highaltitude.log.20170907

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[00:25] <aadamson> haha... too funny, the balloon survived and is back to 13-14km as of end of day today.... go figure
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[00:57] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KG6LLW_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KG6LLW_chase
[01:15] <Ian_> Extreme high pressure event . . . a bit like the cartesian diver that we have mostly all experienced as kids.
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[09:07] <daveake> Would need to be a low pressure event for it to fall
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[09:17] <Darkside> hrm, need to stay up late tonight
[09:17] <Darkside> spacex launch
[09:19] <daveake> Anything special this tiem? Or "just another" stage 1 landing? :p
[09:21] <SpeedEvil> It's a secret payload
[09:21] <SpeedEvil> x-37 mini-shuttle air force thingy
[09:21] <fsphil> the unmanned shuttle
[09:21] <SpeedEvil> with secret payloads.
[09:21] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: probably
[09:21] <fsphil> yes, probably unmanned
[09:21] <fsphil> it would be a tight fit
[09:22] <russss> especially since it's likely to be in orbit for over a year
[09:22] <fsphil> there's a nintendo switch onboard, they'll be alright
[09:22] <fsphil> if they remembered to bring the charger
[09:23] <russss> it's a good image for Boeing being able to launch it on a SpaceX rocket
[09:24] <russss> "look, you don't have to use our now unnecessarily expensive launch vehicles (but it helps)"
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[09:25] <edmoore> when is falcon heavy due to go up?
[09:26] <russss> this year, maybe?
[09:26] <russss> they've made all the bits for it now
[09:27] <AndyEsser> November-ish
[09:27] <AndyEsser> I still suspect it'll slip to June 2018
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[09:32] <SpeedEvil> It is not going in November.
[09:33] <SpeedEvil> The launchpad is in fact not being altered for FH immediately, there is a launch of F9 there in November, so it's almost certain to slip into 2018
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[09:37] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03VE2WMG-11 after 0320 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VE2WMG-11
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[10:14] <PE2BZ> !flights
[10:14] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Current flights: 03BARC2 10(5431), 03BARC4 10(9380), 03SP9UOB-P30 144.251 MHz CTSTIA 10(cbd2)
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[10:29] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03muffin_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=muffin_chase
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[11:05] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PG_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PG_chase
[11:19] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03YPADSONDE after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YPADSONDE
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[11:41] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RSIST after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RSIST
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[13:07] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 039626566734_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=9626566734_chase
[13:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03U3B-8 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=U3B-8
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[13:43] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KF5KMP-8 after 0314 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KF5KMP-8
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[13:47] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M6Zvi-fFv4 spacex feed started
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[14:00] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP9UOB after 0313 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP9UOB
[14:01] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0314 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
[14:05] <Laurenceb_> wut
[14:05] <Laurenceb_> !whereis HIRFW-6
[14:05] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb_: 03HIRFW-6 is over 03North Pacific Ocean 10(13.14774,-109.78785) at 0313776 meters
[14:05] <Laurenceb_> wut
[14:05] <Laurenceb_> fake data surely
[14:06] <russss> ah nice reentry video today
[14:06] <Darkside> wow
[14:08] <daveake> Beautiful
[14:09] <daveake> Lovely seeing it appear through the bottom of that cloud
[14:09] <Darkside> the shot of it just after takeoff was amazing
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[15:27] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03NA9VY after 034 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=NA9VY
[15:31] <Laurenceb_> !whereis HIRFW-6
[15:31] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb_: 03HIRFW-6 was over 03North Pacific Ocean 10(13.23107,-109.95452) at 0313776 meters about 03an hour ago
[15:31] <Laurenceb_> wut is going on
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[15:58] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DL0PTB - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DL0PTB
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[17:30] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03M6iuf_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M6iuf_chase
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[17:48] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03JA0BXU-5 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=JA0BXU-5
[17:50] <stilldavid> Laurenceb_ it's not dead yet!
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[18:45] <aadamson> Laurenceb_, not fake, it rose from the ashes... Phoenix it appears... reported in yesterday at 3km, then throught the day climbed back up to it's float altitude and has been there ever since - go figure
[18:46] <SpeedEvil> rain?
