highaltitude.log.20170613

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[05:26] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03usman_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=usman_chase
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[08:46] <russss> doesn't look like this has been posted here yet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cla34QzgbKc
[08:46] <russss> my dad sent it to me, heh
[08:49] <fsphil> that sounds amazing
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[10:51] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BARC3 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BARC3
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[11:33] <PE2BZ> !dial BARC3
[11:33] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Latest dials for 03BARC3 10(7c33): 03433 MHz, 434.3495 MHz
[11:33] <PE2BZ> !flights
[11:33] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Current flights: 03Dixon 219 10(7c33), 03KN4CZZ 10(ef0c)
[11:33] <PE2BZ> !dial 7c33
[11:33] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Latest dials for 03BARC3 10(7c33): 03433 MHz, 434.3495 MHz
[11:37] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RSIST after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RSIST
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[12:03] <Laurenceb__> !whereis HIRFW-6
[12:03] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb__: 03HIRFW-6 was over 03North Pacific Ocean 10(30.48107,172.96215) at 0313999 meters about 035 hours ago
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[12:37] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03YPADSONDE after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YPADSONDE
[12:43] Nick change: BitEvil -> SpeedEvil
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[12:53] <G0ATW> What frequency is BARC3 on please
[12:53] <AndyEsser> !dial BARC3
[12:54] <SpacenearUS> 03AndyEsser: Latest dials for 03BARC3 10(7c33): 03433 MHz, 434.35 MHz, 434.65 MHz, 434.3495 MHz, 434.348697 MHz
[12:57] <G0ATW> Thanks strong signal on 434.35 local SDR radiogeek.co.uk
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[13:30] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SSTAR0145 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SSTAR0145
[13:38] <G0ATW> Looks like BARC3 landed close to the QTH of G4CCH
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[14:40] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KF5KMP-8 after 039 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KF5KMP-8
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[16:03] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SQ7BR-11 after 034 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SQ7BR-11
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[16:28] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PILOT-GR - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PILOT-GR
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[16:36] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03AGH-SPACE - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AGH-SPACE
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[17:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HILCOX - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HILCOX
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[19:09] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP7PPT-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP7PPT-11
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[19:37] <SNBlair> Anybody have any recommendations or advice regarding SMS trackers. I was going to launch without but met a group from Alness Academy today who's bacon was certainly saved by one.
[19:37] <SpeedEvil> They are a terrible idea for a primary tracker.
[19:37] <SpeedEvil> They are not bad as an add-on.
[19:38] <SNBlair> Well done to the Alness Academy group who claimed second prize in our category to reach the regional finals of the Big Bang Competition.
[19:38] <SpeedEvil> few here have reported failure in flight of the primary tracker IIRC
[19:38] <SpeedEvil> :)
[19:40] <SNBlair> That group had an issue with their aerial. They hadn't matched it to their frequency/wavelength of signal. I spotted that in the photos of their setup. They lost contact after 10 seconds of flight but got a GPS location from the SMS tracker just as it landed.
[19:42] <Ian_> I suspect that the problem was more to do with insufficient/patchy testing of their tracker pre-flight.
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[19:46] <SNBlair> Well a test over distance 1km + seems like a must before you send anything skyward. I think if the signal is still 'strong' at that distance then the setup is pretty sound. Hard to get a distance test beyond that without LOS issues though.
[19:46] <Ian_> 1km would be considered to be very good on the ground.
[19:49] <SpeedEvil> Or understanding signal strength measurements from your radio
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[19:52] <Ian_> The Coxon kilometer is with a hab rising, so is more LoSight than a similar 1km range along the ground.
[19:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03STABILOTRON-II - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=STABILOTRON-II
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[20:13] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0314 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
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[20:38] <lostcause> I was thinking of testing my set up by tethering my transmitter to a small party balloon and letting it go up a few hundred feet a mile or two away. Is this something people recommend?
[20:38] <lostcause> So the balloon will stay on a kite string basically
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[20:39] <lostcause> Might get a bit of lateral movement if it's too windy though I suppose.
[20:40] <lostcause> Possibly it will be too heavy to lift as well. It's just an idea in my head at this point, not really thought through ;-)
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> lostcause: that would work quite well
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> lostcause: you don't even need much beyond clear line of sight - certainly not a few hundred feet.
[20:41] <lostcause> Yeah, I don't want to go too high, got to think about power lines too
[20:42] <SpeedEvil> Also, balloons are a problem.
[20:42] <SpeedEvil> If, for example, you have enough lift for it to go 5m/s upwards, when unrestrained, that is about 10mph.
