highaltitude.log.20170507

[00:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03N4JWW-11_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N4JWW-11_chase
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[06:50] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SV3CIX-12 after 0311 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SV3CIX-12
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[07:23] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
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[07:35] <Darkside> hm
[07:36] <Darkside> anyone know if the author of this hangs out in here? https://github.com/rs1729/RS
[07:38] <PE2BZ> Darkside I never seen him here. He is on a German Radiosonde forum.
[07:38] <Darkside> ok
[07:39] <PE2BZ> http://www.fingers-welt.de in the topic Spielzeug von Himmel
[07:40] <Darkside> difficult for me as i don't speak german!
[07:40] <Darkside> oh well
[07:41] <Darkside> wanted to discuss pairing his decoder with a potentially better modem
[07:41] <Darkside> i've forked his repository and have written some automation utilities
[07:41] <Darkside> will attack the modem idea anotehr time
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[09:15] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03$$MancBalloonian_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=%24%24MancBalloonian_chase
[09:17] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Rubby_ducky_chase_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Rubby_ducky_chase_chase
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[09:52] <pb0ahx> GM all
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[09:53] <pb0ahx> !flights
[09:53] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Current flights: 03Mancunian Balloonian 10(9989)
[09:53] <pb0ahx> !payload 9989
[09:53] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Payload 03Mancunian Balloonian 10(9989) 03$$Manc - 03Primary - 03434.25 MHz USB 03RTTY 300/600Hz ASCII-8 none 2
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[10:42] <M0RJX> sssss!flights
[10:43] <M0RJX> opps
[10:43] <M0RJX> !flights
[10:43] <SpacenearUS> 03M0RJX: Current flights: 03Mancunian Balloonian 10(9989)
[10:43] <M0RJX> !dial 9989
[10:43] <SpacenearUS> 03M0RJX: Latest dials for 03Mancunian Balloonian 10(9989): 03434.242 MHz
[10:45] <fsphil> snake on the keyboard?
[10:47] <M0RJX> fsphil, Yeah
[10:47] <M0RJX> Two keyboard problem
[10:47] <M0RJX> is there a payload id for the Mancunian Balloonian
[10:48] <M0RJX> is that 9989 looking for the dials for fldigi
[10:49] <M0RJX> Scratch that it's easy with a planned flight ! allset
[10:50] <M0RJX> is there an option for dl-fldigi to allow me to have a full screen rather than a fixed hight screen
[10:54] <M0RJX> humm you cant make the waterfall bigger anyway !
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[11:10] <M0RJX> Any Mancunian Balloonian's on here today? I assume launch is still scheduled for 14:00 BST
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[11:57] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KF5ZBW after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KF5ZBW
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[12:12] <gonzo_> !flights
[12:12] <SpacenearUS> 03gonzo_: Current flights: 03Mancunian Balloonian 10(9989)
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[12:38] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03Manc after 0316 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Manc
[12:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh dear its near anothe rpub pre-launch!
[12:44] <daveake> that always goes well
[12:55] <M0RJX> Have we any news that launch is going ahead as planned?
[12:56] <M0RJX> daveake, did you have a play with those changes yet?
[12:56] <daveake> no not yet having a day off
[12:56] <daveake> being the w/e and all
[12:56] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03W3EAX-12 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W3EAX-12
[12:56] <M0RJX> lol I'm on holiday in lanza next week
[12:57] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03W3EAX-8 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=W3EAX-8
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[12:57] <M0RJX> I think I can get rtty decoding on the gateway :-)
[12:57] <M0RJX> Thats my plan for next week.
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[12:59] <M0RJX> haha in satellite mode you can se their car at the launch site :-)
[12:59] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HB9FBK-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HB9FBK-11
[12:59] <M0RJX> Looks like a live feed ...
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[13:06] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03icarusIV after 0315 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=icarusIV
[13:07] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HB9HFJ-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HB9HFJ-11
[13:08] <M0RJX> power cables to look out for
[13:08] <M0RJX> !dial
[13:08] <SpacenearUS> 03M0RJX: Can't find a flight doc matching your query
[13:09] <M0RJX> !dial 9989
[13:09] <SpacenearUS> 03M0RJX: Latest dials for 03Mancunian Balloonian 10(9989): 03434.242 MHz
[13:10] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD0FYZ - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD0FYZ
[13:19] <M0RJX> !dial 9989
[13:19] <SpacenearUS> 03M0RJX: Latest dials for 03Mancunian Balloonian 10(9989): 03434.250599 MHz
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[13:29] <M0RJX> Weird what was that ?
