highaltitude.log.20170509

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[00:12] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BSS5 after 033 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BSS5
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[00:30] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KG5RYU_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KG5RYU_chase
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[04:00] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
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[05:40] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03UBSEDS24 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS24
[05:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CALLSIGN123_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CALLSIGN123_chase
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[07:17] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KK6PNN-5 after 033 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KK6PNN-5
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[08:08] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP5RZP-11 after 037 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP5RZP-11
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[09:12] <pb0ahx> !flights
[09:12] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: There are no flights currently :(
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[11:21] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03YPADSONDE after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YPADSONDE
[11:24] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ingrid_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ingrid_chase
[11:24] <richardeoin> woo go ingrid
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[12:43] <richardeoin> Laurenceb: no ping from the cutdown board, it's silent unless queried
[12:44] Action: AndyEsser imagines ingrid is a doddery older lady in a Nissan Micra
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[12:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03EPSOM - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=EPSOM
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[12:57] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03LHS_S1 after 036 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=LHS_S1
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[14:08] <lz1cla> Hey guys. I am trying to track UBSEDS24, but i hear only beeps. fldigi is set on contestia 16/1000, but no decodes
[14:11] <richardeoin> hey lz1cla
[14:11] <richardeoin> are you able to post a screen capture of the waterfall?
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[14:14] <lz1cla> How can i post picture here ? I am using webchat
[14:14] <adamgreig> upload to imgur.com
[14:15] <lz1cla> but the waterfall does not show anything except little lines, when the "tidit" is heard
[14:16] <richardeoin> it should be 10 seconds of pips, at 1 pip per second
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[14:16] <richardeoin> centre 434.635MHz
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[14:17] <lz1cla> i hear only 2-3 from time to time
[14:17] <lz1cla> is it temeprature stabilized ?
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[14:20] <richardeoin> hmm that's no good
[14:21] <richardeoin> yes it has a temperature compensated osc
[14:26] <lz1cla> Maybe its just too far. I will keep you posted what is going on when it is closer to my location
[14:29] <richardeoin> okay, sure
[14:30] <richardeoin> it only transmits once per minute, so you won't hear it continously
[14:36] <lz1cla> what radio module do you use to transmit contestia ? I have tried domino with ntx2b, but the signal is all over the place even in my house
[14:37] <lz1cla> still collecting info before launching a baloon :)
[14:39] <richardeoin> this particular one is a ax5243 radio
[14:40] <richardeoin> but the silabs si4xxx series are more commonly used
[14:40] <richardeoin> here's a simpler design that uses a si4063 radio for example http://www.bristol-seds.co.uk/pico-tracker/
[14:49] <Jordan_> Supposing I use LoRa at 434? does it screw everyone else working at 434?
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[14:54] <PE2BZ> Jordan_ not at all. You use a small allowed part to transmit. Perhaps an idea to check with a scanner / receiver which frequencies are often occupied in your area ?
[14:55] <PE2BZ> Do you know how a radiospectrum looks like ?
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[14:57] <Jordan_> well my specific is 434.5. But after looking on HDSDR my lora board covers all from 434.4 - 434.6. To me this seems a tad anti-social to all those who want to use them frequency bands
[14:58] <PE2BZ> That is at close distance I suppose ?
[14:58] <Jordan_> The wedge view seems relative to my zoom rate too. Wondered if HDSDR is visually lying to me :P
[14:58] <Jordan_> Yes thats like 30 cm away. is this normal?
[14:59] <PE2BZ> Than it´s normal. Strenght goes with distance. If you can move the tracker away (4 - 5 meters) you will notice that the signal gets narrower. Which lora mode ?
[15:00] <Jordan_> 3- faster ssdv
[15:00] <Ian_> Perhaps the proximity of the tx to the rx is overloading the rx. At a significantly greater distance a lot of the images will disappear.
[15:00] <Jordan_> thanks PE2BZ
[15:01] <PE2BZ> Lora mode 3 has a bandwidth of 250 kHz so 434.4 to 434.6 looks normal.
