ where do you expect it to travel to ? 300 bd over that distance is not the best reception for me ;-)
[10:14] <Jordan_> Expecting to travel to plymouth, no further
[10:16] <Jordan_> PE2BZ i think at some point I'm going to have to talk to you al about what the best bd solution is.
[10:16] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Why do you use 300Baud when just sending telemetry ?
[10:17] <Jordan_> until then, We will deal with it
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[10:18] <Jordan_> gonzo_: your the only listener in range atm. 434.650, bd 300, shift 600 if you can :)
[10:18] <Jordan_> Geoff-G8DHE-Lap: I don't know otherwise, certainly a job to look into.
[10:19] <BARC> hi all, we got BARC5 back in the end yesterday, Pi was still on but just showing a red light - antenna or GPS module issue perhaps but backup tracker saved us!
[10:19] <BARC> as a side note, is anyone aware of anyone conducting launches in scotland?
[10:20] <Jordan_> I wondered where it went.
[10:20] <SpeedEvil> BARC: there have been in the past one or two
[10:20] <SpeedEvil> BARC: but not recently I think
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[10:22] <PE2BZ> Geoff-G8DHE-Lap it´s the default setting in the PITS configuration. I had a chat with Jordan about it some time ago but having no roots in radio transmissions and RTTY it was not logical for him to change those settings.
[10:22] <PE2BZ> Jordan_ I can talk freely now ;-)
[10:23] Action: PE2BZ has to ask Google Maps where Plymouth is
[10:23] <Jordan_> PE2BZ: you couldn't talk freely before? Or were you otherwise occupied?
[10:23] <Jordan_> haha!
[10:24] <PE2BZ> I have been called by the Russian last weekend....
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[10:24] <Jordan_> Deary me
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[10:25] <PE2BZ> Did not have a clue why, they left a voicemail message which I did not understand.
[10:25] <PE2BZ> Then I decided to add the number to my contacts and tried WhatsApp in English
[10:25] <PE2BZ> That worked :-)
[10:26] <PE2BZ> My payload from last Sunday had dropped in the water next to the callers ship. My number was on it so he decided to call that before the ship set sail to India via Portugal
[10:26] <Jordan_> I'm glad you are free ;)
[10:27] <PE2BZ> But me not picking up the phone (at 00:30 middle of the night) made him decide to drop the sonde back in the harbour water....
[10:28] <Jordan_> Wow.
[10:28] <PE2BZ> But let´s start educating instead of entertaining :-) Do you have any idea where BD stands for in 300 BD ?
[10:29] <Jordan_> baud?
[10:29] <PE2BZ> Great! And baud stands for ?
[10:29] <AndyEsser> Bits And Uther Data
[10:29] <AndyEsser> :)
[10:29] <Jordan_> signal power?
[10:30] <PE2BZ> Baud is for Bits per Second.. Bad Andy ;-)
[10:30] <AndyEsser> PE2BZ: :)
[10:30] <AndyEsser> technically it's symbols per second :P
[10:30] <Jordan_> so 300 bits per second is 300 bd gotcha
[10:30] <PE2BZ> So 300 Baud means that the signal send 300 Bits per second
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[10:31] <PE2BZ> That has as pro that you can send much data in short time
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[10:31] <PE2BZ> So, for images, large data packets and so on, the 300 bd is preferred
[10:31] <Jordan_> So lowering the baud would increase the sending time but decrease the amount of bits sent?
[10:31] <Jordan_> ah
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[10:32] <Jordan_> Thats why the default pisky.txt has camera = Y
[10:32] <PE2BZ> The Pits software defaults to camera transmission indeed
[10:32] <Vaizki> well baud is actually how many symbols per second.. in 2FSK it's 1 bit per symbol so 300 baud = 300bps.. but if you relay for example 4 bits per second (as in 9600bps modems), it's still 2400 baud * 4 = 9500 bps
[10:32] <Vaizki> so in RTTY .. baud = bps .. but in other modulations maybe not
[10:32] <PE2BZ> Vaizki thanks, you are right, but Jordan is a starter and I am only one level up ;-)
[10:33] <rl4215> Hi everyone, I'm planning a launch this saturday in Gloucestershire. Could someone approve my flight document 'LKR01' please, thanks
[10:33] <daveake> "Baud rate, which controls how quickly information is sent. 300 baud is a good speed to set if your tracker is going to send images as well as telemetry; if not then set it to 50 baud."
