highaltitude.log.20170627

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[00:39] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRF-6 after 0316 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRF-6
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[05:06] <PE2BZ> !flights
[05:06] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Current flights: 03UolAETHER Second Flight 10(735e), 03Humberstone 10(8bde)
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[08:51] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RTLS1 after 038 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RTLS1
[08:51] <daveake> Testing only ^^
[08:56] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HB9F-11_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HB9F-11_chase
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[09:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK4BW-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VK4BW-11
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[09:30] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KD2EAT-13 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD2EAT-13
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[09:48] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03UolAETHER - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UolAETHER
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[09:59] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DL3CM-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DL3CM-11
[10:02] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KF5KMP-8 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KF5KMP-8
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[10:29] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Soton_FS - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Soton_FS
[10:33] <lostcause> !dials
[10:33] <fsphil> ATDT
[10:34] <lostcause> ATZ
[10:34] <fsphil> NO CARRIER
[10:34] <lostcause> AT&F1
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[10:36] <lostcause> Any ETAs on launches today?
[10:37] <lostcause> I saw someone mention a balloon stuck in an 80ft tree. A drone with a hook might be a fun thing to try for that...
[10:37] <SIbot25> In real units: 80 ft = 24 m
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[10:38] <chris_> Hi there - we are an hour late but Scooby PITS is now on the sky over leicester broadcasting on 434.250 Hz
[10:38] <lostcause> oh nice...let me see if I can get that
[10:39] <chris_> All listeners are very welcome as it soon wen tout of range of my hand held scanner
[10:40] <Darkside> so you mean
[10:40] <Darkside> 'help i need listeners else i can't track it'?
[10:42] <Darkside> were you even uploading to the map?
[10:42] <Darkside> as theres nothing showing up on the tracker
[10:43] <chris_> that would be great if you can track it
[10:43] <chris_> it went quickly out of range for my hand held
[10:44] <daveake> chris_ Did you recover those flights over in Ireland last week?
[10:44] <lostcause> struggling to see anything at the moment
[10:44] <daveake> Last position was quite high iirc
[10:44] <Darkside> chris_: i'm in Australia, so not really possible
[10:45] <Darkside> you should *really* *really* *really* be uploading to the web
[10:45] <daveake> Try harder :p
[10:45] <Darkside> and i dont get what you mean by out of range?!
[10:45] <adamgreig> yea just get a bigger antenna jeez Darkside
[10:45] <Darkside> do you have a wet string attached to your handheld?
[10:46] <Darkside> seriously, with my R10 i can usually decode our rtty payloads for a long time
[10:46] <Darkside> and thats with the *stock* antenna
[10:46] <daveake> same
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[10:47] <chris_> Today I had a whip aeriaL which normally suits me fine but it was hopeless today
[10:48] <Darkside> but you still didnt even upload anything to the tracker?
[10:48] <Andrew_M0NRD> you sure it was the receiver and not the transmitter? seeing nothing here in Newark at the moment, would have expected something by now?
[10:48] <dbrooke_> assuming the same payload it wasn't very strong on previous flights and I see nothing this time so maybe a previously poor antanna connection has now failed
[10:48] <Darkside> nothing but noise and local interference on the suws websdr
[10:48] <Darkside> so yes, this sounds like an antenna issue
[10:48] <Darkside> good luck.
[10:49] <chris_> Hmmm bad news. I have a backup tracker on board thankfully
[10:49] <Darkside> define 'backup'
[10:49] <Darkside> GSM tracker? (unreliable), SPOT? (doesnt give altitude)
[10:49] <Darkside> using either of those in australia would lead to complete payload loss
[10:50] <Darkside> i guess you're vaguely lucky that you have some semblence of a GSM network in the UK
[10:50] <Darkside> but its still a really poor backup system
[10:50] Nick change: dbrooke_ -> dbrooke
[10:50] <daveake> The TK102 thing I tried last time didn't work, and that was dangling in a tree
[10:51] <Darkside> we don't even have GSM here in australia
[10:51] <daveake> The 3G on the Pi did
[10:51] <Darkside> has all been turned off
[10:51] <lostcause> I used a GSM tracker and it's suprising how accurate it was, I compared kml paths and it tracked nearly the whole flight...even the altitude. I got lucky though i think. Didnt need to use the backup but it would have been useful
[10:51] <chris_> http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0YDjTyDgrYT0ixUuI6J20brvOPxb95XLb
[10:51] <Darkside> right, so that'll stop working > 12 or 16km altitude i guess?
[10:51] <Darkside> or do they now have non-shit GPSes
[10:52] <Darkside> also you cant actually tell the altitude from that data, so its a complete guess as to if its landed or not, i guess you have to wait for multiple posits from the same location
[10:52] <lostcause> I used a spot in the US in the desert (without any radio at all) and we had no data at all at any point except about 8 hbours later after it had landed, we recovered it :)
[10:53] <Darkside> and what happens if it lands upside down? are you using some kind of gimbal system
[10:53] <Darkside> becuase it all seems a bit risky
[10:53] <daveake> If I have a payload I really want back, I use a second radio tracker for backup; can't rely on GSM or SPOT
[10:53] <chris_> Thanks guys. Time for the chase.
[10:53] <Darkside> yeah
[10:53] <Darkside> we fly RTTY + LoRa usually
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[10:54] <Darkside> what chase?