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[13:30] <M0RJX> 4 sec of interference
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[14:41] <jerry> !dial Manc
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[14:41] <jerry> !flights
[14:41] <SpacenearUS> 03jerry: Current flights: 03Mancunian Balloonian 10(9989)
[14:41] <jerry> !dial 9989
[14:42] <SpacenearUS> 03jerry: Latest dials for 03Mancunian Balloonian 10(9989): 03434.65 MHz, 434.251 MHz, 440.262 MHz, 434.2505 MHz, 434.250515 MHz, 434.2496 MHz, 434.24873 MHz, 434.2499 MHz, 434.25 MHz, 434.25098 MHz, 434.1 MHz
[14:42] <SpacenearUS> 03jerry: Latest dials for 03Mancunian Balloonian 10(9989): 03434.251 MHz, 434.65 MHz, 434.2505 MHz, 434.250515 MHz, 434.2496 MHz, 434.2499 MHz, 434.2504 MHz, 434.25 MHz, 434.25098 MHz, 434.1 MHz, 434.24873 MHz
[14:51] <M0RJX> 30K
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[15:03] <M0RJX> burst?
[15:04] <pb0ahx> 34.4km nice
[15:09] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KARB after 037 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KARB
[15:12] <pb0ahx> TEAM MANC mni tnx for flight was a good one for for me nice tnx
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[15:22] <adamgreig> fun spaceplane X37B is on the ground again https://twitter.com/SpaceflightNow/status/861213438231576576
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[15:53] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD2LAS-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD2LAS-11
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[16:30] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03UBSEDS22 after 0312 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS22
[16:46] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03$$MancBalloonian_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=%24%24MancBalloonian_chase
[16:48] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03UBSEDS24 after 033 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS24
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[17:02] <digitalboy> Hello, I'm trying to link an Arduino to the NTX2B TX, I'm following the steps at this link: https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2 including the circuit scheme, we're receiving the signal through a Kenwood TH-D7 tuned to the TX frequency (434.375 MHz) which is not provided by USB mode. UKHAS guide specifies "ensuring that you have the mode set to USB". Is that a necessary feature on the receiver side? The
[17:02] <digitalboy> key issue is how to decode the signal, narrowing down this means finding a proper link to the PC audio interface. On the radio side I've plugged a 2.5 mm TRS (stereo, 3-poles all connected). On the pc side I've plugged a 3.5 mm TRS(stereo, 3-poles all connected). I'm not sure if this is the right way to link those devices. According to the guide settings on fldigi (and dl-fldigi) we should get two clear yellow
[17:02] <digitalboy> narrow-bands surrounded by a blue background. We get a confused wide yellow band surrounded by a blue background instead. Then the sample message ("RTTY TEST BEACON RTTY TEST BEACON") isn't decoded but we receive random symbols/characters instead. To conclude s/n is much lower (and negative too) than the sample found on the UKHAS guide.
[17:08] <daveake> You need USB mode
[17:08] <daveake> So the TH-D7 is useless for this
[17:21] <digitalboy> Thank you very much Dave, much appreciated! Are there any other cheap receivers that you recommend in the 50 euros price range?
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[17:22] <digitalboy> P.S. Why is USB mode necessary (in layman terms)? =
[17:23] <PE2BZ> USB is the upper side band of a single side band mode. You can transmit rtty for example 1 kHz of audio range. FM modulation uses FM demodulation and is 8000 - 12000 hz wide
[17:25] <PE2BZ> Perhaps better readable here: http://www.dx27.net/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=633 ?
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[17:28] <daveake> It's a bit odd, as thetransmitted signal is FM
[17:29] <daveake> USB at the receiver converts the 0's and 1's into 2 frequencies instead of 2 voltae levels
[17:29] <daveake> Making it a lot easier to decode on a PC
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[17:32] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03WB9SKY-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WB9SKY-11
[17:33] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC9LHW-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC9LHW-11
[17:42] <digitalboy> thank you very much dave, very kind! By the way are any ukhas meetings coming soon?