[20:43] <SpeedEvil> In a 30MPH wind, that means that if you let out a string, it will depart at something like a 20 degree angle from the horizon
[20:43] <lostcause> yes the wind is an issue, and I imagine even if it doesn't feel windy on the ground, may be some wind higher up
[20:43] <SpeedEvil> yes
[20:45] <lostcause> The problem around these parts (fenlands) is there are no hills ;)
[20:46] <lostcause> good on the one hand, only need a little height for a long line of sight, but bad because I can't just drive up a nearby hill to test.
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[20:47] <dbrooke> you could maybe put it on a short pole, or ladder or something
[20:48] <lostcause> Yes I was thinking about that too
[20:48] <lostcause> I have quite a good telescopic pole, gets pretty high
[20:49] <SpeedEvil> I have a telescopic pole too. It goes to 11m. (need to complete assembly)
[20:49] <dbrooke> one flight came down on the Wash near Welney and I could almost decode it on the ground but once they picked it up and were walking back to the car I received it fine
[20:49] <lostcause> ooh should I be able to see stabilotron at the moment? is it doing rtty?
[20:50] <dbrooke> that must be a km or 2
[20:50] <SpeedEvil> dbrooke: yeah - in some random cases, it can go a _long_ way
[20:51] <SNBlair> do SMS tracking devices just use normal SIIM cards i.e. from giffgaff etc? Its just that I noticed ebay recommended a giffgaff 'tracking SIM' after I ordered a tracking device. I assume all SIMS are just the same?
[20:51] <dbrooke> SpeedEvil: I'm in the fens not far from lostcause so similar environment
[20:51] <SpeedEvil> yes, normal SIMs
[20:51] <lostcause> I used an ASDA mobile one, was a good deal
[20:52] <Babs> Stabilotron-II on the ground so you won't be able to track it currently
[20:52] <SpeedEvil> Check coverage for the various networks in the target area.
[20:52] <lostcause> oh right, I'm misreading the tracker page, says altitude 30,000m
[20:52] <lostcause> SNBlair, I had two SMS trackers on different networks. Neither of them worked on landing, but that was because I landed near the coast and cell coverage was rubbish
[20:52] <Babs> no, you are reading it right, I am adding 30km to the altitude as I'm testing the rig it is attached to currently
[20:53] <Babs> as in I added 30km in the code, its physically in my back garden hanging on some line
[20:53] <lostcause> Ah, I'm desperate to try and test my setup, looks like maybe tomorrow there's a flight
[20:53] <SpeedEvil> Coverage is much worse often for mobile phones on the ground than at normal outside talky height
[20:55] <lostcause> I did get messages for some of my flight, that reminds me, I should look at the tracker page and see if they plotted it...
[20:56] <dbrooke> you can see who received which sentences at http://habitat.habhub.org/ept/
[20:56] <lostcause> yeah that's useful, I got that data. I'm talking about my sms gps tracker I used as well
[20:57] <lostcause> Just interesting to see how much it actually worked for
[20:57] <daveake> IME the cheap GSM/GPS trackers are barely worth the cost and extra weight
[20:57] <dbrooke> ah sorry, misunderstood which tracker
[20:58] <daveake> Last flight I tried one; it never regained a connection on landing
[20:58] <daveake> Despite being in a tree
[20:58] <daveake> And despite the 3G on my tracker getting a signal
[20:58] <lostcause> Yeah it's strange, actually looking at the data I produced it's quite good, but I thought it would work on landing and that's about the one time it didn't work at all.
[20:58] <daveake> yup
[20:59] <daveake> I think they get confused at altitude
[21:00] <lostcause> Interestingly mine seems to have worked even at 28,000 feet.
[21:00] <SIbot> In real units: 28,000 ft = 8534 m
[21:00] <lostcause> sorry I mean 28,000m
[21:01] <lostcause> what do I mean...actually...
[21:01] Action: lostcause scratches head
[21:01] <Babs> GSM trackers banned in the states on a balloon. Apparently.
[21:01] <lostcause> basically at the point of burst I still seem to have got an SMS signal, that was much higher than I would expect it to have worked.
[21:01] <Babs> I've been genning up on the regs over there
[21:02] <daveake> Wonder why :)
[21:02] <lostcause> Yeah I did a launch in the US and I used a satellite tracker. That only worked after landing oddly, and that was lucky because it landed the right way up
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[21:05] <SNBlair> hmmm...I'll weigh it (in all senses of the word) and make a decision later. It seemed to have helped the boys I talked to today but they got lucky. Not fixing their aerial was a basic error (but easily made when your 14 and don't have a Physics degree)
[21:07] <lostcause> Yeah I got a GSM signal at 19KM high, I'm surprised at that, I thought it didn't work that high.
