highaltitude.log.20170914

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[00:30] <darsie> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFIz7W4LRVw
[00:31] <darsie> the nEXT85 - Going where no turbomolecular pump has gone before....
[00:31] <darsie> :)
[00:31] <darsie> no pump action, though ...
[00:31] <darsie> just advertisement, it seems.
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[01:04] <labjg> Morning all
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[04:28] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ballon_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ballon_chase
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[05:00] Nick change: en4rab_ -> en4rab
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[05:22] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03U3B-8 after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=U3B-8
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[06:52] <PE2BZ> !flights
[06:52] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Current flights: 03Dixon254 10(b897)
[06:52] <PE2BZ> !Coffee
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[07:51] <pb0ahx> !flights
[07:51] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Current flights: 03Dixon254 10(b897)
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[08:09] <_Jordan> Mornin' everyone
[08:10] <pb0ahx> morning _Jordan today a BARC ???
[08:10] <_Jordan> Launches are on friday!
[08:10] <pb0ahx> ok
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[08:12] <_Jordan> Today's a quiet day, just trying to finalize my planning for a listening station then I'll order the parts, want to take a look at what I got
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[08:17] <_Jordan> https://gyazo.com/a0038b2b9966f72ee98bd71c60873072
[08:17] <_Jordan> Is this setup license exempt?
[08:18] <Vaizki> if it doesn't transmit it's always exempt
[08:19] <craag> as long as you don't listen to anything that you really shouldn't be... (yes you're fine)
[08:20] <_Jordan> Awesome, my intentions as you already know is to listen to my own payloads and also payloads in the hab community :)
[08:20] <craag> Great :)
[08:21] <_Jordan> Right is Geoff-G8DHE in here?
[08:21] <_Jordan> I need to go over some ebay pages with him to make sure I'm buying the right thing
[08:22] <Vaizki> _Jordan, the one thing I would change is get a real N-to-SMA cable between the LNA and antenna, as N-connectors are pretty weatherproof already (but I'd still put self-vulcanizing tape over it)
[08:23] <_Jordan> Whats an LNA ?
[08:23] <Vaizki> but admittedly on the X-50N the connector is nicely shielded from direct water by the aluminum tube
[08:23] <Vaizki> LNA = Low Noise Amplifier = HAB Amp
[08:24] <_Jordan> Awesome so no changes then, part from rig the connectors with waterproof duct tape?
[08:24] <Vaizki> not duct tape, butyl tape
[08:24] <_Jordan> Waterproof electrical tape
[08:24] <craag> aka self-amalgamating tape
[08:24] <Vaizki> Nitto or 3M preferably. there are some really shitty brands out there
[08:24] <Vaizki> craag, ty, didn't know the british name for it
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[08:25] <craag> eg. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Black-Self-Amalgamating-Waterproofing-Connections/dp/B000KH9UHM
[08:25] <gonzo_> Though there are a few personal preferences coming out here, it's nice to see a general consensus, rather than the usual bun-fight, when groups of hams are involved
[08:26] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PE2BZ-12mw - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PE2BZ-12mw
[08:27] <Vaizki> ham-fisted melee
[08:28] <gonzo_> not sure what you meant by a real N-SMA lead?
[08:28] <craag> like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SMA-Male-to-N-Male-Adapter-Connector-Coax-Coaxial-Cable-3-3Ft-1M-/361358683416
[08:28] <craag> instead of sma-sma + adaptor
[08:28] <craag> ^^ that's the cable I use on my ariss s-band receiver, works well :)
[08:28] <gonzo_> have not seen arguments actually break into a fight yet. Thgough iot would probably settle things quicker
[08:29] <_Jordan> So this would replace my 50 cm coax sma male to male wire?
[08:29] <_Jordan> cable*
[08:29] <craag> that and the adaptor yes, you might want to find a shorter one if you only need 50cm
[08:30] <craag> basically adaptors add loss, and are weak points mechanically too, so good to avoid them if you can
[08:30] <gonzo_> I'd go for an N-N RG213 lead from the anrtenna into the loft, then an adaptor. And use clamp fitted N types, as they are more waterproof than the crimp ones. (But use self amalg tape as well)
[08:31] <gonzo_> the loss on thin cable will prob be more than a good qual adaptor
[08:31] <Vaizki> and check out how to tighten N and SMA connectors.. tl;dr - don't rotate the body of the connector while tightening
[08:32] <gonzo_> the bun fight is starting!
[08:32] <AndyEsser> I need to sort out my RG213 N-x cables to be able to finally get all my stuff set up again
[08:33] <gonzo_> I will see your eclair, and raise you a custard slice
[08:33] <mfa298> _Jordan: possibly useful pages on the wiki for some coax and connectors https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:rf_connectors https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:rf_cables
[08:33] <mfa298> might help with starting to recognise some of the types / options out there
[08:34] <_Jordan> so use N to N coax cable to the loft > N to SMA male adaptor (in loft) > HabAmp?
[08:36] <Vaizki> good quality coax is thick and often stiff so N is a more robust connector (and universally loved) to put on a cable you might later use in another kind of setup. so it makes sense in that regard.
[08:36] <_Jordan> Awesome lemme update my diagram and I'll post it back in :)
[08:39] <_Jordan> https://gyazo.com/da18b3bbb357545f6e394bff568d7a18
[08:39] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP5RZP-11 after 0317 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP5RZP-11
[08:40] <mfa298> there's not necessarily a right way or wrong way to do the setup. The main aim is to minimise losses between the antenna and habamp/lna.
