highaltitude.log.20170323

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[00:33] <Augustin> Hi :-)
[00:33] <Augustin> Is there someone ? :-)
[00:33] <Augustin> I need experts pls !! :)
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[00:41] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SQ8LUN-11 after 032 days silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SQ8LUN-11
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[01:04] <mfa298> Augustin: most people are probably asleep now
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[01:05] <mfa298> it's usually best to just ask the question, that way people know if they can help.
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[07:22] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HB9FDK-12 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HB9FDK-12
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[09:24] <pb0ahx-> GM all
[09:29] Jeffsy (3e1e8fda@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.30.143.218) joined #highaltitude.
[09:29] <Jeffsy> hey guys, does anyone know what the UK balloon altitude record is?
[09:30] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> The ARHAB site has details
[09:31] <pb0ahx-> https://ukhas.org.uk/general:uk_records
[09:32] <pb0ahx-> xaben-100 nr 1
[09:36] <Jeffsy> wow thats nuts!
[09:36] <Jeffsy> I thought it was hard to break 130,000 even with one of those big hwoyees
[09:40] <mfa298> you just need the right combination of balloon, payload, conditions and luck
[09:57] <daveake> and h2
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[10:23] <pb0ahx-> !fligfhts
[10:24] <pb0ahx-> !flights
[10:24] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx-: Current flights: 03Barc194 10(c1c6), 03Barc195 10(3ad0)
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[11:29] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03M10WX-11 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M10WX-11
[11:36] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK5EI-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VK5EI-11
[11:40] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KF5KMP-8 after 0313 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KF5KMP-8
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[12:31] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KK6PNN-5 after 0315 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KK6PNN-5
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[12:33] <TT7> hi everyone
[12:34] <TT7> does anyone know the tensile strength of the materials used in superpressure balloons?
[12:36] <TT7> I have made a few balloons from PE/EVOH/PE, but during tests a 'Mylar shape' balloon bursts at just about 1kPa... not good enough
[12:39] <TT7> I read UBSEDS use PA/EVOH/PE so I asumed the PA layer adds the strength, but looking now into a datasheet of PE/PA/EVOH/PA/PE material, it states only marginally better tensile strength than PE/EVOH/PE
[12:40] <richardeoin> hey TT7
[12:41] <Laurenceb_> www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/b121965.pdf interesting read
[12:41] <richardeoin> datasheets do sometimes give an ultimate tensile strength figure
[12:41] <TT7> 30/26MPa while reading about Mylar material I find values in 200MPa range
[12:41] <richardeoin> I've seen ~200 MPa too
[12:41] <Laurenceb_> TT7: you may have stress concentration
[12:41] <Laurenceb_> 200 to 220MPa seems sane to me
[12:41] <Laurenceb_> it increases in strength at low temperature
[12:42] <richardeoin> it's very dependant on strain rate and temperature of course
[12:42] <Laurenceb_> at room temperature and high strain rate (i.e. rapid inflation) then creasing/wrinkles lead to stress concentration
[12:43] <Laurenceb_> the secret of successful superpressure seems to be in reducing stress concentrations so you can approach the theoretical burst pressure of the envelope
[12:44] <richardeoin> TT7: It'd be worth you trying to calculate some hoop stresses from the gauge pressure and your balloon dimensions
[12:44] <richardeoin> I've gtg for a bit
[12:44] <fsphil> hey TT7, nice writeup on the images
[12:47] <SpeedEvil> stressing at room temp or above in order to stretch the bits of film that would otherwise snap also helps
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[12:47] <SpeedEvil> I wonder if viewing through polarisers would be useful
[12:47] <vk3pb> hi all
[12:48] <vk3pb> just watching vk5ei-11 coming down
[12:48] <TT7> I suspect the PE/EVOH/PE I have... datasheet tensile strength 22/18MPa... because the rupture occured along a weld but it wasn't a weld opening
[12:49] <TT7> I've been slowly stressing them at room temperature
[12:49] <TT7> hi fsphil, thx and thank you for the ssdv libraries :)
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[12:56] <TT7> I am considering ordering the PE/PA/EVOH/PA/PE material, but the low tensile strength suprised me in comparison to the Mylar values
[12:57] <sblair1290> Hi, this is my first messge in #high altitude. I need help configuring my payload document to include additional sensors.
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[13:07] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP6ZWR - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6ZWR
[13:32] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SCOOBY - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SCOOBY
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[14:09] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0313 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
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[14:47] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Yohoho - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Yohoho
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[16:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Aarrgh - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Aarrgh
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[16:05] Action: KF5WYX quietly enters the room and sits down in the corner to observe the social gathering while avoiding becomming entrenched in conversation. (hi all)
[16:08] <craag> welcome to the lurkers corner :)
[16:08] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03MARTIAN - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=MARTIAN
[16:09] <craag> (the most popular bit in the room ;) )
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[16:09] <KF5WYX> its where the cool kids hang out too.
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[16:11] <fsphil> sssh
[16:14] <KF5WYX> Just a quick show-n-tell, finally installed a computer into my car :: Still to do = Add a GPS sensor, probably homebrew based on a duino, an RS-232 cable to my Kenwood D700 which is also installed in the car, and some software to access OS maps... and I have me a hab tracking jag... a habuar.
