highaltitude.log.20170602

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[00:56] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KF5KMP-8 after 037 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KF5KMP-8
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[06:03] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03u3s10 after 038 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=u3s10
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[07:36] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HB9IAC-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HB9IAC-11
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[08:10] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03ILHAB_L1 after 039 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ILHAB_L1
[08:13] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03ILHAB-1d after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ILHAB-1d
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[09:42] <gurlavie__> Guys, urgent help. When I measure necklift. I do it without ! The payload ! Right ? So if my payload is 1600gr, and burst calculator show 2400. I need the balloon to raise 2400 without the payload ?
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[09:44] <fsphil> necklift if the lift of the balloon without anything attached
[09:44] <michal_f> correct
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[09:44] <zyp> it's the lifting force the balloon applies to its neck
[09:46] <fsphil> the balloon should hover with an equivilent weight hanging off it
[09:47] <fsphil> 2400g seems pretty high for the neck lift
[09:47] <fsphil> maybe I'm just too used to small payloads
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[10:09] <daveake> 1.3kg payload / 5m/s would do that
[10:10] <daveake> The one I'm working on is just under a kilo; it's like old times :p
[10:10] <daveake> (Ed will be along in a minute with tails of 10kg payloads)
[10:11] <daveake> tales
[10:11] <fsphil> babs' robotic thing looks like it should be nice and heavy
[10:12] <daveake> yep
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[10:18] <BARC> Hi all, we've recently had a new batch of Hwoyee balloons delivered - they're performing admirably but they are bringing a lot of latex back down with them. On the one hand this is great because we are disposing of more latex, however we are concerned about the balloon remnants getting tangled in the parachute and preventing it from opening fully. Does anyone have any pre-existing solutions they can recommend for this problem?
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[10:23] <craag> The engineering answer is to use a cutdown.
[10:24] <craag> cut the balloon away ideally before, or some do precisely at, burst.
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[10:24] <craag> There was a discussion about the latter method on the mailing list not long ago.
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[10:26] <BARC> Would there not be some concern there about dropping a balloon without a parachute? Even if it lands safely there's no recovery of the latex
[10:27] <gonzo_> carrg, et all, once descending, I assume the balloon shards will be streaming behind (above) the chute. Is the tangle issue immediatly on burst?
[10:27] <gonzo_> craag
[10:27] <craag> the tangle tends to be as it freefalls and drag isn't in play yet is my understanding
[10:28] <daveake> Yeah you;ve got the parachute limiting the payload descent rate, vs the latex doing its own thing which may be faster or slower
[10:28] <daveake> only needs to be slightly faster for a potential "stratodangle" :)
[10:29] <daveake> On one of Steve's videos the balloon remnants were flying alongside the payload camera for a while
[10:30] <craag> BARC: The latex is biodegradable I believe, so not generally worried about.
[10:30] <craag> Don't quote me on that - check it.
[10:31] <BARC> Surely the balloon remnants descend faster than the parachute once it has begun to 'open'? My understanding of latex was that it was banana skin sort of degradable - a good few years
[10:32] <daveake> Not necessarily, no
[10:32] <daveake> It can act as a streamer and stay above the chute
[10:33] <daveake> Even had one where it made its own parachute
[10:35] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
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[10:40] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 034z7GUL_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=4z7GUL_chase
[10:40] <daveake> As it happens I'm making a couple of cutdown boards at the mo; was slightly surprised to find a total of 35 power mosfets in the tray
[10:41] <daveake> No idea what I was thinking when I ordered that many :)
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[10:42] <BARC> Thanks for the advice all!
[10:46] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ILHAB_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ILHAB_chase
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[11:02] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK5QI-9_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VK5QI-9_chase
[11:06] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BSS6 after 0314 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BSS6
[11:17] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03YPADSONDE after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YPADSONDE
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[11:41] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HB9HFJ-11 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HB9HFJ-11
[11:45] <gurlavie__> Thanks !