[08:41] <_Jordan> So considering all of my changes, this should work?'
[08:42] <mfa298> the losses are minimized by using better (usually more expensive and larger) coax and by reducing the coax length.
[08:42] <mfa298> after that it's a trade off between cost/accessibility/waterproofing etc
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[08:42] <_Jordan> Well I'm going to use the loft so i can acess the Habamp.
[08:43] <_Jordan> rig it with waterproof electrical tape
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[08:45] <mfa298> if you can get the habamp on the inside of the wall where the antenna is mounted and drill a hole through (so shrter coax length) that's probably the setup I'd go with
[08:46] <mfa298> means you don't need the same weather proofing for the habamp and it's accessible if you ever want to try something else
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[08:46] <_Jordan> Yeah habamp will be in the loft on a window ledge will that be good enough?
[08:47] <mfa298> the X50 would also work for listening to the 2m ham band, and other nearby bands - but the habamp will filter those out (which is good for hab)
[08:49] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> As a thought how are you mounting the aerial itself, you will need a stub mast and fixings to whatever its attached to ?
[08:49] <mfa298> if the window ledge is near where the coax comes in and the antenna is mounted then that's good enough. If you're having to go the length of the loft space then I might reconsider the location
[08:51] <Vaizki> _Jordan, also you want a drip loop where the antenna cable goes inside, http://www.4gon.co.uk/solutions/images/antenna_cables.jpg
[08:53] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Also don't leave the Habamp in direct sunlight the heat build up never does electronics any good
[08:54] <Vaizki> and while on drip loops, can someone explain me why so much cable in some drip loops.. like http://images.meredith.com/diy/images/2009/03/p_SCW_240_02.jpg
[08:54] <Vaizki> isn't a single loop or just a bend enough..
[08:54] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> blinking heck! had spare cable for later re-route perhaps!!!
[08:54] <_Jordan> okay
[08:55] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PITEL after 0311 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PITEL
[08:55] <fsphil> all that and they didn't insulate the connector :)
[08:55] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> that looks set up to me, some of thse turns are loose anyway
[08:56] <_Jordan> so a drip loop at the antenna cable? or at the hab amp?
[08:56] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> where ever you don't want water running into a hole or anything
[08:56] <_Jordan> ah
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[08:56] <Ian_> I guess that there is cable spare for unexpected contingencies.
[08:57] <_Jordan> Yeah
[08:57] <Vaizki> http://brightcove04.o.brightcove.com/2270581185001/2270581185001_5143759294001_5085274906001-vs.jpg?pubId=2270581185001
[08:57] <Ian_> having water run down a cable and into equipment is an expensive option :)
[08:58] <Vaizki> drip loops are also great when plugging aquarium pumps etc into the mains
[08:58] <Vaizki> you don't want water in the wall socket
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[09:00] <Ian_> Sometimes the actual size of the loop has to do with the practicalities of ensuring that there is enough cable to allow the antenna to be lowered in the preferred manner without finding that the wiring put in after the event becomes a problem of having to work ten foot off the ground.
[09:02] <Ian_> Notwithstanding any of the advice given already, here are some factoids: PL259 (advised against) has a nominal 50R impedance, but above 100MHz it starts to depart from that quite badly, so for UHF TX it is indeed a poor choice.
[09:04] <mfa298> for drip loops, largeer cables will have a larger bend radius, ideally you want the drip loop outside to keep the water outside (drip loop inside would potentially bring the rain water into your house)
[09:06] <Ian_> RG213 coax is VERY rigid, so attaching to lightweight bits of kit either means that they can't easily be sat where you might want them, rather the cable has to be secured to achieve equipment placement. On a bad day a heavy/rigid cable can exert strains on equipment sockets. Just something to think about.
[09:09] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Another aspect is don't put adaptors outside, they are not always waterproof unlike the straight plug/sockets
[09:10] <Ian_> Finally - you will be glad to hear - RG176 is very lossy, so long cable runs using it should be taken under advisement. Advantages, excellent flexibility, lightweight and a natural for SMA connectors
[09:10] <_Jordan> so can I just leave the loft window open rather than drilling a hole?
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[09:13] <_Jordan> is there a coax that isnt as flexible as RG176, but is less lossy over a 10-15 metere run?
[09:13] <Ian_> Electrical tape is not a substitute or other name for Self Amalgamating Tape. First two items.
[09:13] <Ian_> http://cpc.farnell.com/c/tools-maintenance/adhesives-sealants-tapes/tape/self-amalgamating-tape
[09:16] <Ian_> RG58/U or RG8, both considered to be lossy compaired to RG213, but a lot better than RG176 over 10m+. Listen to mfa298, craag and Geoff though as they have the ball.
[09:16] <Ian_> Bring your coax in from under the eaves if possible to avoid water ingress.
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[09:16] <Ian_> AFK taxi for wife.
[09:16] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> You would be unwise to leave a window open in a loft!, either drill the frame or bring it in under the tiles/slates etc.
[09:18] <_Jordan> So I need a drill that the sky+ workers use :)
[09:18] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> What sort of roof is it?
[09:20] <_Jordan> This one :) https://gyazo.com/52b134c661cebcb5343aefbf622bb4af
[09:21] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> I think I would drill the wood frame myself, angling it downwards from the inside, and once the cable is in position use a sealent to stop any moisture getting in from outside as well.
