highaltitude.log.20170313

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[02:37] <Darkside> is SP9TED in here
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[04:48] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03UBSEDS22I - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS22I
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[05:16] <richardeoin> ubseds up
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[05:18] Nick change: daey_ -> daey
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[05:28] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0313 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
[06:13] <PE2BZ> !flights
[06:13] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Current flights: 03Bromsgrove190 10(281f), 03UBSEDS22 434.637.5 CONTESTIA 16/1000 10(ae52), 03UBSEDS21 434.610 CONTESTIA 16/1000 10(2e88)
[06:13] <PE2BZ> !dial UBSEDS22
[06:13] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Latest dials for 03UBSEDS22 10(ae52): none
[06:13] <Ron_G8FJG> morning Ben
[06:15] <PE2BZ> Good morning, Ron
[06:16] <PE2BZ> Even more morning for you than for me ;-)
[06:17] <Ron_G8FJG> just like a field day !! should be on 434.637.5 but blue line is on me ..nil heard
[06:17] <PE2BZ> Going to make breakfast and travel all the 1 mile to work now. Teamviewer is on :-)
[06:18] <Ron_G8FJG> I think the transmissions are on even minutes 30 secs past ish
[06:22] <Ron_G8FJG> afk
[06:32] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03N0CALL_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=N0CALL_chase
[06:32] <Darkside> whoops
[06:32] <Darkside> thats me
[06:36] <SA6BSS-Mike> its starting suUz3W?;225>0:00:00,000000,0.%^:0,0.00&0,0,0>
[06:38] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03Pan712_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=Pan712_chase
[06:53] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03UBSEDS22 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS22
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[07:06] <Ron_G8FJG> UBSEDS22 pips on 434.637650
[07:17] <Ron_G8FJG> drifting slowly LF now .637600
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[07:48] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03M0SBU-2 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M0SBU-2
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[07:58] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03GSCOTF after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=GSCOTF
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[08:08] <pb0ahx> !flights
[08:08] <SpacenearUS> 03pb0ahx: Current flights: 03Bromsgrove190 10(281f), 03UBSEDS22 434.637.5 CONTESTIA 16/1000 10(ae52), 03UBSEDS21 434.610 CONTESTIA 16/1000 10(2e88)
[08:15] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HB9FDK-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HB9FDK-11
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[08:36] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03YPADSONDE after 037 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=YPADSONDE
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[09:07] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping
[09:21] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SABER - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SABER
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[09:33] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03NOTISS - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=NOTISS
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[09:41] <mfa298> cm13g09: pong (pm?)
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[10:04] <SA6BSS-Mike> someone ad hysplitt to ubseds22
[10:05] <richardeoin> oop yup it's floated
[10:05] <richardeoin> 91g payload :)
[10:05] <richardeoin> I think hysplit happens automatically for ubseds* SA6BSS-Mike
[10:06] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03DONALD - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=DONALD
[10:07] <richardeoin> the solar payload took a while to start up, may have been caught in some haze or cirrus perhaps
[10:07] <richardeoin> looks to be running fine now
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[10:09] <gonzo_> !flights
[10:09] <SpacenearUS> 03gonzo_: Current flights: 03Bromsgrove190 10(281f), 03UBSEDS22 434.637.5 CONTESTIA 16/1000 10(ae52), 03UBSEDS21 434.610 CONTESTIA 16/1000 10(2e88)
[10:12] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03GGBOIS - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=GGBOIS
[10:15] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03APERTR - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=APERTR
[10:18] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HAMHAB - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HAMHAB
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[10:21] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping pong (latency sorry)
[10:21] <cm13g09> yes to PM
[10:25] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03XWING - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=XWING
[10:31] <AndyEsser> anyone know what the upper range of the RTLSDR cheapo dongles roughly is?
[10:31] <AndyEsser> (frequency range*)
[10:32] <mfa298> depends on the tuner chip, most were somewhere between 1.7 and 2.2 GHz
[10:33] <AndyEsser> mfa298: cheers, yea, I know they all vary about with which chips they use (hence the roughly)
[10:33] <AndyEsser> so in theory I should be good to use one on the ~1.5GHz output from an old Sky LNB then
[10:33] <Darkside> apparently some fo the tuner ICs overheat when running at those frequencies
[10:34] <fsphil> yeah, I've plugged the lnb output into one, can see the satellite signals
[10:34] <fsphil> very handy for aligning the dish
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[10:36] <AndyEsser> ah, so maybe not 24/7 then, or lots of cooling
[10:36] <AndyEsser> (sorry, wifi dropped out)
[10:36] <AndyEsser> fsphil: was wondering how good it'd be using a 80cm dish or something for getting the NOAA weather satellite stuff
[10:38] <fsphil> what frequency do they use?
[10:53] <AndyEsser> gah, stupid sodding wifi
[10:53] <AndyEsser> fsphil: the NOAA satellites use 144
[10:53] <AndyEsser> it would be easier, I suspect to just build a QFH antenna
[10:54] <fsphil> at that frequency definitly
[10:54] <craag> Yeah dishes only really get useful >1.5GHz or so
[10:54] <AndyEsser> although I would be interested in getting into some >1GHz stuff
[10:54] <AndyEsser> anything interesting up there I could RX?
[10:54] <gonzo_> there used to be some at 1.5gig. VHF I thought was 136MHz
[10:55] <gonzo_> mr pjm is the man to ask
[10:55] <fsphil> the astra satellites have a weird beacon signal
[10:55] <fsphil> the other signals from the tv sats are just wideband DVB-S stuff
[10:57] <mattbrejza> 137 MHz i thought...
