highaltitude.log.20170526

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[01:35] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BSS6 after 0313 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BSS6
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[06:13] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-3 after 038 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-3
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[06:26] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP5RZP-11 after 0315 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP5RZP-11
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[06:46] <Micke-sa6bss> hirf3 at a verry low altitude, down to just over 9000m
[06:59] <Micke-sa6bss> and lower...
[07:00] <Micke-sa6bss> is it the longest flying at the moment?
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[07:31] <gurlavie__> good morning.
[07:32] <gurlavie__> I have two floaters APRS only planned to launch. named: ILHAB-2 and ILHAB-3, my call sign - 4Z7GUL
[07:32] <gurlavie__> I think they where "forwarded"in the past to the tracker, but they are transmitting now, and I can't see them.
[07:35] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ILHAB-2 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ILHAB-2
[07:36] <gurlavie__> Thanks !!
[07:37] <Micke-sa6bss> good timing :)
[07:38] <gurlavie__> hehe :) so it was already in ? I think ILHAB-3 is a new one, it might not be setup for forwarding :(
[07:41] <craag> gurlavie__: Yeah -3 isn't in the list, you'll need to ask the kind folks in #habhub to add it for you
[07:42] <gurlavie__> Great ! thanks !
[07:43] <craag> (you can see the list by sending '.aprs list' in #habhub)
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[08:06] <Reb-SM0ULC> morrn
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[08:29] <Jordan_> Good morning!
[08:33] <Jordan_> I am aiming to help out the HAB community by setting up an automated permanent listening station! I can tune into flight manually but I wondered if theres any sort of documentation to get me started
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[08:50] <gonzo_> craag and the soton guys have one that may be a template
[08:50] <gonzo_> there are a few remote radio packages out there...
[08:55] <craag> Hi Jordan_, so I run http://websdr.suws.org.uk/
[08:56] <craag> which is a websdr with always-on receivers that you can tune into the HABs with
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[08:56] <craag> THe hard bit to automate is the dl-fldigi step
[08:56] <craag> as it requires setting the right rtty parameters, and tuning within the audio spectrum to the signal
[08:57] <craag> websdr allows people to pipe the audio to their own machine and do that themselves
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[08:59] <Reb-SM0ULC> Jordan_: make a websdr, probably the "best" solution
[09:00] <Reb-SM0ULC> Jordan_: with http://sdr.hu/openwebrx for exmple
[09:03] <gonzo_> is there any automation for LoRA ?
[09:03] <gonzo_> as it should be easy enough to drop a pi on a spare rx port at a remote site
[09:03] <Jordan_> okay thanks craag I'll look into this
[09:03] <gonzo_> (pjm has one that will go up on a local-ish hillside at some stage)
[09:05] <craag> gonzo_: Yes, fsphil and dave have designed a 'calling channel' which allows total automation of that.
[09:05] <gonzo_> does that use a nice wide mode, to get around the freq error issues?
[09:05] <craag> There's normally one at the websdr site, but one of richard's bpsk gateways is plugged into that port
[09:05] <craag> yes
[09:05] <gonzo_> ok, nice
[09:06] <daveake> Also gonzo the gateway checks the frequency error on the calling packet and applies that when retuning
[09:06] <gonzo_> good thinking
[09:06] <gonzo_> when will a new version be avail?
[09:07] <daveake> new version of ...?
[09:07] <gonzo_> gateway
[09:07] <daveake> It's done it for a year or so
[09:08] <daveake> Rob has made some mods recent;y which I need to get round to looking over, and those include mode-cycling that knows about the calling frequency. So if you switch to another mode for another flight, then switch to calling mode, it resets back to the calling frequency
[09:15] <gonzo_> is the calling set up in config, or hard coded?
[09:16] <daveake> At the mo you just set to the calling frequency and mode (3 iirc); make sure AFC is on; job jobbed
[09:16] <daveake> Not sure if Rob hard-coded the calling frequency or had that as a config variable
[09:16] <daveake> Calling frequency is 433.650 (not the 433 not 434)
[09:17] <dbrooke> mode 5 (according to the docs)
[09:18] <daveake> ta :)
[09:18] <dbrooke> there's also CallingTimeout if you want to tweak it
[09:19] <daveake> Why I chose that frequency - https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/Bvs3I90e/RSSI_Over_Frequency.PNG
[09:19] <gonzo_> so just set the freq and mode, and it shoudl reset these to the actual payload when I gets an instrcution on the calling frreq?