[10:54] <daveake> blind
[10:54] <Darkside> he doesn tknow wtf his payload is doing
[10:54] <daveake> s/his payload/he's/
[10:54] <adamgreig> simmer down
[10:54] <daveake> :)
[10:55] <adamgreig> like no one else has ever had an antenna fail or flown a gsm or spot backup
[10:55] <Darkside> <--
[10:55] <Darkside> <_<
[10:55] <Darkside> well, no antenna failure on the main telemetry anyway
[10:55] <adamgreig> *in the UK, where gsm trackers do work often enough
[10:55] <Darkside> i dont understand the use of SPOT as a primary tracker
[10:56] <adamgreig> easy enough to chase just based on the predictions too
[10:56] <Darkside> you jsut don't get enough information to properly understand what's goin gon
[10:56] <daveake> Still 50/50 IME, though I suspect some of that is down to the trackers themselves rather than the network
[10:56] <Darkside> adamgreig: assuming you don't mess up the fill
[10:56] <adamgreig> you have to mess up pretty bad to not know what direction to start driving in
[10:56] <Darkside> sure
[10:56] <lostcause> I had no information at all, I didn't expect to see my payload again. Got very lucky. I prefer using the radio now! But the gps tracker in the UK gave good info
[10:57] <Darkside> i like how even if the GPS screws up with a RTTY tracker, you can always DF it
[10:57] <adamgreig> a lot of schools here use them, or them+spot, and get usefully better than 50/50
[10:57] <daveake> I had a flight where we tried out a new GSM tracker, and after landing I was doing the radio thing to get a position but the guy with the GSM said "I've got the position here on my phone". Spoiled on the fun :p
[10:57] <adamgreig> not that I wouldn't prefer sentintospace to sell a radio tracker too/instead, but that's who people buy from and they sell gsm/spot
[10:57] <daveake> all the fun
[10:58] <mfa298> lostcause: having data via the gsm tracker seems to be a rare thing (I think everyone else has only had launch and landing positions if they're lucky)
[10:58] <Darkside> i had a local group ask us about sentintospace trackers
[10:58] <Darkside> ended up doing the launch for them
[10:59] <Darkside> they had no idea what they were getting into
[10:59] <adamgreig> well obviously, if they were starting out, and then you did the launch for them
[10:59] <Darkside> particualrly given the GSM trackers wouldn't have even worked in australia
[10:59] <Andrew_M0NRD> prediction puts it going close by, might get something here
[10:59] <Darkside> adamgreig: it was a local library, wanting to do a launch for a single event
[10:59] <Darkside> with no planned repeat
[11:00] <Darkside> ended up working out better this way... de-risked the activity for them a lot
[11:00] <Darkside> i point the schools at the habduino stuff :-)
[11:05] <Darkside> i guess what shits me a bit is when you have groups who don't fully understand safety/reliability issues doing paid launches
[11:08] <PE2BZ> !flights
[11:08] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Current flights: 03UolAETHER Second Flight 10(735e), 03Humberstone 10(8bde)
[11:09] <PE2BZ> !dial 735e
[11:09] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Latest dials for 03UoLAether2_ver2 10(735e): 03434.25 MHz, 434.48708 MHz, 434.4872 MHz, 434.4876 MHz, 434.487 MHz
[11:09] <lostcause> I'm tracking UiIAETHER fine, and getting green checksums, but the map isn't showing my green line or my callsign?
[11:10] <adamgreig> is dl-fldigi in online mode?
[11:10] <lostcause> it says it is yeah
[11:10] <adamgreig> do you see "uploaded successfully" messages at the bottom?
[11:10] <lostcause> and says "Uploaded payload_telemtry successfully
[11:11] <adamgreig> what's your callsign?
[11:11] <lostcause> But not appearing on "Received via" and no green line.
[11:11] <lostcause> Callsign is JJPOSI1
[11:11] <adamgreig> you are showing up on "received via" and etc
[11:11] <lostcause> Current prediction is that SCOOBY will land on my antenna
[11:11] <adamgreig> I think your internet is a bit slow so it's only appearing on older packets
[11:12] <adamgreig> try clicking on the path
[11:12] <adamgreig> to see details for older points, you're on the list
[11:12] <lostcause> Internet couldn't really be any faster. It's weird. It's not dropping a single packet
[11:14] <adamgreig> somehow or other it seems you are getting your reports in after most other people, maybe there's some latency in your receiver setup
[11:15] <lostcause> SEems to upload every 15 seconds successfully according to fldigi
[11:17] <lostcause> I mean my report maybe lags behind by 1 second, does that mean I get no green line :(
[11:17] <Andrew_M0NRD> SCOOBY according to the GPS tracker is very close to me, seeing nothing on the waterfall
[11:17] <gonzo__> the green line is a locally checked crc
[11:18] <gonzo__> if it's not green it will not get sent
[11:18] <adamgreig> think he means the line from payload to receiver on the tracker map
[11:18] <lostcause> it is green every time
[11:19] <gonzo__> ok, I'll get mny coat!
[11:19] <lostcause> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ob3ejl6r740sdhg/Screenshot%20from%202017-06-27%2012-18-42.png?dl=0
[11:24] <lostcause> Restarting fldigi doesn't help either. Maybe a problem at the habhub end?
[11:25] <Vaizki> did you check logtail?
[11:26] <lostcause> callsign not appearing there
[11:26] <adamgreig> it wouldn't, it only appears for the first uploader
[11:27] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03UoLAether_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UoLAether_chase
[11:27] <Vaizki> shouldn't the callsign be shown in a line like this? [2017-06-27 11:25:41,567] INFO habitat.parser MainThread: Parsing [ascii] '$$UolAETHER,350,11:25:27,52.200498,-1.989062,6781,9,39,177,76,00*8F8D\n' (f6f1d7c1a11835c15631f540104ab9110bf5a2fa8cd5f67014f0852304e50726) from G8KNN
[11:27] <Vaizki> [
[11:27] <mfa298> lostcause: if you're using an sdr that can add some lag, if there's some #one using a dedicated radio then it's possible they're uploading the next sentence as you upload the previous, especially if the strings are short and appearing quickly
[11:27] <adamgreig> only for the first uploader
[11:27] <Vaizki> oh...
[11:27] <adamgreig> logtail is from the parser, which parses new telem strings once, when received first
[11:27] <lostcause> I can't be having 20 minutes of lag though, i@ve been tracking it constantly for the past 15 - 20 minutes every 15 seconds
[11:27] <adamgreig> if subsequent people upload the same string it doesn't re-parse it (so no new log entry)
[11:28] <adamgreig> lostcause: you are showing up for even the most-recent-but-one packet, that's what I've been saying
[11:28] <adamgreig> click on the payload track on the map
[11:28] <adamgreig> it shows receivers for each received point
[11:28] <adamgreig> you're listed on all of them
[11:28] <Vaizki> ok so it keeps hashes of uploaded strings and just adds the callsign to receivers?
[11:28] <dbrooke> lostcause: you're uploading OK, see http://habitat.habhub.org/stats/
[11:28] <lostcause> oh i See
[11:28] <adamgreig> Vaizki: something like that
[11:28] <lostcause> must be a delay in the SDR then
[11:30] <lostcause> Just doesn't look like my station is actively listening on the map. I get it now. PReviously it has done fine so maybe I need to change a setting somewhere to reduce the lag
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[11:30] <gonzo__> try a refresh of your browser page
[11:31] <gonzo__> it is not an istant update on the map
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[11:31] Nick change: sumie-dh_ -> sumie-dh
[11:31] <lostcause> Would my FFT settings in gqrx introduce lag?
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[11:34] <fsphil> the callsign list should maybe show the callsigns for the current and last packet
[11:34] <fsphil> (last, within reason)
[11:34] <lostcause> That would be nice, to feel more useful
[11:34] <dbrooke> I don't see much difference in lag between gqrx+airspy and IC-R7000, they're both uploading with the same callsign and the expected "UnmergeableError" is sometimes shown for the real radio
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[11:37] <pb0ahx> !flights
[11:37] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Current flights: 03UolAETHER Second Flight 10(735e), 03Humberstone 10(8bde)
[11:37] <pb0ahx> !dial 735e
[11:37] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Latest dials for 03UoLAether2_ver2 10(735e): 03434.488272 MHz, 434.488 MHz, 434.65 MHz, 434.25 MHz, 434.48708 MHz, 434.4872 MHz, 434.4876 MHz, 434.4867 MHz
[11:37] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HB9F-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HB9F-11
[11:41] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RSIST after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RSIST
[11:44] <lostcause> !dial 8bde
[11:44] <SpacenearUS> 03lostcause: Latest dials for 03SCOOBY 10(8bde): 03434.251616 MHz
[11:46] <AndyEsser> is there a fairly standard protocol that AzEl rotators speak? or is it all dependent on make+model?