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[11:10] <AndyEsser> mattbrejza: sorry, yes
[11:10] <AndyEsser> got confused because I used my 144 antenna to get them last year
[11:10] <AndyEsser> it's only 7MHz :P
[11:23] <gonzo_> 5%
[11:24] <gonzo_> the bw depends on the antenna design, but as a rough guide, the higher gain, the lower the BW
[11:24] <SA6BSS-Mike> there is a special ext/io for the rtl fixing the heat ussue to some extent
[11:25] <SA6BSS-Mike> http://www.rtl-sdr.com/beta-testing-a-modified-rtl-sdr-driver-for-l-band-heat-issues/
[11:27] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03M10WX-11 after 03a day silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M10WX-11
[11:28] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: yea I guessed there was relationship along those lines
[11:31] <pjm> whatoh!
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[11:38] <AndyEsser> pjm: what's fun to receive up above 1GHz? :)
[11:38] <fsphil> voyager :)
[11:40] <fsphil> only 2.1 GHz... just need a big dish
[11:42] <AndyEsser> define... big
[11:42] <AndyEsser> I imagine as it's Voyager, it needs to be about 100m :)
[11:44] <SA6BSS-Mike> AERO-H ON L-BAND / GPS / ADSB
[11:44] <fsphil> to just detect it, probably just a few metres
[11:44] <fsphil> to get actual data from it, gonna be NASA-scale hardware
[11:46] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RSIST after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RSIST
[11:50] <fsphil> oh it's just earth > voyager on 2.1ghz
[11:50] <fsphil> voyager's up at 8ghz
[11:51] <gonzo_> pjm, AndyEsser was wondering what metsat stuff there is at L band, as he has an 80cm dish looking for some work
[11:52] <fsphil> could try for the DVB-S signal from the ISS. though it would need something to track it as it moved overhead
[11:58] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: I don't have a dish yet, but saw I could grab an 80cm dish for like £30
[11:59] <gonzo_> I wonder if we have anyone here who knows about that!
[12:02] <cm13g09> mfa298: sorry - I'm latent today
[12:02] <cm13g09> very latent
[12:06] <gonzo_> it's monday, you are excused
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[12:07] <Laurenceb> !whereis HIRFW-3
[12:07] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb: 03HIRFW-3 was over 03North Atlantic Ocean 10(8.48107,-15.03785) at 0313999 meters about 033 days ago
[12:07] <gonzo_> program just finished on bbc R4, on phone phreaking in the 70's
[12:10] <fsphil> 80cm dishes are pretty common here
[12:11] <fsphil> can usually get an old one for free
[12:12] <AndyEsser> personally would prefer something around about 2m :)
[12:12] <fsphil> same
[12:12] <AndyEsser> the kids will just have to accept part of the garden is off limits :)
[12:12] <AndyEsser> typing in 2m dish antenna always returns stuff for the 2m band...
[12:13] <dbrooke> try 3m 8-)
[12:13] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-4m-240cm-KU-Band-Satellite-Dish-UK-Europe-Nilesat-Arabsat-Spain-Bulsat-/141780936234?hash=item2102cd662a:g:fJMAAOSwpdpVXdx-
[12:14] <SpeedEvil> not _that_ expensive
[12:14] <AndyEsser> much nicer :)
[12:14] <AndyEsser> easy to see how it can be rotated, not sure about elevation though
[12:15] <gonzo_> dump the mount and make your own
[12:15] <SpeedEvil> yeah - that
[12:15] <gonzo_> I gave my 3mtr mesh one away last year
[12:15] <SpeedEvil> What diddn't you use it for?
[12:16] <gonzo_> had been up for years unused. Glad I took it down, as the mounting frame I made was only still steel by a distant memory
[12:16] <gonzo_> next high wind would have taken it
[12:16] <fsphil> do it arecibo style, hole in the ground. when not in use it can become a water feature
[12:17] <gonzo_> my garden, when water pump not on
[12:17] <fsphil> I think that was a bad plot in a bond film
[12:17] <gonzo_> yep and bad effects for the water flood
[12:19] <jakeio> Hey, I was wondering if I could make use of you guys to get some 'independent feedback' on my A-Level CompSci project? Would you be willing?
[12:19] <jakeio> This is to tick some boxes on my evaluation.
[12:19] <gonzo_> an interesting radio astron dish design is a fixed parabolic reflector, but only curved in one plane and a tilting reflector. Thing of two parallel chicke wire fences. One curved with a feed point and the other that can be hinged down flat to the floor
[12:21] <gonzo_> that only gives one axis of stearing, but make the reflector circular and you can steer the been by moving the feed point (arecibo does that)
[12:28] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: you mean the backwards filming they did of it draining out?
[12:29] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: moving the feed point rather than the dish I always thought was quite clever
[12:29] <AndyEsser> (again, got that from Goldeneye)
[12:29] <AndyEsser> had to get into my loft yesterday to measure up gaps for loft boards and things
[12:30] <AndyEsser> there's quite a bit of space in there...
[12:30] <fsphil> don't let sean bean near it. that man is a hazard
[12:30] <AndyEsser> not sure there's enough space for my 434 yagi to fully rotate... and not sure how much gain I'd use putting it in there, but saves having to drill big holes in brick for the external mast
[12:30] <AndyEsser> fsphil: or Frozen Boris, who I keep expecting to show up in a new movie after MI6 thaw him out for some plot reason
[12:31] <jakeio> If anybody was willing to help me out, I've a demo video of my project so you don't need to install it yourselves, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTSZHrui7N4 I'd just be really grateful for any comments I can quote about functionality, how well it achieves 2-way communications, etc. and potential improvements or suggestions. Thanks in advance to anyone willing to help.
[12:31] <jakeio> The video starts off a bit silly. But quickly gets serious.
[12:31] <fsphil> he is after all, invincible
[12:31] <AndyEsser> a wild daveake appears in video
[12:32] <AndyEsser> fsphil: :)
[12:32] <jakeio> Yeah, his Microbit payload went on those flights.
