highaltitude.log.20170612

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[01:04] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KF5KMP-8 after 0310 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KF5KMP-8
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[04:27] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 036027839067_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=6027839067_chase
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[04:45] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 036 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
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[09:08] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP5RZP-11 after 0311 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP5RZP-11
[09:29] <AndyEsser> ping Upu
[09:31] <Upu> Hi
[09:32] <AndyEsser> How's your stock of MTX2bs and the GPS on the breakout board?
[09:32] <AndyEsser> :)
[09:34] <Upu> Nil mtx2 but due this week
[09:34] <Upu> Which breakout?
[09:34] <AndyEsser> MAX-M8C Pico Breakout with Chip Antenna
[09:39] <Upu> checking
[09:40] <AndyEsser> thanks
[09:40] <Upu> as long as you don't need more 15 we are good :)
[09:40] <AndyEsser> I don't suppose you stock the MRX (assuming that's the name)... receiver modules?
[09:40] <Upu> Estimated Despatch 19/06/2017 for MTX2
[09:41] <Upu> nope sorry
[09:41] <Upu> from Radiometrix to us
[09:41] <AndyEsser> have any of the older NTX2b?
[09:41] <Upu> Yep loads
[09:41] <AndyEsser> they'll do the trick :)
[09:42] <AndyEsser> ok, shall probably place an order later today, thansk
[09:42] <Upu> cool no probs (before 3 if you want it shipping today)
[09:42] <lostcause> what's the web site for that?
[09:42] <Upu> https://store.uputronics.com
[09:42] <AndyEsser> Upu: will do it at lunchtime I suspect
[09:43] <AndyEsser> Upu: suggestions on best place to buy the receiver modules?
[09:43] <Upu> Harry loves it when orders come in at 15.59
[09:43] <AndyEsser> :)
[09:43] <Upu> Radiometrix directly I suspect
[09:43] <lostcause> thanks
[09:43] <Upu> no probs lostcause
[09:44] <AndyEsser> Upu: if I want the freq setting, do I just put it in the notes of the order?
[09:45] <Upu> Yeah but pick something we have like .325 .200 .175
[09:45] <AndyEsser> lol, not 433.92? :P
[09:45] <Upu> or I'll have to get the programmer out :)
[09:45] <Upu> no :)
[09:46] <AndyEsser> fine!
[09:46] <AndyEsser> :P
[09:47] <AndyEsser> the only 433 Receiver Farnell have which supports FM is hard coded to 433.92 :(
[09:47] <AndyEsser> and are £36 each...
[09:47] <AndyEsser> whut
[09:47] <gonzo_> those will prob be wide FM too?
[09:47] <AndyEsser> £8 for an AM one
[09:47] <AndyEsser> :P
[09:47] <AndyEsser> I'm not using AM...
[09:47] <gonzo_> using for commanding?]
[09:48] <Vaizki> are you actually using FM either?
[09:49] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: nope, it'll be 2FSK
[09:49] <AndyEsser> fine... I'll use AM :P
[09:49] <gonzo_> 433.92 may not be a problem, as it should quieten down in the air (those RX modules are deaf) and I assume you will be hitting it with a lot of uplink power (even 10W into a yagi is big, cmpared to ISM
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[09:56] <lostcause> am I right in thinking that LoRa isn't available to use in the UK on an unlicensed part of the radio spectrum? ie. my only options as a non radio ham is to use rtty?
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[09:59] <craag> That's incorrect lostcause
[09:59] <lostcause> Oh, I wonder where I got that idea from....so really I should be using that in my habduino next time?
[09:59] <daey> out of curiousity. who needs to own the license that is required for equipment attached to a balloon?
[09:59] <craag> There are parts of the license-exempt specttrum that limit bandwidth however
[10:00] <craag> and others that allow massive bandwidth (the wider lora modes) but at low duty cycles (eg 1%)
[10:00] <craag> IR2030 is the document you want to look at
[10:00] <lostcause> Ah so are you saying the benefits of LoRa only really come if used in the licensed spectrum?
