highaltitude.log.20170522

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[00:58] <hosler> is there a dl-fldigi alternative for uploading telemetry to habhub?
[00:59] <adamgreig> depends what part you want an alternative to
[00:59] <adamgreig> there's no other software that will input audio, demodulate RTTY, and upload the resulting string to habhub
[00:59] <adamgreig> uploading data to habhub has a relatively simple API and there are libraries too, but turning audio into telemetry strings is somewhat harder
[01:00] <hosler> i can do the demodulating wtih regular fldigi
[01:00] <hosler> ok i suppose i can python it up
[01:01] <hosler> just parse the string and hit up the api
[01:01] <adamgreig> I don't think there's any off the shelf software to go from fldigi to habhub
[01:01] <adamgreig> but yea
[01:01] <adamgreig> http://habitat.readthedocs.io/en/latest/habitat/habitat/habitat/habitat.views.payload_telemetry.html#habitat.views.payload_telemetry.add_listener_update
[01:01] <adamgreig> that's probably the best thing
[01:01] <adamgreig> the base URL is http://habitat.habhub.org
[01:01] <adamgreig> then do a PUT as in that doc
[01:02] <hosler> running into this bug is why im asking about alternatives https://github.com/ukhas/dl-fldigi/issues/34
[01:02] <adamgreig> ideally we'd find some way to fix the bug i think
[01:02] <adamgreig> bit of a pain to not have dl-fldigi for modern ubuntu
[01:02] <hosler> someone was suggesting docker package, which sounds nice
[01:02] <adamgreig> especially if you have fldigi working then it really stands to reason dl-fldigi should be able to work too
[01:03] <hosler> i might even setup lcx container with debian
[01:03] <adamgreig> though I think there are builds tha twork
[01:03] <adamgreig> https://github.com/hexameron/dl-fldigi
[01:03] <adamgreig> there are a lot of commits on top of ukhas/habitat on the network
[01:04] <adamgreig> https://github.com/jamescoxon/dl-fldigi is 927 commits ahead lol
[01:09] <hosler> might as well try them out
[01:16] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03veronica saenz_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=veronica%20saenz_chase
[01:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03car_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=car_chase
[01:23] <hosler> adamgreig: hexameron's fork compiled :D
[01:24] <adamgreig> guess we should really update the ukhas branch, heh
[01:36] <hosler> firing up the payload to test it
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[01:51] <hosler> perfect :D
[01:52] <hosler> i will celebrate with a sandwich
[02:04] <jacabrales> Due to a purchase process for the company where I work, I need information about the company that produces and markets the pi in the sky cards. By legal requirements I need the name of the manufacturer company and if that company has any relation with raspberry pi. Thank you in advance for your attention and prompt response.
[02:20] <hosler> wat
[02:21] <hosler> why not go to their website
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[06:26] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BSS6 after 0316 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BSS6
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[07:49] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
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[08:31] <Vaizki> haha another UI that only a ham could love.. http://666kb.com/i/djfdkbztokbbgpkhs.png
[08:35] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP5RZP-11 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP5RZP-11
[08:35] <Darkside> wow that is fucking terrible
[08:38] <gonzo_> my favourite was http://www.vivadatv.org/images/tutioune1600%20expert_en.jpg
[08:39] <gonzo_> though I think that other one wins (apart from the fact that I may have to use the TV one)
[08:41] <Darkside> ohh yesss
[08:41] <Darkside> two-tone
[08:42] <Darkside> (which is how i've heard that pronounced)
[08:42] <craag> two-tune
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[08:46] <gonzo_> I never could work out how to say it
[08:47] <gonzo_> it always came out rude
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[08:57] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03IU8ACV-5 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IU8ACV-5
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[08:57] <AndyEsser> Vaizki: holy crap...