[12:32] <jakeio> And BUZZ.
[12:32] <Vaizki> no gloves :O
[12:33] <jakeio> I like to live on the edge.
[12:33] <jakeio> The edge of rope-burn.
[12:34] <AndyEsser> jakeio: gloves stop oils getting on the balloon and weakening it's integrity
[12:34] <AndyEsser> not avoiding rope burn
[12:34] <AndyEsser> jakeio: where did you launch from? and where did it land in the end?
[12:35] <jakeio> Launch: Monmouth, landing sites were Welshpool and Sennybridge (Brec Beacons).
[12:35] <AndyEsser> ah cool
[12:35] <AndyEsser> when was this?
[12:35] <jakeio> Feb the 12th and 14th I think.
[12:35] <AndyEsser> more launch announcements need to have project landing positions so I know whether I should pack up the car :)
[12:36] <jakeio> AndyEsser: where are you based?
[12:36] <AndyEsser> North Wales :)
[12:36] <jakeio> Ah, I have a major flight coming up soon.
[12:36] <AndyEsser> how soon is soon?
[12:36] <jakeio> I run a club at my school to get fellow students to build and launch HABs in teams.
[12:36] <jakeio> We're launching this weekend or next weekend.
[12:37] <jakeio> (Depending on level of CAA kindness.)
[12:37] <jakeio> 8 teams so 8 balloons in one go.
[12:37] <AndyEsser> I'm hopefully going to be helping a launch this Saturday (weather permitting) so will have dug out all my antennas and things (just moved house so equipment is either packed in garage, or at my office in Bangor)
[12:37] <AndyEsser> so should have everything for a recovery this week or next
[12:37] <AndyEsser> can dig out the new handheld yagi that I've not used yet
[12:38] <AndyEsser> so this weekend should be HABtastic
[12:39] <jakeio> That's a shameful pun!
[12:39] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: following weekend I'm back in Bisley for the first time in about 3 years to start shooting again :)
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[12:39] <jakeio> Have you guys watched my demo video?
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[12:39] <jakeio> Or is it still going, I'm aware it drags on a bit.
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[12:43] <craag> if anyone lands on the IoW this weekend we'll have a recovery team waiting :)
[12:45] <fsphil> oooh, someone try that pls
[12:45] <fsphil> need a reverse predictor
[12:46] <mattbrejza> looks like dave might be able to manage it
[12:46] <mattbrejza> bit early to say though
[12:46] <fsphil> yeah. I can only manage holland
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[12:52] <AndyEsser> craag: aww, made me all sad :(
[12:55] <craag> Hope you can make it along another time AndyEsser !
[12:55] <AndyEsser> definitely
[13:12] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03sp9uvg_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=sp9uvg_chase
[13:13] <Laurenceb> !whereis UBSEDS22
[13:13] <SpacenearUS> 03Laurenceb: 03UBSEDS22 is over 03Celtic Sea 10(47.68679,-5.25522) at 0312618 meters
[13:14] <Laurenceb> ah AX5043, nice
[13:15] <Laurenceb> AFC seems a bit lacking on that tho - for uplink
[13:18] <craag> richardeoin: Was anything picked up by the websdr ax rx?
[13:21] <Laurenceb> https://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10354417&cid=54026395
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[14:17] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03EALPITS - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=EALPITS
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[14:50] <Ian_> At arecibo the reflector is about eight or nine foot off the ground and they park their cars etc. there from pictures that I have seen. Probably buildings/offices under it too
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[14:51] <russss> there's not much under it but you can drive down there
[14:52] <russss> Balint Seeber's tour on youtube covers it, it's all worth watching https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPmwwVknVIiUlPbkfBUY1ebP_8hA_4q8j
[14:53] <russss> though I do not recommend watching the helmet-mounted gopro footage for too long if you suffer from motion sickness or have a hangover.
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[14:54] <Ian_> AndyEsser I believe that you would be better with a mast that doesn't require major drilling into house bricks.
[14:55] <AndyEsser> o god... sticking the camera out of a moving cars window is tedious
[14:55] <AndyEsser> Ian_: and how would that work?
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[14:57] <Ian_> Thanks for that russss. I can see those guys discussing how they might just be able to put in a floor and rent out some of the space as industrial units too . . . That would be ideal for the garden, big reflector that doubles as a pergalo/shed roof . . .
[14:57] <fsphil> radio silent industrial units
[14:58] <Ian_> How would that work AndyEsser, just a bit more mast under the bit that would otherwise start at about ten foot up. Fixed at the base and secured at seven or eight foor - lightly and use a few guys.
[14:59] <Ian_> s/foor/foot
[14:59] <AndyEsser> no space on that side of the building for guy lines
[14:59] <Ian_> Ah OK.
[15:00] <Ian_> Alternatively drill the mortar. Even remove some mortar and replace, then drill. No issues then later on about damaged bricks, simple pointing job.
[15:01] <AndyEsser> well yea, that's basically what I meant by drill through the wall
[15:01] <AndyEsser> just need to find time, a big enough drill + bit, and the brackets
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[15:01] <AndyEsser> plus a suitable scaff pole
[15:02] <Ian_> I noticed "but saves having to drill big holes in brick for the external mast" :)
[15:02] <AndyEsser> I meant "brick wall" not specifically the bricks themselves
[15:02] <AndyEsser> will be clearly in future
[15:03] <Ian_> :) it's all in the words Andy :)
[15:04] <Ian_> 8/10 See me. "will be clear in future" tsk, tsk.
[15:04] <Laurenceb> shear strength of mortar is low
[15:04] <Laurenceb> be careful it doesnt blow out in high wind
[15:05] <AndyEsser> Laurenceb: I was going to go the whole way through, and on the 'inside' use large pieces of sheet metal, or washers to spread the load
[15:05] <Ian_> I have a 4m 110mm straight soil pipe for £11 that is going to get put into service to take a pole.