[10:00] <gonzo_> in the UK, we cannot use any ham tx kit on an airborne vehicle
[10:00] <daey> i.e. is someone without a license allowed to start a balloon for someone who ownes a licence?
[10:00] <craag> We cannot use the ham radio licensed spectrum in the UK lostcause
[10:01] <craag> for balloons
[10:01] <craag> as airborne operation isn't permitted
[10:01] <gonzo_> so everything airborne must be in certain licence exempt.
[10:01] <lostcause> OK so, is there any point in having a LoRa chip on my habduino on the balloon?
[10:01] <craag> yes
[10:01] <craag> you can still use several of the modes, you just have to be careful to pick the right ones
[10:02] <daey> and ones it leaves uk you can turn the other ones on
[10:02] <lostcause> Right...so I should get one of those I guess and add it on to my habduino. I misunderstood that aspect thinking that it wasn't useable at all in the UK
[10:03] <fsphil> just ham radio isn't useable at all
[10:03] <fsphil> in the UK
[10:03] <gonzo_> the confusion between ham and exempt is, that the 434MHz exempt allocation is right in the maddle of a ham band. So we can use ham rx equipment, but to receive an exempt transmitter
[10:03] <lostcause> Maybe I'm getting confused actually, what is APRS then? Is that nothing to do with LoRa?
[10:04] <fsphil> APRS is a packet format and network
[10:04] <gonzo_> correct. APRS is AFSK on 144MHz ham allocation
[10:04] <lostcause> it's APRS there's no point my getting in the UK isn't it?
[10:04] <fsphil> you could technically use APRS over lora, but don't. just don't :)
[10:04] <gonzo_> erm, rephrase that question?
[10:04] <lostcause> is LoRa just a protocol I can use already with my 434 radio module?
[10:05] <fsphil> APRS is just a protocol
[10:05] <fsphil> lora is a radio data mode
[10:05] <lostcause> OK so it's upu's fault I'm confused :p
[10:05] <Upu> haha
[10:05] <Upu> ok Habduino has MTX2 on it which can do RTTY only
[10:05] <lostcause> right, and I'd need APRS to do LoRa?
[10:05] <lostcause> But I can't use that in the UK right?
[10:06] <Upu> to do Lora (which isn't supported on Habduino) you need a different module
[10:06] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: dropped you a dm
[10:06] <fsphil> APRS is just a protocol, you can use it anywhere you want. but don't, it's awful
[10:06] <lostcause> Gotcha, so it's a habduino limitation rather than a radio spectrum issue
[10:06] <Upu> APRS is an option for Habduino which does APRS format messages but not legal to use htis under a balloon in the UK
[10:06] <fsphil> APRS is just 99% used on the ham bands
[10:06] <daey> fsphil: why is it awful?
[10:06] <Upu> So if you're using a Habduino its very simple : RTTY
[10:06] <fsphil> really badly designed daey
[10:07] <daey> fsphil: what dont you like about it?
[10:07] <Upu> So if you're using a Habduino in the UK its very simple : RTTY
[10:07] <lostcause> OK fair enough, I like the habduino, powers for ages, nice and light, and I presume I can add my own code for additional sensors etc. worked well in my last mission
[10:07] <Upu> you can as long as you check whatever you add doesn't interfere with the interrupts
[10:08] <Upu> and there is enough RAM left
[10:08] <lostcause> I just realised I got my habduino from you upu, thought your site looked familiar :)
[10:08] <Upu> Well I'm the only person who sells them so yes :)
[10:08] <fsphil> daey: it's not so much a standard, more a series of hacks built on hacks
[10:09] <fsphil> with workarounds to stop previous hacks from breaking
[10:09] <lostcause> So upu do you sell something with LoRa for habs?
[10:10] <Upu> Yes the Pi In The Sky can do RTTY, LoRa and APRS all at the same time
[10:11] <lostcause> What's needed to decode LoRa, I take it dl-fldigi doesn't do that?