[09:19] <daveake> yup
[09:20] <daveake> and if it then hears nothing for a while (e.g. flight landed) it'll reset back to the original calling mode and frequency. ready for the next flight
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[09:20] <daveake> That graph came from my RSSI test flight
[09:20] <dbrooke> where 'while' = CallingTimeout seconds 8-)
[09:20] <gonzo_> that is frequency_1 and mode_1? Not somne special calling freq params?
[09:20] <daveake> yeah those
[09:21] <gonzo_> wonder what those sigs are below 433.6 ???
[09:22] <gonzo_> There's bugger all AR activity on the band
[09:22] <gonzo_> opk
[09:22] <gonzo_> ok
[09:22] <daveake> Also, in case anyone is interested, RSSI increasese slightly with altitude (so # of extra transmitters seen outweighs further distance)
[09:22] <daveake> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/cLF0DOtp/RSSI_vs_Altitude.PNG
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[09:23] <gonzo_> though that will only affect uplink
[09:23] <daveake> Yup
[09:23] <daveake> Well I was thinking more of uplink when I did this
[09:23] <Darkside> poor guys stuck on ISM bands :-(
[09:23] Action: Darkside just uses 431.650 MHz
[09:23] <dbrooke> screendump of calling mode operating: http://album.dbrooke.me.uk/2017-04-27_PILORA/tn/2017-04-27-102706_634x1174_scrot.png.html
[09:24] <gonzo_> we did try and get AR airborn permissions in thae last licence revioew. but no luck
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[09:24] <Darkside> mm
[09:24] <Darkside> you wouldnt be able to do the stuff we did last weekend
[09:24] <Darkside> flying a crossband repeater
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[09:25] <Darkside> i doubt youd find any clear frequencies
[09:25] <gonzo_> poss as part of a special research licence
[09:25] <gonzo_> but prob only in primary bands
[09:25] <craag> the problem with airborne is that it's CAA, not ofcom
[09:26] <craag> but we don't have any existing relationship with CAA
[09:27] <gonzo_> it should only be CAA terratory when it's aboard aircraft, wrt to airband and nav kit
[09:27] <gonzo_> outside of that it should be ofcom
[09:27] <gonzo_> should.......
[09:28] <craag> unofficially, ofcom said they likely wouldn't have a problem with it for primary bands
[09:28] <gonzo_> not sure why the defer to CAA for all airborne. Suppose it comes from an assumption that anything in the air is a plane
[09:28] <craag> but that their opinion is that it's not their call
[09:29] <russss> well, anything in the air is the CAA's responsibility
[09:30] <gonzo_> I wonder how official the CAA control is?Or if this is just a creeping power that no-one could ever be bothered to question
[09:30] <dbrooke> parts of 70cm have geographical restristions and the whole band is secondary so the chance of airborne permission is negligible
[09:31] <russss> gonzo_: I understand they have delegated powers from Ofcom. It's still ultimately ofcom's responsibility but they can delegate it to whoever they like
[09:31] <gonzo_> would only ever expect airborne ops to be permitted in primary bands anyway
[09:31] <dbrooke> yeah, my comment was aimed somewhat at Darkside who may not have been aware
[09:32] <russss> but their delegated powers are mostly to do with aeronautical radio licenses
[09:32] <russss> I was under the impression that the reason airborne amateur radio wasn't allowed was because of the risk of interference outside the UK
[09:32] <gonzo_> dbrooke, he was over here playiong HAB for a few years, so he's well in the picture
[09:33] <dbrooke> fair enough
[09:33] <gonzo_> hmmm, no such thing as tropo or spE
[09:33] <dbrooke> though I was down there (VK3YDA) for a while and can't remember the allocation status 8-)
[09:39] <pjm> gonzo_, i will get the receiver up at BH soon, i could even put my dual band lora stuff up there if that would be of use
[09:39] Action: Darkside is VK5QI
[09:41] <gonzo_> do we have any antennas for 868 paul?
[09:41] <pjm> i got an old cellular colinear somewhere
[09:41] <pjm> from a boat
[09:43] <gonzo_> worth sweeping
[09:44] <gonzo_> though will the pattern be ok that far out of band?