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[17:54] <mfa298> digitalboy: there's a few radios people have used listed on https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide#components some you might find on popular auction sites reasonably cheaply
[17:55] <mfa298> there's also the rtl-sdr dongles which you can get cheaply that are certainly good enough for testing (and some have used on flights although they might not be ideal)
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[18:02] <daveake> Be careful with some of the RTL SDRs ... they drif like buggery
[18:02] <daveake> http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=2011
[18:09] <tweetBot> @daveake: Yesterday's Monmouth School launch of 4 high altitude balloons https://t.co/lt7EmYAwwo #ukhas
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[18:40] <M0RJX> daveake, nice video
[18:40] <M0RJX> Shame they all ended up in the drink bar 1
[18:40] <M0RJX> what was the mission
[18:50] <daveake> jakeio's school launch
[18:50] <daveake> I went down to help track/chase
[18:51] <jakeio> Yes, we had fun, we knew the risks, the school would've been pretty annoyed if I called it off at the last minute.
[18:51] <jakeio> So, oh well!
[18:51] <jakeio> Reduces my recovery rate from 100% to 50% (5/10 flights).
[18:52] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SV3CIX-12 after 037 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SV3CIX-12
[18:54] <daveake> Losing 4 in one go is probably some sort of record :p
[18:55] <swaledale_SteveJ> was well worth the bridge toll to see tens of people peering into the water!
[18:56] <swaledale_SteveJ> bad luck jakeio, you need decent conditions to be in with a shout from over there
[18:56] <swaledale_SteveJ> everyone looked in good spirits despite the loss, so alls well
[18:57] <jakeio> Yeah, they all had fun. It was exciting enough, maybe we'll get one through the post in a few days but somehow I doubt it.
[18:57] <swaledale_SteveJ> it has been known
[18:57] <jakeio> It was quite funny that we were able to watch it bobbing down the Severn!
[18:57] <jakeio> Though, I didn't see it myself.
[18:58] <daveake> Pro-tip: land in the sea at low tide :)
[18:58] <swaledale_SteveJ> I was tracking from the other side of the Severn, pretty sure i saw one come down
[18:58] <swaledale_SteveJ> ha yes low tide!
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[19:49] <Vaizki> all 4 ended up in the drink?
[19:50] <daveake> yup
[19:50] <daveake> one may have just made land but they couldn't get to it
[19:52] <daveake> That one didn't have GPS and was starting to behave like it was wet, so I suspect it hit the water
[20:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03K9ADX-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K9ADX-11
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[20:57] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-3 after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-3
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[21:28] <augustin> Hi everyone!
[21:29] <augustin> I have a (basic) question !
[21:30] <augustin> Can I build my own radio station to communicate with my NTX emitter ?
[21:37] <Geoff-G8DHE> You mean to receive the tracker transmissions, yes https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker
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[21:43] <augustin> Thank you
[21:44] <augustin> But when I see your link, I'm a bit... drowned under all of this technical things....
[21:45] <augustin> I ask you that here tonight because I would like to add a relay into the HabHub's tracker, to be sure that everything will go right...
[21:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> The hobby requires that you learn to do it well. Not much call for such custom items otherwise.
[21:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> what do you expect the "relay" to achieve ?
[21:47] <augustin> I explain me. I would like to have solution, that work the Tracker, to have a User Interface, Graphical Interface, but based on strong hardware. And I see on the map that in my country (Belgium), there is no radio on the ground... So I'm note sure if the signal is power enough for my balloon, that I would launch from Belgium...
[21:49] <Geoff-G8DHE> lenty of Dutch, French and German stations around you to receive the required "distributed listening" aspect.
[21:49] <Geoff-G8DHE> Plenty*
[21:50] <augustin> Yes, but they are so far from me..... 200 km... The radio stations and my small NTX module are power enough for that ?
[21:51] <augustin> (I'm novice :p Don't judge me :p)
[21:51] <mfa298> when it's up in the air the ntx2 will travel a long way, the horizon is the only real limit
[21:51] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes, its why we use them! Have you watched any flights on the map yet ? A flight today in NE England was being received all across the continent
[21:52] <mfa298> assuming you've built the payload well (i.e. you have a decent antenna)
[21:53] <augustin> Do you have specific advise for me to build correctly my payload, and what about the hardware ?
