highaltitude.log.20170226

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[01:24] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VE2WMG-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VE2WMG-11
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[02:14] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VE2CSN-11 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VE2CSN-11
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[02:53] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03HORUSLORA1 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HORUSLORA1
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[03:33] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03VK5QI-9_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=VK5QI-9_chase
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[05:53] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03hyundai_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=hyundai_chase
[06:15] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03kp456_chase - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=kp456_chase
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[07:16] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03SV3CIX-11 after 0312 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=SV3CIX-11
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[08:00] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03S-22 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=S-22
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[10:58] <PE2BZ> !flights
[10:58] <SpacenearUS> 03PE2BZ: Current flights: 03UBSEDS18 434.612.5 CONTESTIA 16/1000 10(64a5), 03UBSEDS21 434.610 CONTESTIA 16/1000 10(2e88)
[11:02] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03HIRFW-6 after 0313 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=HIRFW-6
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[11:42] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03RSIST after 0310 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=RSIST
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[13:54] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03K6RPT-11 after 0314 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=K6RPT-11
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[15:11] <Laurenceb> grrr
[15:11] <Laurenceb> finally get GoPro to behave and rocket test fails again :(
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[16:02] <SpacenearUS> New position from 03KK6PNN-5 after 0317 hours silence - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=KK6PNN-5
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[16:20] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03hadie - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=hadie
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[17:29] Nick change: iNeo -> PE0SAT
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[17:55] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03WESTG - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=WESTG
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[18:26] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03UBSEDS23 - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS23
[18:46] Nick change: GyroW_ -> Gyrow
[18:46] Nick change: Gyrow -> GyroW
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[20:23] <SpacenearUS> New vehicle on the map: 03UBSEDS23G - 12https://tracker.habhub.org/#!qm=All&q=UBSEDS23G
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[22:28] <Laurenceb> wonder what the G is
[22:31] quick_question_2 (1fcd6a24@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.205.106.36) joined #highaltitude.
[22:32] <quick_question_2> I had a couple of questions about the habduino shield, I wondered if anyone might be able to advise me?
[22:34] <quick_question_2> I understand that the habduino shield will, if an APRS module is not fitted automatically transnit via 434Mhz instead. I hoped to understand "how the arduino knows" that an APRS module is not fitted.
[22:35] <daveake> It doesn't
[22:36] <quick_question_2> From reading through the habduino arduino program code I find that the APRS seems to only have two pins associated with it, those labelled "HX1_ENABLE" and "HX1_TXD". But these seem only ever to be onfigured as outputs not as inputs or input_pullups, how then does the arduino sense that an APRS module is not connected to tit?
[22:36] <daveake> It doesn't
[22:36] <quick_question_2> Oh, sorry just saw your reply, daveake.
[22:37] <quick_question_2> If it doesn't know then am I right in thinking it is constantly trying to transmit both 434MHz and APRS, but if the APRS module isn't connected then the signals saying "transmit this by APRS" just do nothing?
[22:38] <daveake> Probably. Either that or you're meant to disable it in the source (not that anything would go wrong if it's enabled but talking to missing hardware)
[22:40] <quick_question_2> As part of my flight, I've spoken to you once on here before about it actually, we're using a modified habduino shield, we've changed some of the pins around to free some others up. We had to remove the HX1_ENABLE and HX1_TXD from going to digitals 3 and 6 and send them to analogs 2 and 3 instead. Is there any chance that because the program will be trying to send APRS from pns that have nothing connected to them that
[22:41] <quick_question_2> ...it thinks it is aloready transmitting APRS?
[22:42] <quick_question_2> To disable APRS in source what would one do? Can you point to the line in the code at https://github.com/HABduino/HABduino/blob/master/Software/habduino_v4/habduino_v4.ino ?
[22:44] <daveake> You can't do this the way you're trying to
[22:44] <quick_question_2> Can't do what? I'm not sure which thing you're referring to
[22:44] <daveake> The code assumes HX1_ENABLE is on PORTD, and you've broken that
[22:45] <quick_question_2> What is PORTD?
[22:45] <daveake> Just remove all the APRS code
[22:45] <daveake> On the Arduino, it's a collection of 8 digital I/O pins
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[22:47] <quick_question_2> If I take out all the APRS code will the habduino no longer be trying to use ports 3 or 6 at all? I just thought that changing lines 97 and 98 from 3 and 6 to A2 and A3 would be enough to disable HX1 and leave the pins 3 and 6 totally unused
[22:48] <daveake> I've already explained that changing those lines is not enough, because of the PORTD thing
[22:49] <quick_question_2> So, if I change those lines I've got to deal with the PORTD thing too, how is that done, which other lines need altering, do I have to delete a load of APRS re;ated functions or something?
[22:49] <Ian_> Do you really want Dave to write your code?
