highaltitude.log.20170508

[00:04] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KG7SSH - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KG7SSH
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[02:43] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KARB after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KARB
[03:35] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 034792_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=4792_chase
[03:36] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03828 3 90 7416_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=828%203%2090%207416_chase
[03:40] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03car_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=car_chase
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[04:02] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03UBSEDS24 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS24
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[04:27] <richardeoin> ubseds up
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[04:29] Nick change: daey_ -> daey
[04:52] <PE2BZ> Good morning. Good flight. Intendes as floater I guess ?
[05:12] <richardeoin> yup
[05:16] <PE2BZ> tnx
[05:19] <richardeoin> currently pinging to the cutdown board
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[05:29] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SV3CIX-12 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SV3CIX-12
[05:31] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
[05:39] <richardeoin> still successfully pinging cutdown board
[05:54] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Verfolger Team 3_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Verfolger%20Team%203_chase
[06:06] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BK-Ostvest2 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BK-Ostvest2
[06:14] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Das Nicomobil_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Das%20Nicomobil_chase
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[06:22] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Habibi Bloxberg_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Habibi%20Bloxberg_chase
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[06:24] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Benny Fatic_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Benny%20Fatic_chase
[06:27] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Habibi Blocksberg_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Habibi%20Blocksberg_chase
[06:30] Zokol (~Zokol@ns319387.ip-91-121-73.eu) got lost in the net-split.
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[06:58] BK-Ostevest3 (050ab69c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.5.10.182.156) joined #highaltitude.
[06:59] <BK-Ostevest3> Hello, were are the BK-Ostvest team and we wnated to start our Wetherbaloon
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[07:05] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BK-Ostvest3 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BK-Ostvest3
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[07:09] <Darkside> BK-Ostevest3: get started then!
[07:12] <PE2BZ> Let it go, let it go ;-)
[07:13] <PE2G> Goodmorning Ben
[07:15] <SA6BSS-Mike> PE2BZ: my daughter love that song :)
[07:24] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Habibi Blockberg_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Habibi%20Blockberg_chase
[07:28] <richardeoin> imags from ubseds24: http://ssdv.bristol-seds.co.uk/2017/04/02/ubseds24.html
[07:40] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03M0SBU-4 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M0SBU-4
[07:41] <Darkside> richardeoin: interesting corruption?
[07:42] <fsphil> bpg trying to fill in the gaps
[07:43] <Darkside> mmk
[07:43] <Darkside> fsphil: if you have time, i'd appreciate som ehelp with some kind of database thingy for this sonde receiver
[07:43] <Darkside> at the moment i'm just dumping stuff into a log file
[07:44] <fsphil> what's it logging?
[07:44] <Darkside> but its really screaming for soe kind of database to store the track data
[07:44] <Darkside> sonde position
[07:44] <Darkside> its also being pushed to APRS and hopefully Habitat
[07:44] <Darkside> will be testing the Habitat upload stuff ontonights sonde
[07:44] <Darkside> but it would be good to have a database of all the 'last known ' positions
[07:45] <Darkside> and other stats, i.e. ascent rate, burst altitude, descent rate
[07:45] <fsphil> good idea
[07:45] <Darkside> at the moment i have this: http://rfhead.net/sondes/last_positions.txt
[07:46] <fsphil> is it able to track multiple sondes simultaneously?
[07:46] <Darkside> which will change as of the next sonde
[07:46] <Darkside> nope
[07:46] <Darkside> i suspect that would be possible to do
[07:46] <Darkside> would require some modification to the code
[07:46] <Darkside> and probably a few more rtlsdrs, since rtl_fm will only demod one channel at a time
[07:47] <Darkside> at the moment it does a scan, and locks onto the first sonde it finds
[07:47] <fsphil> ah, it's using that
[07:47] <Darkside> if you let it scan through all detected peaks, you could possibly throw out a few threads decoding different sondes
[07:48] <Darkside> https://github.com/darksidelemm/RS/blob/master/auto_rx/auto_rx.py#L241
[07:48] <Darkside> at some point i want to have a go at using david rowe's FSK Demod instead of using rtl_fm
[07:48] <Darkside> but thats a long way down the track
[07:51] <fsphil> if I get a chance I'll set it up for tonights launch.
[07:51] <fsphil> perl code. nice
[07:51] <Darkside> eh?