[09:22] <_Jordan> okay
[09:22] <_Jordan> i'll write that down
[09:22] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> or there is a lead flap at the bottom bring it in under that and then thru the frame.
[09:23] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> but some lead flashing can be brittle so test a little bit first to see if there is enough flexibility to lift it safely!
[09:23] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Are you mounting the stub mast on the window frame or on the chimmeny ?
[09:25] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> maybe drop the TV aerial a few inches down the mast and then the X50 above it off the top, but make sure the fixings to the chimney are good enough for the strain.
[09:26] <_Jordan> think I'm going to mount it on the chimney.
[09:28] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Mind the slates then, there normally very fragile!
[09:28] <_Jordan> I know a guy with a ladder, and it aint me :)
[09:29] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> :)
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[09:38] <mfa298> making friends with a good, local antenna installer might be worthwhile :)
[09:39] <mfa298> maybe also finding the local amateur radio club (although head the earlier warnings of hams not agreeing)
[09:44] <gonzo_> if using an installer/someone not radio mionded, suggest assembling the antenna/cable etc on the ground, so they just have to clamp it in place.
[09:44] <gonzo_> few tv anmtenna installers would know much about these types of installs
[09:45] <gonzo_> unless they also do commercial/pmr installs
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[09:54] <_Jordan> Okay so I found a dude who can mount the x50-N to the chimmney
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[10:00] <_Jordan> Rigth time to look for parts
[10:04] <_Jordan> Do people mind if I post the ebay links here so I can get other opinions on what I'm ordering?
[10:07] <Rebounder> no problem
[10:07] <_Jordan> Rebounderhave you seen my ss of my Listening post diagram
[10:08] <Rebounder> nope
[10:08] <_Jordan> https://gyazo.com/fea97d2791ff76076a6e65f1a9168153
[10:10] <_Jordan> First up is the antenna its self:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/X-50N-X-50-N-X-50-X50-DUAL-BAND-COLLINEAR-ANTENNA-AERIAL-144-440-/192219330847?hash=item2cc12a391f:g:e5AAAOSwNSxU8Gh0
[10:10] <AndyEsser> not a terrible price
[10:11] <AndyEsser> I got mine from www.radioworld.co.uk and they've always been great whenever I've had to contact them with questions about stuff
[10:11] <_Jordan> I'll take a look AndyEsser
[10:11] <AndyEsser> it's £10 dearer with RW
[10:11] <AndyEsser> but depends what postage is like on ebay
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[10:12] <_Jordan> Free P+P
[10:12] <Rebounder> _Jordan: how log line from amp to airspy?
[10:13] <_Jordan> like 10-15 metres.
[10:13] <Rebounder> oki
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[10:13] <Rebounder> i would probably skip the upper 213 for some more fexibel short cable to the amp
[10:14] <_Jordan> wouldn't that provide more loss though, and loss before the pre amp is bad
[10:14] <Rebounder> marginal
[10:14] <Rebounder> and you can use better cable if you want
[10:14] <_Jordan> marginal enough to notice when tracking?
[10:14] <_Jordan> nah cheaper is good :)
[10:15] <PE2BZ> How about Aircell 7 ? 7 mm diameter and as good as RG-213 @ 434 MHz
[10:15] <Rebounder> you want you habamp in a box with cables from below, the x-50 is probably nice to mount it on, then that pipe onto the chimney
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[10:16] <mfa298> 2m of rg58 might be reasonable and you could stick an N plug on one end and SMA on the other and not need an adaptor, I'm not sure I'd want to go any longer with rg58 though.
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[10:16] <Rebounder> _Jordan: so, you end up to do a 180 degree turn from the outgoing pip to the box
[10:17] <Rebounder> _Jordan: you will need about 1-1.2m at max
[10:17] <_Jordan> Rebounder so my habamp will be in my loft
[10:17] <Rebounder> aah
[10:18] <mfa298> Rebounder: I think the plan now was having the habamp inside (in the loft) rather than outside
[10:18] <Rebounder> thought you wanted at the antenna
[10:18] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvim4rsNHkQ Woo! Blooper reel for SpaceX
[10:18] <AndyEsser> SpeedEvil: it's not a blooper real
[10:18] <AndyEsser> it's a catlogue of iteration :P
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[10:18] <Rebounder> i use dvb-amps, weather ok, a N-F adapter, amp, F-N adatper, then down.... all ok to have within the pipe itself
[10:19] <acid5> lol
[10:19] <Rebounder> _Jordan: oki, with amp in loft then some more flexible cable like the aircell is better
[10:20] <_Jordan> so aircell over rg213
[10:21] <acid5> lool
[10:21] <_Jordan> aircell 7 2 meters?
[10:23] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
[10:23] <mfa298> aircell7 looks to be similar loss, smaller diameter but higher cost than rg213, so you take your pick of cost vs manageability
[10:24] <_Jordan> i might stick with rg213 then
[10:24] <gonzo_> and prob special connectors.
