highaltitude.log.20170404

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[03:13] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03IK8SUT-11 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=IK8SUT-11
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[05:10] <PE2BZ> !flights
[05:10] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Current flights: 03RICOH 10(082d)
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[06:28] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SQ7ACP-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SQ7ACP-11
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[07:09] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SP5RZP-11 after 034 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP5RZP-11
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[08:01] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03RICOH - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RICOH
[08:01] <AndyEsser> flying printer?
[08:01] <fsphil> $$paper_jam
[08:03] <fsphil> $$obscure_error_that_means_nothing_to_anyone_except_printer_firmware_programmer
[08:03] Action: fsphil hates printers
[08:15] <gonzo_> flying them is prob best then. At least from the window to the ground
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[08:16] <AndyEsser> Defenestration
[08:18] <gonzo_> morning mr
[08:19] <AndyEsser> morning
[08:19] <AndyEsser> back from holiday and in the office
[08:19] <AndyEsser> and it sucks
[08:19] <AndyEsser> took another day off yesterday to be in _my_ office to keep working on end of year accounts, and some rocket calcs
[08:21] <gonzo_> an excellent new word, to slip into conversation
[08:21] <gonzo_> have added it to the dictionary of such words
[08:22] <gonzo_> I know the feeling
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[08:49] <garymortimer> morning all
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[08:52] <fsphil> morns
[08:53] <garymortimer> splendid direction for RICOH, a drinking stomping ground of old!
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[09:10] <PB0AHX> lots off qrm on qrg from RICOH mmmm
[09:26] <PE0SAT> !flights
[09:26] <SpacenearUS> 03PE0SAT: Current flights: 03RICOH 10(082d)
[09:27] <PB0AHX> mogge Jan
[09:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DL0MES - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DL0MES
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[10:01] <PB0AHX> pooffffffffffffff
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[10:13] <gonzo_> if richo was 50bd, I'd be getting copy
[10:13] <AndyEsser> need a more sensitive RXer :)
[10:13] <gonzo_> good signal, but the snr req for 300db is just too high
[10:13] <gonzo_> I do. The the replacement LNA is well overdue
[10:14] <gonzo_> popped my good one and lashed summut else in
[10:14] <AndyEsser> I need to learn how to nicely get connectors onto my coax, and then I can start thinking about getting my antennas mounted
[10:15] <gonzo_> good clamp type N types. (Or even the pl59 clamop ones if you must) are easy to make a nice jon
[10:15] <gonzo_> job
[10:16] <PB0AHX> RICOH ream mni tnx for good flight gl with recovering
[10:16] <AndyEsser> but how much of the core needs to be exposed, how much of the sheath, etc
[10:16] <PB0AHX> ream =team
[10:17] <fsphil> ricoh team probably used a ream of paper
[10:18] <AndyEsser> badum tsch
[10:23] <gonzo_> depends on the connector. Most you: sleve on the nut and the seal rubber. Expose X amount of braid, then open that braid outand push the top hat over the dielectric and under the braid, till it reaches the outer sheath. trim the dielectric flush with the top hat. That leves X amount of centre core. Sleeve on the first insulator, push the pin onto the centre and solder (needs to wick up well), then clean upand put on 2nd insulator, And assembel
[10:23] <gonzo_> the X is mostly dependent on how much centra is needed to go into the pin
[10:23] <gonzo_> so a trail assy may be req (unless you can get the specs)
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[10:24] <gonzo_> you can always trim
[10:24] <gonzo_> and give the braid a haircut
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[11:22] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03VK5EI-11 after 033 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VK5EI-11
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[11:31] <Dan_KU> Hi guys, I'm pretty alien to amateur radio. Been looking at the UKHAS guide to using a Radiometrix NTX2 Module but have no idea how I would attach an antenna to the setup. Any help?
[11:35] <number10> Dan_KU here is a guide on how to make one https://ukhas.org.uk/guides:payload_antenna
[11:37] <Dan_KU> perfect, just need to find a way to adapt it into a payload bay for a rocket
[11:37] <Dan_KU> was hoping the HAB tracker would work for a High Powered Rocket as wel
[11:42] <AndyEsser> if you're using a ublox GPS chip you need to set it into a different mode for rockets I believe
[11:42] <AndyEsser> due to the high acceleration/speed
[11:44] <Dan_KU> yeah speed is a concern. I was planning on using the adafruit FONA, which has GPS and GSM. Will take a look at the specifications
[11:50] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0313 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
[11:51] <Laurenceb> adamgreig: I took a look at using 868mhz silabs transceiver to bounce packets and measure time of flight
[11:53] <Laurenceb> I'm not really sure if it would be sensible, as the doppler shifts mean the rx filter has to be really wide, unless some sort of active carrier tracking is used, in which case there is a risk of it all going wrong, and theres only one chance for it to work or no useful data results
[11:53] <Laurenceb> seems a case of a design that allows failure modes to occur too easily
[11:54] <adamgreig> how much doppler are you getting?