[07:51] <Darkside> no perl code for me
[07:51] <Darkside> i re-write it in python
[07:52] <fsphil> in rs92
[07:52] <Darkside> oh
[07:52] <Darkside> im not using that
[07:52] <fsphil> just doing file converting
[07:52] <Darkside> im using the 'newer' version of the decoders which are in rs_module
[07:54] <PE2G> BK-Ostvest is up
[07:55] <BK-Ostevest3> We just started our Baloon at 9:45 am @BK-Ostvest 3
[07:56] <PE2G> 434.398 for 1000 Hz centre
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[08:05] <PE2BZ> Tnx Frits !
[08:07] <PE2G> PE2BZ: no rx yet?
[08:07] <PE2BZ> I am at work, so remotely tuning in ;-)
[08:07] <PE2G> OK
[08:09] <PE2G> BK-Ostvest stable signal, no freq drift
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[08:23] <PE2G> BK-Ostvest signal has become jittery, looking like after-burst
[08:23] <PE2G> But no burst
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[09:12] <pb0ahx> GM all
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[09:43] <richardeoin> ubseds should switch to RTTY in about 15 minutes
[09:44] <richardeoin> GMSK was much improved on the last flight, but the packet error rate was still >> 50%
[09:44] <richardeoin> so no re-constructed images
[09:45] <richardeoin> does anyone have any signal reports on the contestia?
[09:46] <pb0ahx> not yet
[09:46] <richardeoin> antenna on the balloon is a 2m veritcal dipole
[09:47] <dbrooke> not hugely strong but decoding OK at 350km 0.7° elevation
[09:48] <dbrooke> and as I say that I miss one
[09:49] <Geoff-G8DHE> The contestia signal is suffering deep fading at times I guess rotation is varaying in speed.
[09:57] <dbrooke> screen capture of the start of a contestia tx http://stuff.dbrooke.me.uk/sp-a4Kqsu.png
[09:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yup three captures here showing fading http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2017_Flights/UBSEDS24_20170508/index.php?ind=0
[10:07] <richardeoin> thanks dbrooke Geoff-G8DHE
[10:07] <richardeoin> perhaps the arms for the solar panels add nulls to the dipole pattern
[10:07] <richardeoin> sorting my photos rn, will post later
[10:07] <Geoff-G8DHE> could be
[10:08] Ron_G8FJG (56b243b8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.178.67.184) joined #highaltitude.
[10:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh gone to rtty
[10:13] <pb0ahx> red red grgr
[10:14] <pb0ahx> first green $$UBSEDS24,10:13:14,170508,49.41783,-0.94387,13578,6,0,3.92,2.27,10.7,0.0,-4,3,0*7155
[10:16] <pb0ahx> nice Before RSID: <<2017-05-08T10:16Z Contestia @ 1464>
[10:19] <pb0ahx> it was a litle propagation now signal gone
[10:20] <Ron_G8FJG> any way to tell if rtty image packets are being uploaded
[10:21] <richardeoin> err ask me
[10:21] <richardeoin> you're not uploading any currently
[10:21] <Ron_G8FJG> are they?
[10:22] <Ron_G8FJG> decoding from about id26 paket 55
[10:23] <richardeoin> hmm can you see http://ssdv.bristol-seds.co.uk/ and http://ssdv.bristol-seds.co.uk/data in your web browser?
[10:23] <Ron_G8FJG> Decoded image packet. Callsign: UBSE24, Image ID: 26, Resolution: 16x1312, Packet ID: 73
[10:23] <richardeoin> okay not getting them here
[10:24] <Ron_G8FJG> had the /data missing...see what happens
[10:24] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03INFINITY - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=INFINITY
[10:25] <richardeoin> coming through now Ron_G8FJG
[10:25] <richardeoin> thanks
[10:25] <Ron_G8FJG> phew
[10:26] <Ron_G8FJG> in the email had the /data bit missing
[10:27] <richardeoin> ah yes I see the confusion, will be more clear next time
[10:27] <richardeoin> or just make both work
[10:29] <cm13g09> richardeoin: I thought you were supposed to be revising for exams :P
[10:29] <richardeoin> cm13g09: errr
[10:30] <richardeoin> this is the busy morning :)
[10:30] <richardeoin> Ron_G8FJG: I've missed too much of ID 26 to recover, but hopefully should get ID 27
[10:30] <richardeoin> you're getting most of the packets through
[10:30] <Ron_G8FJG> ok
[10:31] <Ron_G8FJG> just sent youngest son back to uni for final year exams..
[10:31] <cm13g09> richardeoin: lol
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[10:35] <Ron_G8FJG> richardeoin: how many packets to a picture...approx?