[10:24] <mfa298> that's based on looking at http://www.nevadaradio.co.uk/cables-leads-plugs/antenna-cable/ssb-electronic-aircell-7---drum and http://www.nevadaradio.co.uk/cables-leads-plugs/antenna-cable/nevada-rg-213u-100m-drum
[10:25] <_Jordan> hmm aircell seems more flexible
[10:25] <_Jordan> just hella expensive
[10:25] <Rebounder> _Jordan: the "high end" normal cable these days are types like the LMR400, much better than 213 but about as stiffy
[10:25] <AndyEsser> WF-108
[10:26] <gonzo_> 213 has been about for a long time. These lower loss air spaced cables are used by hams who want to do long cable runs (and don't want to move their LNAs to the mast)
[10:26] <mfa298> many places will do by the meter as well, but comparing by the 100m drum at decent retailers makes life easy
[10:26] <_Jordan> Ugh im indecisive of the aircell and 213
[10:27] <Rebounder> well, lossrate on 2m cable is not that much... :)
[10:27] <gonzo_> for a few meters into the loft, don't fret about losses etc, keep it simple.
[10:27] <mfa298> AndyEsser: do you mean westflex-103 ? (which is better than rg213, but harder to play with and probably similar cost to the aircell7)
[10:27] <_Jordan> Radioworld suggest RG213
[10:27] <Rebounder> 213 is a checp and nice start
[10:27] <AndyEsser> mfa298: yes
[10:27] <_Jordan> rg213 it is
[10:28] <Rebounder> short pieces of 213 should be free :)
[10:28] <Rebounder> i still rely on my storage of "made in west germany" :)
[10:30] <Rebounder> _Jordan: just make really sure that you get the connection at the antenna waterproofed
[10:30] <_Jordan> is it better to pay the extra dime when purchasing from a trusted site such as radioworld than ebay knock offs? Or do ebay do good stuff too?
[10:32] <AndyEsser> _Jordan: I personally like the fact that I can drive to the Radioworld shop and get stuff if there's an issue
[10:32] <AndyEsser> for example, my first X50 quite clearly was run over my a forklift truck by DHL
[10:33] <AndyEsser> so was able to pop down to Radioworld that day to get a replacement - no questions asked and had it in time for a flight
[10:33] <_Jordan> So for an extra £10 its worth buying from radioworld or other equivalents
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[10:33] <Ian_> :) I remember the original telling of that saga . . .
[10:33] <AndyEsser> I was unimpressed
[10:33] <AndyEsser> _Jordan: that'd be my PERSONAL preference
[10:34] <AndyEsser> I'm not a fan of ebay
[10:34] <AndyEsser> but you're probably fine to get stuff from ebay
[10:34] <AndyEsser> especially if saving £10 on every component is going to save you a lot of money
[10:34] <_Jordan> Can I resume to post ebay links here?
[10:34] <mfa298> ebay can give you good stuff, or can give you someones dodgy offcut that's been heavily mistreated.
[10:34] <gonzo_> make sure you get n connectors like this:
[10:34] <gonzo_> http://www.rigpix.com/otherusefulinfo/ug21stg_mount.jpg
[10:35] <gonzo_> The centre pin has a teflon insulator behind and infront of the pin. The pin has a shoulder. This holds the pin in plkace
[10:35] <_Jordan> sorry gonzo that image means nothing to me, I'ma rookie :)
[10:35] <mfa298> you'll sometimes find the likes of radioworld, ml&s, nevada selling off cuts and B grade stuff on eBay which are probably more trust worthy (they'll at least be honest)
[10:36] <gonzo_> otjher types rely on the coax centre core to locate the centre pin. And it never does
[10:36] <Ian_> _Jordan if you google 'spec rg213' substituting the cable type as appropriately, then you can see the various cable attributes (mainly loss per 10m or 100m), for comparison purposes
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[10:37] <gonzo_> if you buy your connectors from a shop, where you can talk to them. Just ask them if theu can supply plugs with the captive centre pin
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[10:37] <_Jordan> I normally order online
[10:38] <mfa298> _Jordan: real product that matches gonzo_'s diagram http://www.nevadaradio.co.uk/cables-leads-plugs/plugs-adaptors/nevada-uhf-258
[10:38] <mfa298> which may (or may not) help make things clearer
[10:38] <_Jordan> Haha it look like I have to build it myself
[10:40] <mfa298> fitting at least one end yourself means you don't need such a big hole to get the cable through.
[10:40] <mfa298> otherwise choosing a shop and talking to them might help get the right thing and some may make a cable up for you for a small fee
[10:43] <Ian_> Ha ha, top tip - when buying other than RG213, RG58, RG8 etc. That means Westflex or Aircell etc., then buy the matching connectors to save a bit of potential grief. Westflex 103 into a standard PL259 (bad example perhaps) needs the 213 inner to be necked down to fit . . . failure mode obvious!
[10:44] <_Jordan> Okay so back to the antenna then: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/X-50N-X-50-N-X-50-X50-DUAL-BAND-COLLINEAR-ANTENNA-AERIAL-144-440-/192219330847?hash=item2cc12a391f:g:e5AAAOSwNSxU8Gh0
[10:44] <_Jordan> this guy^
[10:49] <Ian_> The price is good. I have had no real problems buying over ebay with well over 200 transactions over the years. Most hassle is when it's private sellers with one off bits of kit, from what I hear. Most sellers have a vested interest in being up front and honest. Likewise most buyers with a standard moral compass.
[10:51] <_Jordan> okay i'll add that link to my arsenal, next up is 5m of rg213
[10:51] <_Jordan> which i need help finding haha
[10:52] <_Jordan> I kinda want to strive away from too many adapters, so im looking for 5m RG213 N-Type male connectors on each end
[10:55] <PE2BZ> _Jordan prefab with connectors ?