[22:49] <daveake> Just remove the APRS code. All of it. End of.
[22:50] <daveake> As you're modifying code you really need to be in the position of understanding what the existing code is doing.
[22:52] <quick_question_2> I'm realy sorry to have to ask this, but how do I tell which is APRS code and which is common to both APRS and 434Mhz. I know it's a lot to ask but if you could give line numbers of functions to delete, or names of functions to delete, I could get rid of them and then edit any lines that tried to call those functions. I'm afraid I'm not an expert on how the habduino code works.
[22:53] <daveake> Dunno; not my code
[22:54] <quick_question_2> How would I go about finding out which bits are purely for APRS and what I can remove without risking affecting the 434mhz transmission too?
[22:54] <daveake> read the code
[22:55] <daveake> look for where those 2 #defines get used
[22:55] <daveake> standard stuff
[22:55] <daveake> The radio is a HX1 so any function hx1_something is a fair bet
[22:56] <quick_question_2> You mean look which lines "HX1_ENABLE" and "HX1_TXD" are mentioned on, yes I see that and can also see PORTD and something called BV mentioned on those lines
[22:57] <daveake> PORTD may be used for other purposes; as I said it's a collection of 8 i/o pins
[22:57] <quick_question_2> and PORTD is only mentioned on two lines, lines which have HX1 mentioned on them
[22:58] <quick_question_2> If PORTD is a collection how does the code specify which pins in the collecton need things doing to them at those points?
[22:59] <daveake> PORTD is 8 bits, and each pin is associated with 1 of those bit
[23:01] <quick_question_2> ok, i get the idea, I think
[23:02] <quick_question_2> And the habduino code says within it that the liens with portd on them, 865 and 950, are an efficient way to turn hx1_enable on and off
[23:02] <quick_question_2> Will getting rid of those two lnes be enough to stop pins 3 and 6 being used for anything?
[23:03] <daveake> Probably
[23:03] <quick_question_2> Or editing those lines to become digitalWrite(HX1_ENABLE, HIGH) and Low?
[23:03] <daveake> You don't need APRS so there's no point having that line
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[23:04] <quick_question_2> I take it that whatever I do, if it works on the ground it'll work in flight too, as in these sort of things don't get altered by being at altitude?
[23:05] <quick_question_2> I know GPS mode alters at height, and some LEDS get turned off, but things like whether transmission is happeneing will be unaltered?
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[23:06] <quick_question_2> Thanks for your advice, I'll give it a go and see if it works.
[23:06] <chris_99> Hey, i'm just wondering, does anyone know of any rockets that use a 'control moment gyroscope' rather that steerable fins or gimbaled thruster?
[23:08] <quick_question_2> While I'm at it are there any other unusual ways which are used to turn pins on and off, independent of the pin definitions in lines 84 to 101? I'm not asking you to tell me exactly how to edit the code, just to say whether, apart from using PORT, there are any other ways that pins can have states set while circumventing the definitions of lines 84 to 101? Any keyword phrases I should be trying to find?
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[23:10] <Ian_> quick_question_2 For goodness sake, don't take up brain surgery. :)
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[23:15] <daveake> There are various I/O functions including pinmode and others. None need to use the #define definitions. e.g. pinmode(3,OUTPUT) is the same as #define MYPIN and then pinmode(MYPIN, OUTPUT). This is all Arduino 101
[23:16] <daveake> I *doubt* there's anything else other than what you mentioned, but you're the one who needs to go checking not me
[23:19] <quick_question_2> I knew that and had checked for any pinmode(3,OUTPUT) like stuff, I just never knew about the PORTD things before and other forms of directly addressing the pins.
[23:19] <daveake> ^^ #define MYPIN 3
[23:19] <daveake> Nothing else that I know of
[23:19] <quick_question_2> Thanks for alerting me to this.
[23:20] <quick_question_2> By the way, are functons with ax25 in the name all APRS stuff too?
[23:27] <quick_question_2> Also, I can see a load of lines with #ifdef APRS and #ifndef APRS, surely ths means that there is a line somewhere which, before the code gets compiled, checks if APRS has already been defined as present or not and chooses which code to compile accordingly. Can I change that place where APRS gets defined so that all those #ifdef parts result in the APRS parts not getting compiled?
[23:29] <mfa298> quick_question_2: I don't know the habduino code, however if you're going to be changing it you need to spend some time dedicated to working out how the code works, and how arduino / avr code works.