[08:58] <AndyEsser> pick up a book on UI/UX... at least
[09:03] <gonzo_> there was a talk at EMF about UI's in films
[09:03] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: FUI's? (Fantasy UIs)
[09:03] <gonzo_> that was fun. The presenter was physically grating at some of them
[09:03] <gonzo_> FU-UI's
[09:04] <AndyEsser> I once paused an episode of Stargate to look at the UI in use
[09:04] <AndyEsser> the background 'code' flying passed as part of a virus was HTML...
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[09:06] <gonzo_> I used to like the radio's used in 80-90's films. Usaully AR kit and in some it had AR freqs visible
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[09:08] <gonzo_> though if it was in some of the poorer countries, they actually do that. On some of the satelites you used to get iunintentional uplinks from groups using AR sat freqs
[09:09] <gonzo_> though I suppose if it's government then they can just OK it
[09:14] <mfa298> AndyEsser: well web is one of the exploit delivery mechanisms now, maybe they were just ahead of the times :)
[09:15] <AndyEsser> mfa298: knew someone would say something like that :)
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[09:22] <fsphil> if they use GPL'ed code, do they have to open source the film?
[09:23] <Vaizki> AndyEsser: my wife is a UX consultant so I am covered ;)
[09:25] <fsphil> I think the talk mentions the A-Z onscreen keyboards used by the train ticket machines in england
[09:25] <fsphil> I feel amazingly dumb trying to type on them
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[09:25] <gonzo_> I thiny you were right. I cringed. But ours are qwerty
[09:25] <fsphil> it's just the alphabet, I can do this
[09:26] <fsphil> why is it so hard
[09:26] <gonzo_> they forget that everyone uses qwerty daily
[09:27] <fsphil> yeah, need to take a tip from the mobile phone crowd
[09:27] <fsphil> for international visitors maybe, but even those keyboards are often closer to qwerty than abcdef...
[09:27] <gonzo_> even having the numeric square kbd on phones/pc's different is a pain
[09:28] <gonzo_> I did one for .... thibnk it was the southwest trains, and took ages measuring a reak kbd to try and get the offsets in the rows to look right
[09:29] <gonzo_> even though the touch screens have a reslution that can bearly deffetentiate between one arse cheek and the ther
[09:29] <fsphil> oh yes, didn't consider it might vary by region
[09:29] <fsphil> thought it was england wide
[09:29] <gonzo_> there are also a numbbe of machine suppliers and everyone cooks up their own soln
[09:30] <craag> lol no fsphil, welcome to privatisation
[09:30] <gonzo_> each customer/operator cbuy their own machines and tend to spec their own reqs
[09:31] <gonzo_> some stations down here have multiple machines from different suppliers. So you have to learn a number of UI's
[09:31] <craag> I know someone else in this channel has regular complaint of supporting railway info terminals..
[09:33] <gonzo_> I recon ouy stsrems will slowly merge into one generic offering. If only to stop the enmgineers going mad!
[09:33] <gonzo_> out streams
[09:34] <AndyEsser> typing not so good again today gonzo_ ? :)
[09:34] <fsphil> he's on an a-z keyboard
[09:35] <AndyEsser> :)
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[09:53] <Vaizki> they re-did the travel card terminals here too 1.5 years ago or so... they're SO hard to use they made an online simulator where you can practise beforehand ;)
[09:54] <AndyEsser> ....
[09:54] <russss> lol
[09:54] <AndyEsser> whut...
[09:55] <russss> Vaizki: surely not as bad as this though http://living-in-washingtondc.com/dcguide.php/images/metro/metro-passesfarecard-machine.jpg
[09:55] <russss> er, nice failure of mime types there.
