highaltitude.log.20170406

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[00:42] <userscott2> Thanks MFA. I'm using a payload config document already, but no flight documents of course. I kinda thought they would show up when I switched to my Payload config. Maybe I'm confused!
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[05:09] <PE2BZ> !flights
[05:09] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Current flights: 03Maxus 9 10(591d), 03Barc201 10(e613), 03Barc202 10(0aaa)
[05:12] <PE2BZ> SCC livestream for Maxus 9 launch http://esrange.insupport.se/
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[05:44] <ben___> Is HabHub the best way to track an APRS HAB?
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[06:15] <mfa298> userscott2: you may want to look at http://habitat.habhub.org/logtail/ when your uploading strings, last night it was suggesting there wasn't a payload doc matching what you're uploading
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[07:39] <hyde00001> Hey PE2BZ - you suggested changing my flight frequencies on Sunday, thanks for suggestion. I can do that.
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[07:41] <hyde00001> I have bigger issues at the moment though - landing predictions during my permitted NOTAM window are not currently favourable - too close to Luton airport for my comfort...so I suspect I will have to cancel Sunday... Grr
[07:43] <gonzo_> weather is quite slippy stuff. |Just keep an eye on it
[07:45] <hyde00001> quite!
[07:46] <fsphil> avoiding luton just makes sense
[07:47] <fsphil> (I'm sure it's a lovely place, I've just only ever seen the airport)
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[07:56] <hyde00001> Ghastly airport, I fly from it all the time. I'm sure It would be enhanced with a balloon landing...
[07:57] <AndyEsser> fsphil: don't be so sure
[07:58] <cm13g09> AndyEsser: Isn't it supposed to be up there with Milton Keynes and, err, Basingstoke (apologies to anyone who lives in either of those places)
[07:58] <AndyEsser> indeed
[07:58] <AndyEsser> and Croydon
[07:59] <gonzo_> there are lots of them
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[08:42] <PE2BZ> hyde0001 tnx for changing frequency. Hope your landing predictions improve !
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[08:52] <pb0ahx> !flights
[08:52] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Current flights: 03Maxus 9 10(591d), 03Barc201 10(e613), 03Barc202 10(0aaa)
[09:08] <PE2BZ> pb0ahx gm Herman. Uccle seams to be on air
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[09:14] <PE2BZ> and off air within 7 minutes
[09:19] <pb0ahx> belgie ?
[09:22] Nick change: pb0ahx -> PB0AHX
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[09:37] <Sahand> does anybody have some experience with the SRB MX145 Transmitter and an arduino for radio transmission?
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[10:01] <PB0AHX> !track e613
[10:01] <SpacenearUS> 03PB0AHX: Here you go - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=e613
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[10:14] <PE2BZ> !track pb0ahx
[10:14] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Here you go - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=pb0ahx
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[10:16] <joatman> Planning flight in August during Eclipse over USA. Is there a resource to run prediction based on historical wind data?
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[10:38] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BARC2 after 037 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BARC2
[10:45] Nick change: Kryczek_ -> Kryczek
[10:53] <SA6BSS-Mike> looks like barc2 is up
[10:56] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0313 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
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[11:08] <DutchMillbt> dial! BARC2
[11:09] <PE2BZ> !dial BARC2
[11:09] <DutchMillbt> ;-)
[11:09] <PE2BZ> No one barks ;-)
[11:09] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Latest dials for 03BARC2 10(0aaa): 03434.251 MHz, 434.251002 MHz
[11:09] <DutchMillbt> mohh Ben
[11:09] <PE2BZ> GM Klaas
[11:10] <DutchMillbt> lock on
[11:12] <PE2BZ> Ben ff naar AH, daarna zal BARC wel geland zijn ;-)
[11:19] <Laurenceb> !whereis HIRFW-3
[11:19] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb: 03HIRFW-3 was over 03North Pacific Ocean 10(22.10607,-141.70452) at 0313999 meters about 033 days ago
[11:20] <PB0AHX> DutchMillbt, Barc2 is on 434.251.2 bij mij
[11:20] <PB0AHX> but red red red red
[11:21] <DutchMillbt> Hi Herman, just a few blips now ;-)
[11:22] <PB0AHX> ok
[11:22] <PB0AHX> he is good on waterfall but signaal mmmmmm
[11:24] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03VK5EI-11 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VK5EI-11
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[11:25] <Sahand> does somebody here have some experience with aprs data transmission?