[11:49] <craag> there's the yaesu GS-232 protocol and variants iirc
[11:50] <craag> assuming you're talking about the RS232 interface
[11:51] <AndyEsser> Yea, the interface between say a PC running dl-fldigi and your rotator to make it track a HAB
[11:51] <AndyEsser> assumed each vendor would have their own variant - as it didn't jump out at me as something that'd be standardised
[11:51] <gonzo__> easytrack2 is a common one too
[11:51] <gonzo__> that has the advantage that it will aloow decimal degrees
[11:51] <gonzo__> gs232 is integer only
[11:52] <craag> yeah I gave up on gs232 due to integer only - didn't see easytrack2
[11:52] <craag> mine now speaks deci-degrees over UDP
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[11:53] <AndyEsser> ok cheers - shall investigate
[11:53] <gonzo__> i rewrote the LVB tracker to use the decilam degrees internally, to alloow the full 10bits of adc to be used
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[11:54] <gonzo__> think pjm tried it with the esaytrack?
[11:54] <gonzo__> though that is a quite old design now
[11:55] <craag> I'm at the limit of my 12-bit ADC on resolution :D , accuracy however... need to get rid of the relays
[11:59] <AndyEsser> I guess if you have source location (in lat/long) and target, and altitudes
[11:59] <AndyEsser> it's fairly trivial trig to calculate the angles to point at the target?
[11:59] <AndyEsser> do you have to take into account curvature of the earth at these distances?
[11:59] <gonzo__> prob not
[11:59] <gonzo__> and uhf yagi's are not going to be that directional
[12:00] <gonzo__> +- a few deg is fine for yagis
[12:00] <AndyEsser> what about microwave dishes?
[12:00] <gonzo__> not for much GHz dishes though
[12:00] <fsphil> there's code in dl-fldigi for calculating bearing
[12:00] <gonzo__> 10GHz on a 3mtr dish, is about half a degree beamwidth
[12:01] <craag> also HABrotate :P
[12:01] <gonzo__> so 0.;1 deg is the aim
[12:01] <gonzo__> (pun?)
[12:01] <AndyEsser> craag: yes yes :P
[12:01] <AndyEsser> but... want to learn a bit of this stuff myself, and also for a none-HAB related project
[12:02] <craag> :)
[12:04] <lostcause> so I just remembered I'm using rtl-tcp the lag must be between the pi and my laptop. Doh. Didn't notice it before though so it must have got worse.
[12:05] <lostcause> Not helped by the fact that I am remotely controlling my laptop via VNC as well, which adds network traffic and makes me forget that there is no SDR dongle attached directly.
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[12:15] <lostcause> fixed, restarted rtl-tcp on the pi
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[12:18] Nick change: Wiktor_ -> Wiktor
[12:25] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03K6STS-11 after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K6STS-11
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[12:32] Nick change: Ian_ -> Guest21839
[12:33] Nick change: Guest21839 -> Ian_G0pai
[12:42] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03WB4ELK-4 after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WB4ELK-4
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[12:58] <AetherOli> Our weather balloon is taking a very jagged path at the moment! (UolAether)
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[13:03] <AetherOli> Our weather balloon keeps moving in the opposite direction to the wind prediction haha
[13:04] <dbrooke> maybe turbulence in the transition region
[13:05] <dbrooke> it's a nice steady signal though
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[13:06] <AetherOli> We are testing an experimental descent system, I imagine that probably has something to do with it as well!
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[13:10] <dbrooke> I think the live prediction assumes 5m/s ascent (not sure if it adapts before burst) and your balloon is climbing slower
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[13:11] <AetherOli> I see. Is slow ascent ununsual dbrooke ?
[13:13] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP5RZP-11 after 0321 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP5RZP-11
[13:13] <dbrooke> most people aim for 5 m/s, there's a risk it might float rather than burst at lower rates
[13:14] <AetherOli> I see, so it could end up significantly far from the prediction? depending on whether it reaches burst altitude soon or not?
[13:14] <daveake> It should still follow the prediction, more or less. You do get these odd circular wind patterns though.
[13:14] <AetherOli> right got it
[13:14] <fsphil> they are just predictions after all :)
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[13:14] <daveake> :)
[13:15] <daveake> I've had one apparently drive round a roundabout
[13:17] <dbrooke> did it go round the right way?
[13:18] <gonzo__> probbaly to read the signs
[13:19] <AetherOli> aha nice :)
[13:21] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03N1YIP-11 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N1YIP-11
[13:22] <mattbrejza> looks like that spot stopped transmitting on landing..
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[13:27] <AetherOli> Does the predictor estimate altitude or velocity or similar along the path?
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[13:30] <daveake> The spot doesn't even send altitude ?
[13:30] <daveake> Oh I have a vague recollection of someone hacking one to add it
[13:31] <AetherOli_> Oh okay. Just theres a lot of uncertainty at the moment as its nearing burst altitude but so slowly
[13:31] <daveake> AetherOli_: What size balloon is that?
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[13:32] <daveake> Something small I guess
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[13:32] <AetherOli_> Few kg, sorry don't have the details on me at the moment. I'm abroad and monitoring it for the team in the chase car
[13:34] <daveake> "a few kg" ... the payload is a few kg ?
[13:36] <Ian_G0pai> Infinite uncertainties: abroad, as in out in the country rather than overseas? Monitoring it for the team in the chase car as opposed to monitoring it, for the team, in the chase car?
[13:36] <AetherOli_> around 2kg I think
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[13:36] <Ian_G0pai> Don't worry Oli, you are doing a sterling job.
[13:37] <daveake> OK, well, the CAA are aplpying new rules to anything over 2kg, making it very, very difficult to fly those
[13:37] <Ian_G0pai> What no Merican models then?
[13:37] <daveake> e.g. have to launch from a "danger area", lodge a flight plan, have multiple cutdowns. That's AIUI anyway; Steve has been through all this.
[13:38] <AetherOli_> Ah okay that's good to know for future launches
[13:38] <daveake> Makes it a huge incentive to keep below 2kg
[13:39] <daveake> Looks like yours is floating btw
[13:40] <lostcause> Coming down...
[13:40] <AetherOli_> yup slow descent now
[13:40] <AetherOli_> Yeah I checked with them its 2.8kg, so future launches might need adjustments
[13:40] <mattbrejza> whats on it?
[13:41] <lostcause> And how does 2.8Kg come down slowly?