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[12:10] <PE2BZ> !flights
[12:10] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Current flights: 03HAPROS 10(8f44), 03URJC 10(e207), 03UBSEDS22 434.637.5 CONTESTIA 16/1000 10(ae52)
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[12:24] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03W1FN-13 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W1FN-13
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[12:28] <pb0ahx> !payload e207
[12:28] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Payload 03URJC 10(e207) 03$$URJC - 03PIE with sensors 600 baud - 03434.25 MHz USB 03RTTY 300/600Hz ASCII-8 none 2
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[13:11] <costyn> hello everyone. I have a radio question, not related to HAB any way, but lots of people with radio knowledge here (some of you might remember me from 4 years ago when I launched a couple HABs in the Netherlands). So Im working on a sort of art project where a group of 5-10 people will wear a pendant with a LED on it, controlled by a microcontroller. But Id like for the LED patterns to be able to sync up, so here is where the radio part comes in. Iâ
[13:11] <costyn> need each unit in the group, when they come in range in the room (<100 meters) to agree/coordinate their time so they can flash simultaneously. BlueTooth doesnt seem useful as it requires a designated master and only can have 7 slaves. Ive looked at LoRa, but is perhaps overkill for what I need. I guess I can homebrew something myself too. Suggestions?
[13:12] <adamgreig> you want a sort of distributed peer-to-peer clock alignment system?
[13:13] <adamgreig> there are a surprising number of fun edge cases but I guess they don't matter too much to blink leds
[13:13] <adamgreig> any radio you want will be quick enough to do the job, lora would be fine, cheaper rfm69 style things would work too
[13:13] <adamgreig> the usual sort of basic idea is you transmit a message say every second, but every time you hear someone else transmit, you move your transmission either a little earlier or a little later, so that they're closer together
[13:14] <adamgreig> over time they'll all sync up
[13:14] <adamgreig> if you flash the led every radio transmission then they'll sync quite slowly; if you do like ten or a hundred radio transmissions per LED flash then the leds will quickly be in sync
[13:14] <adamgreig> it's the same sort of thing fireflies do, I'm told
[13:15] <costyn> adamgreig: something like that yea! But if after a while theyd be all sending at the same moment, and during sending I guess you cant receive (your own signal would drown out the rest)
[13:15] <adamgreig> yea but that's ok
[13:15] <adamgreig> if you don't hear anyone else you just keep transmitting every second exactly
[13:15] <adamgreig> either you're perfectly in sync or you are not near anyone else
[13:15] <costyn> thats true
[13:15] <adamgreig> if you drift far enough out of sync that you can hear them again, you'll sync up to them again
[13:15] <costyn> Clever :)
[13:16] <adamgreig> if you want to be cleverer about it, you can add intentional jitter to everyone's clocks so you do almost always hear each other
[13:16] <costyn> years ago rfm22b was hot but what I gather its not popular any more :)
[13:16] <adamgreig> but no reason to bother with that for this I think
[13:16] <costyn> mmm right ok
[13:16] <adamgreig> I think the 22b was always bad
[13:16] <adamgreig> rfm69 is cheap and cheerful for this sort of thing
[13:16] <adamgreig> rfm98 or whatever can do lora which maybe would give you longer range?
[13:16] <adamgreig> but much of a muchness
[13:17] <costyn> rfm69 looks cool yea
[13:17] <costyn> I dont really need much range. Like 100m; itll be used at music festivals so there wont be line of sight with bodies in bewteen :)
[13:18] <costyn> I guess I can incorporate the antenna into the necklace of the pendant
[13:18] <adamgreig> you'll still have an easier time of it if you did just have one master node that everyone could hear, e.g. installed higher up, and it transmitted your regular clock
[13:18] <adamgreig> then you could also control what the patterns were from a central system, in addition to making them sync up
[13:18] <costyn> True
[13:19] <costyn> but I dont want to have to install something somewhere. And Id prefer it if they still kept in sync even if the person wearing the master left the area.
[13:20] <adamgreig> fair enough
[13:21] <costyn> do you need a ground plane for a 915MHz antenna?