[11:26] <DutchMillbt> signal still too weak here...
[11:27] <DutchMillbt> Sahand ..yep
[11:28] <DutchMillbt> if it's about telemetry
[11:32] <Sahand> It's the hardware part mostly
[11:32] <Sahand> I'm building one myself with an aprs transmitter, arduino and gps receiver
[11:33] <Sahand> gps receiver sending telemetry to arduino works fine currently, could just use a library which came along with the thing
[11:33] <Sahand> but I'm having some trouble with the aprs transmitter
[11:35] <DutchMillbt> What kind of transmitter?
[11:36] <Sahand> SRB­MX146LV
[11:36] <Sahand> Current possible solution might be using a SPI library to communicate with the thing
[11:37] <DutchMillbt> sorry can't help you with that
[11:40] <DutchMillbt> nice piece of hardware btw : https://www.argentdata.com/files/srb-mx146lv.pdf
[11:45] <Vaizki> hmmh 70 usd + shipping + import vat.. :P
[11:45] <edmoore> it looks like it really wants an audio input
[11:46] <edmoore> unless you can shift the carrier around with enough speed and fidelity via the spi interface, which it doesn't look like you obviously can
[11:46] <Vaizki> yes it looks like you send it baseband afsk
[11:52] <Vaizki> not really getting the benefit of that over HX1?
[11:52] <Vaizki> am I missing something?
[12:03] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IK8SUT-11 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IK8SUT-11
[12:07] <Sahand> tbh, we just got that one because it seemed good
[12:08] <edmoore> it looks good, tho as others say we tend to just use the radiometrix modules here
[12:08] <Sahand> ah, fair enough
[12:08] <edmoore> but that doesn't mean you should too, it's good to have everyone trying everything
[12:08] <edmoore> but it looks like you'll have to generate the audiotones at the two frequencies to put into this module
[12:09] <edmoore> you could do that in some really nice way with a DAC or synthesizer chip or something, or you could bodge it by generating a square wave at the audio freqs and filtering it down to produce a sine wave
[12:10] <Sahand> ah, fair enough?
[12:10] <Sahand> oh whoops
[12:10] <Sahand> wrong message
[12:10] <edmoore> i can't remember off the top of my head what aprs needs but it's something like 1.2khz and 1.5khz for the two tones, which the arduino should be fine with
[12:10] <Sahand> any idea where I can find some documentation for that?
[12:10] <edmoore> no, but better to just understand the problem and solve it directly
[12:10] <edmoore> it's not library territory
[12:11] <Sahand> ah
[12:11] <edmoore> so you'll want to find out the two tones for APRS
[12:11] <Geoff-G8DHE_> https://www.tapr.org/pub_ax25.html
[12:11] <edmoore> then design a filter to knock off all the high frequency stuff for the square waves
[12:11] <edmoore> and then find a ref for ax25
[12:11] <edmoore> ah, what Geoff-G8DHE_ just posted
[12:12] <edmoore> there probably is a library that can generate APRS packets already, but it might be a fun exercise to implement yourself
[12:13] <Sahand> might be interesting yeah
[12:13] <edmoore> for the generation of the freqs, there might be an arduino function, i don't know, but it should be definitely quite doable using the atmega's hardware timer peripheral
[12:13] <DutchMillbt> well have a look here : https://github.com/markqvist/LibAPRS
[12:13] <Sahand> I was planning to use an arduino library for setting up the PSI with the arduino and transmitter, and this is a separate thing besides it?