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[15:06] <Laurenceb> oh wow
[15:06] <Laurenceb> _serious_ job :P
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[15:07] Action: Laurenceb was picturing huge mast and teeny wall plugs into mortar
[15:07] <Ian_> Instead of looking for a scaffold pole, you may find it easier to order aluminium tube/pole. Aluminium scaffolding doesn't last long as it gets chopped up on building sites and stolen for scrap.
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[15:08] <AndyEsser> Laurenceb: I'm too paranoid of taking out the side of the house in a small gale :)
[15:08] <AndyEsser> Ian_: yea, I can get a 21ft aluminium pole for about £15
[15:08] <SIbot13> In real units: 21 ft = 6.40 m
[15:09] <AndyEsser> £20.16 inc VAT not including delivery
[15:10] <AndyEsser> need to think how I'm going to actually mount the antennas, the two colinear's will obviously just bolt on
[15:10] <AndyEsser> but wondering if I mount the Yagis in the same way, or do a horizontal bar with them on
[15:10] <Ian_> That's a very good price. I wouldn't go for less than 54mm personally as it is quite whippy.
[15:10] <AndyEsser> 48mm, 4mm thickness
[15:11] <AndyEsser> galvanised steel
[15:11] <AndyEsser> hmm, I'm sure it showed up as ally previously
[15:11] <AndyEsser> 20ft is £26.84 ex VAT
[15:11] <SIbot13> In real units: 20 ft = 6.10 m
[15:11] <Ian_> Probably won't whip much in the wind if it's steel . . .
[15:12] <gonzo_> I showed you my old base only mounted free standing scaff mast
[15:12] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: yep, but don't really have the space to do that
[15:13] <gonzo_> space for tilt over>?
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[15:13] <gonzo_> putting a scaff on the house means you have to ladder right up to the top to do maint
[15:13] <AndyEsser> yea, and don't particularly want something the kids will be playing around
[15:14] <gonzo_> can always add guys, but fairy-nuff
[15:14] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: the antennas will be just above the roof line, and I'll likely ensure there's enough cabling to allow me to loosen the mast clamps a bit and slide it down a bit
[15:14] <Ian_> Two colinears, how will you mount them? One is simple of course, but two suggests that at least one is mounted away from the mast. You want symetry of weight and not a lot of that.
[15:15] <AndyEsser> Ian_: each of them have clamps to a side
[15:15] <AndyEsser> so at the very top I'll the small colinear on one side
[15:15] <AndyEsser> and then a bit fruther down on the other side have the other
[15:15] <Ian_> Is one of them not going to be sort of beside the pole?
[15:15] <gonzo_> you may be better having some large stand off brackets a little way down the wall and have a pole that is long enough to slide down. Then you can work below the eaves and push it up and nip up the u bolts when done
[15:16] <AndyEsser> Ian_: both will be
[15:16] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: that's basically waht I just described
[15:16] <gonzo_> yep it was. I didn[t see before typing!
[15:16] <Ian_> That will affect the antenna - badly.
[15:16] <gonzo_> craags latency must be catching
[15:17] <Ian_> Vertical antenna next to vertical metal pole . . .
[15:17] <AndyEsser> Ian_: best I can
[15:18] <AndyEsser> +do
[15:18] <Ian_> Best to wear a black band on your arm then.
[15:19] <gonzo_> both ants same band(s)
[15:19] <gonzo_> ?
[15:19] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: no
[15:19] <AndyEsser> one is my Diamond X50 70cm/2m
[15:19] <AndyEsser> and one is the 1090MHz
[15:19] <mfa298> 1090 you could proboably do on a small offset,
[15:19] <gonzo_> put the 1090 off to the side spaced off by a few feet. The pattern wo'nt be ideal, but should be useable
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[15:20] <AndyEsser> so rather than a single metal mast, have a main upright, then some horizontals for each antenna?
[15:20] <Ian_> I agree with gonzo about pushing up the poles, it's simple to add length from underneath as a vertical lift is simple, get it out of the vertical and it quickly becomes a beast to control.
[15:20] <AndyEsser> to get them away from each other
[15:20] <AndyEsser> Ian_: that was already my plan (see above)
[15:21] <mfa298> having the metal pole right next to the vertical antenna really one be good for the antenna - think of the mast as a badly tuned / spaced reflector
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[15:21] <AndyEsser> mfa298: sure, I get that
[15:21] <AndyEsser> I'm just unsure of the best way to solve that problem
[15:22] <mfa298> I'm sure there's some rule of thumb about how many wavelengths you should have between antenna and mast to reduce it's effect - getting that space will be easier with the 1090
[15:22] <gonzo_> you will get some change to the pattern, but at 1090 the spacing in terms pf wavelenth will be bigger
[15:23] <gonzo_> mfa298, it wobbles about in 1/2 wavemengths (from mem) but less as you get further away
[15:23] <Ian_> 2/70 colinear mounted on the top of the pole. A 1090MHz colinear on a braced horizontal somewhere over 1/2 wavelength away from the pole should be OK, with some radiation pattern distortion. What gonzo is saying.
[15:24] <gonzo_> I'd put the 2/70 on top of the pole with a stand off horisontal to mount the 1090
[15:24] <gonzo_> snap
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[15:25] <Ian_> A dummy counterbalance might be useful, or a similar very small 868.5MHz antenna to keep things symetrical.
[15:26] <Ian_> weight wise.