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[10:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CALLSIGN123_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CALLSIGN123_chase
[10:21] <Darkside> good ol' CALLSIGN123
[10:21] <Darkside> always ready to chase balloons
[10:23] <fsphil> what a guy
[10:28] <gonzo_> he gets about a lot
[10:29] <daveake> roaming chaser
[10:30] <daveake> Ideal retirement hobby for a HABber
[10:38] <fsphil> sounds like an 80s tv show. The Chaser
[10:38] <fsphil> wander shows up, helps with hab launches
[10:42] <gonzo_> walked off into sunset, roll credits
[10:43] <daveake> "No signal too weak; no tree to tall"
[10:43] <daveake> +o
[10:47] <gonzo_> David Carradine walks up beech, off shoreham on sea, and has flashback to his chinese master
[10:48] <gonzo_> and uses his teachings to direct you to a really good fish and chip shop
[10:49] <daveake> hah :)
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[11:19] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03YPADSONDE after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YPADSONDE
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[11:49] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03car_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=car_chase
[11:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 039285500067_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=9285500067_chase
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[13:30] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KK6PNN-5 after 0314 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KK6PNN-5
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[13:48] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03POSIUK1 after 0316 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=POSIUK1
[13:50] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03WMSIHAB after 0318 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WMSIHAB
[13:51] <tweetBot> @daveake: Make your own Lightweight Pi Tracker with SSDV - https://t.co/jrzI7FoNJE #ukhas https://t.co/vQm8oZCaaT
[13:59] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VE3KLX-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VE3KLX-11
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[14:06] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VE3KLX - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VE3KLX
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[14:25] <lost_cause> Has anyone tried waterproofing a habduino? Or just a payload in general? Any experience/advice (other than don't do it) for a sea landing?
[14:33] <PE2BZ> On my job we use watelec (in dutch) which protects complete 12 kW motors from moist and have running electril tools under water. I assume in the UK you can find something like that. https://www.flitetest.com/articles/waterproofing-electronics
[14:33] <daveake> You could try a conformal coating
[14:34] <daveake> Or wrap in plastic bag and try to make the payload box waterproof
[14:34] <daveake> So leave a tiny hole near the to though... airtight payload boxes can implode
[14:36] <gonzo_> if you can arrange for the payload to have it's weight at the top and the GP antenna at the bottom, hopefully it will float, antenna up
[14:37] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03S-24 after 036 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=S-24
[14:37] <gonzo_> +1 on conformal coating
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[14:39] <lost_cause> ok thanks all good advice.
[14:40] <lost_cause> so I could simply spray the whole arduino and shielf with conformal coating spray?
[14:41] <lost_cause> sheild that should say
[14:41] <gonzo_> pretty much
[14:41] <lost_cause> I wonder if I have time...that said I'm thinking of delaying 24 hours
[14:41] <edmoore> conformal coating is good for moisture and stuff, if you really want waterproofing then put it in a waterproof enclosure
[14:41] <daveake> My bouy payload has the radio aerial at the top
[14:41] <gonzo_> mask off any connectors you may need to make off after spraying. eg batt conns
[14:41] <lost_cause> yeah I'd probably do both
[14:41] <daveake> Buoy
[14:41] <edmoore> any old project box from farnell or RS that says it's IP67 or better
[14:42] <gonzo_> the lighter the better, it will float highher.
[14:43] <gonzo_> you will get little signal if the antenna is in the water at all
[14:43] <lost_cause> I do have an ip55 dribox somewhere around, maybe that'll help too
[14:44] <gonzo_> I've been keeping some polystyrene boxes, that some big stepper motors came in. They looks ideal for payloads
[14:45] <lost_cause> I have packing material that is denser than polystyrene, kind of foamy, don't know if that will expand or not.
[14:45] <lost_cause> Not necessarily going to use it though, just have a lot of it.
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[15:31] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KG5TIV-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KG5TIV-11
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[15:37] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BSS6 after 038 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BSS6
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[15:52] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping?
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[16:39] <lost_cause> hi on dl-fldigi is there a keyboard shortcut to change the shift width in rtty on the fly?
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[16:42] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BARC1 after 033 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BARC1
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[16:46] <Micke-sa6bss> right click ont rtty in the lower left corner
[16:46] <Micke-sa6bss> lost_cause: lost_cause:
[16:47] <lost_cause> let me see,,,
[16:47] <lost_cause> yeah sure, what I meant was, it would make sense if you could use the mouse wheel or something just to make the lines go wider or narrower
[16:48] <Micke-sa6bss> ok, no shortcut I know of
[16:48] <lost_cause> like shift-mousewheel does squelch
[16:49] <Ian_> Traditionally rtty shifts were a few standard values, with narrower shifts becoming popular as tx/rx stability became improved. It influenced the design of the parent fldigi I would guess.