[15:01] <daveake> Didn't we have this discussion yesterday?
[15:02] <daveake> 434 bands max legally allowed bandwidth is 25kHz
[15:02] <daveake> So you need to stick with mode 1
[15:02] <Ian_> Yesterday you were asking about increasing the bandwidth on a rx. It is a little like having a conversation with a friend in a large hall, then increasing the rx bandwidth makes it a little more like having the same conversation along with everyone else in the large room also talking at once .. .
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[15:03] <Jordan_> Okay daveake so If I want 250 kHz I need to get a 868 module like we discussed yesterday?
[15:03] <Ian_> The rx bandwidth should be large enough to receive the transmitted signal. Increasing the rx bandwidth brings in extra noise
[15:03] <daveake> yes
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[15:06] <Ian_> Anology time: On tx think of power as tea-bags and bandwidth as people. One teabag per person is fine, but if you try to share that tea-bag with ten people then it's difficult for them to even detect the taste of tea :)
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[15:08] <Ian_> That's why your local tv transmitter is rated in kilowatts, because the video signal (analogue tv example) is around 5MHz wide and so needs a lot of tea to go around . . .
[15:08] <Jordan_> Cheers, I'll be getting a 868 Mhz shortly. Is it worth even looking into the 915 Mhz, or does 868 satisfy my needs as discussed yesterday?
[15:08] <PE2BZ> Is 915 Mhz allowed where you live :-)
[15:09] <Jordan_> Well this is the thing, I hav'nt looked into it yet, before delving into pointless research, just though I could pose the quick question here.
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[15:09] <adamgreig> usually you have a choice of 868 or 915, not both
[15:10] <adamgreig> eg no 915 in the UK, no 868 in the USA
[15:10] <Jordan_> 868 it is ;)
[15:10] <Jordan_> I might grab a 915 to when I go and test abroad :)
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[15:16] <lz1cla> 868 is used by all Lora gates and nodes in Europe. If you put it on a baloon it will cause great annoyance in Lora comunity :)
[15:17] <adamgreig> lots of people fly lora on 868 on balloons
[15:17] <adamgreig> ?
[15:17] <lz1cla> really ?
[15:17] <PE2BZ> lz1cla no, it won´t.
[15:17] <adamgreig> yea it's very common
[15:17] <PE2BZ> It´s a different protocol, and there is a duty cycle agreement for different frequencies.
[15:18] <lz1cla> i have read today a document stating that you have to send no more than 10 messages per day etc. etc.
[15:18] <adamgreig> that's probably more LoRaWAN to ground gateways
[15:18] <lz1cla> it is in different part of the spectrum ?
[15:19] <PE2BZ> That´s the life of the battery of the LoRa device.
[15:19] <lz1cla> where can i read about 868 Lora on HAB projexts?
[15:20] <lz1cla> projects
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[15:22] <Laurenceb_> richardeoin: ping
[15:22] <Laurenceb_> I didnt realise you had a near perfect antenna location for the uplink tests
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[15:23] <Laurenceb_> I tried calculating the link budget, looks like there was 25dB missing somewhere...
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[15:25] <Laurenceb_> how were you tuning?
[15:43] <richardeoin> Laurenceb_: the site is still well below some of the surrounding hills
[15:43] <richardeoin> not exactly perfect
[15:44] <richardeoin> the python script tunes to the reported offset from the last packet
[15:48] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SSTAR0133 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SSTAR0133
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[16:01] <lz1cla> I still hear the beeps of UBSEDS24, but no other signals, nor decodes. Its loud and clear otherwise.
[16:02] <richardeoin> lz1cla: the pips are on the same frequency, right? At 1 second intervals?
[16:03] <lz1cla> there are only from time to time
[16:03] <lz1cla> sometimes they are 2 or 3 one after another with 1 sec intervals
[16:03] <lz1cla> but sometimes its just one
[16:04] <lz1cla> Its strange, because the signal is very good. Teh telemetry should come after the beeps ?