[10:56] <_Jordan> Yeah
[10:58] <Ian_> Good plan, adaptors have around 0.5dB loss associated with each one. each 3dB is a halving of the available signal power.
[10:58] <PE2BZ> Why do they sell that with PL connectors...
[10:59] <_Jordan> I'm talking to a radio world dude who might be able to hook me up with a custom request for my rg213
[10:59] <AndyEsser> _Jordan: where do you live?
[10:59] <Ian_> Moonraker, Nevada + + http://www.moonraker.eu/wire-cable-guy-rope-and-patch-leads you may be interested in the cables and patch leads options.
[10:59] <_Jordan> AndyEsser tad personal :)
[10:59] <_Jordan> Uk
[10:59] <_Jordan> Sheffield
[10:59] <Ian_> Buy more than you need, as it's a pisser coming up a half metre short . . . expensive mistake for a longer run.
[11:00] <AndyEsser> lol - was more asking because I have a drum of RG213 at home which I'm not going to use any time soon
[11:00] <_Jordan> AndyEsser you in the US then?
[11:00] <Ian_> AndyEsser travels to Sheffield for cup of coffee and biccies
[11:00] <AndyEsser> _Jordan: nope, north wales
[11:00] <SpeedEvil> If we could somehow collectivise 'stuff not going to use any time soon' we could do a lunar landing.
[11:00] <AndyEsser> but sheffield is a bit too far for 5m of rg213
[11:00] <AndyEsser> haha
[11:00] <AndyEsser> SpeedEvil: true
[11:00] <Ian_> :) similar
[11:00] <SpeedEvil> Shipping is annoying.
[11:00] <_Jordan> What about 10 m of rg213 AndyEsser :P
[11:01] <SpeedEvil> And of course finding things.
[11:01] <AndyEsser> _Jordan: get a quote first, if it's extortionate then I'll see :)
[11:01] <Ian_> Jammy dodgers and a keen price
[11:01] <_Jordan> I'll see where this radioworld assistant takes me
[11:02] <AndyEsser> who is it? Sam?
[11:02] <PE2BZ> https://www.onlinekabelshop.nl/sma-m-n-m-kabel-cfd200-2-5-meter-33924?channable=e17871.MzM3MTg&gclid=Cj0KCQjw0ejNBRCYARIsACEBhDOqtyq_gV5zwfSz8_TVjDAPQVQ5t3nUXyWOhMVtbK5VDThNWAa1X7gaAoOgEALw_wcB
[11:03] <_Jordan> AndyEsser it's "RadioWorld Assistant"
[11:03] <AndyEsser> ha
[11:03] <AndyEsser> christened name?
[11:04] <fsphil> he got his dream job
[11:04] <_Jordan> The radio world dude, is saying that he doesnt have n femal to male sma, but i could use a PL-259 ti SMA
[11:04] <_Jordan> i thought those conenctors are like mega bad
[11:05] <_Jordan> i canny spell
[11:05] <PE2BZ> No PL for above 30 MHz pleaseeeee
[11:05] <Ian_> Look elsewhere. Radio World by definition is going to have limited options.
[11:05] <Ian_> ^^ +1
[11:06] <Ian_> PL259 are good for HF and acceptable for VHF. Forget them for UHF
[11:07] <_Jordan> any other radioworld equivalents?
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[11:08] <_Jordan> "Well, in experience I found 259's working fine on most bands including UHF."
[11:08] <_Jordan> RadioWorld Assistant^
[11:08] <Ian_> RW sell radio equipment, cables are an afterthought by definition.
[11:08] Action: AndyEsser regrets suggesting RW
[11:08] <Ian_> +1
[11:08] <_Jordan> He said I could use BNC's though
[11:09] <Ian_> The Gas man.
[11:09] <PE2BZ> https://www.wifi-stock.co.uk/details/pigtail_n-male-n_male.html
[11:09] <_Jordan> so like Male N to BNC RG213
[11:09] <Ian_> BNC is good for inside and lab type equipment. It is not durable outside
[11:10] <PE2BZ> Find a wifi store with patch cable N to SMA (not to rev - SMA !)
[11:10] <Ian_> What cable type, connector combo and length are you interested in? One at a time please!
[11:10] <mfa298> _Jordan: Nevada radio and Martin Lynch& Sons (ML&S) are the other places I'd tend to look
[11:10] <Ian_> +1
[11:10] <_Jordan> Ian_ Rg213
[11:11] <_Jordan> N to N
[11:11] <_Jordan> 5-10 m
[11:11] <mfa298> I tend to prefer Nevada as they're a short drive away and have useful people to talk to.
[11:11] <Ian_> I meant one cable not each element :)
[11:11] <_Jordan> oh :)
[11:12] <Ian_> No probs. It does mean that you are reading
[11:12] <_Jordan> RG213 N (5-10 metres)
[11:12] <_Jordan> next: N to Male SMA adapter
[11:12] <_Jordan> finally: a cheaper 50r coax SMA male to SMA male (10-15 metres) must be flexible
[11:13] <_Jordan> Yeah I forget to reply most of the time but I'm literally writing all of this down
[11:14] <PE2BZ> https://www.amazon.co.uk/15-Meter-Female-Extension-Coaxial-Connector/dp/B01FW1FZ7E and add one sma male to sma male adapter ?