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[15:27] <AndyEsser> current plan
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[15:28] <Ian_> I wouldn't consider mounting the 2/70 on a boom as I believe that it would be too heavy for it's own good. Not that you have suggested that
[15:28] <AndyEsser> http://imgur.com/l0hPMdk
[15:28] <AndyEsser> although from the latest comments, not have the X50 on the horizontal boom
[15:29] <Ian_> There would be a lot of turning moment to make the X50 want to slip out of the vertical around the pole under the effects of vibration/wind
[15:29] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03TT7S - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=TT7S
[15:30] <AndyEsser> Ian_: sure, I'll stick it right at the top on the main vertical
[15:30] <AndyEsser> rather than on the horizontal as shown
[15:30] <AndyEsser> cheers
[15:30] <AndyEsser> but the rest seems ok?
[15:30] <AndyEsser> wouldn't the Yagi's causing the same issue?
[15:30] <AndyEsser> or mount the Yagi's on the vertical as well?
[15:32] <Ian_> Tick. Sort of, I was getting to the Yagis . . . They would need to be mounted around their point of balance, but you have suggested that the house might be in the way. I take it that the yagis are 70cm and around 868.5MHz
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[15:33] <AndyEsser> well I trust the mount points built into the yagi's are in the correct place...
[15:33] <AndyEsser> one is 2m
[15:33] <AndyEsser> one is 70cm
[15:33] <AndyEsser> I do nothing around 868MHz
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[15:34] <Ian_> The mounting arrangements envisaged by the antenna designer are probably a large generalisation.
[15:34] <mfa298> AndyEsser: #ukhasnet is around 868MHz, just what you need for when you and/or matb get a plane node going
[15:35] <AndyEsser> mfa298: ha, at which point maybe I'll look at getting an antenna for 868
[15:35] <AndyEsser> and I guess also use it for Lora
[15:36] <mfa298> then again for #ukhasnet you just need to mount a repeater up there and feed up power (or add solar)
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[15:40] <AndyEsser> I'm hoping I can get this up and running within the next month or so
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[15:51] <gonzo_> with yagis, you could have the rotator mounted at the base of the pole, with some support bearings at the brackets. That allows tyou to use a lighter duty rotator and keep it out of sight a bit
[15:51] <gonzo_> should be able to keep the slide up system without much prob
[15:51] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: not putting rotators on for the moment
[15:52] <AndyEsser> may rethink it when I get around to them
[15:52] <AndyEsser> just going to point them roughly SE
[15:52] <Ian_> Ah, gable end mounted, that does explain the lack of room for guys. Things to do, I'll be back later with a drawing or two for your consideration. How much distance from the gable end to the fence?
[15:52] <Ian_> Horizontal distance
[15:53] <gonzo_> put the mast on bearings and you could just attach a light extension pole, hanging down and turn by hand
[15:53] <AndyEsser> Ian_: about 2-3ft
[15:53] <SIbot13> In real units: 3 ft = 0.91 m
[15:53] <AndyEsser> but there's no building the other side of the fence
[15:54] <AndyEsser> but I don't have access to the other side to put guys or anything
[15:55] <gonzo_> I recon you should be able to make thois look like TV/hifi antennas
[15:55] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: which is exactly my plan :)
[15:55] <AndyEsser> "permitted development"
[15:55] <gonzo_> I had an x50 type collin, on a pole and used some primer spray, it looked like just part of the pule
[15:56] <AndyEsser> yea, was basically thinking the X50 would just look like part of the pole, and the 434 mhz yagi would just look like a very large TV antenna
[15:56] <AndyEsser> pointing in the complete opposite direct
[15:56] <AndyEsser> direction*
[15:56] <gonzo_> not sure tv antennas are actually allowed. It's just that they are accepted as pretty much everyone has them
[15:57] <gonzo_> I doubt 90% of the population even realise that the need to point in any direction
[15:57] <fsphil> given the number I've seen pointing into the sky, yes
[15:57] <AndyEsser> RSGB website says "The antenna i sconsider permitted development, usually types similar to TV antennas and groun mount antennas up to 3m in height"
[15:58] <gonzo_> (put beraings on and it could point wherever. Anyone who did notice would think they were going daft)
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[16:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03F1TKE-12 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=F1TKE-12
[16:01] <gonzo_> would be interested to see where that is written. Only rules I've seen were for microwave antewnnas (so >3GHz), intended to limit dishes.
[16:01] <AndyEsser> gonzo_: just google "RSGB permitted development"
[16:02] <AndyEsser> http://rsgb.org/main/operating/planning-matters/
[16:02] <AndyEsser> it really irks me that so much of RSGB website/publications clearly are people who exist in the HF world
[16:02] <Ian_> Just had a look at my own gable end. Like yourself, basically, a path's width to my curtilage. 21 bricks on the wall = around 6ft height (sort that sibot) and from the eves it's 35 bricks, so 10ft, around 3m. How are you going to do this job, not off a ladder?
[16:02] <SIbot13> In real units: 6 ft = 1.83 m
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[16:03] <AndyEsser> why not off a ladder?
[16:04] <Ian_> The world is moving very HF of HF at a great rate of knots
[16:05] <fsphil> what?
[16:05] <AndyEsser> and with that, I'm off
[16:05] <AndyEsser> chat later gentleman
[16:05] <AndyEsser> thanks for the info/recommendations
[16:05] <Ian_> Why not off a ladder . . . I guess that gonzo could tell you. I don't have a great head for heights, for sure.
[16:06] <SpeedEvil> Use a quadcopter.
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[16:06] <Ian_> Laters Andy Esser
[16:10] <gonzo_> very HF a good direction to be going.
[16:11] <gonzo_> interesting that as the freqs that are commercially interesting are moving up, a gap is appearing at the bottom
[16:12] <gonzo_> in this country it seems to be below about 600MHZz
[16:13] <gonzo_> three was the spectrum freed by the digital tv, but so far there seems to be little interest in it
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[17:37] <AetherOli> I'm trying to pick up the radio transmission from my transmitter using a USB SDR and I'm getting so much background signal. Any advice?