[10:36] <richardeoin> the current one (ID 26) is 123 total
[10:36] <Ron_G8FJG> just on 100 now....afk for a while
[10:37] <richardeoin> okay
[10:37] <richardeoin> you can work out out by dividing the size dl-fldigi says by 16
[10:37] <richardeoin> so 16x1312 -> 1x82 = 82
[10:37] <richardeoin> 82 * 1.5 for redundancy
[10:37] <richardeoin> = 123
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[11:28] Nick change: miek___ -> miek
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[11:41] <Jerry> !flights
[11:41] <SpacenearUS> 03Jerry: Current flights: 03BK-Ostvest3 10(dcf3), 03UBSEDS24 434.635 CONTESTIA 16/1000 10(2536)
[11:41] <Jerry> !dial 2536
[11:41] <SpacenearUS> 03Jerry: Latest dials for 03UBSEDS24 10(2536): 03434.65 MHz, 434.634 MHz, 440.262 MHz, 434.63356 MHz, 434.6329 MHz, 434.6335 MHz, 0.006 MHz
[11:43] <richardeoin> ah Ron_G8FJG has the first full image, nice
[11:43] <richardeoin> ubseds page is here http://www.bristol-seds.co.uk/hab/flight/2017/05/08/ubseds24.html
[11:49] <kokey> Upu seems to ship as fast as amazon
[11:52] <gonzo_> he does it by HAB rather than drone
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[12:11] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KE8GIG-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KE8GIG-11
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[12:35] <Ron_G8FJG> back......looks like you need 194ish packets for this one!!
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[12:44] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03YPADSONDE after 039 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YPADSONDE
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[13:10] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03infinity_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=infinity_chase
[13:14] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD4BFP-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD4BFP-11
[13:15] <Jerry> !dial 2536
[13:15] <SpacenearUS> 03Jerry: Latest dials for 03UBSEDS24 10(2536): 03434.634 MHz, 434.63256 MHz, 434.65 MHz, 440.262 MHz, 0.006 MHz, 434.63254 MHz, 434.63251 MHz
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[13:16] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD4BFP_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD4BFP_chase
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[13:40] <SNBlair> Dave A - you recommend not launching 'near' to airportsor cities. I have opted for a site approx 32km from Glasgow airport. Is this ok in your opinion?
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[13:42] <SNBlair> Anybody have any knowledge of the likely coverage on the UKHAS network in the central belt area of Scotland? It seems that the central belt or the south of England are the only 2 reasonble options.
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[13:45] <Darkside> UKHAS network?
[13:46] <Darkside> *never* rely on other receivers
[13:46] <Darkside> always have your own receiver tested and running
[13:47] <Darkside> you should not be launching unless you have a receiver at your launch site, and a receiver which is transportable (i.e. running in a car) to the landing area
[13:47] <Darkside> they can be the same receiver of course
[13:47] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Kd4bfp2_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Kd4bfp2_chase
[13:47] <LazyLeopard> ...that being pretty much the only way you'll be *sure* your tracker is alive before you let your payload go.
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[13:52] <SNBlair> sorry....we WILL have our own chase vehicle and perhaps a base station but I would like to know that the 'backup' available in other regions of the uk is effective in scotland also.
[13:53] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03DK3SB-13 after 0310 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DK3SB-13
[14:00] <fsphil> there have been very few stations in scotland over the years
[14:01] <fsphil> SNBlair: when are you launching btw?
[14:01] <fsphil> I'm in glasgow this weekend
[14:02] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PYSKY2 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PYSKY2
[14:03] <SNBlair> I have pencilled in Sat 10th June + Sun 18th + Sat 24th - the window is limited as this is a school project so really needs to tke place before July
[14:04] <daveake> SNBlair: You have to ask the CAA, not me. They're the ones who use whatever rules they have to decide. As it happens I have very little experience of that side anyway - almost all my launches have been far enough away from airports to have no restrictions
[14:06] <SNBlair> I did phone the CAA today but their 'balloon guy' is on leave until May 22nd.
[14:07] <mattbrejza> where exactly did you want to launch? it depends if youre in the flight path or not
[14:07] <mattbrejza> you can get closer to an airport if youre off to the side
[14:07] <fsphil> hehe, balloon guy
[14:07] <fsphil> poor DM
[14:08] <daveake> It'll be on his gravestone ... "Rise In Peace"
[14:08] <AndyEsser> Rise in Pieces
[14:08] <daveake> Nah that's rockets
[14:08] <AndyEsser> speaking of pieces, glad the MANSEDS balloon finally managed to launch ok yesterday
[14:08] <AndyEsser> shame I wasn't able to go join them
[14:08] <AndyEsser> my flight got delayed
[14:08] <AndyEsser> I landed and checked the tracker to see it launch about 30 seconds later
[14:09] <daveake> A manchester flight got recovered?
