highaltitude.log.20170505

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[06:03] <PE2BZ> !flights
[06:03] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: There are no flights currently :(
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[06:28] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BK-Ostvest2 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BK-Ostvest2
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[09:11] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ILHAB_L1 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ILHAB_L1
[09:12] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ILHAB-1d - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ILHAB-1d
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[09:21] <kokey> right, I never really thought about how I'm going to receive LoRa for testing
[09:22] <kokey> ah, I can use one of my esp8266 modules
[09:35] <kokey> maybe not, could be a hassle
[09:54] <gonzo_> are you not goping to need a full lora rx station for a launbch anyway?
[09:56] <kokey> yeah, that too
[09:57] <kokey> ok so it's either get another pi zero or get an arduino since I seem to have none of those around any more
[09:58] <kokey> I do like daveake's arduino pro mini lora gateway
[10:00] <daveake> That's the cheapest to make. I have a bluetooth version too and have some Android code to work with it, but that needs finishing
[10:01] <kokey> yeah I might as well keep an arduino toolstack around since if I want to do a foil balloon thing I'm probably not going to want to use an rpi zero
[10:02] <kokey> LoRa looks like it would be good for a BBS carried by a balloon ;-)
[10:04] <Vaizki> high altitude nethack server
[10:05] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03GGBOIS - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=GGBOIS
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[10:12] <pb0ahx> !flights
[10:12] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: There are no flights currently :(
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[10:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BOFH - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BOFH
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[10:59] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
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[11:01] <buzz53> We want to get our PITS payload weight down for future flights
[11:02] <buzz53> The huge GPS antenna is an obvious target. Does anybody know if it's essential?
[11:02] <buzz53> We tried a simple whip which sort-of worked but acquisition was very flaky
[11:02] <buzz53> Had the impression it was interference from the PI A+.
[11:02] <buzz53> Reading up it seems the camdera (esp model 1) is very noisy
[11:02] <buzz53> Ideally we'd like to use a chip antenna. Anybody tried this?
[11:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> https://store.uputronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=60_64&product_id=72
[11:04] <garymortimer> what geoff said
[11:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> Which aerial are you using currently then that weighs so much ?
[11:06] <buzz53> It's the standard patch antenna that comes with PITS, weighs 55g
[11:07] <buzz53> Evn includes a magnet, as I just discovered when it stuck to my filing cabinet!
[11:08] <buzz53> We've used a simlar breakout board to Geoff's suggestion with an Arduino, seemed OK
[11:08] <daveake> pits is designed for reliability not lightweight; that GPS antenna was chosen so it can be put outside of the payload case away from cameras etc so it'll easily get a lock regardless of the crap people might fly
[11:09] <daveake> pits zero is a fair bit lighter
[11:09] <daveake> or DIY e.g. https://twitter.com/daveake/status/837421534062985216
[11:09] <buzz53> The worry with the PI is that it seems to interfere with the GPS
[11:11] <buzz53> Dave, interesting link thanks. So the pi zero with chip antenna is no problem?
[11:11] <daveake> Not flown it but it works here
[11:13] <buzz53> Have you used the pi camera with it, that may to be the issue? Model 1 worse than 2, I have read.
[11:14] <daveake> that's a model 2 in there. Don't see why there should be a difference between cameras
[11:15] <daveake> length of camera cable would be the biggest factor
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[11:19] <buzz53> Interesting, will need to do some more experimentation. Have now got a pi zero to replace the Model A
[11:25] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Manc - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Manc
[12:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03pd0cif _chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=pd0cif%20_chase
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[12:14] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03PD0CIF _chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=PD0CIF%20%20_chase
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[12:54] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KK6PNN-5 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KK6PNN-5
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[14:42] <Laurenceb_> !whereis HIRFW-3
[14:42] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb_: 03HIRFW-3 was over 03Philippine Sea 10(14.48107,128.96215) at 0313999 meters about 032 days ago
[14:42] <Laurenceb_> !whereis HIRFW-6
[14:42] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb_: 03HIRFW-6 was over 03North Atlantic Ocean 10(21.77274,-64.62119) at 0313887 meters about 0312 minutes ago
[14:48] <aadamson> ha, happens to the best of them - http://stratocat.com.ar/news20170502-e.htm
[14:48] <aadamson> (and costs a lot more... :) )
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[14:54] <PE2BZ> Ian_ are you in ?
[14:57] <Ian_> I am now
[14:58] <Laurenceb_> aadamson: I was looking at the Ghost project, looks like most of their envelopes that were still up after about 1 year were failing due to UV damage
[14:59] <Laurenceb_> and the record setting envelope probably spent lots of time in antarctic winter
[14:59] <Ian_> ping PE2BZ
[14:59] <Laurenceb_> it'd be nice to find figures on UV aging of nylon versus pet
[14:59] <PE2BZ> Hi Ian. You have been busy with bees haven´t you ?
[15:00] <Ian_> Yes, but not today.
[15:00] <Ian_> They are doing well and the colonies are growing like Topsy
[15:00] <PE2BZ> Did you ever had the idea to make a counter to ¨know¨ how many bees are going in / out each day ?