[09:55] <Vaizki> :D
[09:56] <russss> https://i.stack.imgur.com/BiSAr.jpg
[09:56] <gonzo_> I just can't type. It was fun when they gave us some 'vdu training' and did all the BS about having the monitor at eye height, to prevent neck strain (and claims)
[09:57] <gonzo_> for me that caused strain, as I have to look at screen, then look down at kbd to see what keys I am pressing
[09:57] <gonzo_> that just broke the training
[09:58] <gonzo_> I carried on, doing it, cross legged on a swivle chair, with my chin on the desk, just to take the piss a bit more
[09:59] <AndyEsser> russss: omg
[09:59] <AndyEsser> buying a ticket should not be that complicated
[10:01] <gonzo_> there is a tendancy for people to want to put lots of info and features on a UI
[10:02] <russss> all ticket machines are bad though
[10:02] <gonzo_> I have to keep limiting then (usually unsuccssfully) and explaining that most people will hardly read even the basic inf
[10:02] <gonzo_> and what they really want is one big mashable button with 'give me the ticket to whjere I want to go'
[10:06] <gonzo_> recall the top gear, where they had a car for the elderly, with a sat nav with three buttons, home, molly's, bingo. That's pretty much what is needed. If you have processing power, use it to diostill the UI down as much as poss
[10:07] <russss> (aside from everything else wrong with the DC ticket machine, it is pretty inexcusable for the capital of the USA to have a ticket machine which is only usable by people who can read english)
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[10:09] <gonzo_> the worls extends all the way from east coast to west coast. Why would anyone speak anything else?
[10:10] <fsphil> English (Simplified)
[10:14] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: Push Button, Get Bacon is my usual approach to UIs
[10:14] <gonzo_> wonder when we will need to add a language option for 'chav' ?
[10:14] <AndyEsser> I may add additional info/features, but usually hidden away somewhere - so you get the Basic UI to start, and if needs be you have the options
[10:14] <gonzo_> translations to 'nuffink, innit.
[10:15] <gonzo_> that is a good answer to all requests
[10:15] <AndyEsser> prime example, the self checkout counters
[10:15] <AndyEsser> usually are fine
[10:15] <AndyEsser> but all of them seem to fail at the payment stage
[10:16] <AndyEsser> once you hit "Finish and Pay", already allow cash to be entered, already allow a card to be put in, already allow your clubcard to be scanned
[10:16] <AndyEsser> you shouldn't make the user press "Cash" or "Card" etc
[10:17] <gonzo_> most issues I have seem to be with the weighjing
[10:18] <gonzo_> if you are not putting the item directly down and dtanding well back, they get confused
[10:18] <gonzo_> prat about actually trying to pack a bag neatly and it breaks
[10:22] <craag> AndyEsser: I think some of that has come with contactless, they have to require user confirmation before enabling contactless to avoid accidental payment
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[10:23] <gonzo_> really don't trust that. Wonder how many cases there have been for electronicly pick pocketing someione
[10:24] <craag> for piece of mind use a card that pings you for each transaction :) (monzo)
[10:26] <gonzo_> even if they have tight comms for card to reader, it wouldn't take much to just intercept and trunk it over 4g, to a remote place, where someone is being pickpocketed
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[10:27] <gonzo_> even if the timing is tight, it should be poss with an analog link
[10:27] <gonzo_> expect kit will start to appear at some stage
[10:28] <gonzo_> then the bancks will try and cover it up for a period, before they have to address the issue
[10:28] <craag> there have already been a couple of over-eager readers around (eg. that will do a contactless transaction when you put it in the chip'n'pin slot)
[10:29] <craag> m&s had those for a while I think
[10:34] <gonzo_> I don't use contactless, so if there is ever a transaction, it will be fraud
[10:35] Action: mfa298 hopes that enabling Advanced UI stuff in AndyEsser's code is activated by entering shibboleet
[10:37] <gonzo_> started taking funcube telemetry again. After an 18month gap. I have a lot of catchig up to do on the rankings!
[10:37] <AndyEsser> mfa298: Konami Code
[10:39] <digitalboy> Hi guys, I need an advice: I'm looking for a thermocouple/RTD sensor that goes as low as -70°C with an accuracy of +/- 1°C ~, what do you recommend?
[10:41] <russss> I think most K-type thermocouples will do that
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[10:56] <edmoore> they certainly will
[10:56] <edmoore> they will go down to about -200C
[10:58] <edmoore> however, typeT is a bit more accurate than K, usually an accuracy of 1K rather than 2K for type K
[10:58] <edmoore> digitalboy ^
[11:06] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HB9HFJ-11 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HB9HFJ-11
[11:09] <digitalboy> edmoore Excuse my ignorance but by accuracy of "K" what do you mean?