[21:08] <SpeedEvil> It relies on the tower having misaligned antennas, or nondirectional ones
[21:08] <SNBlair> they made a very good point about launching from tricky locations. They managed to negotiate a month long window where they just phoned in 2 days prior to launch to get final authorisation arranged. This allowed them to just wait for the right weather (and use alot less gas!)
[21:08] <daveake> Yeah, I've had a phone accidentally left on in an aircraft receive "welcome to Germany" texts as we've flown past
[21:08] <lostcause> Yes, btw, what kind of NOTAM windows can be reasonably requested? Are there any guidelines for that?
[21:08] <SNBlair> they being the boys from Alness academy....
[21:09] <daveake> But generally anything 1000' or more above the ground and you're probably going to lose signal
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[21:11] <SNBlair> reading between the lines it seems like its at the discression of the CAA guy. If he knows where the launch is thats the main thing.
[21:11] <lostcause> so although I didn't receive a message, it seems the web site that tracks the signal on my GSM tracker worked for the entire flight beginning to end. I didn't have to even think about it as the radio worked, but would have worked as a backup after all.
[21:12] <lostcause> in hindsight I gave myself too small a window, I think it's OK to specify an entire weekend probably?
[21:13] <lostcause> I gave myself a 2 hour window. They then kindly gave me the same 2 hour window for each day of 2 weeks starting on the day I requested. They still wanted 48 hours notice during working hours though of the launch
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[21:14] <lostcause> it got to Friday, and I thought I may not be able to do Saturday, but I wasn't sure, but I also knew I couldn't change my mind to Sunday without 48 hours notice...
[21:14] <lostcause> so I e-mailed them again and they said I could have both Sat and Sun without notice
[21:14] <lostcause> So as you say, it seems pretty flexible
[21:14] <daveake> That's permission for 2 hours each day, then a notam when you say you want to fly, I think
[21:15] <daveake> They don't like issuing long-period notams as those are obstacles to aircraft
[21:16] <daveake> Generally I ask for the shortest period I think I need, and only for the day(s) I need
[21:17] <lostcause> But restricting myself to a 2 hour period was a bit tense (the weather was changing a lot) turned out I picked one of the best 2 hours in the entire weekend, the weather was terrible before and after it
[21:18] <lostcause> On the other hand, having a small window adds to the excitement and organisational skills needed :)
[21:18] <daveake> :)
[21:19] <daveake> I had one where I couldn't get a notam before 8pm due to a nearby air show, and needed to launch by 10 past so it'd burst in sunlight
[21:19] <lostcause> Just noticed tomorrows flight is in Virginia, so not likely I'll be able to test my antenna for that :/
[21:19] <daveake> The eclipse one was pretty tight on time also
[21:19] <lostcause> oh nice, is there a video?
[21:20] <daveake> nah didn't have (unlike Mr Stabilotron) a stabilised camera
[21:20] <lostcause> Oh very nice, what is stabilising that a gyroscope?
[21:21] <daveake> Ask babs when he's on next
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[21:21] <Mike-SA6BSS> yes, a verry advance homemade one
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[21:22] <lostcause> That sounds amazing. Will be very interesting to see the results. When's the launch?
[21:23] <Mike-SA6BSS> next solar eclipse?
[21:23] <daveake> I imagine, 1.5 hours before the eclipse :)
[21:25] <lostcause> wow, are you taking it to the USA then?
[21:26] <Mike-SA6BSS> belive Babs said he was worried about it in the customs, so probably :)
[21:26] <lostcause> Worth getting over to the west side maybe to ensure reasonable weather
[21:26] <lostcause> Salem :)
[21:27] <Ian_> That of course is becoming more complex as time goes by. It might need a bit of pre-planning to avoid disappointment at Security . . . ?
[21:27] <lostcause> What's the problem with customs? Which element is the concern?
[21:27] <dbrooke> this is Babs' project https://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/albums/72157636929911016
[21:28] <Mike-SA6BSS> like cables everywhere sticking out
[21:28] <lostcause> ah, it'll be fine, they see all kinds of stuff. Wow that project is outstanding.
[21:28] <Ian_> I imagine that collections of circuit boards and wires, with batteries may increasingly make uninformed people nervous.
[21:29] <Ian_> or is that uninformed uniformed people?
[21:29] <Mike-SA6BSS> :)
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[23:17] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03YPADSONDE after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YPADSONDE
[23:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03home_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=home_chase
[23:47] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RSIST after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RSIST
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[00:00] --- Wed Jun 14 2017