[14:09] <AndyEsser> it did
[14:09] <daveake> things are looking up
[14:09] <fsphil> goodness
[14:09] <AndyEsser> do manchester students have a history of losing payloads?
[14:11] <fsphil> it did seem to happen quite often
[14:11] <SNBlair> I chose Newhouse, just off J6 of the M8 and 32 km due East of Glas airport.
[14:12] <AndyEsser> as long as the wind doesn't blow it anywhere near there or the approach then you should be ok
[14:12] <AndyEsser> IAMAL
[14:12] <fsphil> I am Al?
[14:12] <AndyEsser> it may be worth checking runway directions to see what direction approaches will be made etc
[14:13] <AndyEsser> IAMNAL*
[14:13] <fsphil> will-i-am's weirder brother
[14:13] <AndyEsser> lol
[14:13] <AndyEsser> that's a pretty weird dude then
[14:13] <daveake> IANDM
[14:13] <fsphil> you just won't know for sure until the CAA get back to you
[14:13] <AndyEsser> ^
[14:13] <mattbrejza> yea, youll probably get persmission, but with a cant drift west condition
[14:13] <AndyEsser> ^
[14:14] <fsphil> look for a backup site if you're worried
[14:15] <AndyEsser> something south of Hadrians wall maybe :)
[14:15] <fsphil> or further north, but then you get interesting geography
[14:15] <fsphil> interesting in a bad way
[14:15] <daveake> bad enough west of here
[14:16] <daveake> plus, here, daisy eats your payload's aerial
[14:17] <mattbrejza> although if the area between edinburgh and glasgow is quite busy you may get denied
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[14:23] <richardeoin> Ron_G8FJG: just a couple more packets to get this ubseds image fixed!
[14:24] <richardeoin> oops about 10
[14:28] <richardeoin> fixed :)
[14:29] <richardeoin> more clouds http://ssdv.bristol-seds.co.uk/2017/04/02/ubseds24.html#UBSE24_2017-05-08T12-57-42_41
[14:30] <fsphil> pretty clouds though
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[14:32] <Ron_G8FJG> Im right on the blue line!!
[14:33] <gonzo_> I list it a while ago. But I'm in a valley
[14:33] <gonzo_> lost
[14:34] <Ron_G8FJG> there is about an 8db difference in max and min signals...just need to be lucky a few times
[14:34] <Jerry> what freq is ubseds on please?
[14:35] <Ron_G8FJG> 434.635
[14:36] <Jerry> is is horizontal polarisation? I'm just south of it and can't hear a thing.. using a colinear
[14:36] <Ron_G8FJG> Vpol
[14:36] <Jerry> hmm ok, strange
[14:36] <Ron_G8FJG> not constant signal
[14:37] <Ron_G8FJG> 403km now from me
[14:37] <Jerry> ok, i think i heard a blip, do i have rid on?
[14:37] <Jerry> rxid
[14:37] <Jerry> impressive
[14:37] <gonzo_> pips, then contestia then 300bd rtty and a rest for a cuppa
[14:38] <gonzo_> centre the decode on the pips and you should be tuned
[14:38] <Jerry> how long is the rest?
[14:38] <richardeoin> indeed
[14:38] <richardeoin> should be 15-20 seconds rest
[14:38] <Ron_G8FJG> you can for the contestia 16/1000
[14:38] <gonzo_> the rtty is pretty much centred on the pips too
[14:39] <Jerry> ok
[14:39] <richardeoin> the rest is so the cutdown rx isn't deafened
[14:39] <gonzo_> is there a planned cutdown?
[14:40] <AndyEsser> aww, far too far away for me to get with the car rig
[14:40] <Ron_G8FJG> The sig hasnt drifted at all ,all day,,
[14:41] <richardeoin> hmm not really a planned cutdown
[14:41] <richardeoin> if it comes back over england/wales
[14:41] <Ron_G8FJG> centered on 434.634936
[14:41] <richardeoin> and it's still working
[14:41] <richardeoin> and the stars align
[14:41] <richardeoin> then would try to cutdown and get the sd card
[14:44] <PE2BZ> Cambridge seems to have weathersonde practicing day. 10 launches so far.