[10:33] <daveake> ^ from the PITS manual
[10:33] <PE2BZ> Good morning Dave. Is there a manual ;-) ?
[10:33] <Jordan_> GM daveake
[10:33] <AndyEsser> rl4215: you need to post the flight doc id in #habhub
[10:33] <daveake> Theoretically
[10:33] <Vaizki> PE2BZ, I think it's worth explaining the difference as it's not a difficult concept at all :)
[10:34] <rl4215> ok thanks
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[10:36] <Vaizki> I think 300 baud/bps was the last phone line "voice modem" where there was only one bit per symbol (using AFSK) so 300baud=300bps.. in 1200bps modems already they used PSK and 2 bits per symbol
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[10:37] <Jordan_> So to conclude: 50 bd for tx only, and 300 bd for images
[10:37] <Vaizki> 50 bd for telemetry only yes
[10:37] <PE2BZ> Jordan_ the higher the speed of data you want / need to receive, the better your reception and signal to noise has to be. So with 50 or 75 bd I can easily receive good packets over 400 km of distance. With 300 bd my reception is much more critical, yesterday I had no greens at all from any of the 300 bd flights. That also has to do with the large use of radio controlled cranes over here (the west of Holland) which share the
[10:37] <PE2BZ> freqencies which are used for payloads in the UK
[10:38] <Jordan_> So best to use 50 bd then
[10:38] <PE2BZ> The good news is, they use 25 kHz rounded frequencies over here, so if you could choose frequencies 12.5 higher or lower as your ¨standard¨ frequencies that also would improve a lot, at least for the listeners from Holland
[10:39] <PE2BZ> As example 434.162 instead of 434.150 or 434.137
[10:39] <Jordan_> I use 50.0 I think, 434.150, 434.250 and so on up to 434.750
[10:40] <Jordan_> Oh HDSDR shifts it by like .020 on the tuner sometimes anyway, I don't think we have access to that level of precision.
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[10:42] <daveake> Nothing to do with HDSDR; it's the precision of the MTX2 on PITS that matters, and that that's plenty good enough.
[10:42] <daveake> -that
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[10:43] <PE2BZ> Jordan_ so, if you could add 12.5 to all your usual frequencies that would be great. So 434.1625 434.2625 and so on.
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[10:43] <Jordan_> PE2BZ: Any negative effects to doing that?
[10:43] <daveake> One more digit to type in the payload doc :)
[10:43] <Jordan_> Thanks daveake
[10:44] <PE2BZ> :-)
[10:44] <Jordan_> Haha oh no
[10:44] <daveake> Ad the flight announcement
[10:44] <daveake> and pisky.txt
[10:44] <daveake> the list goes on :)
[10:44] <Jordan_> I think I can manage :)
[10:44] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ROWES1_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ROWES1_chase
[10:44] <PE2BZ> But he reuses the docs :-)
[10:45] <PE2BZ> Jordan_ https://imgur.com/a/GM1z9
[10:46] <PE2BZ> That´s the competition in frequency use over here, with 27 m antenna height.
[10:46] <PE2BZ> So, 434.150 could work today. But 434.250 I would have no chance in receiving any RTTY signal at all
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[10:48] <rinnn62> !BARC6
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[10:49] Nick change: BrainDamage_ -> BrainDamage
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[10:51] <daveake> !dial BARC6
[10:51] <SpacenearUS> 03daveake: Latest dials for 03BARC6 10(9ab7): 03434.65 MHz, 0.1 MHz
[10:52] <Jordan_> I think it's just cornwall today :P
[10:54] <gonzo_> what freq for barc6?