[16:50] <Ian_> That may not help you, but it does explain the thinking somewhat.
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[16:53] <lost_cause> yep, I come to this with no previous radio knowledge at all, there's a lot of terms, options and stuff I have no clue about.
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[16:55] <lost_cause> My programming mind makes me thing that having something auto detect the shift would seem relatively straight forward...I mean just looking at the waterfall, you could locate and determine the shift programatically I would have said.
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[16:56] <lost_cause> kind of like an AI tuner ;-)
[16:57] <lost_cause> Effectively an auto scan/tune type thing really. It must exist.
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[17:06] <Micke-sa6bss> there was some work don by an VK amature, even implemented bit flipping to get the "red" to verify correct
[17:06] <Micke-sa6bss> darkside might know who that was, believe he is sleeping now
[17:09] <Micke-sa6bss> lost_cause: founf it http://www.rowetel.com/?p=4629
[17:09] <lost_cause> nice...taking a look...
[17:11] <daveake> mattbrejza's Android "HAB Modern and Tracker" does just that ... it'll automatically find both frequencies and start decoding.
[17:13] <lost_cause> that looks awesome....that android thing sounds interesting too
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[17:14] <lost_cause> what do you plug into your android, an airspy? do you use a phone or tablet?
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[17:15] <daveake> Takes audio input. Works on phone or tablet.
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[17:22] <Ian_> The techniques are quite different from those used in 'terminal units' for HF back in the early seventies,when dual slideback detection and all sorts of techniques to mitigate singe tone fading etc. whilst using surplus PO 88mH torroidial loading coils as the basis for mark and space tuning filters. About the time the ubiquitous (then) LM709c op amp arrived on the market. Pre LM741
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[17:25] <Ian_> I'm quite fortunate as I came up that way with a professional interest in rtty, having moved to programming later, so HAB knitted together a lot of what I knew and then gave me a lot more to think about. I have to sympathise with the steep learning curve presented to non-radio, just programming newcomers. It's surely wonderful stuff.
[17:25] <lost_cause> That was just another language. Can anyone help me answer another question, based on two screenshots:-
[17:26] <lost_cause> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rcvj3p95fi2t142/AADU6fWDfiUbmHHU0M87pko_a?dl=0
[17:26] <lost_cause> Screenshot one appears to be a stronger signal but gives me garbage
[17:26] <lost_cause> screenshot two looks like a weak reflection or something and that actually decodes
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[17:29] <PE2BZ> I think the transmitter and the receiver antenna are close. Can you lower the gain for the dongle ?
[17:29] <lost_cause> yes I'm sure they are too close, I'm sure that's the problem.
[17:30] <PE2BZ> disconnect the receiving antenna
[17:30] <lost_cause> it's probably because I now have my home made antenna on the habduino
[17:31] <lost_cause> currently the antenna, habduino and the gps receiver are inside a building, inside a freezer!
[17:31] <lost_cause> all seem to work nicely though
[17:31] <PE2BZ> You would have more then enough signal on this distance. The weaker is indeed a ghost image
[17:31] <PE2BZ> Nice !
[17:32] <lost_cause> currently at -6 and falling (how cold is a freezer normally?)
[17:32] <PE2BZ> 3 * = -18
[17:32] <PE2BZ> 2 * = -12
[17:32] <PE2BZ> and 1 * you might be able to guess ;-)
[17:34] <lost_cause> -9 and falling...
[17:36] <lost_cause> let me see how many stars I have...
[17:39] <lost_cause> seems to have stabalized at -10, so I guess I have 1 star.
[17:41] <lost_cause> no wait...-11, will it make it to 2 stars, the tension is fantastic
[17:42] <PE2BZ> If the tension gets to high you know where you could cool your head ;-)
[17:46] <lost_cause> -13, I'm 2 stars!
[17:46] <lost_cause> I nearly froze up with the suspense
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[18:21] <NSP> hello. I would like to send a flight document for approval
[18:21] <lost_cause> -17
[18:21] <lost_cause> NSP paste the code into the #habhub channel
[18:21] <lost_cause> the checksum code thing you get when the flight doc is completed
[18:21] <NSP> 797eaa7667a0410573acef485416caf3
[18:22] <lost_cause> yeah that one, put it in the #habhub irc channel (/join #habhub)
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[18:28] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LA2K17 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=LA2K17
[18:33] <PE2BZ> lost_cause that´s a reel fridge ;-)
[18:33] <PE2BZ> Perhaps it even has a quick frost button with wich you can lower the temperature to -24
[18:34] <lost_cause> taking a look....