[14:44] <Ian_> :) SD card eject mechanism - a la KH11 sat's. Maybe catch it in mid air with a drone . . . 'cos you won't find it on the ground if it lands.
[14:44] Action: Ian_ stops dreaming
[14:45] <PE2BZ> Ian_ Can´t AndyEsser pick it up on one of his flights ?
[14:45] <richardeoin> haha
[14:45] <richardeoin> this one drops the whole assembly with a hot pink streamer behind it http://www.bristol-seds.co.uk/assets/flights/24/streamer_assy.jpg
[14:45] <Ron_G8FJG> richardeoin: looks like I'm stuck on image 29 packet 256....410km now ...wont be long
[14:45] <Ian_> Precision aerobatics . . . probably . . . oops didn't fit between the prop blades!
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[14:45] <kokey> Ian_: reminds me of the Corona spy satellites image recovery
[14:46] <AndyEsser> was quite surprised that my flying isntructor yesterday knew about the NOTAM in place for the Manchester launch
[14:46] <AndyEsser> I had joked about going and intercepting the launch :P
[14:46] <richardeoin> Ron_G8FJG: yup, very good going anyhow
[14:46] <PE2BZ> Do flight instructors like jokes ? ;-)
[14:48] Action: Ian_ wonders how many NOTAMs go unread/unheeded by small operators. It was all paper when I received them years ago, but if they are geo selectable it makes it a lot easier to filter out the not insignificant noise.
[14:49] <Ian_> Hot pink I like. Not the time of year for yellow with all the OSR still in bloom.
[14:50] <AndyEsser> Ian_: yea, unless it specifically gets sent to the flight school, or they bother to check the website, I doubt they'll see many of them
[14:50] <AndyEsser> actually spent my lunch working on a thing for automatically getting NOTAMs in the area and notifying me to them
[14:50] <AndyEsser> and changes in the weather reports (METAR)
[14:51] <Ian_> The worse ones are the long standing ones in all probability. More so if you are moving into a new area and they were generated months before. Langishing in a box file somewhere.
[14:51] <Ron_G8FJG> afk
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[14:54] <AndyEsser> imgur.com/a/Z16o6
[14:54] <Laurenceb_> richardeoin: nice work, but whats this board? http://www.bristol-seds.co.uk/assets/flights/24/cutdown_assembled_front.jpg
[14:54] <Laurenceb_> just cutdown?
[14:55] <richardeoin> yup, just cutdown
[14:55] <richardeoin> ax5243 for rx/tx
[14:55] <Laurenceb_> oh nice
[14:55] <Laurenceb_> using 2FSK or PSK?
[14:56] <Laurenceb_> that almost looks like its built for a rockoon...
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[14:56] <richardeoin> 2FSK
[14:56] <Laurenceb_> have you tested it?
[14:57] <richardeoin> yes, tested the link this morning as it flew away
[14:57] <Laurenceb_> I avoided ax5243 because the documentation was even more of a mess than silabs
[14:57] <Laurenceb_> apparently it has multiple filter settings like silabs tho
[14:57] <richardeoin> ha it's not great
[14:57] <Laurenceb_> what range did you get, what uplink settings?
[14:58] <Ian_> Ha ha, used to cut tape and radiate tafors by CW for maritime recce ac. Bcast 16 - 18wpm but used to check the tape at 50wpm in order to be able to get back to a good book. Contact was tenuous and with a typo detected I used to have to turn the Wheatstone transmitter down to 30wpm to identify the exact character at fault.
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[14:58] <richardeoin> range was ~50km, will confirm when I get a chance
[14:58] <Laurenceb_> test on the next "orbit" :P
[14:59] <richardeoin> 400 baud 2FSK anyhow
[14:59] <Laurenceb_> ok,with 10mW ?
[14:59] <richardeoin> yup
[14:59] <Laurenceb_> yagi on the ground end?
[14:59] <richardeoin> yeah just a handheld one
[15:00] <richardeoin> my ax5243 code is here https://github.com/richardeoin/ax/tree/master/sw
[15:00] <Laurenceb_> hmm should have been a little better
[15:00] <Laurenceb_> cool
[15:01] <Laurenceb_> wow thats complex
[15:01] <Laurenceb_> nice work
[15:01] <richardeoin> the ground end is a C.H.I.P. running a python script
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[15:02] <Laurenceb_> did you do a proper range test or was it just a handful of ping attempts?