[21:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> There are a couple of flights tomorrow, watch the map and see where they lines are drawn to the receiving stations
[21:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> !flights
[21:53] <SpacenearUS> 03Geoff-G8DHE: Current flights: 03Mancunian Balloonian 10(9989)
[21:53] <mfa298> augustin: you might find https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide a useful read as well
[21:53] <augustin> advises *
[21:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> Are OK after 00:00 tonight they show up!
[21:54] <mfa298> that covers a lot of the detail of receiving a baloon
[21:54] <augustin> In a few minutes so! We will see that in real time...
[21:54] <augustin> Thank you mfa298 for your link :-)
[21:54] <Geoff-G8DHE> Time on here is normally UTC as to many borders/timezones to work with!
[21:55] <mfa298> also the receivers on the map only show up if they've been active recently (in the last 24 hours), you may well be able to find more people to help track by contacting local amateur radio clubs etc.
[21:56] <augustin> Is there something like the UKHAS in Belgium or France ?
[21:56] <Geoff-G8DHE> There are some small specific clubs mainly for Sondes UKHAS is the central point
[21:58] <mfa298> there are people that track in France, Netherlands, Germany
[22:00] <mfa298> If you look at HB9HFJ-11 on the map now, you can see the sort of area it might be receivable from, it's curretly at 10km and covers a large area (the blue circle is where the balloon would appear on the horizon)
[22:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> 10Km is quite low as well 30-40Km is normal burst height so the range is even larger
[22:02] <mfa298> Imagine that was over Belgium, it would be receivable at that altitude by the stations you can see on the map in Germany and Netherlands, as well as some of the UK
[22:02] <mfa298> the range will decrease when it's lower so it's important you can track it as well (i.e. you need to be near it as it comes down)
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[22:03] <Laurenceb_> !whereis HIRFW-3
[22:03] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb_: 03HIRFW-3 was over 03Philippine Sea 10(16.81441,143.12881) at 0314332 meters about 0314 minutes ago
[22:06] <augustin> "you need to be near it as it comes down" That's something I don't understand... Why should I be near it ? There is a tracking system....
[22:07] <Geoff-G8DHE> When it gets low in height the range is reduced a LOT hence you need to be close to get exact point
[22:07] <Geoff-G8DHE> Here is map of receiving staions over time https://philcrump.co.uk/ukhas_listeners/
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[22:09] <mfa298> also the tracking system isn't automatic or gaurenteed, it's just people like us who are interested in tring to receive baloons
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[22:12] <augustin> Is it possible to get the email address from the guy behind "Manc" ? (seen on the tracker map)
[22:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> There is a mail group associated as well https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/ukhas
[22:12] <mfa298> On the tracker map, if you zoom out so you can see HB9HJF-11 (Swizerland) and SV3CIX-12 (Greece) you'll see the blue (0 degree horizon) is much smaller for SV3CIX-12 as it's much loewr (3.3km rather than 10km)
[22:13] <augustin> And for Geoff, on your last link, I see on the map, an antenna not far from my home. But she doesn't appear on the tracker map of habhub. What does it mean ? She is not available ?
[22:14] <augustin> Oké thank you mfa !
[22:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> The stations come and go, map only shows current stations left running in last 24hours
[22:14] <mfa298> when the balloon comes down to land you'll need to be within a few km to have any useful idea of where it lands, if you're 50km away you might not get any position data from it below 1km which might mean a large search area with no data to go on (until you get close)
[22:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> When a flight is announced on the message board above and a Flight Document is generated on HABITAT then stations available will appear close to the time.
[22:17] <augustin> And is there something like a very powerful buzzer but who doesn't cost anything ? something I can put into my payload, and with a 3D accelerometer say "When you don't feal anything then power on, and make some noize" ?
[22:18] <Geoff-G8DHE> if it lands in a tree it will be swinging about, idea has bee tried doesn't work well:-)
[22:19] <mfa298> I'm not sure a loud buzzer that's not controllable is advisable, imagine one landed outside out house in a tall tree where it's not accessible and was buzzing loundly for several days!
[22:19] <Geoff-G8DHE> also needs lots of batteruy power which means weight to fly, weight is VERY important you don't waste it!
[22:20] <mfa298> If you're close enoguh to hear a buzzer you're close enough to get telemtry from the payload to get an accurate gps position to find it.
[22:20] <daveake> I used a piezo buzzer once. It landed in a garden, 10m from a chap whose age precluded him hearing the whistle!