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[11:16] <_Jordan> I suppose the loss after the pre amp is less important. but trying to keep all of the adapters down to a minimum, a very viable option howver
[11:16] <PE2BZ> The first 5 meter cable: N to SMA male https://www.amazon.co.uk/15-Meter-Female-Extension-Coaxial-Connector/dp/B01FW1FZ7E
[11:16] <Ian_> http://www.moonraker.eu/connectors-and-service-aids/plugs-and-sockets/n-type and RG213 by the metre from same place.
[11:18] <_Jordan> PE2BZ that link doesnt work for me, no clue why
[11:18] <fsphil> worlds worst adapter? https://radioscanning.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/p7151467.jpg
[11:18] <acid5> ?
[11:18] <acid5> why?
[11:19] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03YPADSONDE after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YPADSONDE
[11:19] <fsphil> a union of two great evils
[11:20] <Ian_> Because the cable is stiff so doesn't provide the flexible option required.
[11:21] <Ian_> Another six to nine inches of cable might have made it OK, or a thinner coax and just a few inches more.
[11:23] <_Jordan> Its a bummer that that link wont open PE2BZ sounds like just what i need
[11:23] <mfa298> haha, 15m rg58 extension advertised as a 2.4Ghz extension - a 50R resistor might be as effective. It would be reasonable for the habamp to dongle though.
[11:24] <mfa298> the only issue with that amazon cable is it's male-female (extension) where you probably want male-male for the habamp to dongle
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[11:25] <_Jordan> yeah mfa298 thats right
[11:25] <_Jordan> would the loss from the adapter matter here though?
[11:25] <PE2BZ> But he does not run it @ 2.4 GHz
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[11:26] <PE2BZ> about 5 dB @ 440 MHz with 15 m length
[11:26] <fsphil> you'd need a pre-amp on your pre-amp for using that at 2.4
[11:26] <_Jordan> and a pre amp on top of that one ;)
[11:26] <mfa298> PE2BZ: I'm laughing at what it's advertised for - and did say it would be decent for this purpose (apart from the female end)
[11:26] <PE2BZ> You can try amazon. uk website and search YILIANDUO 15-Meter(49.2 Ft) SMA Female to SMA Male Plug
[11:27] <_Jordan> No PE2BZ that link works, its the 5 m one that doesnt
[11:27] <_Jordan> my first cable
[11:28] <_Jordan> wait PE2BZ you posted the same link twice.. ;)
[11:28] <PE2BZ> https://www.amazon.co.uk/SMA-Male-N-Type-Antenna-Cable/dp/B06VX32X32/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1505388492&sr=1-2&keywords=5+meter+sma+n+type
[11:29] <PE2BZ> The paste works OK ;-)
[11:29] <PE2BZ> The copy did not
[11:29] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP9UOB after 033 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP9UOB
[11:29] <_Jordan> agreed
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[11:30] <Ian_> Amateurs regularly use male to male on cables and join with adaptors - keeps things simple. As you say, RG58 SMA seem to be male to female. An adaptor would be OK although not best between habamp and rx.
[11:31] <Ian_> We all fear trying to get down and dirty with SMA . . . and a soldering iron . . . probably with good reason.
[11:31] <_Jordan> Ian_ does rx mean antenna in this instance?
[11:32] <mfa298> crimp for sma seems to be the best way to go, solder sma seems to be rare
[11:32] <Ian_> Habamp to Airspy
[11:32] <Ian_> How much for a half (or better) decent crimp tool? URL?
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[11:33] <Ian_> I guess that solder will have a lot of variability at that size and damage a lot of cable ends in the process.
[11:34] <mfa298> I've got crimp tools that work ok for the occasional sma for under £15-£20 (you can probably get the cable, connetors and tool from maplin - although that's exppensive for a one off)
[11:35] <Laurenceb> !whereis HIRFW-6
[11:35] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb: 03HIRFW-6 is over 03North Atlantic Ocean 10(28.98107,-55.37119) at 0313443 meters
[11:35] <mfa298> But then I've done a bunch of bnc onto rg58/rg59/urm70 as well so I've saved their value in time
[11:35] <PE2BZ> I find the cables, connectors and tool(s) affordable at wifi stores. Paid about 40 Euro for crimp tool, 10 meter cable and 4 male connectors.
[11:35] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03U3S18 after 0315 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=U3S18
[11:35] <Ian_> Prices of various good crimping tools seems to have come down in recent years and £20 is not an unacceptable price. Twelve connectors makes it a viable option
[11:36] <Ian_> Good thinking Ben
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[11:37] <Ian_> Lots of competition and tools originating from China make sense. In the past £75 for some tooling was asked and that might have been OK for professional use but not hobby.
[11:37] <mfa298> I wouldn't want to use the £20 tools if you were making cables every day, but for hobbiest use they do ok. The only thing I've had issues crimping is the pin on mcx connectors (bit too small for my crimp tool)
[11:39] <Ian_> mcx connector . . . very wee beasties indeed. Not something I would even think about making up except as a pigtail to something else.
[11:41] <Ian_> For so many years the cheap offering were those die stamped steel pliers. Things with a correct action and fixed or replaceable dies are Good.
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[11:42] <Ian_> We digress. How are you coping _Jordan?
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[11:46] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RSIST after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RSIST
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[11:48] <_Jordan> sorry guys just took a quick trip to tesco
[11:49] <AndyEsser> they won't stock N-type connectors...
[11:49] <_Jordan> Ian_ I'm coping quite well, just got to nail my purchases so nothing goes wrong on the day of installation
[11:49] <_Jordan> pahahahahahaha
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[11:50] <PE2BZ> the day that nothing goes wrong.... What day was that again....