[15:02] <richardeoin> definitely just a ping attempt every 10-15 minutes
[15:03] <Laurenceb_> hmm interesting
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[15:03] <Laurenceb_> prob less than 100km range then
[15:04] <Laurenceb_> whats the pull in range for the rx?
[15:04] <Laurenceb_> - for AFC
[15:06] <Ian_> I particularly valued the observation re the trade off between Python simplicity v C degree of control. It's these small insights that often help novices make meaningful decisions. Rather than joining an exclusive C or Python thought camp.
[15:06] <richardeoin> Laurenceb_: not much
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[15:07] <richardeoin> FSK modulation index is 2/3, so ~300Hz pull in??
[15:07] <Laurenceb_> ah I was going to ask if you had managed to get more "advanced" AFC to work
[15:08] <Laurenceb_> englishman was working on it aiui
[15:08] <englishman> ?
[15:08] <englishman> hi
[15:08] <Laurenceb_> dunno if its possible to do silabs style afc on ax5243?
[15:08] <englishman> similar
[15:08] <richardeoin> the ax5243 reports a "RFFREQOFFS"
[15:08] <Laurenceb_> with large pull in,did you ever work that out?
[15:08] <englishman> there are 3-4 stages of afc pullin
[15:09] <Laurenceb_> aha
[15:09] <englishman> check out the ax5043 programming manual
[15:09] <englishman> (ON confirmed identical silicon)
[15:09] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BERKOHAB - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BERKOHAB
[15:09] <Laurenceb_> ok
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[15:10] <Laurenceb_> richardeoin: so the rx filter bandwidth is only a little over 400hz ?
[15:10] <englishman> im just using code-generation-tool defaults atm, which leave an entire stage unused
[15:10] <englishman> because there are a bunch of undocumented registers and i just wanted to get shit working
[15:11] <richardeoin> Laurenceb_: up
[15:11] <richardeoin> *yup
[15:12] <richardeoin> englishman: that's sensible
[15:12] <Laurenceb_> englishman: yeah idk why you would need 4 stages lol
[15:12] <Laurenceb_> richardeoin: somewhat disappointing performance imo then
[15:12] <richardeoin> this is my somewhat misguided attempt at replacing the code gen tool https://github.com/richardeoin/ax/blob/master/sw/ax/ax_params.c
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[15:13] <Laurenceb_> miles off theoretical range, wonder if there is are interference issues
[15:13] <Laurenceb_> odd that $50sat came in not too far off theoretical performance
[15:13] <englishman> interestingly i did not get FSK or HDCP working
[15:14] <englishman> currently using 2psk and packet header
[15:14] <englishman> err HDLP
[15:14] <Laurenceb_> but $50sat used silabs iirc
[15:14] <richardeoin> HDLC?
[15:14] <Laurenceb_> I wonder if ax**** suffers from poor quality LO
[15:15] <Laurenceb_> so it pulls in interference from other bands
[15:15] <englishman> it does allow you to use external VCO
[15:15] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 037 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
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[15:15] <englishman> but i imagine the internal one should be pretty good for 2psk
[15:16] <Laurenceb_> still, with large yagi and 200bps setup I've built, range would still scale to >200km
[15:17] <Laurenceb_> simple idea I came up with was to check for packet rx errors, and keep a rolling average for each channel
[15:17] <richardeoin> englishman: are you just receiving psk?
[15:17] <Laurenceb_> then jump out of poor channels
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[15:18] <Laurenceb_> and send "pings" from the channel the 'rx' end is in, allowing ground end to tx at correct frequency
[15:18] <Laurenceb_> that at least allows narrowband interence to be avoided
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[15:22] <Ron_G8FJG> richardeoin: see you on next "lap" best was 439km a bit beyond the thin blue line RxID still working at 442km just decode at 445! bye
[15:22] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SSTAR0134 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SSTAR0134
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[15:22] <Jordan_> Hello, I am wondering if there are any limititations on bumping up the bandwith on my 434 Mhz LoRa gateway. The maximum is 250 KHz. I want to run this LoRa gateway properly and wondered if by increasing the bandwith I would exceed any legal limits?
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[15:23] <Berko> please can you approved my flight document? :-) fcb1070f331aa3466cbd9017816bbb49
[15:23] <Laurenceb_> ooh that makes me think, what was the elevation at 50km?
[15:23] <adamgreig> Berko: you were right to ask in #habhub the first time, it's done
[15:23] <Laurenceb_> I'm guessing quite low?
[15:23] <PE2BZ> Jordan_ is this HAB related ?