[12:13] <edmoore> yes
[12:13] <edmoore> have a careful read of the datasheet
[12:13] <Geoff-G8DHE_> The physical layer is Bell 202 AFSK modulation
[12:14] <Geoff-G8DHE_> 1200Hz and 2200Hz
[12:14] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Try this site http://n1vg.net/packet/
[12:14] <Sahand> for aprs, those two frequencies?
[12:15] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Yes, you used to be able to get Bell 202 modem chips but its rather ageed now
[12:15] <Geoff-G8DHE_> the AX.25 protocol is X.25 with addressing altered to allow use of callsigns.
[12:16] <Geoff-G8DHE_> a very practical protocol for radio links much better than TCP/IP which doesn't work that well on radio
[12:17] <Sahand> alright
[12:17] <Sahand> lol this all seems very complicated to me, might've gone into something too far over my head
[12:17] <Sahand> I'll read those links you've sent me and do some more research though
[12:17] <edmoore> it's not complicated, but it might be new
[12:17] <edmoore> those things are different but can seem the same initially
[12:18] <Sahand> yeah, that's what I meant
[12:18] <edmoore> Sahand: you're in the US?
[12:18] <Sahand> I'll figure it out eventually
[12:18] <Sahand> nah, netherlands
[12:18] <edmoore> ah fine
[12:18] <edmoore> nice
[12:18] <Sahand> doing a project with a group of people for a high altitude balloon and I'm supposed to get gps working
[12:19] <edmoore> have you ended up with the radio too?
[12:19] <Sahand> Well, I need to make a thing for in the balloon which can both send and receive
[12:19] <Geoff-G8DHE_> If its just an Up/Burst/Down flight then APRS is not necessarily the easiest or even best route.
[12:19] <Sahand> the receiving gps signals works, now we just need to find a way to transmit it
[12:20] <Sahand> what would be a better method?
[12:20] <Geoff-G8DHE_> APRS is usually used when there is a need to go global rather than just local.
[12:20] <edmoore> RTTY, which is what we all in the UK use
[12:20] <DutchMillbt> Goedenmiddag Sahand, Daveake's flextrack does aprs too: https://github.com/daveake/FlexTrack
[12:20] <edmoore> it's very much simpler
[12:20] <Geoff-G8DHE_> or LoRa
[12:20] <edmoore> meh don't start with lora
[12:20] <edmoore> it's like only learning an automatic car
[12:21] <Sahand> bedankt Dutchmillbt
[12:21] <Sahand> just out of curiosity, what's the difference between lora, rtty and aprs?
[12:21] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Many modes some have advantages over others, no single right answer ;-)
[12:21] <Sahand> I'm lacking a lot of knowledge
[12:21] <edmoore> rtty is simplest
[12:21] <Sahand> on these parts
[12:22] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Not something that can be explained in one sentence!
[12:22] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Each mode has advantages and disadvantages depending what speed is needed, volume of data, range etc.
[12:22] <edmoore> lora is a proprietary thing, can't be received very easily with amateur equipment or anything, but it works quite well
[12:22] <PE2BZ> vhf aprs is 1200 baud (1200 bits per second) rtty is 50,75 or 300 baud, LoRa is a kind of spread spectrum modulation
[12:24] <PE2BZ> My reception, on the other side of the northsea, is about 2000 meter better on rtty mode than on lora mode. So with lora I receive from abt 8000 meters high but rtty 50 or 75 bd I receive from abt 6000 meters height
[12:26] <Sahand> ah, alright
[12:27] <Geoff-G8DHE_> If your wanting to send pictures then SSDV using LoRae size limited. is way better than 300baud RTTY which is very slow and he
[12:27] <Geoff-G8DHE_> humm that got mangeled!