[10:55] <daveake> Nothing here
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[10:56] <daveake> Aside from a strong local signal which is probably an NTX2 left on somewhere :/
[10:56] <gonzo_> ok, now I read the chat......
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[10:56] <Jordan_> 434.650, bd 300, shift 600
[10:58] <gonzo_> rr, seeing it, but weak at mo
[11:24] <Mike-SA6BSS|2> balloon telemtry filter option is live on http://wsprnet.org/drupal/wsprnet/map
[11:25] Nick change: Mike-SA6BSS|2 -> Mike-SA6BSS
[11:25] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03YPADSONDE after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YPADSONDE
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[11:41] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RSIST after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RSIST
[11:44] <PE2BZ> Jordan_ give me 2 km before burst ;-)
[11:45] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03DELTA-2 after 034 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DELTA-2
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[11:50] <daveake> Interesting prediction for next Wednesday ...
[11:51] <daveake> https://i.imgur.com/7BTvHA8.png
[11:52] <SpeedEvil> :)
[11:54] <fsphil> looks like someone just scribbled on the screen
[11:55] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0314 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
[11:56] <Laurenceb> !whereis HIRFW-6
[11:56] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb: 03HIRFW-6 is over 03North Atlantic Ocean 10(24.48107,-75.03785) at 0312999 meters
[11:56] <Laurenceb> congrats aadamson
[11:57] <Laurenceb> over 1 year in the air
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[11:58] <Darkside> wow
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[11:59] <fsphil> nice!
[12:00] <PE2BZ> Daveake I like my prediction for Sunday. 7 km to pickup the Pie. Hope it does not change much https://imgur.com/a/BBq6F
[12:01] <daveake> Yeah, wouldn't need to change much to get wet
[12:01] <daveake> nice one aadamson
[12:04] <Sirius-BE> hm, quite in the huricane zone
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[12:26] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03Infinity2 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Infinity2
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[12:41] <aadamson> 364d 22hrs... not to survive for 2 more hours :)...
[12:41] <aadamson> thanks for the positive comments!
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[12:42] <Laurenceb> !whereis HIRFW-6
[12:42] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb: 03HIRFW-6 is over 03North Atlantic Ocean 10(24.52274,-74.78785) at 0313776 meters
[12:42] <Laurenceb> interesting how its going up about 1km during the daylight now
[12:43] <aadamson> haha, that's only because of the WSPR telemetry
[12:43] <Laurenceb> its on aprs now
[12:44] <aadamson> if I don't get both spots, I only have altitude in 1000's of meters
[12:44] <aadamson> once I get the second, I have it in 111 meters
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[12:45] <aadamson> nah, not APRS, only WSPR
[12:45] <aadamson> at the moment
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[12:45] <Laurenceb> it says aprs on the tracker
[12:45] <Laurenceb> !whereis HIRF-6
[12:45] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb: 03HIRF-6 was over 03North Atlantic Ocean 10(19.20543,-66.48798) at 0313838 meters about 033 days ago
[12:45] <Laurenceb> odd
[12:45] <aadamson> it always says that because of my script is only pushing to aprs
[12:45] <Laurenceb> ah
[12:45] <aadamson> for WSPR
[12:46] <aadamson> there is no direct support for WSPR as it's technically not made for moving objects, we just retasked the protocol
[12:46] <Laurenceb> yeah
[12:46] <aadamson> I think to think of it as voyager protocol for moving objects :)
[12:46] <aadamson> 162 symbols in 110 seconds
[12:47] <Laurenceb> what is the tx power?
[12:47] <aadamson> 10mW
[12:47] <Laurenceb> impressive
[12:47] <Laurenceb> I was looking at published envelope supercooling data
[12:48] <aadamson> yeah it works really well, in 364 days (almost 365), there have only been 4 days where it didn't report because of propagation
[12:48] <Laurenceb> looks like 15C supercooling is about the max that can be expected
[12:48] <Vaizki> what is a symbol in wspr btw?