[10:12] <Vaizki> short answer - a LoRa radio
[10:12] <lostcause> Oh right, so not an SDR?
[10:12] <Vaizki> (it's not an open standard although there is a decoding software effort)
[10:12] <fsphil> correct, there's no (fully functional) software decoder yet
[10:13] <fsphil> actually I might be fibbing, I haven't seen the latest software
[10:14] <lostcause> I'll stick with RTTY for now, still enough to get my head around as it is. I'll catch up to LoRa later.
[10:14] <Vaizki> I guess easiest is still to get a raspi and upu lora board on top? for reception as well...
[10:15] <fsphil> one thing I like about rtty is the visualisation on dl-fldigi can tell you a lot about what's going on even if it isn't decoding
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[10:15] <Upu> Yes
[10:16] <Upu> You could in theory hack lora on to Habduino
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[10:17] <lostcause> I like the idea of being able to send an instruction back out to the balloon, opens up a lot of possibilities. Can one do that with a couple of raspis and lora boards? How does the transmission work in terms of power needed / antennas etc?
[10:22] <Upu> I theory yes this is possible
[10:22] <Upu> speak with daveake
[10:22] <Upu> :)
[10:25] <fsphil> it's a little harder to send data up, since the radio in the air will be hearing a lot more background noise than the one on the ground
[10:25] <fsphil> but certainly possible
[10:25] <mattbrejza> we've had no problems with uplink with only 10mW
[10:26] <lostcause> cool, watching daveake's talk on it at the moment on youtube (I presume it's him)
[10:27] <lostcause> I must say I always prefer open source choices though, we need an Open LoRa
[10:27] <fsphil> would be nice
[10:28] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CHIAPAS_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CHIAPAS_chase
[10:28] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KAN_BALAM_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KAN_BALAM_chase
[10:42] <Mike-SA6BSS> BSS6 came down yesterday after more then 22 days in the air, highest alt 10800m and made it around the globe, single Qualatex
[10:42] <Mike-SA6BSS> map: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1zhLX5u9eCh0dr6peDec231RHjH8&ll=47.82705991122313%2C13.720703125&z=4
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[10:47] <lostcause> Mike-SA6BSS that's very cool, what do you put on that to track it?
[10:47] <Mike-SA6BSS> wspr and jt9
[10:48] <Mike-SA6BSS> on 14Mhz
[10:49] <lostcause> Nice, I must try that one day too...do qualitex picos work better than foil generally?
[10:49] <Mike-SA6BSS> thats about the only avalibel "large" balloon avalibe, not mouch to shoose fromn
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[11:18] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03YPADSONDE after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YPADSONDE
[11:36] <Vaizki> whee.. seems like also we Finland get a new government now
[11:38] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RSIST after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RSIST
[11:38] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: are they as batsh*t bonkers as ours?
[11:42] <Vaizki> yes, the difference between our bonkers candidates and yours (such as Lord Buckethead) is that a) yours are funny b) ours get elected
[11:42] <gonzo_> wait till we get boris for pm
[11:43] Action: mfa298 wonders how long until that comes true
[11:44] <Vaizki> but I guess politics should not be trashed out here.. was just a slight digress on my part
[11:45] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD8PPJ-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD8PPJ-11
[11:46] <gonzo_> as long as it's amusing
[11:46] <gonzo_> if it were a serious conversation, that may be different (and not sure it can be taken seriously at all these days!)
[11:47] <mfa298> we need the moster raving loony party to win some seats, that might help bring some sanity to things
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[11:52] <daveake> Have a read of buckethead's manifesto ... less bonkers than at least one mainstream party'ds
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[12:02] <fsphil> he's moving on now, https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCHVHDWXkAA2lcx.jpg
[12:07] Nick change: danielsaul_alt -> danielsaul
[12:09] <kokey> he should join forces with Vermin Supreme
[12:29] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03LA2K17 after 0317 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=LA2K17
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[13:03] <SNBlair> Do I need to contact the locl council if I am launching from a public park?