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[16:05] <richardeoin> that is strange
[16:06] <richardeoin> what is the centre freq?
[16:06] <lz1cla> It moves a little
[16:06] <richardeoin> G8FJG reported 434.634936 yesterday
[16:07] <lz1cla> 434.635500
[16:07] <lz1cla> it depends on the radio also
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[16:08] <lz1cla> right now i am using funcube pro+
[16:08] <richardeoin> ah okay
[16:09] <richardeoin> yes you can't expect all the local oscilators to be perfectly calibrated
[16:09] <richardeoin> but it sounds like you're got the right freq
[16:10] <richardeoin> do you see anything on 434.637.500? (2.5kHz up)
[16:10] <richardeoin> that's the centre frequency for the RTTY I think
[16:11] <G8FJG> Ian_ : have you copyrighted the tea bag analogy? made my day ..been scraping wallpaper all day ..needed cheering up ..thanks...Ron
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[16:15] <dbrooke> richardeoin: from observation yesterday, the RTTY was sent immediately following the contestia on almost exactly the same centre frequency
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[16:18] <lz1cla> dont hear anything on 434.6375
[16:18] <G8FJG> richardeoin: the rtty was perfectly centred on the contessia
[16:18] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Would agree they seem centred.
[16:19] <G8FJG> centered on 434.634936
[16:19] <G8FJG> exactly
[16:21] <richardeoin> ah okay, ignore the 434.6375 then
[16:21] <lz1cla> will wait then
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[16:21] <richardeoin> I wasn't sure which frequency the RTTY ended up on
[16:21] <lz1cla> hope it will show up before dark
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[16:23] <richardeoin> hmm it's expected to start transmitting aprs again when it reaches Bulgaria or Greece
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[16:24] <G8FJG> I use one of LeoBodnar gps 10mhz ref ...its ok to 1hz at 434 believe me .....its nice to be able to lock in from cold..
[16:25] <G8FJG> well its nice to tell the yanks they're off frequency
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[16:26] <G8FJG> :-)
[16:26] <adamgreig> hah
[16:26] <richardeoin> ah that's very neat
[16:26] <lz1cla> :)
[16:26] <richardeoin> yes heard good things about those
[16:26] <adamgreig> should be better than 1Hz at 434MHz
[16:28] <adamgreig> more like mHz
[16:28] <adamgreig> good luck measuring that of course
[16:28] <G8FJG> distributed around the shack...up to 23cms and freq measure kit
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[16:29] <G8FJG> it may well be but I can only check against other gpsdo beacons ..and it works for me ...burning the dinner now, slow tyiper
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[16:34] <Ian_> G8FJG Loafing in the sunshine here . . . even kids understand about the power of tea bags, as well as their limitations. Make it memorable, it doesn't matter why they remember, just as long as they do.
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[16:48] <Laurenceb_> back, sorry was afk
[16:48] <Laurenceb_> richardeoin: I put it into some propagation modelling tools
[16:49] <Laurenceb_> looks like you had close to perfect conditions, at least at 5 degrees above the horizon
[16:50] <Laurenceb_> although once it got much below 4 degrees the propagation get a lot worse
[16:51] <Laurenceb_> *got
[16:51] <Laurenceb_> how do I engrish
[16:54] <Laurenceb_> I wonder if the frequency offset between "pings" got too much
[16:56] <richardeoin> err I will go back and plot the offset at some point
[16:56] <richardeoin> next month
[16:57] <Laurenceb_> hehe join the club
[16:57] <adamgreig> you doing final project now richardeoin or what? final exams soon?
[16:58] <Laurenceb_> so the plan is to recover the Rpi using the cutdown as a sort of "dead drop" data download?
[16:58] <richardeoin> ah project done, final exams starting next week
[16:59] <richardeoin> so no working on balloon stuff, at least for a few days
[17:00] <richardeoin> s/plan/aspiration/ Laurenceb_
[17:00] <richardeoin> but yup
[17:00] <Laurenceb_> would be kind of cool if it worked
[17:00] <adamgreig> nice, good luck
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[17:00] <adamgreig> you're moving to cambridge right?