[18:36] <lost_cause> no quick frost, but I have turned it up to max...
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[18:38] <lost_cause> -18, we are at 3*
[18:39] <lost_cause> so when I take it out....won't it get a bit of condensation?
[18:40] <PE2BZ> I guess it will. Do you have 2 temp sensors ? an ¨on board¨ and an ¨outdoor¨ or only one ?
[18:41] <lost_cause> only one
[18:42] <lost_cause> it's whatever is on the habduino
[18:42] <PE2BZ> Have it defrost gently ;-)
[18:42] <PE2BZ> I am afk for tonight . Decided if you fly tomorrow ?
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[18:42] <lost_cause> Pretty sure I won't
[18:42] <lost_cause> But I'm hoping for a miracle
[18:43] <PE2BZ> For the predictor or the hardware :-)
[18:43] <lost_cause> got my NOTAM extended for the same window 24 hours later so I can make the decision right up to the moment of launch
[18:43] <PE2BZ> I´m around to catch your signals for the whole weekend. But afk for now. Bye !
[18:43] <lost_cause> but predictions show straight out into a shipping lane if I launch tomorrow, and on the beach if I launch on Sunday
[18:43] <lost_cause> ok thanks
[18:44] <lost_cause> miracle for the weather
[18:44] <PE2BZ> Go for the beach ;-)
[18:44] <PE2BZ> Use sun oil
[18:44] <PE2BZ> Bue
[18:44] <lost_cause> :)
[18:44] <PE2BZ> Bye
[18:44] <lost_cause> bye
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[18:47] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03chatoui6mahfoud@gmail.com_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=chatoui6mahfoud%40gmail.com_chase
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[19:23] <cairin> Hi there. Anyone use alternative/supplementary methods to GPS for determining altitude?
[19:25] <SpeedEvil> Barometric works somewhat
[19:25] <Micke-sa6bss> pressure sensors, but the tend to lose aaccuracy at high altitude
[19:25] <SpeedEvil> linearity and range is a big issue though
[19:26] <SpeedEvil> Plus, altitude is not the same as height over ground, which can be an issue
[19:26] <SpeedEvil> GPS altitude is just fine, in good signal.
[19:28] <cairin> And any trade secret to ensuring good signal?
[19:29] <Micke-sa6bss> keeping the gps antenna out of the box with all electronics
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[19:31] Nick change: Matthias -> matthias
[19:31] <cairin> Cool thanks :)
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[19:42] <SpeedEvil> 'good signal' is hard not to achieve unless you've got a bad GPS, and the antenna is pointed up.
[19:42] <SpeedEvil> At least throughout most of the flight.
[19:42] <SpeedEvil> you want a GPS that will not freak out when it gets too high, some do
[19:42] <SpeedEvil> And cut off at 60000ft, or other altitudes
[19:42] <SIbot> In real units: 60000 ft = 18.3 km
[19:43] <SpeedEvil> 1SJU
[19:43] <SpeedEvil> fail.
[19:43] <SpeedEvil> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28531767
[19:43] <SpeedEvil> The Standard Joint Unit.
[19:44] <SpeedEvil> CONCLUSION:
[19:44] <SpeedEvil> Consistent 9-THC-content in joints lead to a SJU of 7mg of 9-THC, the integer number closest to the median values shared by both cannabis types. Independently if marijuana or hashish, 1 SJU = 1 joint = 0.25 g of cannabis = 7 mg of 9-THC.
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[19:53] Nick change: matthias -> Matthias
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[21:53] <lostcause> .
[21:54] <Reb-SM0ULC> :)
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[21:54] <Reb-SM0ULC> lostcause: get a real irc-client? :)
[21:55] <lostcause> Just trying to sort out my IRC mess, got various clients on ZNC bouncers, mobile phone etc.
[21:56] <lostcause> I think I have it sorted just about, I confused myself to be honest
[21:56] <Reb-SM0ULC> aah
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[22:25] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03TG5ALY _chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=TG5ALY%20_chase
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[22:53] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
[23:01] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRF-6 after 038 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRF-6
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[23:15] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BSS6 after 038 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BSS6
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[23:19] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03YPADSONDE after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YPADSONDE
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[23:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03STRANGEPI - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=STRANGEPI
[00:00] --- Sat May 27 2017