[13:22] <costyn> Im looking at a multitude of different antenna designs on google images
[13:22] <costyn> not sure what the actual requirements are
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[13:22] <costyn> helical antenna looks nice and compact
[13:22] <adamgreig> maybe you could do a dipole leading out around the necklace
[13:23] <adamgreig> though perhaps that wouldn't be ideal right up against a body
[13:23] <costyn> mmm ok
[13:23] <adamgreig> might be easiest to just use a chip antenna or a pcb inverted planar f or something
[13:24] <costyn> wow chip antennas are tiny!
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[13:25] <costyn> pcb antenna would be an option too. Id be making a custom PCB for it anyways
[13:26] <costyn> adamgreig: but thanks, the rfm69 looks like what I need
[13:27] <costyn> Ill probably be back with more questions when I progress with the project. :)
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[14:56] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03WMSIHAB after 0320 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WMSIHAB
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[16:24] <Adrian_URJC> Hi
[16:24] <Adrian_URJC> yesterday i ask you how to receive ssdv images from the raspberry
[16:25] <Adrian_URJC> the problem was that my camera was broken
[16:25] <Adrian_URJC> now, i have a new camera
[16:26] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Glad you found the problem is it all working now ?
[16:26] <Adrian_URJC> No
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[16:27] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Ah yes I see your on the server
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[16:27] <Adrian_URJC> The camera lights but i dont still receive images
[16:27] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> There appearing on the server OK ? http://ssdv.habhub.org/
[16:28] <Adrian_URJC> yes, these photos were tacked before
[16:28] <Adrian_URJC> but now it doesnt work
[16:29] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> you mean its failed again ?
[16:29] <Adrian_URJC> yes
[16:29] <Adrian_URJC> i dont know why
[16:29] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Ugh, any obvious reason ?
[16:30] <Adrian_URJC> No, now the camera is well connected and working fine
[16:30] <Adrian_URJC> and before we received some images
[16:30] <Adrian_URJC> now we cant...
[16:33] <PE2BZ> Adrian you have access to the Pi now to test if the camera works ? Power to the Pi is not to high so that it breaks the camera ?
[16:34] <PE2BZ> Just guessing...
[16:35] <Adrian_URJC> Yes, i am going to connect the Pi right now
[16:41] <PE2BZ> What powers the Pi ?
[16:44] <Adrian_URJC> A laptop
[16:46] <PE2BZ> from the USB port I suppose ?
[16:46] <Adrian_URJC> yes
[16:46] <PE2BZ> That should not fry a camera.
[16:46] <mfa298_> a laptop USB port might not supply enough current to run a Pi and the Pi CAM (I've Had issues with just some bare Pi's on some USB ports)
[16:46] <PE2BZ> Does the camera work on the Pi itself ?
[16:47] <mfa298_> which Pi model are you testing with ?
[16:47] <Adrian_URJC> I think
[16:47] <Adrian_URJC> Pi Zero
[16:48] <mfa298_> Zero on it's own might be OK from a laptop USB port, but it's possible there's not enough to run the camera as well. It might be worth trying with a 1-2A PSU
[16:49] Nick change: mfa298_ -> mfa298
[16:51] <Adrian_URJC> i power the Pi with a battery , and it doesnt still work
[16:51] <Adrian_URJC> there is a continuous red ligth
[16:52] <Adrian_URJC> on the camera
[16:52] <Adrian_URJC> but i only receive continous telemetry messages
[16:59] <PE2BZ> If you stop de software can you grab an image from the camera manually ?
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[17:06] <Adrian_URJC> i will try
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[17:32] Nick change: hosler_ -> hosler
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[17:43] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03zs362ac_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=zs362ac_chase
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[17:53] <Adrian_URJC> hi again
[17:54] <Adrian_URJC> i can now receive ssdv packages
[17:54] <Adrian_URJC> on dl-fldigi i can see the images
[17:54] <Adrian_URJC> how can i see the photos using LoRa?
[17:57] <PE2BZ> Good news :-) dl-fldigi receives the RTTY images. You can see the images in the folder where fldigi saves them ?
[17:58] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> They appear in the directory speciied in the config.
[17:58] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> actually its lora-gateway\ssdv
[17:59] <PE2BZ> We need to find out if he transmits RTTY only
[17:59] <PE2BZ> then the lora gateway will not receive ssdv will it ?