[11:51] <_Jordan> you guys are too old for me haha
[11:51] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PILOT-BL after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PILOT-BL
[11:51] <_Jordan> lest age is just a number
[11:51] <PE2BZ> We´d rather be called experienced ;-)
[11:51] <_Jordan> I respect that PE2BZ
[11:52] <PE2BZ> For every mistake I made when installing antennas or flying habs I found a reason and a solution afterwards. However, there are so many new mistakes to make :-)
[11:53] <PE2BZ> Is daveake awake ?
[11:53] <_Jordan> Thats why this is so fun!
[11:54] Action: daveake is never awake
[11:54] <PE2BZ> I had run 4 predictions on one day for a PITS flight next sunday but every 2 hours I ran the prediction it was 30 km in the other direction.... daveake seemend quite shure about the landing location next sunday.... What does he know that I don´t.... Nah, that would be to much ;-)
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[11:55] <_Jordan> So hes like your guru?
[11:55] <daveake> Predictions for where I am have been pretty static
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[11:55] <PE2BZ> _Jordan that supposed to be a secret ;-)
[11:56] <_Jordan> shhhhh I'll keep it that way
[11:57] <PE2BZ> Today my predictions seem to be 7 km apart so tomorrow I will run it agian and then I decide to make a flightdoc.
[11:57] <_Jordan> How many payloads you sending up?
[11:58] <daveake> 1
[11:58] <daveake> lol @ spacex - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvim4rsNHkQ
[11:58] <PE2BZ> 2
[11:58] <PE2BZ> 1 rtty and 1 lora SSDV
[12:01] <PE2BZ> 20 rtty strings and 1 aprs and lora without gps
[12:07] <fsphil> lol, perfect music
[12:08] <daveake> Nicely timed to with some of the explosions
[12:08] <daveake> too
[12:11] <tweetBot> @daveake: Web -1.0 dashboard, to try out during Sunday's flight. #ukhas https://t.co/mLVSWse43t
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[12:13] <AndyEsser> https://twitter.com/LeadHyperion/status/908301813635584000
[12:13] <AndyEsser> *sigh*
[12:13] <AndyEsser> I need to stop starting projects :P
[12:15] <Ian_> Ha ha, every new idea is a total distraction - it will take a strong will or blinkers to keep on the straight and narrow. :)
[12:15] <fsphil> Starting them is never the problem
[12:15] <Ian_> +1
[12:26] <mfa298> with my current project storage system starting new projects will soon require finishing a project *or* eating more icecream.
[12:27] <Ian_> +4
[12:27] <Ian_> Eat for infrastructure.
[12:28] <AndyEsser> ha
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[12:30] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DN1BUY - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DN1BUY
[12:31] <AndyEsser> I'll just rename it to HabOS :)
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[12:46] <_Jordan> Right guys, all that is left to find now is a sma male to male adapter and I think I'm all set
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[12:52] <_Jordan> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products/7620024/?grossPrice=Y&cm_mmc=UK-PLA-DS3A-_-google-_-PLA_UK_EN_Connectors-_-RF_And_Coaxial_Connectors-_-PRODUCT+GROUP&matchtype=&gclid=Cj0KCQjw0ejNBRCYARIsACEBhDOVgAB6lzwovXWXNECENCanlWQ5b7WDgKXHYmOMfgjwpUiUHL1xRyEaAnH-EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
[12:53] <_Jordan> Will a coupler do?
[12:53] <Ian_> Yes
[12:53] <_Jordan> awesome
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[12:55] <_Jordan> https://gyazo.com/0409d10535b0039851589b3ce1343f75
[12:55] <_Jordan> My listening post diagram
[12:55] <_Jordan> (updated)
[12:56] <_Jordan> https://pastebin.com/6cbTkYJ2
[12:56] <_Jordan> My parts list:
[12:56] <PE2BZ> _Jordan the RS link is not a good type, it´s SMAMRP on one side ?
[12:56] <_Jordan> I just posted those in the wrong order
[12:57] <_Jordan> Whats that mean
[12:58] <PE2BZ> SMA RP is reversed polarity. It has the outer screw but the inner hole and not the little pin
[12:58] <_Jordan> oh
[12:58] <PE2BZ> this one, with 90 degrees
[12:58] <PE2BZ> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/rf-coaxial-adapters/1225241/
[12:59] <Vaizki> yea RP-SMA is only for wifi
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[12:59] <PE2BZ> Or the (very) expensive one http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/rf-coaxial-adapters/8194156/
[12:59] <Vaizki> originally invented to prevent (at least for the first 2 months) people from putting higher gain antennas on their wifi gear
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[12:59] <_Jordan> might go for the very expensive one
[12:59] <_Jordan> not a fan of the right angle
[13:01] <PE2BZ> Might be very handy, when the cable to the Airspy ? comes to your computer, a angled connector could be just right.
[13:01] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03EPSOM after 0321 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=EPSOM
[13:02] <_Jordan> yeah your right PE2BZ
[13:02] <_Jordan> 90 deg it is
[13:02] <fsphil> you just did a 180
[13:02] <_Jordan> mind = blown
[13:03] <PE2BZ> out of order, back on 20 september. Is that a problem for you blown mind ?
[13:03] <_Jordan> nah that should be good, some things should take longer than a week to arrive anyway
[13:04] <_Jordan> is there anythign I need to change or have missed before I ordeR?