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[22:21] <daveake> But yeah, buzzer pretty much useless.
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[22:22] <augustin> I searched "Manc" in the Google Group, and... nothing... is it normal ? Where can I found this information ?
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[22:22] <mfa298> augustin: step one of doign a good payload: Ensure you have the ability to receive and decode the telemetry (you need that to be able to test the transmitter works *and* to get the telemetry from nearby as it comes down.
[22:23] <mfa298> step two: contact local amatur radio clubs nearer the launch and get them interested
[22:23] <Geoff-G8DHE> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ukhas/5ILw4VHPWOw
[22:23] <mfa298> step three: get the flight doc ready, post to the ukhas list
[22:23] <mfa298> step four: launch
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[22:24] <mfa298> for step 2, nearer the launch means 1-2 months before hand - and be prepared to demo how to track (i.e. you need a mostly working payload and ability to receive it yourself)
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[22:28] <augustin> And for the hardware I should use ? NTX2....... module is ok ? Nothing easier, better, I don't know ?
[22:29] <mfa298> augustin: also I wonder what the purpose of contacting the team behind Manc are, you've had responses here in the last hour from people who've tracked lots of flights as well as a prolific launcher
[22:29] <Geoff-G8DHE> You need to understand more about the whole system before worrying about which components to choose!
[22:30] <mfa298> ntx2 with an arduino or pi zero is probably one of the easier setups. But as Geoff-G8DHE says, you need to understand how it all works.
[22:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> https://store.uputronics.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=62
[22:31] <mfa298> regulars here can try and help with that, but you need to do the work as well.
[22:32] <augustin> Is this not good ? https://store.uputronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=61&product_id=60
[22:32] <augustin> (Is cheaper, and I'm student ;-) )
[22:32] <augustin> It's cheaper *
[22:32] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes its fine, but it depends on what you want to achieve and do, don't choose the transmitter before you understand the system!
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[22:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> You could use LoRa or APRS in which case NTX2 is not what you need!
[22:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> https://store.uputronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=61&product_id=69
[22:33] <mfa298> augustin: remember with the NTX2B you also need to add in something like an arduino and a GPS module and write the code for it
[22:33] <augustin> Is there a bible, or complete topic about that famous system ?
[22:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> https://store.uputronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=61&product_id=63
[22:34] <augustin> I seen something on Instructable about that, and the guy used the NTX module
[22:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> Thw Wiki is the bible you have to work thru it and search for subjects as you understand more
[22:34] <mfa298> for how to do it, the simple advice is read the wiki and daveake's blog, then ask questions.
[22:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> https://ukhas.org.uk/start
[22:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://www.daveakerman.com/
[22:36] <augustin> Ok thank you everybody for you help, advices and time! :-) I will read all of this and try a lot of things... Thank you for your time :-)
[22:36] <Geoff-G8DHE> See you soon keep the channel open and ask your questions
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[22:38] <mfa298> cheapest approach might well be an arduino, ntx2b and gps. There's some guides on the wiki about arduino and gps as well as arduino and ntx2b. You then need to add the glue to join both together (getting the relevant bits from gps and sending them via the ntx2b)
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[22:39] <mfa298> an sdr based receiver setup with an rtl-sdr is a cheap way to test - I'm not sure I'd rely on it for tracking where there's less of a receiver network to help though - you might want a better receiver for the actual launch
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[22:43] <Laurenceb_> how google plan to reduce the number of balloons for loon
[22:43] <Laurenceb_> https://arxiv.org/pdf/1508.06527.pdf
[22:44] <Laurenceb_> doesnt quite make sense to me - doesnt work everywhere or at all times of year
[22:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> complicated!
[22:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> tethers Km's in length!
[22:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> 12Km's!!
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> thats not how google will do it
[22:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> I hope two never get close, unpicking that will be fun!
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> they just plan to change altitude
[22:47] <Laurenceb_> but they will use the windshear to try to prevent balloons flying too far over the ocean
[22:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> Page 6 they propse 12Km tether from airship to Tug
[22:49] <Laurenceb_> yeah that stands zero chance of being built
[22:50] <Laurenceb_> but loon is using the same principle
[22:50] <Laurenceb_> 17 to 24km wind shear
[22:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh ah so m uch better only 7Km's long ;-)
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[00:00] --- Mon May 8 2017