[17:59] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> tracker=G8DHE-rpi1
[17:59] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> EnableHabitat=Y
[17:59] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> EnableSSDV=Y
[17:59] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> JPGFolder=ssdv
[18:00] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Yes the directory is specified in the gateway.txt file as above!
[18:00] <Adrian_URJC> i can receive, ssdv images with LoRa
[18:00] <Adrian_URJC> but i cant see them
[18:00] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> You view the files manually using a suitable viewer
[18:01] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> but only if your sending them in LoRa mode obviously
[18:03] <PE2BZ> on ssdv.habhub.org there are images from URJC are the lora or rtty ?
[18:04] <Adrian_URJC> lora
[18:04] <Adrian_URJC> the folder ssdv is empty
[18:05] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> have you been sending them in LoRa mode ?
[18:05] <PE2BZ> lora-gateway/ssdv ?
[18:05] <Adrian_URJC> yes
[18:06] <Adrian_URJC> how can i know if i have been sending in LoRa mode
[18:06] <Adrian_URJC> ?
[18:06] <daveake> The lora gateway stores images in the specified folder (see gateway.txt)
[18:06] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> and what did you see on the screen, it says if it sees a SSDV image, picture number and packet etc.
[18:06] <daveake> assuming you installed SSDV
[18:07] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> Do you have a LoRa transmit module on the tracker as well as on the Gateway ?
[18:07] <Adrian_URJC> yes
[18:08] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> I'll leave daveake to tell you the config file setup!
[18:08] <Adrian_URJC> on gateway.txt => JPGFolder=ssdv
[18:10] <Adrian_URJC> but this folder is empty
[18:10] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> have you enabled SSDV as well ?
[18:10] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> EnableSSDV=Y
[18:10] <daveake> install is enough
[18:11] <daveake> The enablessdv is for uploads
[18:11] <Adrian_URJC> yes
[18:11] <daveake> is the gateway window saying it sees image packets ?
[18:13] <fsphil> guessing this is yours: https://ssdv.habhub.org/CHANGE
[18:14] <Adrian_URJC> yes
[18:14] <daveake> login to the Pi, type in "ssdv" and hit enter. Tell us what you get
[18:14] <daveake> (gateway Pi)
[18:15] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> You seem to be sending images currently, are they being recieved in dl-fldig ?
[18:17] <Adrian_URJC> no, in LoRa
[18:17] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> so its working then ?
[18:18] <Adrian_URJC> yes, but i cant see the images
[18:18] <PE2BZ> You are NOT running fldigi RX at the moment ?
[18:18] <Adrian_URJC> No
[18:19] <PE2BZ> You have 2 pi´s ?
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[18:19] <Adrian_URJC> No, i have only 1 Pi Zero
[18:20] <Adrian_URJC> and i am using LoRa right now to decode
[18:20] <PE2BZ> rewind.... One Pi ? with one or two lora modules ?
[18:21] <Adrian_URJC> 1
[18:21] <daveake> So that's the transmitter ... what (for lora) is the receiver ?
[18:23] <Adrian_URJC> i am using like Lora receiver a raspberry Pi 3 with a Lora module added
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[18:23] <daveake> So when you were asked if you had to pis ...
[18:23] <daveake> ... and you said no ....
[18:23] <daveake> ... that was less than entirely accurate ?
[18:23] <daveake> two pis ^^
[18:24] <Adrian_URJC> ok ok, one Pi receiving and other Pi transmitting
[18:24] <daveake> So, back to my question earlier ... please go to the receiving Pi, type in "ssdv" and hit enter. Tell us what it says
[18:25] <Adrian_URJC> where do i have to type ssdv
[18:25] <Adrian_URJC> ?
[18:25] <daveake> terminal window
[18:25] <daveake> ssh or keyboard/mouse
[18:26] <Adrian_URJC> pi@LoRaGateway:~ $ ssdv -bash: ssdv: command not found
[18:26] <daveake> OK so now install ssdv please
[18:26] <daveake> You said you had when I asked earlier
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[18:28] <Adrian_URJC> sudo apt-get install ssdv ??