[15:23] <AndyEsser> Berko: you were in the right channel for that - and it now has been approved
[15:24] <Jordan_> This is HAB related. I'm running a LoRa module on the payload and in the chase car.
[15:24] <Berko> ok thank you :-)
[15:24] <PE2BZ> LoRa Gateway is the receiver. Why would you need / want / like more as 250 kHz ?
[15:25] <PE2BZ> You choose a bandwidth which corresponds with the transmission type. Telemetry only = narrow band, not much data. SSDV wider bandwidth, much data
[15:26] <Jordan_> As far as my understanding goes. Increasing my bandwith (not necessarily to 250 kHz) can supply higher quality and faster ssdv images recieved and faster checksum strings.
[15:26] <Jordan_> Does the SSDV transmission type still transmit telementry also?
[15:27] <PE2BZ> That´s true. But my experience is that larger bandwidth gives less RX range.
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[15:27] <PE2BZ> The PITS software can TX ¨only telemetry¨ if you want.
[15:27] <Jordan_> Does range still decrease a considerable amount when the payload is in LoS?
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[15:28] <Jordan_> I'm after both SSDV images and telementry strings. Would this require to LoRa modules?
[15:28] <Jordan_> 2*
[15:28] <PE2BZ> I am from the Netherlands. I can be received over about 40 km with antenna height of 27 m with mode 1 and 12 km with mode 2
[15:28] <daveake> Which country Jordan_ ?
[15:28] <Jordan_> England
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[15:29] <PE2BZ> No, you can set the amount of SSDV packets and and telemetry in the pisky.txt
[15:29] <richardeoin> Laurenceb_: it was 5-6 degrees elevation at that point
[15:29] <daveake> My reading of IR2030 is that if you want to Tx continuously (which you do) then you're limited to 25kHz not 250
[15:30] <Laurenceb_> richardeoin: aha, low range explained :P
[15:30] <daveake> 868/869 is different, which is why I use a band up there for fast ssdv
[15:30] <Laurenceb_> Fresnel zones can really screw you over
[15:30] <Jordan_> Okay thank you.
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[15:31] <daveake> You need to read IR2030 for this sort of stuff
[15:31] <daveake> But bottom line, 434 max you can get is what I've set as "mode 1" in pits/gateway
[15:31] <Jordan_> I have read IR 2030 and narrowed it down to short-range licence exempt devices @daveake
[15:31] <daveake> 869 is a different kettle of fish
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[15:33] <Jordan_> So is my approach to purchase an 868 MHz LoRa module. Run the SSDV mode to recieve 100% telementry and high quality images. And finally bump up the allocated bandwith to 25 Khz?
[15:34] <daveake> Erm not sure what you've said there
[15:34] <daveake> Regardless of frequency etc., pits interleaves telemetry and ssdv over the same radio link
[15:34] <daveake> The ratio can be controlled btw but the main thing is that one receiver will receive both
[15:35] <Jordan_> So the SSDV and telementry is down to the PITS board and LoRa just allows the PITS board to send across quicket data packets and SSDV images?
[15:35] <daveake> For 434, with the 25kHz restriction, the best pits "mode" to use is mode 1, which will tx as fast as lora can within that bandwidth
[15:36] <daveake> For 869, there's a 300kHz-wide section that allows 100% DC at 5mW. You'd need to set the frequency to the exact centre of that band
[15:36] <Jordan_> Right okay so the best PITS mode to use is 1. Is that mode configured on the LoRa gateway?
[15:36] <daveake> You set the mode at both ends, to the same value, otherwise it won't work
[15:37] <daveake> It's mode 3 iirc for high speed (250kHz bandwidth)
[15:37] <Jordan_> So I am lead to belive that I cannot use such a bandwith of 250 MHz
[15:37] <Jordan_> khz*
[15:37] <daveake> MHz no you can't
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[15:37] <Jordan_> Sorry about that.
[15:37] <daveake> 260kHz you can in part of the 869 area
[15:38] <daveake> Remember that high bandwidth results in poorer range, so you'll need to be closer to the payload to get anything
[15:38] <Jordan_> And is 869 still licence exempt?
[15:38] <russss> you could probably use 250MHz in the mm-wave bands ;)
[15:38] <daveake> See IR2030
[15:39] <Jordan_> So a better approach would be 869 > 434 and 868? If I wanted 100% Tx and higher quality SSDV images.