[13:41] <AetherOli_> Our descent system must be working :)
[13:41] <lostcause> (I suppose weight is irrelevant though)
[13:41] <daveake> It's still inflated lostcause it's basically floating
[13:41] <daveake> Or possible there's a leak
[13:41] <AetherOli_> (I hope)
[13:41] <lostcause> Is your system, letting helium out slowly?
[13:41] <daveake> descent system as in controlling amount of gas ?
[13:42] <AetherOli_> Yes to both
[13:42] <daveake> Parachute for backup ?
[13:42] <AetherOli_> Yup
[13:42] <daveake> Good (relieved to hear that!)
[13:42] <lostcause> Interesting, going to travel a good long way though...where do you predict it to land?
[13:42] <Ian_G0pai> Elsewhere!
[13:43] Nick change: Ian_G0pai -> Ian_
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[13:46] <fsphil> have you a vent at the bototm AetherOli_?
[13:46] <fsphil> bottom*
[13:46] <AetherOli> Hopefully I didn't miss much, internet keeps cutting out
[13:46] <AetherOli> Yes fsphil
[13:46] <fsphil> ah
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[13:46] <fsphil> that might not be enough to bring it down
[13:46] <garymortimer> a vent at the bottom, what a time to arrive!
[13:47] <fsphil> it may just become a zero pressure floater
[13:47] <AetherOli> Ah right, because of the upward force like a rocket?
[13:47] <daveake> AetherOli: The current CAA form (see https://ukhas.org.uk/general:restrictions_legality) includes a question about the weight of equipment suspended from the balloon
[13:47] <fsphil> depends on the size of the balloon
[13:47] <fsphil> AetherOli: the helium wants to rise, but the balloon contains it
[13:47] <daveake> So if you/they used that form rather than a previous one, the CAA should have picked up on it
[13:47] <fsphil> some will leak out of the bottom due to the latex squeezing it
[13:48] <AetherOli> I can't say I know the details I'm afraid dave but I'll report back
[13:48] <daveake> Please
[13:49] <daveake> The regulations specify small/medium/large balloons, and 2kg would normally be medium (depends on other factors like density), however the CAA appear to be applying the "large balloon" rules to medium as well as large
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[13:49] <lostcause> fsphil so the air in the bottom of the balloon stops the helium at the top venting out?
[13:50] <daveake> The only example I know of was one of Steve's but that was in the "definitely large" category, and it took him weeks to get approval
[13:50] <lostcause> Or is it just vacuum at the bottom?
[13:50] <fsphil> lostcause: the pressure difference between the inside and outside of the balloon isn't all that high
[13:50] <fsphil> the lift of the helium may be enough to overcome that
[13:50] <fsphil> and keep it in the balloon, even with a hole at the bottom
[13:51] <garymortimer> Its floating above the hole
[13:51] <daey> lostcause: the gas rises. its in the top of the balloon. the higher the balloon ggoes the more the gas expands and the excess will be squeezed out of the hole
[13:51] <fsphil> garymortimer: good way to describe it
[13:51] <lostcause> yes but what is under the helium then?
[13:51] <fsphil> air
[13:51] <garymortimer> stuff
[13:51] <garymortimer> hamsters
[13:51] <daveake> us
[13:51] <fsphil> there will be some mixing at the neck of the balloon
[13:51] <fsphil> heavy payload
[13:51] <fsphil> then us
[13:51] <daveake> hah
[13:51] <AetherOli> haha
[13:51] <fsphil> (by us I mean people in england)
[13:52] <lostcause> I'm staying a bit to the side
[13:52] <daveake> I was kinda aiming for that fsphil :)
[13:52] <fsphil> (which doesn't include me :)
[13:52] <daveake> hah
[13:52] <garymortimer> not me then ;-)
[13:52] Action: fsphil is slow today
[13:52] <daveake> nor me woohoo
[13:52] <daveake> nah you said it better
[13:52] <fsphil> hopefully the batteries are good enough for a long float
[13:52] <lostcause> so the habhub predictor makes assumptions rather than looking at the actual ascent and descent rate it sees?
[13:52] <fsphil> odds are it'll burst before I get home though
[13:53] <AetherOli> So venting from a helium balloon doesn't really work in any configuration?
[13:53] <daey> do satellites have something like a remote ssh/telnet/tty access?
[13:53] <daveake> fsphil if you leave now ...
[13:53] <daveake> ... it'll burst in 5 mins
[13:53] <fsphil> AetherOli: it would be fine venting from the top
[13:53] <AetherOli> How would you vent from the top of the balloon?
[13:54] <daveake> Use a balloon designed for it
[13:54] <daey> or explosions :p
[13:54] <AetherOli> Okay right so it couldn't be done with a typical balloon really
[13:54] <fsphil> I've seen a few ZP (zero pressure) balloons that have a cord hanging from the top, can be used to pull the balloon inside out
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[13:55] <fsphil> but not sure if that would work with latex balloons
[13:55] <lostcause> What if the vent is opened wider more quickly? Would that help?
[13:55] <fsphil> not really
[13:55] <gonzo__> daey, quite a way out question. Unless there is one specific satellite you are looking at
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[13:55] <garymortimer> some hot air airships have bungee cord that closes a hole that is opens up if there is an over pressure situation
[13:55] <garymortimer> not sure how you would do it with a latex balloon
[13:55] <lostcause> daey I expect they can receive (in fact we've all seen the movies) they can receive commands
[13:56] <daey> gonzo__: not really i was just curious in general. and how they ensure that noone takes them over
[13:57] <gonzo__> most satellites are transponders. There will be some commanding uplink and downlink, but it will be proipriatory modems and exnrypted
[13:57] <garymortimer> I think I would favour filling a hanging balloon with air to increase its weight, rather than venting
[13:57] <fsphil> if I where making a very expensive satellite, there'd be a OTP
[13:57] <lostcause> They do take them over (in the movies anyway) They have "Satellite codes"
[13:57] <daey> im not talking about movies :D
[13:57] <lostcause> Movies never lie.
[13:57] <PE2BZ> Movies are hidden reality ;-)
[13:58] <fsphil> -1.1m/s, not going to float. just fall slowly
[13:58] <gonzo__> the cammanding will ne secure and bespoke.
[13:58] <garymortimer> just going to say that only 300 and some change minutes to go
[13:58] <fsphil> hah
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[13:58] <daey> so i take it no satellite was ever hacked?
[13:58] <DL7AD_> hi
[13:58] <DL7AD_> ping Upu
[13:59] <gonzo__> and the uplinks will not have the sort of bandwidth that they can encapsulate ip frames. They will be a few hundred bytes of packet
[13:59] <lostcause> My guess is they wouldn't advertise it if it happened.