[11:09] <digitalboy> Thank you btw for your reply
[11:09] <digitalboy> :)
[11:10] <edmoore> sorry, k for kelvin
[11:10] <edmoore> a difference of 1K is a difference of 1C
[11:10] <edmoore> but 0K is -273ish C
[11:11] <edmoore> i work with cold things sometimes so we naturally use K in conversation at work but I appreciate C is probably more helpful
[11:11] <edmoore> so a typeK thermocouple if accuracte to about 2C
[11:11] <edmoore> and a type T thermocouple is accurate to about 1C
[11:11] <edmoore> inherently, and you can of course calibrate a specific one to improve things
[11:16] <digitalboy> Oh, now is clear, thank you very much :)
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[11:19] <edmoore> as you probably know, you will need a second temperature sensor on the cold junction of your thermocouple
[11:20] <edmoore> as a thermocouple just measures the difference in temperature between one node and another, and so you need to know the absolute temperature of the other node (the cold junction) in order to calculate the absolute temperature of the node you're trying to measure
[11:28] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HB9FDK-2 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HB9FDK-2
[11:33] <gonzo_> if you can get away with -40ish, I seem to recall that microcho
[11:33] <gonzo_> ip? do some temp sensors. linearised and cal'ed
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[11:40] <gonzo_> MCP9701A
[11:40] <gonzo_> though not +- 1deg, but convenient for hab use
[11:41] <gonzo_> especially pico type altitused
[11:52] <edmoore> air temp does get lower though, if that's what you're trying to measure
[11:59] <gonzo_> that was my caveat
[12:17] Nick change: day -> daey
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[12:30] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP9UOB-P29 after 035 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP9UOB-P29
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[12:34] <ak_> Hello! How can I test a balloon tracker is working and get my tracker to appear on the map prior to actually launching? I'm jusing the PITS board and have dl-fldigi working locally. Thanks!
[12:36] <daveake> Theres a page for that (TM) - http://www.pi-in-the-sky.com/index.php?id=getting-on-the-map
[12:40] <ak_> Excellent thank you! I've also been trying to see where the SSDV images are locally saved after decoding, however I cannot find any in the images folder?
[12:41] <daveake> It's in the dl-fldigi settings dialog
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[13:45] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03AKTEST - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AKTEST
[13:46] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SQ7ACP-11 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SQ7ACP-11
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[14:08] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SQ7BR-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SQ7BR-11
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[16:17] <cairin> I am planning on sending a balloon to 35km. I am using the pits zero board, using LoRa modules for comms(434MHz) - 1/4 wave ground plane antenna. I have a Pi A+ with LoRa expansion and a stubby antenna - will I need an antenna with better gain for the base station? Any available resources that I could calculate the necessary gain needed or verify that the current setup is adequate? All help is greatly appreciated :)
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[16:23] <cairin> Also, has anyone here ever bought a balloon from South Africa and know of any suppliers? Shipping from the US is more than the balloon cost :/
[16:23] <craag> cairin: What country are you in?
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[16:23] <cairin> South Africa.
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[16:24] <craag> Ah
[16:24] <craag> I don't know of any suppliers there, but it may be worth checking what the shipping is from: http://www.randomengineering.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Balloons.html
[16:25] <craag> Also an email to the mailing list may get you an answer, there are others in SA around.
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[16:26] <cairin> Well there are balloon suppliers here, they just don't stock anything larger than 1000g balloons.
[16:27] <adamgreig> 1000g is pretty big for most payloads
[16:27] <adamgreig> I guess if you wanna hit as high as possible it's nice to have something bigger
[16:28] <cairin> Our payload is 1300g, which is why we need the larger size.
[16:29] <cairin> According to http://habhub.org/calc/ a 1600g - Hwoyee should do the trick.