[12:48] <aadamson> WSPR is 4 tone FSK at 1.46hz
[12:48] <Laurenceb> so something like 6grams of lift loss
[12:48] <aadamson> tone separation is 1.46hz as well
[12:49] <Laurenceb> so it could fly for another year in theory
[12:49] <Vaizki> right.. but the 4-FSK only carries 1 bit of data, right? it must sync at each symbol on those speeds?
[12:50] <aadamson> yeah that make sense and based upon some other experience that we have from more heavy payloads and supercooling, there is a case where they get into a run away condition
[12:50] <Vaizki> I remember that it uses some pseudorandom sequence like GPS to get the sync done
[12:51] <aadamson> Vaizki, I don't think there is a sync with WSPR, it's rather odd and is why you have to completely post process the I/Q or audio to determine where the carrier is and follow it
[12:51] <aadamson> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSPR_(amateur_radio_software)
[12:51] <russss> WSPR is externally synchronised
[12:51] <russss> you have to start transmitting at the right time
[12:52] <aadamson> and it seems everyone is all *over the moon* about FT-8, the new (but not as good, in some ways) protocol
[12:52] <russss> I haven't tried FT-8 yet
[12:52] <aadamson> yes, transmission has to start a 1 second past the even minutes
[12:53] <aadamson> Vaizki, each of the 4-FSK carries one symbol, it's heavily FEC'd so there are something like 50 bits of actual data, but 162 symbols
[12:57] <Laurenceb> aadamson: less at 15C supercooling is more common
[12:57] <Laurenceb> 10C supercooling is about 5 times as common
[12:57] <Laurenceb> so perhaps 16 months of flight
[12:58] <aadamson> only 4 more to know :)
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[12:58] <Laurenceb> in that article I linked last night they think that UV limited duration is very good at 45k feet
[12:58] <Laurenceb> as its still shielded from most of the uv
[12:59] <Laurenceb> so almost 3 years for mylar
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[12:59] <SpeedEvil> I guess ozone is rather higher
[13:02] <Laurenceb> it looks like nylon6 films are not as resistant
[13:03] <Laurenceb> but maybe 20 months if I scale the lab test data
[13:03] <Laurenceb> previously I'd estimated 9 months, but that was scaling mylar data from 20km altitude
[13:03] <Laurenceb> didn't realise it's nicer at ~14km
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[13:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RTLS2 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RTLS2
[13:21] Nick change: SopaXorzTaker -> RoshHaShanaXT
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[13:36] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RTLS1 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RTLS1
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[13:56] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RTLS3 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RTLS3
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[14:13] <Laurenceb> !whereis HIRF-6
[14:13] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb: 03HIRF-6 was over 03North Atlantic Ocean 10(19.20543,-66.48798) at 0313838 meters about 033 days ago
[14:13] <Laurenceb> !whereis HIRFW-6
[14:13] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb: 03HIRFW-6 was over 03North Atlantic Ocean 10(25.48107,-75.20452) at 0313776 meters about 035 minutes ago
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[14:16] <fsphil> aprs images still coming in nicely
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[14:21] <Laurenceb> !whereis DL7AD
[14:21] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb: I haven't got a clue
[14:21] <Laurenceb> !whereis DL4MDW
[14:21] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb: I haven't got a clue
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[14:22] <DL7AD> !whereis DL7AD-12
[14:22] <SpacenearUS> 03DL7AD: 03DL7AD-12 is over 03Chomutov District, Czechia 10(50.42947,13.3639) at 0311514 meters
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[14:22] <Laurenceb> aha
[14:22] <DL7AD> the balloon has just supercaps
[14:23] <DL7AD> so it's going for maybe one or two hours for today
[14:23] <DL7AD> and will wake up tomorrow hopefully again
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[14:27] <fsphil> any photos of the payload?