[18:28] <daveake> No. See the readme for the lora gateway
[18:29] <daveake> https://github.com/PiInTheSky/lora-gateway
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[18:32] <Adrian_URJC> ok, installed
[18:32] <daveake> Great, it should now start creating jpgs ... no need to restart or anything
[18:33] <PE2BZ> let there be jpg´s :-)
[18:33] <fsphil> wonder what the odds of getting ssdv into the debian repos is
[18:33] <fsphil> it's a pretty niche app
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[18:38] <Adrian_URJC> the folder ssdv on lora-gateway is still empty
[18:38] <Adrian_URJC> :(
[18:40] <daveake> type that ssdv command again
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[18:41] <Adrian_URJC> No mode specified.
[18:41] <daveake> OK stop the gateway and type it in that window
[18:42] <Adrian_URJC> the same: No mode specified.
[18:42] <daveake> restart the gateway
[18:43] <Adrian_URJC> now?
[18:43] <daveake> And you said earlier I think, but let's confirm, that you gateway.txt has ...
[18:43] <daveake> JPGFolder=ssdv
[18:44] <Adrian_URJC> yes, i am sure
[18:44] <Adrian_URJC> JPGFolder=ssdv
[18:51] <Adrian_URJC> the icon of the ssdv folder on lora-gateway has a padlock
[18:52] <Adrian_URJC> i dont know if it is ok
[18:55] <PE2BZ> But you can open it and see that it´s empty ?
[18:55] <Adrian_URJC> yes
[18:56] <Ian_> type "ls -ld ssdv" without the quotes and report back here
[18:56] <PE2BZ> On the PI3, running the gateway, does it show ¨receiving image packet nr. and so on ?
[18:57] <hosler> chmod it to 777 and move on
[18:57] <Ian_> Walnut & Hammer
[18:57] <Ian_> tsk, tsk
[18:58] <hosler> it's a pi
[18:58] <hosler> not production level server
[18:58] <Ian_> :)
[18:58] <Adrian_URJC> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 May 18 13:02 ssdv
[18:59] <Ian_> Alas, I've come across Windows types that don't make the discrimination.
[19:00] <Adrian_URJC> how do i use chmod?
[19:00] <hosler> chmod 777 ssdv
[19:01] <murb> hosler: that is a bit wide. chmod 0755 probably safer
[19:01] <murb> otherwise anyone can modify/replace it.
[19:01] <PE2BZ> just run sudo ./tracker and it will write in that folder
[19:01] <hosler> i mean if you really care about security we can do this the right way and figure out what user needs to write to that folder
[19:02] <Adrian_URJC> done
[19:02] <Adrian_URJC> sudo chmod 0755 ssdv
[19:05] <Adrian_URJC> OK
[19:06] <hosler> ok!
[19:06] <Adrian_URJC> now the images are saved
[19:06] <hosler> sweet put them on imgur so we can confirm
[19:06] <Adrian_URJC> what is imgur?
[19:07] <hosler> ah nevermind. sorry not helping here. ill setp out
[19:07] <Adrian_URJC> ok xD
[19:07] <Adrian_URJC> thank you so much
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[19:42] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03WO9N-7 after 0321 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WO9N-7
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[19:52] <tony_> hello does anyoen have any experience of using dl-fldigi with a pi-in-the-sky board?
[19:54] <tony_> I can see characters coming in but they are gibberish - I was successfully decoding (across a desk) but now it will not decode
[19:57] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03LA2K17 after 035 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=LA2K17
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[20:32] <SteveN_> Hi all - I have my first HAB Launch on 6 June where is the best place to "announce" the launch to inform as many people as possible to help tracking, is it here?
[20:33] <cm13g09> SteveN_: both here and the mailing list is probably your best bet
[20:33] <cm13g09> I think there's a calendar as well somewhere
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[21:01] <Geoff-G8DHE-Lap> It goes on the calendar when the Flight doc is approved
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[23:29] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03W1FN-13 after 037 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W1FN-13
[23:32] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03YPADSONDE after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YPADSONDE
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[00:00] --- Sat Jun 3 2017