[13:59] <garymortimer> If I had to stop and consider such a slow descent I might go here https://whatpub.com/pubs/NOT/472/star-inn-west-leake
[13:59] <daveake> I have a HAB tracker with telnet if you fancy having a go at hacking it :)
[14:00] <fsphil> hacking in the cloud
[14:00] <lostcause> Telnet isn't encrypted so shouldn't be hard...
[14:00] <fsphil> still gotta know the password
[14:00] <garymortimer> I actually would not be able to resist having a pint in Bunny https://goo.gl/maps/bqvVk9XtoXU2
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[14:00] <fsphil> though it's probably raspberry :p
[14:00] <daveake> lol
[14:01] <lostcause> no, you just need to be on the same network.
[14:01] <fsphil> telnet only helps if you can see someone logging in remotely
[14:01] <gonzo__> it would be obvious if a military/comms satellite was damaged by hacking. They cost many millions to launch and far too many people involved. I doube they could cover it up
[14:01] <daveake> You'd need to sniff my upward transmissions
[14:01] <lostcause> I'd rather not to be honest
[14:01] <fsphil> lol
[14:01] <gonzo__> it's not like covering up a breach in an IT dept.
[14:01] <daveake> lol
[14:01] <daey> daveake: yeah that thought intrigued me as well. but then i couldnt come up with a purpose of a bidirectional connection :P what can you do on your tracker via telnet?
[14:01] <lostcause> Although preferable to your downward ones
[14:01] <gonzo__> no thanks dave!
[14:02] <daveake> Whatever you like in telnet
[14:02] <daveake> Edit files, recompile, reboot
[14:02] <lostcause> Seems my tcp-rtl is lagging again
[14:02] <daey> yes. but its a hab tracker... what files are you going to edito, compile etc...
[14:02] <gonzo__> you could quite easilly piarte a satellite though
[14:02] <daveake> I just know that if I check the zeusbot log page anytime soon, it'll have my "recent post" as "You'd need to sniff my upward transmissions"
[14:03] <daveake> daey: Just did it for fun
[14:03] <daey> daveake: the only thing i could come up with is a flying "repeater"
[14:03] <gonzo__> pirat/s e
[14:04] <gonzo__> agh /s pirate
[14:04] <daey> gonzo__: how would you pirate one "quite easily"?
[14:04] <fsphil> arr, surely
[14:04] <gonzo__> have a listen on ..... 252.550MHz, FM
[14:04] <lostcause> https://www.geek.com/geek-pick/chinese-hackers-took-control-of-nasa-satellite-for-11-minutes-1442605/
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[14:05] <gonzo__> you will hear brazillian/portugese pirates using nato uhf follow on sats like CB radio
[14:05] <daveake> daey I've used a 2-way link for a couple of things so far ... mostly so the base station can ask for missing image packets to get resent, but the other (and more fun) one was multiple balloons each repeating each other's telemetrt
[14:06] <daveake> Next flight will have an uplink for controlling the cutdown and a couple of other things
[14:06] <daey> gonzo__: those are just "stupid" repeater satellites arent they?
[14:06] <fsphil> it's not stupid, it's advanced
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[14:07] <gonzo__> yep, why would you fly anything more complex than req. That is just adding failure modes
[14:08] <gonzo__> reading that writeup, the bottom of the text says that they suspect the IT infrastructure used to like ground satations to controlers
[14:08] <gonzo__> that is more feasable. I doubt the 'hack' would have been over air directly to the satellite
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[14:09] <lostcause> How about this one http://www.wired.co.uk/article/satellites-vulnerable-hacking-chatham-house
[14:09] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SQ7ACP-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SQ7ACP-11
[14:10] <daveake> AetherOli: Something to think about for future flights - do an onboard landing prediction which takes into account your expected descent profile. The one on the live map isn't going to be much use as it assumes a parachute profile. (I notice that the chase car is near the current landing prediction)
[14:11] <daveake> So unless you're about to release the baloon, it ain't landing near where the car is
[14:11] <lostcause> wouldn't an onboard one need to know the weather conditions?
[14:11] <fsphil> if only there was a weather balloon just launched in its area :)
[14:12] <daveake> lostcause: Which it measured on the way up
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[14:12] <fsphil> though for something that floats for a while, that's probably not going to work as well
[14:13] <daveake> Granted if the landing is a long way from the launch site, and/or the weather conditions are changing during the flight, it can be less accurate than the habhub one
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[14:13] <lostcause> Yes I'm assuming the habhub one uses current weather data at all locations (as far as it can)
[14:13] <AetherOli> daveake: Thanks. What does a parachute profile assume?
[14:14] <daveake> lostcause: habhub uses predictions based on measurements taken many hours before
[14:14] <lostcause> Would be nice if the habhub predictor could look at the average ascent/descent rate and update the prediction accordingly
[14:14] <daveake> on-board would use current data during ascent
[14:14] <daveake> Either could be better
[14:14] <fsphil> lostcause: pretty sure it does
[14:15] <fsphil> obv. descent rate won't be known until it's descending
[14:15] <daveake> AetherOli: It applies an atmospheric model of air density to the measured descent rate of the parachute
[14:15] <lostcause> sure and I guess in this instant it's likely to speed up
[14:15] <lostcause> instance
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[14:15] <daveake> So it calculates the exepected descent rate from current altitude to 0m
[14:15] <fsphil> 3.8 hours descent if it stays at the current rate
[14:16] <daveake> and uses that plus prediucted wind data to predict the landing spot
[14:16] <fsphil> but yes it'll speed up as it falls
[14:16] <gonzo__> oh the irony of it..... A company/group wide email, warning about scam/phishing emails and the need to take care. And a link to a companby site with the IT rules/guidence. Which you havbe to log in to.. It is legit, but looks just so much like a fake attempt!
[14:16] <AetherOli> daveake: So right now, without these predictions, is there somewhere else we can estimate it will land in order to position the car?
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[14:16] <daveake> not that I know of
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[14:17] <AetherOli> Is it likely to be short or go further than predicted?
[14:17] <daveake> The initial descent will move further horizontally as it's slower vertically (much much slower)
[14:17] <fsphil> assuming steady descent: http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=4f8e67b59bfa68a2f95230fcec3e809125be0245
[14:18] <fsphil> but generally, north east seems a good bet
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[14:18] <AetherOli> Thanks fsphil
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[14:18] <daveake> It helps that all winds are baically going the same way
[14:18] <fsphil> yeah
[14:18] <daveake> So yeah go thataway :)
[14:18] <Upu> ping DL7AD
[14:19] <fsphil> I probably wouldn't make any decisions until it's a bit lower, or starts falling faster
[14:19] <daveake> I had one like this with a Pawan that had a hole in it
[14:19] <daveake> Again, pretty much a straight line
[14:20] <fsphil> shame we can't force the tracker to go into descent mode
[14:20] <daveake> As fsphil says, it's so slow you've got plenty of time to wait and see what happens
[14:20] <fsphil> though I can probably override its burst altitude manually...