[14:27] <Laurenceb> https://github.com/DL7AD/pecanpico9 ?
[14:27] <Laurenceb> did you use a stencil for the bga stm32?
[14:28] <DL7AD> yes
[14:28] <DL7AD> The pp9 doesn't use the BGA anymore
[14:28] <Laurenceb> ok
[14:28] <Laurenceb> ah chibios based, a nice choice
[14:28] <DL7AD> but for the pp8 we have used a stencil.
[14:28] Action: Laurenceb uses it for work projects
[14:28] Action: DL7AD too
[14:30] <Laurenceb> https://github.com/DL7AD/pecanpico9/blob/master/tracker/software/threads/tracking.c
[14:30] <DL7AD> Laurenceb: We have moved away from the BGA because it made the PCB very expensive. We needed 0.1mm traces, 0.2mm drills
[14:30] <Laurenceb> ^does that tx a log via aprs?
[14:30] <Laurenceb> ah
[14:31] <DL7AD> Laurenceb: the tracking manager saves the log to the internal flash. but log.c sends it out. but I didn't have enough time to implement log.c properly. so logging yes but no transmission :/
[14:31] <Laurenceb> ah
[14:32] <aadamson> https://www.dropbox.com/s/z6tq0vdxvtzqvxm/Official.png?dl=0
[14:32] <aadamson> ok, now it's official :)
[14:32] <Laurenceb> WSPR makes things nicer
[14:32] <Laurenceb> oh nice
[14:32] <Laurenceb> well done
[14:32] <DL7AD> omg.
[14:32] <DL7AD> what a krazy path...
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[14:33] <DL7AD> congratz aadamson
[14:33] <aadamson> I want to see what 36ga mag wire looks like after year in the UV :)... oh and the soldermask, and the balloon, and, and, and
[14:33] <aadamson> thanks Sven... nice work on your efforts as well!
[14:33] <DL7AD> thx
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[14:33] <DL7AD> I hope we will get some interesting photos around the world :P
[14:34] <aadamson> me too!
[14:34] <aadamson> what envelop are you flying on?
[14:34] <DL7AD> SBS12
[14:34] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SSTAR0166 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SSTAR0166
[14:34] <aadamson> ah... restricted from using the 13?
[14:35] <DL7AD> we also have a 13. but we had one 12 and one 13. and we wanted to go step by step
[14:35] <aadamson> HIRF(w)-6 is on a 13 with 7gr total weight payload and 12gr freelift
[14:35] <Laurenceb> now if you have a couple of 6gram drop weights...
[14:36] <DL7AD> our SSDV tracker has 17g in total.
[14:36] <aadamson> good thing too cuz it wouldn't have survived 2 weeks ago when it went from 14km to 3km for 2 days and then back up... dang storms
[14:36] <Laurenceb> then drop 6 grams every 8 months or so
[14:36] <aadamson> what did you fly for Free lift?
[14:36] <DL7AD> 8g
[14:37] <DL7AD> exactly what the manual says :)
[14:37] <aadamson> cool, will be fun to see what happens... trick to all of this *get as HIGH as you can!!!*
[14:37] <Laurenceb> aadamson: according to that article I linked, ~45k feet is actually optimal
[14:38] <Laurenceb> due to UV versus icing tradeoff
[14:38] <Laurenceb> unless you can UV treat the envelope of course :P
[14:38] <DL7AD> aadamson: are you flying on a supercap or LiPO?
[14:38] <aadamson> SC, those little tiny 1.5F ones
[14:39] <DL7AD> aadamson: what temperature do you experience usually up there?
[14:39] <aadamson> it's just large enough that I can get one last WSPR out after the sun goes down
[14:39] <aadamson> -60C
[14:39] <DL7AD> still?
[14:39] <DL7AD> I thought it's getting warmer
[14:39] <aadamson> no have to get above 14 to start to get warmer around 20
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[14:39] <aadamson> km
[14:40] <DL7AD> hm...