[13:04] <Ian_> The devil as always is in the detail. I thought that the RS SMA to RSMA plug adaptor wasn't well described.
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[13:05] <_Jordan> yes that is the case. They don't half catch you out on these websietes
[13:05] <PE2BZ> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/rf-coaxial-adapters/7620020/
[13:05] <_Jordan> Is this just incase I don't wanty to wait till the 20th PE2BZ?
[13:06] <PE2BZ> indeed
[13:06] <_Jordan> It's tempting, I might do a full 360.
[13:06] <fsphil> whoa
[13:06] <PE2BZ> A double Onehundredandeighty :-)
[13:07] <_Jordan> Is "Onehundredandeighty" one word?
[13:07] <PE2BZ> At darts is seems to be ;-)
[13:07] <SpeedEvil> It is in darts.
[13:08] <_Jordan> oh man I love darts. not too bad a player either
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[13:08] <fsphil> please don't combine darts and hab
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[13:09] <_Jordan> That would be a "premature burst"
[13:09] <BrainDamage> hopefully, that's not what she said
[13:09] <fsphil> or a throw from 30km. super sonic bullseye
[13:10] <_Jordan> oh dear, it was not an innuendo at all, but a HAB pun
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[13:12] <_Jordan> right... I'm delving into the depths of purchasing online. wish me luck
[13:12] <_Jordan> time to get me a listening station
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[13:22] <_Jordan> The habamp offer a SMA male to male coupler for an extra 3 quid? would that suffice?
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[13:42] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DF3EY - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DF3EY
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[14:31] <Laurenceb> !whereis HIRFW-6
[14:31] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb: 03HIRFW-6 was over 03North Atlantic Ocean 10(26.48107,-55.03785) at 0312999 meters about 0318 minutes ago
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[14:40] Nick change: es5nhc_ -> es5nhc
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[14:46] <PE2BZ> _Jordan I would take that adapter :-)
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[15:14] <_Jordan> Did we say that this is the cable I need? is this RG 213? https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B06VX32X32/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&me=
[15:18] <Ian_> Technically, antenna to habamp, yes. Provided that it is long enough . . .
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[15:31] <_Jordan> okay so 5m won't be long enough for the "antenna to habamp wire"
[15:31] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03PITEL after 037 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PITEL
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[15:38] <Ian_> See, you are learning. If it was long enough, you could buy a 10m one and then have the option of leaving as is or reducing the length by removing the N connector and replacing it . . . with a new one. Options abound. Probably leave it, but the possibility is there for a future small upgrade should you desire it.
[15:38] <Ian_> AFK, gotta go fiddle (violin).
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[15:40] <Ian_> QRX 1930
[15:40] <_Jordan> I can only find ones with PL259
[15:40] <Ian_> ^^ BRBack at
[15:40] <YO9GJX> http://www.southgatearc.org/news/2017/september/radiostrat.htm#.Wbqi4VR96Y0
[15:42] <Ian_> Collective nouns: military elite = Cadre, baccalaureate students = Bunch :)
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[15:56] <_Jordan> crimping is less daunting than I thought, I might just stop worrying about cable connectors and just get crimp connectors insteas (for "antenna to habamp" cable)
[15:57] <adamgreig> so long as you have the right crimp tools and crimp connectors and ideally some way to inspect it :P
[15:57] <_Jordan> (once installed) I can only inspect the end at the hab amp
[15:58] <adamgreig> i just mean when crimping it to make sure you've done an ok job
[15:58] <adamgreig> should be ok. it's worth learning how to do
[15:58] <_Jordan> I'll watch some youtube to build up my confidence haha
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[16:13] <_Jordan> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TWO-CRIMP-ON-N-type-Plug-Male-Connector-Type-COAX-RG213-214-TOP-QUALITY/262034063072?hash=item3d02727ee0%3Ag%3ATNkAAOSwQItUHFyX
[16:13] <_Jordan> Looks kinda fishy
[16:17] <_Jordan> Anyway guys, once again thanks for the help today! I'm heading off for the night
[16:17] <_Jordan> peace
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[16:51] <gonzo_> crimp N types, unless right angled, will rely on the coax for the pin posn. nit good
[16:51] <gonzo_> not
[16:52] <gonzo_> I use right angle suhner ones, as they have a captive soldered pin
[16:52] <gonzo_> and indoor only. crimp are not as waterproof as the clamp stype
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[17:02] <daveake> I like using the r/a SMA plugs - easier to put together with the captive pin
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[17:23] <gonzo_> westlake had a load on nice ra n types. but I had to make a crimp tool to match
[17:24] <gonzo_> my hex crimp didn't seem to work. think the collar was too hard. so one that formed wings to take out the slack, worked great
[17:27] <gonzo_> but did need crimping in the vice. Not always convenient
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[17:30] <gonzo_> but the non captive pins are just bad news
[17:31] <gonzo_> went through the club's leads and binned all the bad plugs. But usually you could tell them just looking at the pin
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[18:11] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03test_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=test_chase
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[18:23] <Ian_> Pushed out quadrant-leafs of N type sockets on equipment is not a happy sight and potentially expensive when the errant plug doesn't get binned.
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[19:26] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Trotzdem_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Trotzdem_chase
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[23:20] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03YPADSONDE after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YPADSONDE
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[23:38] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RSIST after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RSIST
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[23:59] orbyt_ (~orbyt@104-7-15-72.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) left irc: Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz&
[00:00] --- Fri Sep 15 2017