[16:30] <daveake> 1300g is fairly weighty these days ... what's in it ?
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[16:31] <daveake> Other thing to mention is that 35km won't get you noticeably better pictures than 30km, so perhaps aim for that instead
[16:33] <cairin> It will be carrying a reentry capsule designed for cubesats. basically we need to do a high altitude test to ensure that the connection to the iridium satelite network works on descent. So not really worried about the picture quality.
[16:35] <adamgreig> you're testing whether a cubesat in the process of reentry would be able to talk to iridium, using a payload dropped from a hab?
[16:35] <craag> heh
[16:38] <cairin> adamgreig: yes. But not a whole cubesat. Just a reentry capsule designed by students at the university of Stuttgard to be used by cubesats.
[16:39] <SpeedEvil> What is the design for it?
[16:40] <cairin> Its a miniture version of the reentry capsule used on the Soyuz spacecraft.
[16:41] <edmoore> is it going to be flown as a cubesat eventually?
[16:41] <SpeedEvil> Today in principle, useful stuff could be damn light.
[16:41] <cairin> The capsule is 600g
[16:42] <SpeedEvil> Small battery, microSD, ...
[16:44] <cairin> I didn't design the capsule. My job is to take it to high altitude..
[16:44] <edmoore> will it be flying a representative parachute?
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[16:46] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LOCKERBIE - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=LOCKERBIE
[16:46] <edmoore> or rather, will the real thing have a parachute or will it just try and survive an impact?
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[16:47] <adamgreig> no one said anything about surviving reentry :P
[16:48] <edmoore> I just assumed that it would do if it was being tested in hab conditions
[16:49] <adamgreig> i've seen a few things around trying to talk to/track cubesats during re-entry for research purposes, with the goal being talk to it while it reenters but it still burns up eventually
[16:49] <adamgreig> having the cubesat survive and land on the ground seems much harder!
[16:50] <adamgreig> but i agree, once you get to 35km and 0m/s velocity, the cubesat can survive from there...
[16:50] <adamgreig> which is why i wonder if the hab release simulates the re-entry conditions that well :P
[16:50] <edmoore> mmm, i'm not sure what having iridium still work at 35km on a hab will tell you anaything about the other side
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[16:50] <adamgreig> quite
[16:51] <cairin> edmoore: No parachute.
[16:51] <edmoore> but is it designed to renter in-tact?
[16:53] <cairin> Yes, it's currently going to be used to acquire data about the behavior of an ablation material on reentry. After the re-entry black-out phase, a link to a commercial satellite is established to transmit the data collected by the sensors on board the capsule.
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[16:53] <edmoore> I see
[16:54] <cairin> Obviously not necessary to have it intact on landing.
[16:54] <adamgreig> cool
[16:54] <adamgreig> any idea how fast the cubesat is going after blackout?
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[16:56] <cairin> No, the reason for the hab experiment is because the capsule didn't activate when they tested it at higher altitude with a rocket, so they had to redesign the capsule.
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[16:57] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03EPSOM - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=EPSOM
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[17:03] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03NOTAFLIGHT - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=NOTAFLIGHT
[17:04] Action: Laurenceb_ has been reading uk firearms act
[17:04] <Laurenceb_> it can be read as saying that rockets launched from a tube rather than a rail are firearms
[17:05] <Laurenceb_> don't know if any of the amateur rocketry people are familiar with such an interpretation?
[17:06] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03joker_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=joker_chase
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[17:06] <SpeedEvil> I read that casually, and came to the conclusion that anything that shoots anything in any manner and has a barrel has a real non-negligible risk of it being interpreted as a firearm if someone tries to do that.
[17:06] <SpeedEvil> The firearms act is ludicrously loose in the definition.
[17:06] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[17:07] <Laurenceb_> there is a blanket exemption for pyrotechnic, line throwing, and signalling devices
[17:07] <Laurenceb_> also anything handheld with a trigger is clearly covered
[17:08] <SpeedEvil> There are also silly exclusions.