[12:01] <Laurenceb> up to 11khz
[12:01] <Laurenceb> counting failure modes
[12:01] <Laurenceb> I guess the rocket can transmit then the ground locks onto the carrier and tries to uplink a packet on same frequency
[12:02] <Laurenceb> but the datarate also needs to be high
[12:02] <Laurenceb> like 100kbps or something, so the doppler is kind of irrelevant
[12:03] <Laurenceb> at 100kbps and 16dBi antenna on the ground I get only 20dB fade margin at 350km slant range
[12:04] <Laurenceb> and thats with the rocket receiving at altitude over a wide bandwidth
[12:04] <Laurenceb> differential doppler has 80dB margin with all rx on the ground
[12:10] <adamgreig> What tx power are you using?
[12:10] <adamgreig> think we have somewhat different operating scenarios too :p
[12:14] <Laurenceb> yeah
[12:14] <Laurenceb> 16dBm
[12:18] <Laurenceb> yeah in a desert with rocket flying to ~40km the situation is somewhat different
[12:18] <Laurenceb> way less risk of interference, and more of a pain to set up remote stations
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[12:26] <userscott> Hey guys! Planning a launch from Manchester, UK currently. I have a 1/4w ground plane antenna for our Habduino but was curious - are there any nice alternatives professionally made out there?
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[12:30] <Laurenceb> this is the transmit antenna for the balloon?
[12:30] <userscott> Hi Laurence, yes :)
[12:30] <Laurenceb> tbh I'd go with a diy antenna for the balloon
[12:32] <gonzo_> professional infers better. And with antennas this is so often not the case
[12:32] <userscott> I kinda guessed that would be the case. It came out quite well all things considered.. on my drone I printed an antenna holder so I might make something similar for the center pole
[12:33] <userscott> I got an SNR of 41 db
[12:36] <AndyEsser> userscott: where are you launching from?
[12:36] Nick change: en4rab_ -> en4rab
[12:37] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03S-22 after 038 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=S-22
[12:40] <userscott> AndyEsser: Manchester, but no planned location yet
[12:41] <AndyEsser> I got the Manchester bit :P
[12:41] <AndyEsser> you're going to have a hard time finding somewhere in the city
[12:41] <AndyEsser> Mancunian Balloonian were going to use a site between Chester and Wrexham
[12:45] <userscott> It seems like you're local! We would drive to a suitable location but haven't got that far yet. I *think* that my friend Pete Blacker was on the Mancunion Balloonian job. I shall pester him!
[12:46] <AndyEsser> I live in Chester
[12:46] <AndyEsser> I've told Mancunian Balloonian I'm happy to come along and hold things when they do their launch (had to delay due to wind) and help track
[12:46] <AndyEsser> well North Wales now, but basically Chester
[12:46] <userscott> Mega, small world. I'm in Sale. Would be great to catch up.
[12:47] <AndyEsser> well when you find a launch site etc, again, happy to come and hold things whilst you launch and help track :)
[12:47] <AndyEsser> any excuse for a nice day out
[12:47] <userscott> That would be great Andy. What is the best way to contact you?
[12:48] <AndyEsser> drop me an email: aesser@zerodependency.co.uk
[12:49] <userscott> Done! :)
[12:49] <AndyEsser> for a moment I confused you with Scott Manley and got excited :)
[12:50] <userscott> We have a Hyowee 1200g balloon, Rocketman 4' chute, 8 litre polystyrene box. Habduino on a genuine Arduino. Yaesu FT-790 radio etc. Got a Genie 20l bottle of Helium to send her up with for cheap!
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[12:50] <AndyEsser> payload all tested?
[12:51] <userscott> It only got assembled yesterday....... It's early days! Coms links all work thus far. I've got a mag antenna for my car and a little yagi for finding it when it lands in the ship canal lol
[12:51] <AndyEsser> :)
[12:52] <AndyEsser> may be worth trying to find a suitable location to launch
[12:52] <AndyEsser> the place mancunian balloonian launched from was good, but wind is unhelpful
[12:52] <AndyEsser> since it has to head either West or South
[12:52] <AndyEsser> to avoid Manchester/Liverpool airports
[12:52] <userscott> http://imgur.com/TuX42Pf
[12:52] <userscott> http://imgur.com/3Qp3H85
[12:52] <AndyEsser> that's a _big_ box
[12:53] <userscott> It is! I just guessed as first time building it. I will of course down size...
[12:53] <AndyEsser> if that's your entire payload, it may fit in a Hobbycraft polystyrene egg
[12:54] <userscott> Secretely I think I dropped a bollock. I purchased the Habduino thinking it was a good cost effective solution but of course it has no telemetry really. Then I realised I could have bought a Pi in the Sky kit for a little bit cheaper... and used the Pi camera etc... and it has battery voltage etc.
[12:54] <userscott> So might just scrap the Habudino for this payload and admit defeat.. :/
[12:55] <userscott> I put the ARPS module on as my partner lives in the states so I figured it would be useful over there. But I really wanted to design a standardised payload. I'll get polystyrene infill laser cut to look really neat!