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[14:21] <gonzo__> with a long ladder and a pin, phil?
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[14:21] Action: daveake makes killerhab
[14:23] <fsphil> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/Yahua_Blowgun_Amazon_Iquitos_Peru.jpg
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[14:24] <fsphil> set the burst altitude to 10m, and descent rate to 1.5
[14:24] <fsphil> that might do it
[14:24] <gonzo__> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bertha_%28howitzer%29
[14:25] <lostcause> gonzo__ http://codintel8880.weebly.com/uploads/3/1/3/0/31308895/9069431_orig.jpg
[14:25] <mattbrejza> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Gustav
[14:26] <daveake> "returns on command" .... I think that's the last place I'd want it to go :)
[14:27] <adamgreig> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_HARP
[14:29] AetherOli (bc1da48b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.29.164.139) joined #highaltitude.
[14:29] <daveake> "On November 18, 1966 the Yuma gun fired a 400 lb (180 kg) Martlet 2 projectile at 7,000 ft/s (2,100 m/s)[2] sending it briefly into space and setting an altitude record of 180 km (590,000 ft; 110 mi)" WTF
[14:29] <SIbot25> In real units: 7,000 ft = 2134 m
[14:29] <SIbot25> In real units: 400 lbs = 181.4 kg
[14:30] <daveake> wow
[14:30] <daveake> Also "Martlet 2" :)
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[14:31] <adamgreig> I wonder if there's any connection
[14:31] <adamgreig> you'd have to ask iain..
[14:31] <daveake> :D
[14:31] <fsphil> ah ha
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[14:31] <adamgreig> the martlet 2g-1 had a solid motor in the round to propel it to orbit
[14:32] <daey> ICBA :P
[14:32] <garymortimer> Oh that's cool popped out to get some beer and I see UOL is going to see the Red Arrows!
[14:34] <AetherOli> Yup the HabHub's prediction just flung towards the drift descent prediction
[14:34] <fsphil> Andrew_M0NRD: it's heading for you
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[14:35] <fsphil> yeah I tweaked the prediction. it still assumes a 1.5m/s descent, but so far that's spot on
[14:35] <daveake> nice one
[14:35] <daveake> Should be pretty close with the winds as they are, assuming the descent rate doesn't change much
[14:35] <Andrew_M0NRD> Best put my hard hat on! ;-)
[14:36] <daveake> heh yes :/
[14:36] <AetherOli> haha
[14:36] <garymortimer> I missed the discussion earlier, what is the payload ???
[14:36] <AetherOli> cheers fsphil
[14:36] <Andrew_M0NRD> don't think the red arrows are flying today ;-)
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[14:42] <garymortimer> I guess the rate of descent will increase as the sun goes down
[14:43] <garymortimer> Oh but its summer up there so that will take a while
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[14:46] <gonzo__> is it? I thought summer was last week?
[14:46] <AndyEsser> ha
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[15:07] <mattbrejza> screen -x
[15:07] <mattbrejza> er
[15:07] <AndyEsser> mattbrejza: don't worry - noone saw
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[15:33] <garymortimer> Ah Melton Mowbray, had some most splendid times there UoL crew, would have been worth a look just for a pie
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[15:44] <daveake> Yes but is it a Pi above ?
[15:46] <fsphil> still at -1.4m/s
[15:46] <fsphil> thought it'd have speeded up by now
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[15:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SSTAR0138 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SSTAR0138
[15:54] <garymortimer> Well done http://radiogeek.co.uk/ an SDR for me to use from afar
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[15:58] <fsphil> !dial UoiAETHER
[15:58] <SpacenearUS> 03fsphil: Can't find a flight doc matching your query
[15:58] <fsphil> !dial UolAETHER
[15:58] <SpacenearUS> 03fsphil: Latest dials for 03UoLAether2_ver2 10(735e): 03434.488272 MHz, 434.488 MHz, 434.65 MHz, 434.487 MHz, 434.48724 MHz, 434.405722 MHz, 0.006 MHz, 434.4867 MHz, 434.4875 MHz, 434.48708 MHz, 434.48731 MHz, 434.4876 MHz, 434.487325 MHz
[15:59] <fsphil> aaah the sweet sound of rtty
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[16:02] <fsphil> prediction is getting closer to the coast
[16:02] <fsphil> -0.9m/s .. that's not good
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[16:04] <garymortimer> Must be starting to get colder so should get faster? Sea breeze should bring it back in at LL as well
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[16:09] <fsphil> I'm going home in 5 minutes....
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[16:10] <fsphil> it's out of range for me anyway
[16:14] <garymortimer> wowo the radiogeek SDR is amazeballs
[16:14] <daveake> fsphil So that's assuming a landing descent rate of 1.5m/s ?
[16:15] <garymortimer> Much much better than Southampton, I know it's closer but a much cleaner web signal here in South Africa!
[16:15] <daveake> Looking like a wet ending
[16:15] <garymortimer> Fish and chips by the sea side for the recovery crew!
[16:17] <daveake> Yep done that a few times :/
[16:17] <mattbrejza> unless tehre is a cutdown we dont know about
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[16:18] <daveake> Yeah I did ask earlier
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[16:18] <daveake> none mentioned
[16:18] <daveake> Would be a good idea considering the test
[16:18] <G0ATW> Thanks Gary for your comments I've sent them to Lee the owner of Radiogeek
[16:19] <garymortimer> Its great! Very cool for those of us overseas
[16:20] <garymortimer> Is there still an RAF range at Donna Nook?
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[16:23] <garymortimer> Oh dear slowing down in denser air
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[16:25] <G0ATW> Yes still a bombing range at Donna Nook but better known for it's Grey seal colony now
[16:29] <G0ATW> Going home from work now but will leave my tracker running via the SDR 73s all John.
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[16:30] <AetherOli> Hi guys, as you might have seen, it's not looking good for our weather balloon (UolAETHER) :(
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[16:33] <SpeedEvil> Did it find weather?
[16:33] <AetherOli> It's approaching the north sea at Grimsby
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[16:34] <AetherOli> G0ATW: I was wondering whether you were around?
[16:35] <garymortimer> Never say die AetherOli, there must be pubs by the seaside that you can watch it fly past. You never know it might yet burst or be bought back in by sea breeze
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[16:35] <garymortimer> Actually quite a bit more left than the prediction so it might already be working
[16:35] <AetherOli> We are still heading up there and hoping for the best!
[16:36] <garymortimer> Easington here we come!
[16:36] <AetherOli> It's uncomfortable close haha
[16:37] <AetherOli> Anyone know whether the person with the callsign 'Gary Rosetta HQ' is contactable?
[16:37] <garymortimer> I see another old RAF name there, Binbrook, looking at the sat images its sinking back into the countryside
[16:37] <garymortimer> Thats me
[16:37] <AetherOli> oh right, hi gary!