[17:39] <AetherOli> Okay I turned off the receiver but I'm still seeing a waterfall in DFldigi, does that mean my audio settings are wrong?
[17:46] <SA6BSS-Mike> are you using virtual audio cable or stereo mix?
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[17:47] <AetherOli> SA6BSS-Mike: Virtual audio cable
[17:47] <SA6BSS-Mike> what freq are u on?
[17:48] <SA6BSS-Mike> my waterfall gets black when I´m not sending any audio to fldigi
[17:48] <AetherOli> 434,478,170
[17:48] <AetherOli> I thought it should do, but its not.... could be a setting in fldigi or something
[17:48] <SA6BSS-Mike> what sdr program?
[17:48] <AetherOli> sdr#
[17:49] <SA6BSS-Mike> and you set the audio out in # to correct vb channel?
[17:49] <AetherOli> ah that could be it. How do I do that haha?
[17:49] <SA6BSS-Mike> under the audio arrow in #
[17:50] <SA6BSS-Mike> it must be stopped for u to edit the out channel
[17:51] <AetherOli> Okay, I hadn't done that, but now I have
[17:51] <SA6BSS-Mike> fire it up
[17:52] <SA6BSS-Mike> progress?
[17:53] <AetherOli> Still getting a really noisy waterfall. Do you think that the waterfall still being there when the receiver is off is the cause?
[17:54] <SA6BSS-Mike> and u set the correct vac in dl-fldigi?
[17:55] <gonzo_> christ, I just somehow spent 20mins looking at bloody facetube. That's 20mins of my life I'll never get back
[17:56] <AetherOli> SA6BSS-Mike: I think it was because I had VAC set to the default device for sound output or something
[17:56] <AetherOli> I turned that off and now I've got two streams minus all the noise
[17:58] <richardeoin> craag: no, not this time
[17:59] <richardeoin> I've got some ideas for the next flight though, including getting the output power and antenna right
[18:01] <AetherOli> SA6BSS-Mike: Still can't decode the signal however :l
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[18:07] <craag> richardeoin: :)
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[19:02] <AetherOli> How can I remove errors from my decoded sentences? Getting almost all of it but still lots of incorrect characters
[19:14] <Upu> can you post a screen shot AetherOli ?
[19:16] <AetherOli> Upu: http://imgur.com/a/Hmuhs
[19:16] Nick change: nsh- -> nsh
[19:16] <AetherOli> You can also see what's going on from the Habhub parser logtail
[19:21] <Upu> screen shot of the SDR pls
[19:22] <Upu> whats the tracker ?
[19:22] <Upu> by any chance are you using software serial to read a GPS ?
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[19:30] <AetherOli> Upu: It's this one http://www.nooelec.com/store/sdr/sdr-receivers/nesdr-smart.html
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[19:31] <Upu> sorry I meant the SDR window and the actual transmitter/tracker
[19:32] <AetherOli> Oh right
[19:32] <AetherOli> The transmitter is a Radiometrix MTX2 434Mhz on a habduino
[19:33] <Upu> Ok in that case something is borked on the reciever I suspect
[19:33] <Upu> lets see the SDR pls
[19:33] <AetherOli> Uploading it
[19:34] <AetherOli> http://imgur.com/a/Hmuhs
[19:34] <Upu> set bandwidth to 3000
[19:34] <Upu> zoom right out pls
[19:35] <AetherOli> Added to same link as above
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[19:36] <Upu> whats the output on the SDR ?
[19:37] <AetherOli> Upu: Sorry what do you mean by that?
[19:37] <Upu> sorry the audio output
[19:37] <Upu> stop SDR
[19:37] <Upu> Audio -> Output
[19:37] <Upu> whats it set too ?
[19:38] <AetherOli> It was set to Windows Direct Sound Virtual Audio but I moved it onto just Virtual Audio and the decoding seems better
[19:39] <Upu> ok
[19:39] <Upu> shouldn't be wobbly
[19:39] <AetherOli> Wait no, characters are weird again
[19:40] <AetherOli> I assume thats what happens when it wobbles
[19:40] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/Untitled-1.jpg
[19:40] <Upu> should look like that
[19:42] <AetherOli> I upped the upper signal level and it looks more like that now
[19:43] <AetherOli> still dodgy decoding though Upu
[19:44] <Upu> turn the output volume down on SDRSharp until the green diamond in dl-fldigi goes black, then turn it up a notch so it goes green again
[19:46] <AetherOli> That made the signal even more junky
[19:49] <AetherOli> Probably about the same to be honest Upu
[19:49] <Upu> At this point I'm looking at that SDR you have
[19:49] <Upu> do you have antennas on ?
[19:50] <AetherOli> Yes
[19:50] <Upu> take one off the SDR
[19:51] <AetherOli> Well it can only have one connected at a time but I took that off
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[19:53] <AetherOli> All just noise now
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[20:00] <AetherOli> Upu: Any ideas?
[20:04] <Upu> If you can try another SDR
[20:06] <AetherOli> Nope, purchased this one today
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[20:24] <mattbrejza> can you see what hte signal looks like with just a carrier?
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[20:40] <ddm9599> Hello! Does anyone present have any experience with long range comms?
[20:41] <fsphil> define long range
[20:41] <Reb-SM0ULC> ddm9599: no longer than 33000 km
[20:41] <Reb-SM0ULC> oops
[20:42] <Reb-SM0ULC> 20000 km at least
[20:42] <ddm9599> We are launching two high altitude balloons in a couple of months and would like to have comms for the duration of the flight
[20:42] <Reb-SM0ULC> flotaers?
[20:43] <ddm9599> we arent doing any sort of altitude control. just goes up, separates from the balloon, and comes back down
[20:43] <Reb-SM0ULC> ddm9599: in the meantime, get a couple of real irc-clients and hang around here :)
[20:43] <Reb-SM0ULC> ddm9599: ah
[20:43] <ddm9599> i dont do IRC much. what client would you recommend?