[17:08] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[17:08] <SpeedEvil> For example, airguns are tightly regulated - unless you shoot them from underwater.
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[17:08] <Laurenceb_> what pyrotechnic and signalling means is v poorly defined
[17:08] <SpeedEvil> It's clearly designed for a speargun, but can be simply used for any air launched projectile.
[17:08] <Laurenceb_> basically they seem to want to blanket exclude all fireworks
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[17:09] <SpeedEvil> Have you carefully read any 'interpretation' sections. (it's been a while since I checked, and I never looked at it for this)
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[17:11] <Laurenceb_> yeah I read the guidelines
[17:11] <Laurenceb_> they seem to say it can be read losely if the device is clearly not a weapon
[17:15] <SpeedEvil> Guidelines are not part of the law though.
[17:15] <SpeedEvil> This is very very low risk IMO, unless you actually hurt someone with it
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[17:26] <Laurenceb_> well the description of a launcher as any tube is also in the guidelines
[17:27] <Laurenceb_> the law itself just says any rocket launcher
[17:27] <Laurenceb_> so all amateur rocketry falls foul of that
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[17:28] <Laurenceb_> I guess this means it's ok, but tube launched is somewhat more tricky to justify than rail launched, due to the wording of the guidelines
[17:29] <Laurenceb_> bbl
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[17:46] <AndyEsser> Laurenceb: re firearms act and any plans you have - speak to your local firearms liaison officer
[17:47] <AndyEsser> from what I've heard, most are happy enough to answer questions - and they're all listed on a handy website with email address and mobile numbers
[17:49] <AndyEsser> I will be emailing my local firearms officer this week
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[18:07] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03DC2EH-11 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DC2EH-11
[18:08] <AndyEsser> Laurenceb: aforementioned list: http://www.hse.gov.uk/explosives/elo.htm
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[18:40] <AndyEsser> in case anyone is interested, panorama of my office now it's about 80% of the way complete: http://imgur.com/YCecnxJ
[18:47] <Laurenceb_> AndyEsser: thanks for the link
[18:49] <AndyEsser> np
[18:51] <Laurenceb_> are you into amateur rocketry?
[18:52] <AndyEsser> card carrying member of the UKRA
[18:52] <AndyEsser> will be doing my L1 and possibly L2 certs this summer, time pending
[18:52] <Laurenceb_> ah cool
[18:53] <Laurenceb_> do you know if amateur rocketry is usually defined as "pyrotechnics"?
[18:53] <AndyEsser> it is not
[18:53] <Laurenceb_> as the law has a general exemption for that
[18:53] <AndyEsser> pyrotechnics is typically show stuff
[18:53] <Laurenceb_> ah I see
[18:53] <Laurenceb_> yeah I get it
[18:53] <AndyEsser> for concerts/stage shows etc
[18:53] <AndyEsser> what are you wanting to do it?
[18:53] <AndyEsser> to do?*
[18:53] <Laurenceb_> rockoons
[18:53] <AndyEsser> your rockoon?