[15:39] <daveake> iirc it's 869.70 - 860, but do check
[15:39] <daveake> er 870
[15:40] <daveake> You can do 869.whatever_it_is and also 434.something
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[15:41] <Jordan_> Am I correct to believe that 869 is faster Tx and higher quality SSDV images?
[15:42] <russss> there are advantages and disadvantages to both
[15:42] <russss> such that one isn't clearly better than the other
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[15:43] <russss> (from a purely theoretical/regulatory standpoint at least)
[15:43] <Jordan_> Okay I will see what I can come up with.
[15:43] <Jordan_> Thanks @daveake
[15:43] <daveake> Speed depends (linearly) on bandwidth
[15:43] <russss> LoRA on 868 seems to be the best choice in practice if you want decent transmission rates.
[15:44] <Jordan_> Noted russss thank you.
[15:44] <PE2BZ> would it be right to say that there are less 868 receivers in the UK than 434 ?
[15:44] <daveake> One of the 869 bands allows 300kHz bandwidth so you can, other things being equal get approx 12x the htroughput
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[15:44] <Jordan_> And that is all under legal limits daveake?
[15:45] <daveake> Image quality is independent of that, but obviously high quality / high resolution needs higher throughout otherwise you'll still be sending the same image at the end of the flight that you were at the start :)
[15:45] <daveake> yes ofc
[15:45] <daveake> that's what I'm saying
[15:45] <daveake> PE2BZ: Yes, far few 868 receivers
[15:45] <daveake> fewer
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[15:46] <Jordan_> Right okay, so 300 kHz bandwith can ensure that I will recieve higher quality images in really quick succesion?
[15:47] <daveake> Well no, because you;ll lose more packets too ... wider bandwidth means the same power is spread over a wider spectrum, so your SNR suffers
[15:47] <daveake> And with fewer listeners to fill in the gaps, you're more likely to lose something
[15:47] <PE2BZ> I would say you have to replace the word ¨will¨ with ¨can¨. All circumstances (antenna, cable, receiver location) have to be as good as possible.
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[15:48] <Jordan_> Right so I guess with that I have to put out a few test launches and find a happy balance between a higher bandwith output and a decent SNR
[15:50] <PE2BZ> That would be a good start. Share your settings to the channel, to ukhas groups and get the attention of more listening stations. They all add to your received images.
[15:50] Action: PE2BZ is afc away for cooking
[15:51] <Jordan_> Okay will do, thanks alot @daveake and @PE2BZ for your help. Have a lovely evening!
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[16:16] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03GKCNST - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=GKCNST
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[16:25] <Ian_> I think that Jordan didn't realise that increasing the rx bandwidth is a bit like having a 1:1 conversation in a large room and then trying to have the same conversation in the same room when it's full of other people talking.
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[16:26] <Ian_> That and on the tx anology of having lots of butter on your toast and then expecting the same experience when the area of the toast slice is increased to the biblical proportions of a football field. It's gonna take a load more butter, for sure. :)
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[16:47] Nick change: SopaXorzTaker -> SegWitXT
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[17:03] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CALLSIGN123_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CALLSIGN123_chase
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[18:47] <Tim> How do I get my balloon on your tracker?
[18:49] <Upu> Hey Tim have a read of this http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=1732
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[18:55] <Tim> I ahve already launched several balloons using my call sign and APRPs.if to track. I do not see how I get my callsign on https://tracker.habhub.org
[18:55] <Tim> does it just tack all aprs?
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[18:59] <F5MVO> What is your callsign ?
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[20:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RPF-C2 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RPF-C2
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[22:07] <Tim> my callsign is KM4EFW, will be using -11 for balloon and -9 for chase car1.
[22:09] <Laurenceb_> richardeoin: interesting photos of the cutdown test, looks like a v good antenna setup
[22:09] <Tim> this url is quite cool and would be easier for the middle school kids to use then APRRs if. I just need to know how to have the url track my balloon
[22:09] <Laurenceb_> do you have a ping broadcast from the cutdown board so you know where to tune?
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[22:12] <mfa298> Tim: I think the aprs importer should import aprs balloons if they look like a balloon and are over a certain altitude
[22:13] <mfa298> you may also be able to ask for it to be manually added in #habhub (although that may take a while for an admin to appear)
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[22:28] <Tim> planning to launch 18May
[22:28] <Tim> can I get the chase car added as well?
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[23:01] Nick change: kim27` -> kim27
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[23:04] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IK8SUT-11 after 035 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IK8SUT-11
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[23:21] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03YPADSONDE after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YPADSONDE
[00:00] --- Tue May 9 2017