[16:37] <garymortimer> So yes contactable
[16:38] <garymortimer> but...
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[16:38] <garymortimer> I'm actually in South Africa
[16:38] <AetherOli> Okay, any advice about the area etc would be more than welcome when it comes down nonetheless :)
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[16:39] <garymortimer> Ah, I would not have a clue sadly but will watch the map for you as will others
[16:39] <mattbrejza> eg where can you hire boats?
[16:39] <garymortimer> I am listening via a web radio
[16:40] <AetherOli> ah I see
[16:40] <AetherOli> So was G0AT I believe
[16:40] <garymortimer> Its left of prediction and will go left closer to the surface
[16:41] <AetherOli> I really hope so
[16:42] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KD0NMG-11 after 033 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD0NMG-11
[16:42] <garymortimer> Drive here post haste and await news! http://thecomfyduck.co.uk/
[16:44] <garymortimer> Some inlandness on the wind up there at the minute https://on.windy.com/874d
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[16:45] <AetherOli> That gives me some hope haha
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[16:48] <AetherOli> If a balloon out at sea, is it a lost cause?
[16:48] <garymortimer> The left should start happening below 1000m fingers crossed
[16:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SSTAR0150 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SSTAR0150
[16:50] <mattbrejza> because it still has the balloon attached it shouldnt sink at least
[16:50] <mattbrejza> the balloon might even act as a kite
[16:51] <mattbrejza> you should be able to see it too
[16:53] <AetherOli> Is there any way we could get it from the sea?
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[16:53] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
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[16:55] <mfa298> AetherOli: they have been brought in by the tide before, or maybe see if you can find some boat hire
[16:56] <Ron_G8FJG> garymortimer : thecomfyduck looks far too rich for studentgrant ...ask my student ? son .....pot noodle more his style
[16:56] <AetherOli> Okay thanks mfa298
[16:56] <mfa298> otherwise it might be a waiting game to see when and where it washes up
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[17:06] <fsphil> ah, still falling
[17:06] <garymortimer> fingers crossed for a left turn at LL
[17:06] <AetherOli> yup
[17:08] <garymortimer> last time i was Donna Nook Jaguars from Germany and A10s were doing their thing
[17:08] <garymortimer> 30+ years ago
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[17:15] <garymortimer> should turn north at about 2000m
[17:16] <AetherOli> It's taking it's time
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[17:29] <AetherOli> Half an hour or so until touchdown whether it be sea or land
[17:29] <lostcause> This may be useful https://koha-community.org/
[17:30] <lostcause> sorry ignore that
[17:30] <lostcause> wrong URL
[17:30] <lostcause> https://www.yr.no/kart/#lat=52.67204&lon=-6.234&zoom=5&laga=straum&proj=3575
[17:30] <lostcause> that's the one
[17:30] <lostcause> Looks like the currents are favorable at least, should bring it into the wash
[17:31] <AetherOli> Yes that's true thank you :)
[17:32] <lostcause> I studied that a lot when I was fairly sure I'd end up with a balloon in the sea myself
[17:32] <Ron_G8FJG> got "shot up" by a pair of A10's in my TR6 back in the 80's driving to Aldeburgh Suffolk ...scary doesn't get near it !!
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[17:35] <lostcause> There's a big wind farm somewhere out there I think
[17:37] <lostcause> you'll miss it by a long way though
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[17:37] <lostcause> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheringham_Shoal_Offshore_Wind_Farm
[17:37] <lostcause> you're clear of that, hopefully current won't take it that way
[17:38] <AetherOli> only time will tell!
[17:39] <lostcause> did you say you have a GPS tracker? That might actually really help if it makes land and still has power and finds a signal (lot of ifs though)
[17:40] <AetherOli> GPS on arduino (which won't like water), but also a spot tracker which should hopefully still function
[17:40] <lostcause> I think I would head towards Skegness maybe, current should take it south
[17:43] <AetherOli> first going to wait to see if the westerly winds catch it
[17:44] <lostcause> True, you could get lucky, it's still quite high
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[17:49] <fsphil> falling faster though
[17:49] <garymortimer> yes needs to slow down
[17:51] <garymortimer> Its about 20km off shore I reckon?
[17:53] <garymortimer> 900m for next turn
[17:54] <AetherOli> ah well, doesn't look like the wind was enough
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[17:55] <N7SMI> You'll have a combination of surface winds and current to consider. Predictions will be very difficult without knowing if/how the balloon might function as a sail. Good luck!
[17:56] <garymortimer> 21 knots at 600m
[17:57] <PE2BZ> Most weathersondes today took a sharp left turn at about 1000 meter, however wind speed is not that high....
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[18:00] <fsphil> the stations on the coast might be able to track it on the surface, if they're high enough
[18:00] <fsphil> and the payload is waterproof enough :)
[18:00] <fsphil> actually, if the balloon is inflated they'll probably be able to see it
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[18:02] <garymortimer> So nearly
[18:02] <AetherOli_> they are online radio trackers I believe unfortunately
[18:02] <garymortimer> Hooray for the perfectly placed Cleethorpes SDR
[18:03] <garymortimer> Well it would be lost already if not for it
[18:03] <lostcause> it came down so slow that any boats near it would have seen it I guess
[18:04] <lostcause> it'll all come out in the wash...
[18:05] <garymortimer> I see what you did there
[18:05] <garymortimer> Still seeing bursts of data on the SDR
[18:06] <lostcause> are you G0ATW gary?
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[18:07] <lostcause> so come on fsphil, code up a quick current path prediction system for habhub ;)
[18:08] <fsphil> I'll sea what I can do
[18:08] <garymortimer> No, I'm sat in South Africa just lurking on that SDR
[18:08] <lostcause> I'm shore you can do it
[18:08] <garymortimer> Oh dear
[18:08] <fsphil> it'll be a breeze
[18:08] <lostcause> especially with current technology
[18:09] <garymortimer> no no no
[18:09] <fsphil> as easy as surfing the web
[18:10] <lostcause> Give me a wave if you manage it anyway.
[18:14] <PE2BZ> Would that be a shortwave ?
[18:14] <garymortimer> top marks
[18:15] <fsphil> so near, yet sonar
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[18:22] <AetherOli_> Is there a way to save all the log data recorded by habhub during the flight?
[18:22] <lostcause> yep
[18:22] <fsphil> try http://habitat.habhub.org/ept/
[18:23] <AetherOli_> thanks, recommended format?
[18:24] <lostcause> kml to view in google earth
[18:24] <lostcause> csv for all the interesting data
[18:24] <fsphil> depends on your needs
[18:24] <AetherOli_> I'll take all three
[18:24] <fsphil> good idea :)
[18:25] <fsphil> are there contact details on the payload?
[18:25] <lostcause> the CSV gives a JSON parse error in my web browser, but just save it anyway, the file is good.