[20:43] <fsphil> that sort of flight probably won't travel too far
[20:43] <Reb-SM0ULC> OS?
[20:44] <Reb-SM0ULC> kvirc is ok i think
[20:44] <ddm9599> alright let me look into that
[20:45] <Reb-SM0ULC> ddm9599: some 430 mhz radio and rtty is probably an easy start
[20:45] <ddm9599> i was looking at that range
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[20:46] <ddm9599> the other guys want to do ~900MHz but i know that there are some GSM bands that operate in that range
[20:46] <ddm9599> so i definitely think 430 is the better option
[20:47] <mfa298> ddm9599: where in the world are you as that can influence the best way to do a radio link
[20:47] <ddm9599> New York State
[20:48] <ddm9599> but i have my technician license so i can legally operate 430MHz
[20:48] <mfa298> you might do better using APRS for basic telemetry (or do both)
[20:49] <ddm9599> Yeah we arent looking to send video streams or anything
[20:49] <ddm9599> mostly telemetry
[20:49] <ddm9599> will APRS allow for larger range because of the reduced bandwidth?
[20:49] <mfa298> In the UK we use the 434MHz ISM band as we can't use Amateur radio from airborne
[20:50] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03SP6ZWR - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SP6ZWR
[20:50] <mfa298> I think a fair number of the US baloons use aprs for positions as there's already a good receiving network
[20:51] <ddm9599> yeah that might be the way to go then
[20:51] <mfa298> although you might only manage a position every few minutes
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[20:51] <Reb-SM0ULC> ddm9599: main and reserve-tracker is good :)
[20:52] <mfa298> I think a few people went for a hybrid approach, aprs and somethign like rtty, arps gives you a position every few minutes with a good receive network, rtty gives you more frequent updates and possibly more sensor data but you might be the only one receiving
[20:53] <mfa298> although talk to local HAM clubs and see if you can persaude others to help out
[20:53] <ddm9599> i do like the redundancy of the hybrid system
[20:55] <Reb-SM0ULC> ddm9599: plan to build self or buy stufF?
[20:55] <ecshab> Good evening habbers. My name is Steve. I'm a teacher in North London, and my engineering club is planning on launching a balloon this weekend. We're using a pi-in-the-sky tracker and launching from Cambridge.
[20:56] <ecshab> Instructions said to introduce myself here, and so I have. Hello!
[20:56] <ddm9599> Hello ecshab
[20:56] <mfa298> ecshab: hopefully a silly question, but have you made contact with the owners of the site you plan to use.
[20:57] <ddm9599> We are building most. An alumni built us a custom sensor board for local data acquisition. Comms will be purchased though
[20:57] <ecshab> launching from ditton common.
[20:57] <ecshab> I don't know who owns it
[20:58] <mfa298> ecshab: have you requested permission from CAA as well then and got your payload on the map.
[20:58] <ecshab> yeah CAA have approved it all with a few conditions
[20:58] <ecshab> I've submitted a payload document
[20:58] <mfa298> if it's open land you might be ok, although normally you should have land owner permission
[20:59] <ecshab> pretty sure it's open land. It's out of the way anyway.
[20:59] <mfa298> it mgiht be worth a post to the mailing list with details.
[20:59] <mfa298> you'll also need a flightdoc (if you havn't already) and ask for it to be approved in #habhub
[21:00] <Reb-SM0ULC> ddm9599: the pi-in-the-sky tracker is a good choice
[21:00] <ecshab> ok
[21:00] <ecshab> flight and payload doc are online, and I will ask for it to be approved
[21:02] <Reb-SM0ULC> ddm9599: LoRa-stuff is also worth looking into
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[21:03] <ddm9599> we actually have some 915MHz LoRas and they work pretty well
[21:03] <ecshab> yeah the lora could be the next step
[21:03] <ddm9599> but I dont know if thats going to be enough for us. Even with high gain antennas, i think the power is only 100mW max
[21:04] <mfa298> ddm9599: we've had people run lora here on 868mhz with similar (or possibly lower) power limits
[21:04] <mfa298> might be worth a read of some of daveake's blog http://www.daveakerman.com/
[21:05] <ddm9599> how much range did they get out of it?
[21:05] <ddm9599> ill just read the link...thanks
[21:07] <mfa298> balloon to ground, with various stations receiving it and uploading to the habitat servers (in the same way we do for rtty with dl-fldigi)
[21:08] <mfa298> and some relatively high handwidths on lora (at least compared to rtty) allowing pictures to be sent back
[21:09] <ddm9599> according to this post, the LoRa has greater performance in both range and bandwith compared to rtty for similar powers
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[21:15] <Reb-SM0ULC> ddm9599: yes, better performance of that part, rtty etc is way simpler, you can do ot with "any" transmitter etc
[21:16] <Reb-SM0ULC> ddm9599: have not seen any docs on bw vs range
[21:16] <Reb-SM0ULC> don't know if dave has done seom tests
[21:17] <ddm9599> i think we are going to run an experiment of sorts
[21:18] <ddm9599> we have a lot of extra power on our hab, so im recommending we run aprs, 430MHz LoRa, and 900MHz LoRa all together
[21:18] <ddm9599> obviously we would offset so they arent all transmitting at the exact same time, but i think it would provide some great data on the nuances of each
[21:19] <Reb-SM0ULC> ddm9599: should be ok to transmit in parallell
[21:19] <Darkside> so here in aussie land we fly RTTY, LoRa, and Wenet simultaneously on 70cm
[21:20] <Darkside> but we space them apart in frequency, and in physical space so we dont have issues
[21:20] <ddm9599> which has proven to be the most reliable of those?