[16:14] <KF5WYX> http://chapmanworld.com/2017/02/20/in-car-entertainment-with-delphi-part-1/
[16:14] <TT7> I calculated the maximum cylindrical hoop stress for a Mylar shaped balloon of 1.84m in diameter made of 40um 18MPa tensile strength material to be ~1kPa
[16:14] <TT7> which more or less matches the point at which an actual balloon ruptured
[16:15] <TT7> however the PE/PA/EVOH/PA/PE with its 26MPa would allow only ~450Pa higher pressure which is still not enough
[16:15] <TT7> richardeoin: do you happen to know the tensile strength of the PA/EVOH/PE material you used for comparison?
[16:17] <Laurenceb> !whereis HIRFW-3
[16:17] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb: 03HIRFW-3 was over 03North Pacific Ocean 10(20.93941,-125.78785) at 0313887 meters about 032 days ago
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[16:29] <richardeoin> TT7: sure, we did some stress/strain testing on 2cm wide strips
[16:32] <richardeoin> we saw a breaking stresses of 18-21 N, with a strain rate of 4mm / minute on 5cm long strips
[16:38] <richardeoin> TT7: out of interest how did your balloon rupture? For instance a qualatex (PET/PE) would fail with a bang by ripping the whole side open
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[16:40] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03KK4ETE-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KK4ETE-11
[16:42] <TT7> richardeoin thx. the 1.84m balloon was made of 4 hemispheres and ruptured along the meridional weld with a loud bang at about 1kPa. the weld itself remained sealed.
[16:44] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03gurdeep _chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=gurdeep%20_chase
[16:44] <TT7> I found a tube shaped balloon being able to take higher pressure before bursting in a similar fashion
[16:47] <TT7> purely based on calculation the PE/PA/EVOH/PA/PE material in 50um thickness instead of 40 could provide enough margin if I build a tube shaped balloon instead of a mylar shape
[16:48] <sblair1290> does anybody have any advice regarding to configure a payload document to include additional sensors (sense hat for raspberry pi)?
[16:49] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SSTAR0115 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SSTAR0115
[16:50] <hyde00001> sblair1290 - have you fixed the broadcast sentence?
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[16:53] <hyde00001> once yoiu have that sorted and its being transmitted, its a question of editing a payload document and adding custom fields to suit...
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[17:22] <on7ndr> looking balloons
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[17:32] Nick change: en4rab_ -> en4rab
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[18:10] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03CALLSIGN123_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=CALLSIGN123_chase
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[19:30] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KD0VJI-11 after 0321 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KD0VJI-11
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[19:57] <SpeedEvil> Sort-of-on-topic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3y7iJEe7uM Mars Helicopter
[19:57] <SpeedEvil> (or 40km helicopter)
[19:58] <SpeedEvil> ^30
[19:59] <SpeedEvil> 4:28 specs. 2-3 min flight, 600m range, 40m altitude, 1 flight a day, 1.1m rotor, 1kg, 220W
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[20:08] <Vaizki> how does it check it doesn't land in a bad spot?
[20:09] <SpeedEvil> they haven't gone into that. I think they're just assuming optical
[20:09] <SpeedEvil> which is probably not insane
[20:12] <Vaizki> "Most likely, life of Mars Helicopter Scout will end wih an off-nominal landing"
[20:12] <Vaizki> ok so they're hoping for 5 sorties to claim it a success
[20:12] <Vaizki> so might as well rely on luck? :)
[20:13] <SpeedEvil> The blades are going round at a nontrivial fraction of the speed of sound.
[20:13] <SpeedEvil> Which ends up badly
[20:15] <Vaizki> in summary, I think it's still a very worthwhile idea..
[20:15] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[20:16] <SpeedEvil> It seems to be something you can do with entirely off-the-shelf stuff and test at ~30km.
[20:16] <Vaizki> except maybe how well it survives a 40m/s martian wind during the night
[20:16] <SpeedEvil> Not testing landing or nighttime cold of course
[20:17] <SpeedEvil> 40m/s is same dynamic pressure as 4m/s on earth of course
[20:17] <SpeedEvil> but it's uncomfortably big
[20:17] <Vaizki> true that..
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[21:41] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Elkotby_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Elkotby_chase
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[22:38] <Augustin> HI EVERYONE ! :-)
[22:39] <Augustin> I have a question !
[22:40] <OZ7EMA> hi
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[22:40] <Augustin> I'm building my first HAB, but I have a big problem. I would like to keep the telecommunication link with my balloon during the flught... all the flight... So I'm looking for a way to communicate with my HAB at 100.000 ft....
[22:40] <SIbot13> In real units: 000 ft = 0.00 m
[22:42] <Augustin> Anyone had already did it ?
[22:42] <OZ7EMA> if you search in the inet there are some project making repeaters
[22:42] <Augustin> Repeaters ??? It mean I have to send multiple balloon ?
[22:43] <Augustin> LoRa don't allow that range ?
[22:45] <OZ7EMA> do you have a ham license?
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[22:46] <mfa298> Augustin: where are you based?
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[22:47] <Augustin> In Belgium
[22:47] <Augustin> I have no licence
[22:47] <Augustin> The only one I have is to drive my car ;-)
[22:51] <mfa298> lora and/or rtty can give you the range from a balloon with license exempt powers, but you're limiited to line of sight meaning you'll need to be travelling to be near the balloon as it comes down
[22:51] <mfa298> and travelling you might miss some data - although with regular enough transmitions you should be able to track where it is without issue
[22:53] <Augustin> Is that stable ?
[22:55] <mfa298> thats what's used in the uk and it can work well
[22:56] <mfa298> it helps if there are other stations helping track as well
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[23:21] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Augustin, you do realise there is a network of stations that will track your flight and send the data back to a central server for you ?
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[00:00] --- Fri Mar 24 2017