[14:40] <Laurenceb> one day I'll try making this thermal IR power idea...
[14:40] <Laurenceb> whats the mean power consumption of HIRF-6 ?
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[14:41] <aadamson> let me see I have something around here I can figure that out from
[14:41] <DL7AD> Laurenceb: we could transmit IR images. but my QVGA IR camera is a littlebit expensive
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[14:41] <Laurenceb> heh
[14:41] <DL7AD> it connects by USB and we have USB
[14:42] <Laurenceb> I might be making a usb host project for work with stm32f4
[14:42] <Laurenceb> not fun
[14:42] <DL7AD> host for what? mass-storage-device?
[14:42] <Laurenceb> audio devices
[14:42] <DL7AD> or the camera?
[14:42] <Laurenceb> lots of them
[14:42] <DL7AD> ah
[14:43] <aadamson> Laurenceb, *run current with everything on* (minus the radio) is around 8mA but it's only one for 30 seconds ever 2 minutes so divide that by 4 and it's around 2mA (plus radio which is +20mA for 1 second APRS, and +20mA for 110 seconds WSPR)
[14:43] <Laurenceb> last time I looked at some numbers iirc about 10mW was possible with a 10cm diameter IR collector
[14:44] <Laurenceb> so it kind of sounds feasible
[14:44] <aadamson> the F0 was *much* better than the L1 for a low power platform :)
[14:44] <aadamson> those numbers are running it at 8mhz clock
[14:45] <aadamson> just so the PWM for APRS was so raspy, it would have be made to run slower if only doing WSPR
[14:45] <Laurenceb> but it needs some proper sim code first
[14:45] <fsphil> aadamson: you get many hab points if you manage to recover this payload :)
[14:45] <Laurenceb> for longware ir the design is very sensitive to parameter tweaks
[14:46] <aadamson> fsphil, wouldn't that be awesome!!! I know
[14:46] <aadamson> where is that geofenced cutdown when you need it!
[14:46] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03U3B-9 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=U3B-9
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[14:59] <Laurenceb> https://imgur.com/j7rQGjU
[14:59] <Laurenceb> maxing out on the high tech materials
[15:00] <DL7AD> Laurenceb: what is that?
[15:00] <Laurenceb> my idea of rthermal IR power
[15:00] <Laurenceb> *for
[15:01] <Laurenceb> needs more simulation work first, the choice of diameter, peltier module etc is very critical
[15:01] <DL7AD> do you have aerogel?
[15:01] <Laurenceb> it can be ordered...
[15:01] <DL7AD> and how should it all work?
[15:02] <Laurenceb> at altitude the mean free path of the air molecules increases, it might be possible to obtain aerogel like insulating effects without aerogel
[15:02] <Laurenceb> but again - something I havent had time to look at
[15:02] <Laurenceb> upwelling thermal IR heats the bottom sheet to about 20C hotter than the top sheet
[15:02] <DL7AD> what is the hot side? the graphite sheet?
[15:02] <Laurenceb> the peltier puts out about 10mW
[15:02] <Laurenceb> yes
[15:03] <DL7AD> and how is it heated?
[15:03] <Laurenceb> another thing is that off the shelf peltier modules are optimised for ~45C, not -60C
[15:03] <Laurenceb> its heated by longwave IR radiation form the earth
[15:03] <DL7AD> ah
[15:04] <Laurenceb> I need to discuss with an expert, perhaps Perkin Elmer FAE
[15:04] <Laurenceb> they sell low temperature mini peltier modules for photodiode cooling
[15:04] <Laurenceb> those might be ideal for this
[15:05] <DL7AD> it's getting darker now
[15:05] <DL7AD> the pecan takes 4mA in IDLE.