[12:58] <mfa298> arduino and FT-790, going for that oldschool setup (there's nothing wrong with that)
[12:58] <userscott> I wanted my first launch to work, and be reliable... so kinda read about a bit and went as you say - old school!
[12:59] <userscott> But now I'm upset as I really want battery voltage, temperature, images etc.. :(
[12:59] <mfa298> and if you got a PITS (or made soemthing similar yourself) then the habduino makes for a good 2nd/backup tracker
[12:59] <userscott> mfa298, i was thinking of hacking an Android phone as per the Icarus guys over the pond to put in my payload as a second GPS tracker. Is this a waste of time..?
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[13:01] <mfa298> gsm/3g comms never seem to work that well, it won't work at altitude, and often doesn't work in a ditch
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[13:05] <userscott> I read a report which said a 50/50 chance of working was probably quite optimistic!
[13:05] <userscott> What's the general view on testing? How do I realisticialy test my coms? Leave the payload on a mountain? Fly it up on a baby balloon? I'm a bit new to this!!!
[13:06] <mfa298> 50/50 is what's reckoned by people here although thats based more on gut rather than number crunching
[13:07] <mfa298> you can try some distance testing - stick it on a hill and drive around or similar, but that depends a bit on what's in the way.
[13:09] <userscott> Excellent. I'll try that... :)
[13:12] <SpeedEvil> first test is to stick it int he freezer for a day
[13:15] <userscott> Hahaha! I was kinda imagining that would be an option. I'm up for that. Maybe you guys can help me on something else then. I've gone for the vintage option - Habduino and an FT-790 nailed to the roof of my car. What's the defacto off-the-shelf telemetry option? I don't want to hack something together on a breadboard as it won't sit well with my OCD and I'll end up building a batch of PCBs
[13:15] <userscott> again lol - so looking for something off the shelf? Anything out there? I'm really thinking to just stop digging myself deeper with this Habduino and order a Pi in the Sky........
[13:16] <Vostok> userscott: https://themighty.com/2015/04/dont-say-you-have-ocd-just-because-you-like-things-clean1/
[13:17] <userscott> Seen that :p
[13:22] <Vostok> and?
[13:22] <Vostok> you still didn't get it?
[13:23] <mfa298> userscott: a lot of people here build their own, ranging from designed pcbs to deadbug trackers.
[13:24] <userscott> Thanks MFA
[13:24] <mfa298> habduino and PITs are probably the only off the shelf options designed for UK
[13:24] <userscott> I better fire up Eagle and get making something. Argh!
[13:26] <mfa298> you could always use the habduino hardware and write your own softwre for it - add in those extra sensors you want.
[13:33] <gonzo_> dead bug?! Can't imagine who you are refering to
[13:34] <AndyEsser> dead bug?
[13:34] <mfa298> well every gram counts doesn't it :p
[13:45] <AndyEsser> can anyone recommend transformers to me? want to go from about 5v to about 20v and vice versa (assume I can just... turn the transformer around)
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[14:27] <gonzo_> yep
[14:28] <gonzo_> if it;s sine wave AC
[14:29] <gonzo_> things get more complicated if you are using square waves etc
[14:29] <AndyEsser> shall DM you
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[16:31] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DC2EH-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DC2EH-11
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[17:10] <v3n0M_hUnt3R> hi
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[17:10] <PE2BZ> Good evening / morning / afternoon
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[17:13] <v3n0M_hUnt3R> oh
[17:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03do3hum-9_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=do3hum-9_chase
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[17:32] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03BSS4 after 0317 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BSS4
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[17:40] <NightGrounds> My balloon
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[18:41] <pe2bz_> !nick PE2BZ
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[20:08] <AndyEsser> ping richardeoin
[20:14] Nick change: Tygrys^ -> Tiger^
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[21:26] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03BUZZ01 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=BUZZ01
[21:29] <Laurenceb_> !whereis HIRFW-3
[21:29] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb_: 03HIRFW-3 was over 03North Pacific Ocean 10(22.10607,-141.70452) at 0313999 meters about 032 days ago
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[21:52] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03x_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=x_chase
[21:58] <adamgreig> hi i'm new to this, is this antenna OK to fly?? http://imgur.com/a/N0H8U
[21:58] <fsphil> needs more spikes
[21:59] <adamgreig> it's a lot like an old cell phone, i keep pretending to talk on it
[22:05] <lz1dev> im also new
[22:05] <lz1dev> would this work? http://i.imgur.com/c0UKRJu.png
[22:07] <adamgreig> looks like you're all set
[22:12] <lz1dev> how about my gps? http://core0.staticworld.net/images/article/2012/08/esc_burn_re-100001092-orig.jpeg
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[22:17] <adamgreig> lol
[22:17] <adamgreig> don't forget to put it in flight mode
[22:18] <lz1dev> http://www.mobilecollectors.net/files/benefon-max-1_medium.jpg
[22:24] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KC1ENN - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KC1ENN
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[22:59] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DAEDALUS - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DAEDALUS
[23:24] <Laurenceb_> https://twitter.com/RocketLabUSA/status/849280022082981890
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[00:00] --- Wed Apr 5 2017