[15:01] <Ian_> In a word, NO.
[15:01] <Laurenceb_> sounds like a problem for Rpi zero w
[15:01] <Ian_> Sounds like a bit of a bottleneck
[15:02] <PE2BZ> Ok. A friend wanted to make something for a humblebee colony so I thougt I ask first :-)
[15:02] <Ian_> Mk I eyeball gives a bit of a clue - no need for specifics
[15:03] <Ian_> I guess that bumble bee colonies are a lot smaller than honey bees and an entrance through a short tube would be less of an impediment.
[15:05] <PE2BZ> The entrance tube, two ¨light switches¨ and in / out direction are the idea but he has to make the software. I thought, if it´s out there, I just ask ;-)
[15:05] <Ian_> Honey bees are naughty and are likely to wax up things to make them unreliable. Weighing is one method, but it's fraught with practical difficulties.
[15:06] <Ian_> I have thought about it many times, but have no bees in the garden these days . . . XYL mandated that!
[15:08] <Ian_> Multiple entrance chutes; made from a 3 - 4cm width of twin wall polycarbonate sheet.
[15:10] <PE2BZ> He seems to have only one entrance / exit. Should not be difficult. I will give it a try.
[15:10] <Ian_> I used that as a vertical entrance, which was big enough for workers and drones alike, but when it came to the bees throwing out dead in the winter it 'could' become blocked
[15:11] <Ian_> Slap the side of the hive and see how fast you can count . . .
[15:12] <PE2BZ> ;-)
[15:13] <Ian_> It's an interesting problem, made more complex by the social aspect of bees who are happy to dither, gather and do the unexpected at the drop of a hat. I'm told that they don't read the books, so don't always conform to expectations.
[15:14] <PE2BZ> So it´s not only the XYL to keep in mind ;-)
[15:14] <Ian_> A useful real life introduction to meaningful instrumentation and the issues that can arise.
[15:14] <Ian_> Not just the XYL, mostly all the bees are YL also.
[15:15] <PE2BZ> You´ve got a point... It´s all about the XYL and the bees
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[15:16] <Ian_> Predictability is a hugely variable commodity. All women have a different way of thinking it appears and bees conform to that model.
[15:17] <PE2BZ> Some women follow the model of the bumblebee ;-)
[15:18] <Ian_> Bumble bees are relatively simple. I guess that you must use bumble bees in your industry for pollenation?
[15:18] <Ian_> Twin wall polycarb may be too small for bumbles
[15:20] <PE2BZ> That´s indeed the use.
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[15:33] <SpeedEvil> I thought a ~9.5mm square hole was about right
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[15:36] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KD0SCL-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD0SCL-11
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[15:53] <Ian_> Yes, good honeybee space, for sure.
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[15:53] <kokey> counting bees sounds like a good application for one of the deep learning libraries
[15:54] <kokey> that said I could do with a bee or two since I've been using cotton swabs to pollinate my chilli plants
[15:56] <Ian_> You obviously need a larger chilli patch. Grow them and they will come :)
[15:59] <nick_> I wonder if you can ID each bee.
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[16:00] <SpeedEvil> nick_: RFIB
[16:02] <russss> people have used radar transponders to track bees
[16:02] <SpeedEvil> Transponders, or diodes.
[16:03] <SpeedEvil> A teeny diode die, and a couple of dipoles.
[16:03] <russss> yeah, that
[16:03] <russss> I'm trying to dig up the paper
[16:03] <russss> http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/file?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0160333&type=printable
[16:04] <SpeedEvil> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4758184/ - sort of related. ~3W*25ms will kill a mosquito
[16:04] <SpeedEvil> (LASER)
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[16:29] <Ian_> With a foraging life of approximately three weeks out of a total of around six weeks, you may be hard pressed to keep up in a production sized hive . . .
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[16:31] <Ian_> How many wee dipoles does it take to choke a swallow that might be knocking off a few of your instrumented beed.
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[17:16] <PE2BZ> SpeedEvil nice :-)
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[17:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SSTAR0126 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SSTAR0126
[17:21] <Ian_> Most prolific pollenator . . . the mosquito. Even the bad guys have their uses!
[17:22] <SpeedEvil> Ian_: The ones that bite humans are a tiny, tiny fraction of mosquitos.
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[17:22] <SpeedEvil> In their whole range, there are several other species of mosquito.
[17:23] <Ian_> Women again though :)
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[17:23] <SpeedEvil> The mosquito that butes humans and causes malaria does not use that for food, it eats plants normally, and only blood to lay eggs
[17:28] <Ian_> The Jurgen Tautz book, The buzz about bees, is a very enlightening read and doubtless since it's publication in 2009 the science has moved on further.
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[17:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03N0N_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N0N_chase
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[18:14] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC9ZMJ-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC9ZMJ-11
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[18:35] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BSS5 after 0321 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BSS5
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[19:15] <Reb-SM0ULC> SpeedEvil: would be popular in some parts of sweden. insane levels of mosquitos...
[19:19] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03AAAPRS-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=AAAPRS-11
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[20:53] <jakeio> Is anybody able to approve my message on UKHAS google groups?
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[00:00] --- Sat May 6 2017