[18:53] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[18:53] <AndyEsser> ah yes, I can see how it might be misconstrued as a...mortor
[18:53] <AndyEsser> mortar*
[18:54] <Laurenceb_> worried that the peculiarities of the launch mechanism might cause issues
[18:54] <Laurenceb_> as I read it there are no mortar issues
[18:54] <Laurenceb_> but in fact any rocket launch mechanism is prohibited
[18:54] <AndyEsser> however, I suspect your biggest issue would be CAA not firearms - however - an email to your local FLO should clear things up, they may want to come down and see the device itself and things
[18:54] <Laurenceb_> unless its pyrotechnic or signalling related
[18:55] <Laurenceb_> so amateur rocketry must come under this
[18:55] <Laurenceb_> sorry if I've discovered that amateur rocketry isn't technically illegal :P
[18:55] <AndyEsser> so the amateur rocketry stuff comes into play with Firearms/Explosives when you want to Acquire and/or Store explosives
[18:55] <Laurenceb_> *legal
[18:55] <AndyEsser> there are no restrictions (as far as I can tell) with Black Powder
[18:55] <Laurenceb_> sure I'm familiar with all that side of things
[18:55] <AndyEsser> however AP rocket motors are the tricksy ones
[18:56] <AndyEsser> and if you're going to acquire, store, or even transport them above a certain power - you'll need an Explosives License
[18:56] <Laurenceb_> its the firearms act classifying rocket launch mechanisms that I have issue with
[18:56] <AndyEsser> again, sure you know this
[18:56] <Laurenceb_> as it seems to be a blanket classification
[18:56] <AndyEsser> yea, see - I don't _think_ they'd have any issues
[18:56] <Laurenceb_> yeah I'm all legal as far as that stuff goes
[18:56] <AndyEsser> I think it's sort of up to interpretation by the Firearms Liaison
[18:56] <AndyEsser> and the... orientation
[18:56] <Laurenceb_> I see if the guidelines that they are supposed to be flexible
[18:56] <AndyEsser> if it's due to be launched horizontally... you may have issues
[18:57] <AndyEsser> but vertically, you _should_ be ok
[18:57] <Laurenceb_> so a launch mechanism that is not intended as a weapon should not be classified as a firearms
[18:57] <AndyEsser> again, speak to your local guy, he'll be able to either guide you, or sign off on it
[18:57] <Laurenceb_> but technically by the letter of the law any rocket launch mechanism not for pyrotechnics is a firearms
[18:57] <Laurenceb_> confusing
[18:57] <Laurenceb_> ok
[18:57] <AndyEsser> I also think there's something to do with delayed triggering
[18:57] <Laurenceb_> oh
[18:57] <AndyEsser> but I haven't read all the rules
[18:57] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KK6PNN-5 after 036 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KK6PNN-5
[18:58] <AndyEsser> I may be chatting nonsense
[18:58] <Laurenceb_> ok
[18:58] <AndyEsser> but I'm sure I saw something...
[18:58] <Laurenceb_> well the guidelines has launch mechanisms examples that are clearly weapons
[18:58] <Laurenceb_> e.g. handheld and with hand trigger
[18:59] <Laurenceb_> but even that has exceptions for rescue devices
[18:59] <Laurenceb_> its rather a minefield :P
[18:59] <AndyEsser> just move to the States :)
[18:59] <AndyEsser> and with that, time for me to leave the office and head home
[18:59] <AndyEsser> laters
[19:00] <Laurenceb_> cya
[19:00] <AndyEsser> good luck with it
[19:00] <AndyEsser> does this mean you're making progress?
[19:03] <Laurenceb_> yeah I seem to have worked out a stabilisation technique that works
[19:03] <Laurenceb_> rocket launches from a tube (makes it easy to keep it warm and protected)
[19:04] <Laurenceb_> then there are clip on laser sintered nylon vanes to spin it using the exhaust
[19:04] <Laurenceb_> which takes a few hundred milliseconds, so they survive the exhaust ok
[19:05] <Laurenceb_> then the centrifugal force snaps them off once the rocket is spinning at 30k rpm or so
[19:05] <Laurenceb_> managed to get it to more or less work at ~sea level
[19:06] <Laurenceb_> problems are related to flow separation, which wont happen at altitude
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[19:23] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HAPROS - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HAPROS
[19:25] Nick change: pb1dft__ -> pb1dft
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[19:57] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03icarusIV after 0315 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=icarusIV
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[20:14] <HAPROS> can we get the HAPROS flight document approved? Document id: 50f8ee2547e366dcf5bbda932ef1a270
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[20:16] <daveake> Sigh
[20:17] <daveake> Not even time to send him/her to #habhub
[20:17] <edmoore> Just pretend you never saw it
[20:19] <daveake> saw what?
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[20:31] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC1HLF-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC1HLF-11
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[22:37] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IK8SUT-11 after 0320 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IK8SUT-11
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[23:18] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03YPADSONDE after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YPADSONDE
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[00:00] --- Tue May 23 2017