[15:06] <DL7AD> that's way more than your peltier-idea could power ^^
[15:07] <DL7AD> when the camera was switched on the last time, the voltage dropped a little bit in the SC
[15:07] <Laurenceb> hmm
[15:07] <Laurenceb> 4mA at what voltage?
[15:07] <DL7AD> 4V
[15:07] <Laurenceb> ah, 16mW
[15:08] <DL7AD> the STM32 takes quite a lot until you go in stop mode.
[15:08] <Laurenceb> well same ballpark as thermal ir power
[15:08] <DL7AD> but I have to figure out a way how I synchronize all my threads, so I can use sleep modes.
[15:08] <Laurenceb> heh yeah thats the issue with rtos
[15:09] <DL7AD> unfortunately ChibiOS doesn't even support dynamic frequency changes.
[15:09] <Laurenceb> https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/average-erl-temperature.jpg?w=1000&h=
[15:09] <DL7AD> I run the code at 6MHz (AHB and APB) but I have to switch to 48Mhz when capturing the image.
[15:10] <Laurenceb> toasty
[15:10] <Laurenceb> ok
[15:10] <Laurenceb> so much energy there is you could only capture it
[15:10] <Laurenceb> 240W/m^2
[15:10] <DL7AD> :)
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[15:12] <Laurenceb> *if
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[15:13] <DL7AD> Laurenceb: what temperature difference do you expect?
[15:14] <Laurenceb> about 20C
[15:14] <Laurenceb> as you can see the effective temperature below the balloon is ~ -10C
[15:15] <DL7AD> Laurenceb: I have a Peltier element. 4x4cm which weights 20g
[15:16] <Laurenceb> yeah thats way too big
[15:16] <Laurenceb> this would use the photodiode modules
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[15:18] <fsphil> the wide angle of that camera reminds me of the huygens images from titan
[15:19] <DL7AD> we have reborn cassini
[15:19] <DL7AD> but we are not going to crash it on purpose :P
[15:19] <fsphil> a titan hab would be an amazing project
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[15:20] <fsphil> solar wouldn't be much use there sadly
[15:21] <Laurenceb> IR to the rescue :P
[15:21] <Laurenceb> unfortunately no solar = no ir
[15:22] <fsphil> well there is light but it'll be quite feeble
[15:23] <DL7AD> how much?
[15:24] <DL7AD> wikipedia: Before sunlight reaches the surface, about 90% has been absorbed by the thick atmosphere, leaving only 0.1% of the amount of light Earth receives.
[15:25] <fsphil> nice
[15:25] <fsphil> I calculated saturn only gets 1% of the sunlight earth does
[15:26] <fsphil> that's not even considering titan's atmosphere at whatever height a hab would float there
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[15:26] <DL7AD> fsphil: i have heard the atmosphere is very thin
[15:27] <fsphil> titan has a thicker atmosphere than earth at the surface
[15:28] <DL7AD> then I have been wrong
[15:28] <fsphil> on the plus side, solar cells work better at low temperature
[15:28] <DL7AD> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_(moon)#/media/File:TSSM-TandEM-Montgolfiere.jpg
[15:28] <Rebounder> mm, how much power per sqm at 10 km? if 1000W at alt 0
[15:30] <DL7AD> Rebounder: 1.367kW/m^2 without atmosphere on earth.
[15:31] <Rebounder> aah
[15:31] <DL7AD> raw from the sun (no efficiency included)
[15:31] <SpeedEvil> On earth?
[15:31] <DL7AD> yes
[15:31] <DL7AD> (source german wikipedia)
[15:31] <SpeedEvil> ah - yes - misread who was who
[15:32] <fsphil> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunlight#Intensity_in_the_Solar_System
[15:32] <Rebounder> DL7AD: mm, so you first wikipedia was for saturn? :)
[15:33] <DL7AD> ehh.... what?
[15:33] <Rebounder> "Before sunlight reaches the surface, about 90% has been absorbed by the thick atmosphere, leaving only 0.1% of the amount of light Earth receives."