[18:46] <aadamson> at 47000 ft, kinda doubt it :)
[18:46] <SIbot1> In real units: 47000 ft = 14326 m
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[18:47] <aadamson> no, not sure, current thinking is that a *cold* cloud was below it, and it may not have the free lift it had when it was launched
[18:48] <Laurenceb__> !whereis HIRFW-6
[18:48] <aadamson> the cold, super cooled it and so it descended... *then* it probably did pick up some moisture when brought it down to 3km
[18:48] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb__: 03HIRFW-6 was over 03North Pacific Ocean 10(13.23107,-109.95452) at 0313776 meters about 034 hours ago
[18:48] <Laurenceb__> what the fudge
[18:48] <aadamson> we've see this with *over snow* and over a cold cloud
[18:48] <Laurenceb__> what was the free lift at launch?
[18:48] <aadamson> 12gr
[18:49] <aadamson> 7gr payload
[18:49] <Laurenceb__> wow
[18:49] <aadamson> 105gr envelop
[18:49] <aadamson> on h2
[18:49] <Laurenceb__> well imo its good news and bad news
[18:49] <Laurenceb__> good news its still flying
[18:49] <SpeedEvil> hmm
[18:50] <Laurenceb__> bad news if weather is not good enough for super long duration flights
[18:50] <aadamson> yup... need to watch kf5kmp it's a custom on heptax and was launched in feb
[18:50] <Laurenceb__> UBSEDS seemed to suffer from icing quite a lot
[18:50] <aadamson> has one of my really old trackers on it, but let's see if 15-16km helps
[18:51] <Laurenceb__> but they were flying with less free lift and spherical envelopes at slightly lower altitudes
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[18:51] <aadamson> I thought they were flying on 20+gr freelift?
[18:52] <Laurenceb__> Heptax has a theoretical flight duration of about 4 years from gas diffusion
[18:52] <aadamson> but heavier trackers for sure
[18:52] <Laurenceb__> scaled to the overall mass aiui the free lift was lower
[18:52] <aadamson> ah ok, true enough
[18:52] <Laurenceb__> their film isnt as strong as heptax
[18:52] <aadamson> yeah thinner if I remember right
[18:53] <Laurenceb__> if it really is cooling and lower free lift I guess there is an explanation
[18:53] <Laurenceb__> UV degradation causing permeability to increase
[18:53] <aadamson> that would also explain the other flight... similar conditions, over a storm but above it.
[18:53] <Laurenceb__> interesting
[18:54] <aadamson> and the storm -6 was over was a topical storm yesterday so the lower pressure center may also have effected it both pressure and temp
[18:54] <Laurenceb__> unlike the lifetime under UV, there is tons of data on gas diffusion through these films
[18:54] <Laurenceb__> so its easy to come up with accurate flight time estimates
[18:54] <Laurenceb__> - if it was diffusion limited
[18:54] <SpeedEvil> Also, turbulence over tropical storms is a thing
[18:55] <SpeedEvil> If the downflow exceeds rise-rate, you're going down
[18:55] <aadamson> just when you thikn you are *above* the weather, you get *sucked* into a supercooled cloud or over snow
[18:56] <Laurenceb__> iirc I found some data that showed increased permeability after UV exposure
[18:56] <Laurenceb__> it'd be cool to come up with some sensors to help workout whats going on
[18:57] <Laurenceb__> Leo flew one of his envelopes with baro sensors inside and out, and it was possible to work out the envelope elasticity
[18:57] <SpeedEvil> I guess temp, IR temp in various directions, humidity, would be easy
[18:57] <SpeedEvil> a few tmp006's
[18:57] <Laurenceb__> then I applied the results to B-64, and there was no indication of gas loss
[18:57] <Laurenceb__> I'm thinking an ice detector would be amazingly useful
[18:57] <Laurenceb__> dunno what it would look like tho
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[18:59] Action: SpeedEvil puts on some Vanilla Ice.
[18:59] <SpeedEvil> In principle I guess a mic hooked to the envelope may pick up something.