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[13:14] <gonzo_> if you did, the answer from them would probably be, no
[13:16] <Ian_> My say, No ball games or keep dogs on a lead. So much easier to say sorry than invite a negative reaction in the first place. The French philosophy, everything is permitted unless explicitly disallowed.
[13:16] <gonzo_> that's not advice on whetjer you should ask, just a prediction of what they would say if you did
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[13:17] <gonzo_> no is the default answer for everything. As saying yes, usually required someone to do some work
[13:17] <craag> We've had a couple of school launches who had positive responses from the council for using parks
[13:18] <craag> even though one mentioned that the council had to file a new risk assessment for it
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[13:19] <gonzo_> the alternative to saying no to avoid work, is to involve other depts, to make work to justify existance
[13:20] <SNBlair> its just that the CAA document asks for a contact for the launch location.
[13:20] <craag> you are that contact
[13:20] <craag> however you should also have the landowners permission
[13:20] <gonzo_> thoat would be youyr teanm's mobile number
[13:21] <SNBlair> my contact details are given at the top of the form. My interpretation was that the 'site' contact meant landowner, in this case the council.
[13:22] <gonzo_> that would be the contact of the person at the launch site
[13:23] <craag> at the top you have the contact details for the person applying for the permission, the 'site contact' is someone that they can get in touch with, on the day, at the launch. (which may not be the same in a large team)
[13:23] <gonzo_> I am assuming that is the numbet thy will put on the notam, for pilots to call who want info on whether you are launching
[13:24] <SNBlair> managed a test over 1km with a nice clean signal. It helps that I live at the top of a steep valley and have a clear line of sight across to the local primary school.
[13:24] <gonzo_> that is not a bad test then
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[13:25] <gonzo_> is the launch being done on behalf of the school?
[13:26] <SNBlair> Still nervous......launch is this Sunday at 10am in Leicester. How can I maximise the chance of folks tuning in? I have already made a flight doc.
[13:26] <craag> Send an email to the mailing list with timing and frequency details
[13:26] <mfa298> nigelp: approved flight doc ( which will get it on the calendar) and a mail to the mailing list are the standard
[13:27] <SNBlair> what mailing list?
[13:27] <gonzo_> also, popping up in this channel before the launch to give some updates of the progress, helps
[13:27] <SNBlair> will do
[13:27] Action: mfa298 should check whats he typed before pressing enter - sorry nigelp
[13:28] <craag> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/ukhas SNBlair
[13:28] <mfa298> contacting local amateur radio clubs may also bring in new listeners and/or scar you for life
[13:29] <mfa298> although talking to local clubs probably wants thinking about a month (or more) in advance
[13:29] <craag> yep, one of our local clubs has a secretary who checks her email exactly once a month :P
[13:30] <gonzo_> mainly the people with the gound statiuons set up and feeding habhub, and interested, are on this IRC channel and watching the mail reflector
[13:32] <gonzo_> once the hab has been in the air for a while, the news gets around. But to get people sat at their stations, and listening for it as it launches, you need to keep this chan updated
[13:37] <mfa298> if you've got spare bodies it can be good with tasking someone to keep an eye on irc and provide updates, and maybe also do social media updates if you have that sort of thing
[13:45] <Ian_> Preferably someone with hard facts or supporting updates rather than a disconnected guesser with opinions - it happens occasionally :)
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[14:16] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KF5KMP-8 after 038 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KF5KMP-8
[14:22] <daveake> re mailing list ... "Longitude = -1.101784299999963". Now that's what I call specific :)
[14:23] <russss> looks like floating point error at the end there
[14:26] <gonzo_> to the nearest 0.1nm
[14:26] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: 0.1 nautical miles isn't that accurate :P
[14:26] <gonzo_> hehe
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[14:27] <gonzo_> (wall 0.073 actually
[14:27] <gonzo_> well
[14:28] <gonzo_> why didn't sibot get you for that?