[12:28] <Geoff-G8DHE_> If your wanting to send pictures then SSDV using LoRa is way better than 300baud RTTY which is very slow and size limited.
[12:30] <Sahand> We're just planning to do coordinates
[12:31] <Sahand> using a 360 degrees camera, filesize would be too big
[12:31] <Sahand> I suppose at least
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[12:33] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Which spherical camera are you using ?
[12:34] <Geoff-G8DHE_> http://360.g8dhe.net/
[12:34] <Sahand> kodak pixpro SP360 $K
[12:35] <Sahand> 4k*
[12:35] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Are you usin a pair or just one down pointing ?
[12:36] <Sahand> one
[12:36] <Geoff-G8DHE_> You may want to check interference levels from the internal clocks in the camera to GPS in that case!
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[12:37] <Sahand> hmm, so the camera might interfere with the gps?
[12:37] <Sahand> even if they aren't connected in any way?
[12:38] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Any electronics has the possibility, cameras have lots of internal clocks and harmonics at close range as in a HAB can cause all sorts of fun and games especially as you need to test these things at low temperatures where they might drift into the GPS band.
[12:39] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Most aren't tested down to -40c working!
[12:40] <Sahand> ah, fair point
[12:40] <Geoff-G8DHE_> or even if they are they aren't tested for interference generating posibilities.
[12:40] <Sahand> we have some heaters which'll hopefully keep the temperature above that though
[12:40] <Sahand> but we'll be sure to test, thanks!
[12:41] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Heaters ? Oh no be wary, where is the heat going to escape very low air pressure so very little air flow
[12:41] <Geoff-G8DHE_> most end up overheating the equipment
[12:41] <SpeedEvil> If the camera is on, in general, cold is not at all a concern
[12:44] <Sahand> camera will be outside though
[12:44] <Sahand> the arduino, transmitter, gps receiver and battery will be inside
[12:45] <Sahand> would it still be a big risk?
[12:45] <Geoff-G8DHE_> The lens will get low temperature and if sealed with moisture inside can suffer condensation, the electronicsinternally generally are warm enough and when at height so little air flow they can heat up more than you expect.
[12:45] <Sahand> because we wil lmost likely encounter layers of atmosphere of around -40,-60 as far as I know
[12:46] <Sahand> and that will most definitely shut down the gps system and camera
[12:46] <Geoff-G8DHE_> its more the temperature differentials that cause the problems
[12:47] <Geoff-G8DHE_> some parts will be cool but others which generate heat can't be cooled as normal.
[12:48] <mfa298> Sahand: depending on the "heater" it may not work very well anyway, most of the hand warmers people tend to use require oxegyn to work
[12:48] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Have you discovered the wiki ?
[12:48] <Geoff-G8DHE_> !wiki
[12:48] <SpacenearUS> 03Geoff-G8DHE_: Here be the wiki, arr: 12http://ukhas.org.uk
[12:49] <mfa298> also check what GPS you're using, not all work at HAB altitudes (not sure if that's been said already)
[12:49] <Sahand> ah alright
[12:49] <Sahand> I'll look around that site and check it, thanks!
[12:49] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Indeed they need t be put into a "Flight" mode if they are to work above 12Km
[12:49] <Sahand> for now I'll be leaving but I'll definitely visit more, otherwise I won't be able to complete this for sure :')
[12:50] <Sahand> thank you and goodbye!
[12:50] <Geoff-G8DHE_> Have fun, there is a LOT of learning as so many subjects come into play.
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[13:12] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03LU7AA-15 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=LU7AA-15
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[13:18] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-3 after 033 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-3
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[13:43] <AndyEsser> delivery of isopropyl, flux and solder just arrived at the office :)
[13:43] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KD0VJI-11 after 0315 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD0VJI-11
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[14:11] Nick change: iNeo -> PE0SAT
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[14:29] <Ian_> You need a big bin for the unleaded solder Andy :) 60/40 rules.