[17:00] <richardeoin> thanks adamgreig
[17:00] <G8FJG> Ian_ : I suspect even at my advanced age :-) I won't forget that one .. I'll use it vicariously
[17:01] <richardeoin> yes moving in august/september time
[17:01] <adamgreig> nice
[17:01] <G8FJG> only scorched the dinner
[17:01] <Laurenceb_> work, PhD ?
[17:01] <adamgreig> I'll probably be frantically writing up around then but shout if you wanna meet up for a drink or anything
[17:04] <richardeoin> yup definitely adamgreig, that would be good
[17:04] <richardeoin> Laurenceb_: work, wasn't particularly keen on PhDing at this point
[17:05] <Laurenceb_> sounds sane to me :D
[17:05] <Laurenceb_> good luck
[17:05] <Laurenceb_> PhD is the hardest thing I've ever done
[17:06] <G8FJG> LeoBodnar: the gps 10mhz GPS-locked frequency reference works a dream...built a distribution amp for all the other kit :-)
[17:06] <Laurenceb_> but not for the reasons I expected - it requires massive management and negotiation skills
[17:06] <adamgreig> suspect phds all turn out a bit different than expected
[17:06] <Laurenceb_> unlike a degree there is no route to success
[17:06] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[17:07] <G8FJG> Been doing my phd today...paper hanging and decorating
[17:07] <Laurenceb_> there is no "right answer"
[17:07] <Laurenceb_> heh
[17:07] <adamgreig> i wish my phd involved paper hanging and decorating, sounds a lot less stressful
[17:07] <G8FJG> you haven't seen the pictures
[17:07] <richardeoin> haha G8FJG
[17:09] <Laurenceb_> paper hanging and decorating phd: ten different people all requesting different paint and wallpaper, one person complaining about the cost, and two H&S guys shouting in the background
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[17:09] <G8FJG> no no just the wife
[17:10] <Laurenceb_> oh and some other phd guy in another country looking over and laughing their head off at you
[17:10] <adamgreig> having already decorated a much nicer room
[17:10] <Laurenceb_> yup
[17:10] <adamgreig> while getting paid more :P
[17:14] <G8FJG> paid where did that come in? when you're retired you have so much spare time......as long as we get the 48 hr day..................boys...back to building the eme dish
[17:14] <Laurenceb_> thats what the 10Mhzref is for?
[17:15] <Laurenceb_> arg my spacebar is breaking
[17:15] <Laurenceb_> stupid thinkpad
[17:22] <G8FJG> Locking my sdr kit 23 cms xverter et al and ancillaries
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[17:34] <G8FJG> if anyone is interested the sdr that Daveake mentioned on his site is quite remarkable..Noo Elec.com
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[17:37] <G8FJG> I used it receiving Mancunian Balloonian....same antenna same lna same feeder etc...coax splitter to £3k sdr setup and NooElec from cold...noo decodes 2527 £3k sdr 2183 decodes
[17:38] <G8FJG> :-((
[17:39] <G8FJG> it was a qrm free frequency for me, so didn't have to chuck in all the filters the big boy has.. but still remarkable performance
[17:40] <G8FJG> just my 1d worth...old time ..
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[17:42] <daveake> not bad!
[17:42] <daveake> Not used one for an actual flight yet
[17:47] <G8FJG> I saw your review and got one...it is excellent ,little drift and about within 20hz ( well mine was) after a few mins ..with no software correction
[17:50] <fsphil> lots of choice for sdr receivers now. it's great compared to the bad old days of ft817's being a requirement :)
[17:53] <G8FJG> I have a 817 ...the dongle is far superior..if you only need rx ..no contest..
[17:53] <G8FJG> Time for a lie down..too much phding...73
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[18:04] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03hkLo1 after 0311 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=hkLo1
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[18:22] <LZ1NY> Hi! I am monitoring 434.635 but no copy?