[18:59] <SpeedEvil> has the issue of data rate though
[19:00] <Laurenceb__> maybe PE film with tmp006
[19:00] <Laurenceb__> ice film might block the ir...time to crunch some numbers
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[19:04] <bertrik> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_detector says an aviation ice detector typically uses an optical measurement principle
[19:05] <Laurenceb__> wait a sec
[19:05] <Laurenceb__> were the multiple reports from low altitude
[19:05] <Laurenceb__> or was it a weird bug?
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[19:09] <aadamson> There were a number of reports yesterday as it climbed back up.
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[19:10] <aadamson> but remember, it's only on WSPR now, so if it doesn't getheard on the second wspr report
[19:10] <aadamson> it can only report altitude to 1000's of meters
[19:10] <aadamson> so if was report 3xxx until hf conditions finally improved
[19:10] <aadamson> and hf sucks due to the CME that happened
[19:11] <aadamson> both yesterday and today its mostly grayline conditions when it's being heard
[19:12] <Laurenceb__> ah
[19:12] <Laurenceb__> looks like a real event then
[19:12] <Laurenceb__> http://www1.lsbu.ac.uk/water/water_vibrational_spectrum.html
[19:12] <Laurenceb__> absorption looks too high if anything
[19:13] <aadamson> yeah, fairly sure this wasn't gps, or something else, its descended at 1.0m/s on the evening that it went down
[19:13] <aadamson> next day, was at 3km and I was shocked when it was heard
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[19:16] <Laurenceb__> ok
[19:16] <Laurenceb__> guess thermal absorption of water is about 1/(10┬Ám)
[19:17] <Laurenceb__> which is actually about the sort of sensitivity you want
[19:19] <SpeedEvil> you can actually efficiently heat water using halogen and quartz
[19:19] <SpeedEvil> most of the energy is absorbed in the water, so properly tuned, you don't get scaling
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[19:26] <Laurenceb__> interesting
[19:26] <Laurenceb__> how to actually measure water thickness is not so obvious
[19:27] <Laurenceb__> maybe 2 tmp006 sensors with different filters on the front
[19:27] <Laurenceb__> actually differential windowed thermopile are available off the shelf
[19:27] <Laurenceb__> not as cheap as tmp006 tho
[19:28] <Laurenceb__> one of those aimed upwards would be the pro way tho
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[20:01] <TT7> Hi everyone
[20:01] <TT7> I intend to launch another superpressure balloon tomorrow morning
[20:01] <TT7> this one is APRS only and the bigger 1.84m envelope
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[20:03] <TT7> details about the tracker http://tt7hab.blogspot.cz/2017/09/the-tt7f4-flight.html
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[20:14] <Laurenceb__> looks like Perkin Elmer make off the shelf windowed thermopiles for water sensing
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[20:23] <SpeedEvil> TT7: interesting. what sort of float alt?
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[20:32] <TT7> based on the previous flights, I'd expect ~13km
[20:32] <TT7> the calculated estimates in the blog are off
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[23:17] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03lala_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=lala_chase
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[23:33] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03YPADSONDE after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YPADSONDE
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[23:37] <userscott> Evening all.
[23:38] <Laurenceb__> !whereis HIRFW-6
[23:38] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb__: 03HIRFW-6 was over 03North Pacific Ocean 10(14.52274,-113.03785) at 0313776 meters about 0339 minutes ago
[23:43] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RSIST after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RSIST
[23:47] <Laurenceb__> aadamson: this looks useful http://www.excelitas.com/downloads/DTS_TPS2534.pdf
[23:48] <Laurenceb__> I've got stuff from exelitas before for reasonable prices
[23:52] <userscott> Getting ready for my first (2) launches.. travelling from Manchester UK to Denver, Colorado, few weeks from now..
[23:52] <userscott> Here is a copy of my overview https://coggle.it/diagram/Wa284IK2OgABvi3-/5c90c462f14f17cb337cd9b951fe25a2a42ba80b817b6a6c88435c7f8d041a2a
[23:52] <userscott> Interested in your thoughts......
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[00:00] --- Fri Sep 8 2017