[14:28] <AndyEsser> 5NM
[14:28] <AndyEsser> because it doesn't know NM I'm guessing :P
[14:28] <gonzo_> I can't fathom that
[14:29] <Laurenceb__> !whereis HIRFW-6
[14:29] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb__: 03HIRFW-6 was over 03North Pacific Ocean 10(29.48107,164.96215) at 0313999 meters about 037 hours ago
[14:29] <AndyEsser> I see what you did there gonzo_
[14:29] <gonzo_> I'm just metering out the puns
[14:29] <gonzo_> and seeing if I can get a reponse from sibot
[14:30] <gonzo_> inching towards a response
[14:30] <gonzo_> think this pun has been done too many times here
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[14:34] <PE2BZ> !flights
[14:34] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Current flights: 03SQ5AM-11 - RS41 436.666 MHz, RTTY 150/450 7N1 10(d2aa)
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[14:38] <Ian_> I guess that all the fun is in the pun-tuation: 434.250.8 Hz Full marks for the abreviation, less so for the precise UOM perhaps :)
[14:40] <Ian_> Don't tell me, it was just a "display String"! Just as well everyone scales internally when reading the detail, at more than on level.
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[16:33] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KN4CZZ - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KN4CZZ
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[17:04] <spencer> Anyone online?
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[17:08] <spencer> Hi
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[17:09] <spencer> Hello
[17:14] <Ian_> Ahoy!
[17:15] <PE2BZ> Howdy !
[17:15] <Ian_> Doody
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[17:29] <PE2BZ> Ian_ you should not scare spencer ;-)
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[17:31] <Ian_> I think he may have advanced to expecting the answer to the question he was thinking about, before actually asking it.
[17:33] <Ian_> I'm not scary at all . . .
[17:33] <Ian_> Boo!
[17:33] Action: PE2BZ has quit. Being scared by Ian_
[17:34] <Ian_> Ha ha. Obviously like pussycats
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[17:35] <PE2BZ> I don´t like Tom Jones....
[17:36] <Ian_> Hmmm. You are probably not alone in that.
[17:36] <PE2BZ> That´s a Michael Jackson song....
[17:37] Action: PE2BZ has to start getting serious
[17:37] <Ian_> Is this a puns by oblique reference session. I'm not really up on pop culture, past or present. Strangely enough.
[17:38] <Ian_> gonzo is one of the pun masters. He takes pun ishment to a whole new level.
[17:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KF5PGW-14 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KF5PGW-14
[17:39] <PE2BZ> Ian_ https://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwitxOXF7LjUAhULZFAKHUHkBbwQyCkIKzAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DpAyKJAtDNCw&usg=AFQjCNGBkk4-cXHdDR1e1zJo1vODlKZzIQ&sig2=-GlfexGfLWMEZxl37qZPZw
[17:40] <PE2BZ> In the Dutch language we have some words which start with pun however they don´t translate nicely over here :-(
[17:40] <Ian_> MJ was a very good singer, but at a human level I thought he was probably wanting
[17:41] <Ian_> I love so many classical pieces, then when it comes to playing them, the shine wears off a little. 2nd violin!
[17:46] <PE2BZ> I usually skip the classical pieces. I like the Phantom of the opera however :-)
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[17:57] <Vaizki> the skip is a good place for them
[18:00] <Ian_> :) How else would you advertise everything from Tanks to Tampax without pieces of classical music . . .?
[18:01] <Vaizki> Abba
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[19:39] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03VE2WMG-11 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VE2WMG-11
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[19:59] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0313 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
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[21:45] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KF7ZFJ-2 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KF7ZFJ-2
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[22:13] <michal_f> .
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[23:20] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03YPADSONDE after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YPADSONDE
[23:38] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RSIST after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RSIST
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[00:00] --- Tue Jun 13 2017