[14:33] <AndyEsser> it might not be unleaded... :P
[14:40] <Ian_> No, the stuff that you were using the other day for the solar panels
[14:40] <AndyEsser> ah yes, gotcha
[14:41] <userscott2> Afternoon all. :)
[14:41] <Ian_> It needs to flow so smoooothly for them from what I have read over the years.
[14:41] <Ian_> Afternoon
[14:41] <userscott2> I've been looking for an excuse to use IRC again for years, who knew HAB had so many perks.
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[14:42] <fsphil> it hasn't changed much.
[14:42] <fsphil> or at all really
[14:43] <Ian_> It's a whole new spin on radio with lots of people that have mountains ^ ^
[14:44] <userscott2> fsphil: It still lets you open the app even when the 30 day expiration has run out, lol
[14:44] <fsphil> ah mirc. I remember writing games in mirc script
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[15:07] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HB9FDK-14 after 037 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HB9FDK-14
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[15:59] <gonzo_> certainly a good day for pv here
[16:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03N7ERU-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N7ERU-11
[16:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03N7ERU-12 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N7ERU-12
[16:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KA7NSR-7 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KA7NSR-7
[16:03] <userscott2> Today is a good day for knocking up antennae! https://ibb.co/e8SX3v
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[16:25] <userscott2> Maybe somebody can help? I'm trying to config the Sentence Wizard for my Habduino in Habitat.
[16:25] <userscott2> An example output is as follows: $$MYLOFF,10,16:22:43,0.000000,0.000000,0,0,23,172,31*ED92
[16:25] <userscott2> I can't find documentation to explain what the 23, 172 and 31 represent at the end. Is anybody familiar with this?
[16:28] <adamgreig> hmm
[16:28] <adamgreig> there might be an example you can copy from already
[16:28] <adamgreig> otherwise Upu can probably advise
[16:29] <adamgreig> the current template is id,time,lat,lng,alt,sats,temperature,battery,status
[16:29] <adamgreig> so that's your last fields
[16:29] <adamgreig> I recommend "start from existing" on the genpayload, type in habduino, select the latest HABDUINO_TEMPLATE, go from there
[16:31] <userscott2> Thank you Adam, I'll have a look.
[16:32] <adamgreig> but it seems those fields are temperature in C, battery in mV, and "status"
[16:32] <adamgreig> whatever that means :p
[16:32] <userscott2> Thanks again! :)
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[16:35] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03MYLOFF - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MYLOFF
[16:36] <userscott2> ^^^Looks like that worked then! Ha!
[16:36] <userscott2> Switched to offline mode now lol. Causing trouble as always! :D
[16:37] <adamgreig> it's no problem to put stuff on the map, we insist on it for testing eventually :)
[16:37] <mfa298> there's usually not much problem if you're uploading data. It's a good sign things are working
[16:37] <userscott2> Thanks guys, glad to hear that.. :)
[16:39] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KF5KMP-8 after 033 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KF5KMP-8
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[17:22] Nick change: Matthias -> matthias
[17:36] <Upu> last field is APRS TX's since on
[17:37] <Upu> depends if you're using Habduino code or Flextrack
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[17:46] <userscott2> Hi Upu. My Habduino is fitted with an APRS but not in use as I'm in the UK
[17:46] <userscott2> Thanks for confirming as I wasn't sure about that last one.
[17:47] <Upu> oh hi I was going to reply to your mail this evening
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[17:47] <Upu> if the call sign is commented out it won't TX APRS
[17:49] <Upu> just bathing baby will be on later
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[20:10] <Upu> userscott2: still there ?
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[21:01] <userscott2> Upu, hello!
[21:02] <Upu> Hey there, I replied
[21:02] <userscott2> Awesome! You got my email @ Nevis? Still learning who's who but this is handy if the Habduino guy is on here!!! :) :)
[21:03] <userscott2> Just saw your email. Thank you!
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[00:00] --- Fri Apr 7 2017