[23:30] <mfa298> personally if I was going to make changes to the habduino code I'd probably dedicate a day to reading through it and working out what's happening - probably with the code printed out so I can write all over it
[23:32] <quick_question_2> I can see that there are pieces which won't compile if APRS is false, and will compile if it is true, but I'm not sure where in the code APRS is being set to be true or false
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[23:34] <aadamson> quick_question_2, it really can only be in one of three places, either the code module your looking at, or the files that get included, or defined as a -D on the command line when the code is built
[23:35] <aadamson> if you are looking at the code via the github interface, there is a search function, it will probably be your friend if you use it :)
[23:35] <quick_question_2> Thanks for the tip aadamson
[23:35] <aadamson> if not, and on linux then it's time for grep, on windows... well, good luck there :)
[23:36] <daveake> lots of greps for windows
[23:36] <aadamson> yeah, just not native greps
[23:36] <daveake> define "native" :)
[23:36] <aadamson> hehe
[23:37] <aadamson> So daveake you'll appreciate this one... a friend is all over the top about LoRa, but not how you'd think
[23:37] <quick_question_2> and I wouldn't be finding, searching or grep ing for "APRS"?
[23:37] <daveake> oh ?
[23:37] <aadamson> he takes the radio, sends a really long pre-amble, which chirps reverse of the data way, and then he uses it to bounce of of things for a radar
[23:37] <daveake> heh
[23:38] <aadamson> it's a long story, and he's been doing it with various things for a long time, but he love this one, just wishes it was HF
[23:38] <aadamson> he's even thinking of making a down converter :)
[23:38] <quick_question_2> It doesn't seem to occur anywhere in the code except for in those ifdef lines, so I guess it must come from one of the other two places
[23:40] <aadamson> quick, here's a goofy trick to figure out if stuff is defined in or not. On purpose put a code error (extra char, whatever) in the block of code you are curious if is being built with #ifdefs
[23:40] <quick_question_2> I can search through the libraries for it, but I'm not sure what you mean about it being in the command line as a possibility, I've used command lines for things but not arduino, I just compile it through the standard IDE, where would I find the command line that I would have to check, I assume it would be behind the scenes of the IDE somewhere?
[23:40] <aadamson> then build the code if the build breaks it is being built if it doesn't is isn't
[23:40] <aadamson> Personally I use an environment that shows me on screw what is being built and not with highlights
[23:40] <aadamson> but I've used the above before when I just wanted to make sure... :)
[23:41] <aadamson> There is a command line to the build for arduino... BUT, the -D won't be there so you can ignore that one, at least for user code defines
[23:41] <quick_question_2> that sounds a useful trick, I'd try to have a dummy line reading the value of APRS as a variable or something? if it can compile I'll know APRS is defined in code somewhere
[23:42] <aadamson> I don't create any code, I just type a character, it will break (unless you just happen to pick a char that is *valid*... lol
[23:43] <mfa298> there's #error and #warning preprocessor directives that might help with that, I'm not sure when they appeard in gcc so might not work in the arduino gui if it's using really old compilers
[23:44] <quick_question_2> Just tried adding a junk word into an ifdef part of the code, compiling failed, APRS is definitely defined as true in this code, now I've got to word out where so I can make it false.
[23:46] <quick_question_2> APRS definitely isn't defined as a variable though, if I try inserting a line that takes the value of APRS and sets another variable to it then compiling fails saying that APRS isn't defined in the scope
[23:49] <quick_question_2> I've tried putting junk characters into #ifdef APRS parts of the code and into #ifndef APRS pieces of the code, compiling fails either way, so APRS is both defined and not defined?
[23:50] <daveake> You're supposed to define it IF you want APRS. This is in the documentation. https://github.com/HABduino/HABduino/blob/master/Documentation/HABDUINO-Instructions-V1.1-070715.pdf
[23:50] <aadamson> and it *WONT* be defined as a variable... it will be a #define APRS which is grossly different from a variable in the strict sense
[23:51] <daveake> Indeed
[23:52] <quick_question_2> Thanks daveake, in that case it seems all those #ifdef APRS parts won't affect me
[23:52] <daveake> Default line is //#define APRS // Uncomment to use APRS.
[23:54] <quick_question_2> I should have checked for it in those instructions before asking here, it's just when I read them I'd only bothered with the bits applicable to this flight so hadn't thought to look at stuff about what to do if you want APRS
[23:55] <aadamson> quick_question_2, ok, now *smack* yourself in the head... you violated the #1 rule RTFM!
[23:56] <quick_question_2> Not sure what RTFM stands for but yes, I've been seriously stupid
[23:56] <aadamson> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTFM :)... lol
[23:57] <quick_question_2> Can I just ask two other things about the habduino before I disconnect from this chat
[23:59] <quick_question_2> 1.Temperature sensors, if one runs without those I assume there is no effect except that there wouldn't be a temperature reading in the radio transmissions, there aren't any parts of the code that try to make decisions or turn things on in response to the termperature are there? I couldn't see any indication that there were but hoped to check.
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[23:59] <daveake> Dunno. May well spend some time looking for one
[00:00] --- Mon Feb 27 2017