[15:34] <DL7AD> yes
[15:36] <fsphil> we need solar farms on mercury
[15:37] <Rebounder> why not just a really really big magninfying glass? :)
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[15:42] <Ian_> Solar condensers
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[15:48] <KT5TK> https://github.com/DL7AD/pecanpico9
[15:49] <KT5TK> https://wordpress.com/post/kt5tk.wordpress.com/994
[15:49] <DL7AD> that link is private KT5TK
[15:50] <KT5TK> Sorry, https://kt5tk.wordpress.com/
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[15:58] <DL7AD> KT5TK: I cannot find the video
[16:00] <Rebounder> DL7AD: great pics on the SSDV
[16:01] <DL7AD> Sun elevation is now 10°
[16:01] <DL7AD> if the SC voltage drops below 4.0V, no new image is sent out
[16:01] <DL7AD> that is the case now
[16:01] Action: Rebounder aawes at degree-sign. :)
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[16:02] <DL7AD> the solar cells are probably a bit overpowered but it helps now.
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[16:17] Nick change: day__ -> daey
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[16:24] <DL7AD> Rebounder: no more images for today
[16:24] <KT5TK> Launch Video: https://youtu.be/Ve3WRkj-_DQ
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[16:28] <PE1ANS_> is here any admin which can approve fight id 7f2cb07a0bf292eed1912aafb4a0c92e pse...
[16:29] <daveake> you need #habhub
[16:30] <PE1ANS_> i no Dave but don't get anny responce
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[16:31] <daveake> Ah right. Patience is needed :)
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[16:31] <PE1ANS_> I will tnx...
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[16:42] <fox123> hello friends knows someone frequency and mode DL7AD-12
[16:43] <DL7AD> APRS 1k2 AFSK 144.8MHz
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[16:43] <fox123> OK TNX
[16:43] <DL7AD> do you have an APRS receiver?
[16:44] <fox123> Yes, my callsign OK1SLA
[16:45] <DL7AD> fox123: I provide a script which can decode the images. https://github.com/DL7AD/pecanpico9/tree/master/decoder/pecan_rx_gui
[16:45] <DL7AD> but the tracker runs on supercaps and it is not transmitting during the night
[16:48] <fox123> txn for your info 73
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[16:58] <Rebounder> fox123: tip, get at real irc-client and hang around here :)
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[17:13] <DL7AD> that's it for today. the tracker has gone to sleep
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[17:21] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03W3CDG-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W3CDG-11
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[17:42] <aadamson> DL7AD, Sven you need that image overlay feature and put telemetry in the corner of the images :)... nice work!
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[17:57] <DL7AD> aadamson: thx! yes. I think that could be possible.
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[17:57] <DL7AD> that has been the best image today: https://ssdv.habhub.org/images/2017-09-20--07-50-38-DL4MDW-1A93B.jpeg
[18:13] <fsphil> hopefully it survives the night
[18:19] <daveake> 434
[18:19] <daveake> oops
[18:19] <fsphil> 343
[18:26] <daveake> .650
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[18:28] <fsphil> repeater input? UH OH
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[18:57] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VGER - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VGER
[19:05] <DL7AD> fsphil: http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/198816_trj001.gif wakes up 0500Z over the Adriatic Sea
[19:06] <DL7AD> fsphil: I did an error in the forecast setup http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/198888_trj001.gif
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[19:07] <DL7AD> south-east Italy
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[19:09] Nick change: [1]michal_f_home -> michal_f_home
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[19:50] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RTLS2 after 036 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RTLS2
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[20:29] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03XX - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=XX
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[20:59] <Laurenceb_> !whereis HIRFW-6
[20:59] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb_: 03HIRFW-6 was over 03North Atlantic Ocean 10(28.31441,-75.20452) at 0313776 meters about 038 minutes ago
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[23:17] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03YPADSONDE after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YPADSONDE
[23:40] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RSIST after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RSIST
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[00:00] --- Thu Sep 21 2017