[18:26] <AetherOli_> Yup fsphil so there's still a little hope
[18:26] <fsphil> hmm, it must be sending the wrong content-type for the csv
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[18:31] <daveake> sea-sv format
[18:32] <daveake> It's like CSV but lots of rows
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[18:33] <fsphil> ah well, I tide my best
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[18:34] <daveake> There's a new version shipping soon
[18:35] <fsphil> hopefully not a pirated copy
[18:35] <daveake> heh
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[18:46] <Ron_G8FJG> I think you need to scale back your puns..on that note ......I'm out of here
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[18:46] <fsphil> that did go a little overboard
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[18:57] <daveake> shore thing
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[19:01] <garymortimer> Is there a forecast for the shipping version?
[19:02] <garymortimer> I assume it's going to be free, wouldn't want to shell out
[19:03] <fsphil> this is drifting off topic
[19:03] <Pablo__> Hello all, this is all new to me... and not totally sure I am in the right place... I have just created a flight document "St Paul's CPS launch". Is this the right place to ask for approval? Flight approval, though social approval, peer approval, parental approval is good too.
[19:03] <fsphil> hehe, you need to go next door to #habhub for flight doc approval
[19:03] <daveake> Have you tested ? i.e. got your payload on the live map ?
[19:04] <garymortimer> I think most of us wonder if we are in the right plaice Pablo
[19:04] <daveake> You're skating on thin ice garymortimer
[19:04] <Pablo__> Hi Dave, I wasn't sure if that would work before approval. I will try it now.
[19:04] <daveake> Yes you don't need approval for payload docs
[19:05] <garymortimer> Sorry, Daveake you are cod around here
[19:05] <daveake> If you've tested the payload doc (getting your payload on the map) then the #habhub admins will be pleased to approve the flight doc
[19:06] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03UBSEDS25 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS25
[19:06] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03STP2 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=STP2
[19:06] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03STP1 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=STP1
[19:07] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DK0WT - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DK0WT
[19:08] <Pablo__> Hi Dave, et al, yes, I am on the map!
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[19:11] <Pablo__> How will I know when flight docs are approved?
[19:11] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SCOOBY - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SCOOBY
[19:11] <Pablo__> Or if?
[19:12] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DK0WT-LoRa - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DK0WT-LoRa
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[19:19] <daveake> Post the flight doc ID in #habhub
[19:19] <daveake> and ask for approval
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[19:19] <daveake> If you come back later you can post the ID again; a channel bot will tell you if it's been approved or not
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[19:36] <pablo__> Hi Dave, I lost the chat before I finished reading what you posted. I got to #habhub and I think it is on the right track. Thanks for all your help.
[19:37] <Ian_> It's approved already.
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[19:51] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03X0 after 039 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=X0
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[21:28] <userscott> Evening Sportsfans
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[21:30] <userscott> Hoping to get some feedback on latest payload design: https://ibb.co/gfBdq5
[21:30] <userscott> Has some bits that aren't essential such as name plaque that will of course be removed before HAB flight
[21:30] <userscott> and design incorporates
[21:31] <userscott> additional polystyrene insulation that isn't shown in the photo hence the box looks huge!
[21:31] <userscott> Total weight including box and back up mobile phone is 640 grams
[21:33] <craag> oo pretty
[21:35] <craag> how are you mounting the 434MHz antenna?
[21:36] <userscott> Hi craag, she sits underneath the box on a frame which holds the lines but also holds the antenna in the optimal position throughout the flight. It adds about 45 grams but looks bitching
[21:37] <userscott> Never done this before so learning as I go and spunking payload weight on things it doesn't need has been a learning curve.
[21:41] <craag> frame looks great.
[21:41] <craag> note that gopros can overheat if too well insulated (especially as the vacuum at altitude is also an insulator)
[21:44] <userscott> https://ibb.co/h0Xwck
[21:44] <userscott> https://ibb.co/jhT8q5
[21:44] <userscott> A few more angles.
[21:47] <daveake> Has the camera view been checked ?
[21:47] <daveake> And yes what model camera ?
[21:48] <daveake> And do you have extra battery power for the camera ?
[21:50] <userscott> Hi Dave, I was listening to a talk from Pete Lomas the other week and your endeavours took up the first half dozen slides!
[21:50] <daveake> heh
[21:51] <userscott> It's a Hero 3+ and provision has been made for extra battery power - but not entirely sure just how much is enough. I was hoping to chuck a LiPo 3300 mAh cell I have in with it...?
[21:51] <daveake> Several options ...
[21:52] <daveake> ... a GoPro backpac battery, which clips on the back of the camera, will give you 3 hours or a tad more, which is enough for most flights including a bit of faffing about prior to launch
[21:52] <daveake> That's the lightest option
[21:52] <userscott> PS the camera view is borderline - I have a matching "Funnel" that is resin 3D printed that slots onto the box (and is bonded in) and mates up to the GoPro.
[21:52] <daveake> Or even a small powerbank will do it - get one and try it
[21:52] <userscott> I shall Google the Backpac battery now - I never thought of that.
[21:53] <daveake> From that pic, it's not even close to borderline, but perhaps it'll be closer to the foam for flight
[21:53] <daveake> Those things have almost 180 degree view, so the lends has to be almost flush with the outside
[21:53] <daveake> lens
[21:54] <userscott> Bugger. The first draft of the box I made it was around 10 mm closer...
[21:54] <daveake> Yeah they're a PITA
[21:54] <daveake> 170 degree view iirc
[21:54] <userscott> I think I better fire up the laser cutter tomorrow..... :/
[21:54] <daveake> :)
[21:55] <userscott> I have mostly been building this by popping on here, getting ideas, then squirreling away for a fortnight or two and then coming back with the progress haha.
[21:55] <daveake> There is an action cam btw with a 90 degree view, (so yay no more stupid concave horizon) so doesn't have to be so close to the outside
[21:55] <daveake> Not flown it yet
[21:55] <userscott> Perhaps you have a view on this - really wanted to launch in Germany - but paperwork seems absolutely of the chain. Are any HAB people on here or even yourself familiar with how in gods name you get permission?
[21:56] <userscott> I found a guide online that was very recent - any my partner - who is German - and her father - also German - have attempted to follow the guide with local airspace people and have been told to take a running jump.
[21:59] <userscott> RE action cam - is this the white one where you flash the firmware to get the nuts image quality out of it - they're 4K right? The Yi Action Camera? I got one a few months ago - you pop the rear plastic cover of and jump a contact on the PCB to get it into Dev mode and there is 3rd party firmware on it that changes everything. Makes a GoPro 5 look like a childrens toy!
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[22:07] <Laurenceb__> !whereis HIRFW-6
[22:07] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb__: 03HIRFW-6 was over 03North Pacific Ocean 10(22.48107,-145.03785) at 0313999 meters about 0334 minutes ago
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[23:42] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RSIST after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RSIST
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[00:00] --- Wed Jun 28 2017