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[18:23] <LZ1NY> Are some frequency shift expected ?
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[18:32] <LZ1NY> Does any body know if UBSEDS24 transmit on 434.635MHz??
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[18:35] <PE2BZ> LZ1NY is it still in the sunlight at the moment ?
[18:40] <LZ1NY> I thing - no
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[18:40] <PE2BZ> If I view it at https://tracker.habhub.org/#!mt=roadmap&mz=6&qm=1_day&mc=42.1276,20.5775&f=UBSEDS24 are you in the blue range ?
[18:42] <PE2BZ> The reporting callsings on tracker.habhub.org look like aprs callsigns to me. Could it be that it is in a range where only aprs is allowed / enabled ?
[18:43] <Ian_> Sounds very much like it.
[18:43] <LZ1NY> Yes, I am close to green circle..
[18:45] <PE2BZ> What is the aprs frequency in your area ?
[18:45] <LZ1NY> 144.800
[18:45] <PE2BZ> You could try if you here it there, once a minute
[18:46] <LZ1NY> Some APRS gates receive the packets
[18:46] <LZ1NY> But I am interested to receive Contestia telemetry data
[18:46] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> The geofencing layouts are on the web page http://www.bristol-seds.co.uk/hab/flight/2017/05/08/ubseds24.html
[18:46] <LZ1NY> Some APRS gates..I mean: in LZ -
[18:47] <Ian_> 374m altitude, it will be picking up a cuckoo clock or Heidi any time soon if that trajectory is maintained.
[18:48] <Ian_> You will only be able to receive Contestia telemetry if someone is using it within range of you. It's less commonly used than RTTY
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[19:12] <richardeoin> UBSEDS24 should be transmitting contestia on 434.635MHz, whilst the battery holds up
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[19:13] <richardeoin> I expect it's up to 10kHz off frequency now though, because it's cold
[19:13] <richardeoin> afk
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[20:06] <Harvy> Hi, I'm testing out a payload and I am getting some strange RF tones from the board when I try to transmit, can someone help me debug?
[20:08] <Harvy> http://imgur.com/a/J45TO
[20:09] <Harvy> It's supposed to be RTTY.
[20:12] <dbrooke> you may be overloading the receiver if it's close to the transmitter
[20:12] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> Your likely overloading the Rx!
[20:13] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> Snap
[20:13] <dbrooke> snap!
[20:13] <dbrooke> and again 8-)
[20:14] <Harvy> So if I move it away it will work?
[20:14] <Harvy> The carrier shift seems to be too wide anyway.
[20:14] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> Or remove an aerial
[20:14] <dbrooke> that and/or take the antenna off the receiver
[20:15] <Harvy> It's about 900+
[20:15] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> Great minds think alike - Dolls seldom differ :)
[20:15] <Geoff-G8DHE-Tab> Fools!
[20:17] <Harvy> ok I have the same board without an antenna.
[20:26] <Harvy> Hmm that didn't work at all, so now moved the board away.
[20:27] <Harvy> Same effect, more noise.
[20:27] <Harvy> and gobbledegook on RTTY.
[20:28] <Harvy> http://imgur.com/a/eCpJO
[20:37] <dbrooke> what transmitter do you have on the payload?
[20:38] <Harvy> LoRa DRF1278F
[20:38] <Harvy> and a loop to transmit RTTY and LoRa.
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[20:43] <dbrooke> I've no experience sending RTTY with the LoRa modules, does it work OK in LoRa mode?
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[20:45] <Harvy> I fell back to RTTY as I couldn't get LoRa to work.
[20:56] <dbrooke> LoRa should be easier as it's handled by the chipset, I'm not sure I can offer much advice other than to use a proven implementation at one end of the link in order to debug the other end
[21:01] <Harvy> Yeah I've only used the NXT2 for RTTY. I assumed this would've been easier.
[21:01] <daveake> NTX2 is easy; nothing will be easier
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[23:40] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Becky's car_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Becky's%20car_chase
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[00:00] --- Wed May 10 2017