[21:20] <Darkside> LoRa, definitely, but its kind of an unfair comparison
[21:20] <Darkside> RTTY has no FEC
[21:20] <Darkside> so one lost bit = packet error
[21:20] <Darkside> however, anyone can receive it
[21:21] <mfa298> ddm9599: you might wnt to check lora against your license terms, as it's not an open system it might fall foul of the radio license
[21:21] <Darkside> we get a lot of amateur radio operators tuning in to track the balloon, and we like to have something going which they can listen to and decode
[21:22] <ddm9599> i have my technician license. that should cover the bands and powers i need
[21:22] <Darkside> anyway, i generally use the LoRa payload for 'primary' tracking in my chase cae
[21:22] <Darkside> and its proven to be very reliable
[21:22] <ddm9599> what frequency?
[21:22] <ddm9599> 900?
[21:22] <Darkside> 70cm
[21:22] <Darkside> 25mW tx power
[21:23] <Darkside> can wasily decode it over hundreds of km (line of sight of course)
[21:23] <ddm9599> wow......maybe im not so worried about my 100mW modules anymore
[21:23] <Darkside> yeah
[21:23] <ddm9599> what antenna do you use for your ground station?
[21:23] <Darkside> on my car its just a 1/4 wave monopole on a magbase
[21:24] <Darkside> remember we're running the lora modules at pretty much their slowest settings
[21:24] <Darkside> the aim for that payload is *not* high speeds
[21:24] <ddm9599> magbase?
[21:24] <Darkside> its high reliability
[21:24] <Darkside> magbase = magnetic mount
[21:24] <ddm9599> gotcha
[21:25] <mfa298> ddm9599: it's more that lora is a closed system so might fall foul of being something that any other operator can easily decode, it's also a wider bandwidth than some other thigns. (In the UK we use it as an ISM device not a HAM device)
[21:25] <Darkside> mfa298: we get away with it here
[21:25] <Darkside> mfa298: same argument coudl be levied at dstar/DMR/fusion, etc
[21:26] <Darkside> and while i dont support those modes, they seem to be accepted
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[21:26] <mfa298> ddm9599: basicly to decode lora you have to have a lora module configured with the right settings
[21:26] <Darkside> it might matter more in a country with more specrum occupancy , around here theres bugger all going on
[21:26] <ddm9599> right. in the code that runs on them, there is a key that has to match with both tx and rx
[21:26] <mfa298> Darkside: There's always the what's allowed and what you can get away with :p
[21:27] <mfa298> chances are you can get away with it even if it's not strictly allowed, just something to be aware of
[21:27] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03ECSHAB - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=ECSHAB
[21:27] <Darkside> ddm9599: if you want to play nicely, then open source the code that you can use to receive the position and push it to habitat
[21:27] <Darkside> of course any uplink stuff you'd want to keep a bit quiet probably
[21:27] <ddm9599> what is habitat?
[21:28] <Darkside> uh
[21:28] <ddm9599> is that the shared tracking system?
[21:28] <Darkside> the backend database to the tracker
[21:28] <Darkside> yes
[21:28] <Reb-SM0ULC> http://habitat.habhub.org/
[21:28] <Darkside> dl-fldigi (and other things) push data into it to be plotted on the map
[21:28] <mfa298> habitat is what drives tracker.habhub.org
[21:28] <SA6BSS-Mike> habhub.org/
[21:28] <Reb-SM0ULC> SA6BSS-Mike: gokvällen
[21:28] <SA6BSS-Mike> tjena
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[21:30] <ddm9599> it doesnt look like there is much activity in the United States....would it even be worth using?
[21:30] <Darkside> uhm
[21:30] <Darkside> yes
[21:31] <Darkside> live balloon path predictions during flight are INCREDIBLY useful
[21:31] <mfa298> for lora / rtty it might make sense to use it as there's already software in place that others can use
[21:31] <Darkside> it allows you to get ahead of the balloon, and get to the landing area before the balloon gets there
[21:31] <ddm9599> oh i didnt know it did predictions too. That is useful.
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[21:31] <mfa298> dl-fldigi for rtty (fldigi with some additions) and some lora gateway code
[21:32] <Darkside> pushing data into habitat isnt that difficult really
[21:32] <Darkside> https://github.com/darksidelemm/sondemonitorUtils/blob/master/sonde_to_habitat.py#L75
[21:32] <Darkside> you just need to construct a 'sentence' of appropriate format, and upload it into the database
[21:32] <mfa298> rtty/lora usually send strings like https://ukhas.org.uk/communication:protocol to put into habitat
[21:32] <Darkside> yeah
[21:33] <mfa298> the format is customisable
[21:33] <Darkside> mfa298: ok good, you have this covered, i need to get to work :P
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[21:33] <ddm9599> alright we will definitely be utilizing habitat then
[21:34] <ddm9599> thank you for the information guys
[21:34] <mfa298> the habitat tracker also imports balloons from aprs if you're using that
[21:35] <mfa298> for the lora tracker most people in the UK use http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=1719
[21:35] <Darkside> and i went the other way and wrote my own: https://github.com/projecthorus/HorusGroundStation
[21:35] <Darkside> :P
[21:36] <Darkside> because ascii sentences are dumb
[21:36] <Darkside> :P
[21:36] <mfa298> especially on lora :)
[21:36] <Darkside> yeah
[21:37] <mfa298> human readable on rtty makes some sense as it can then use human correction
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[22:03] <fsphil> meh, I don't trust humans :)
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[22:08] <mfa298> certainly don't trust them to write code :p
[22:25] <gonzo_> the main benifit is, you feel more involved
[22:25] <gonzo_> benefit
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[23:17] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03M10WX-11 after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=M10WX-11
[23:43] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RSIST after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RSIST
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[00:00] --- Tue Mar 14 2017